1.5-1.8ct RB

[iheartbora]

Hi PSers!

I'm trying to find a RB that is around 1.5-1.8 ct, H color, and SI1. Given my limited budget of ~$12K, I'm also actively looking at the preloved market as well, hoping to find the biggest stone possible without sacrificing quality.

I was originally aiming for triple excellent but wondering how high of a risk I am taking on quality if it is not triple X? I was looking at ElleElle's stone and noticed that it has VG/VG/G grading.... http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-...liant-cut-diamond-gia-h-si1.html#.U50fC-Lijv0. What other key factors indicates whether this is a great quality stone or not? I would prefer a stone that has awesome brilliance, fire and scintillation with tons of color flashes, and am willing to go a little smaller in size or even clarity.

Is it better to go for tripleX and smaller size? Can anyone comment on ElleElle's stone?

Thank you!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think ElleElle's diamond is worth considering. It is pretty and gets you more size for the money than if you go with an ideal cut stone. But I'd have to have an idealscope image on it to see if it has leakage and how much.

 

[proto]

you want EX in cut.

You want VG+ in polish. It makes no difference between VG and EX in polish. Similar to how a VVS1 and IF are both eyeclean.

you want VG+ in symmetry. I am assuming you dont need super ideal HA.

 

[Lorelei]

I think ElleElle's diamond is worth considering. It is pretty and gets you more size for the money than if you go with an ideal cut stone. But I'd have to have an idealscope image on it to see if it has leakage and how much.

Hi Bora,

I feel pretty much the same as DS, if you could get an IS image that would be really helpful, not sure if one would be available for this diamond though. I am just estimating from the proportions of this diamond, it's might be a brilliant stone and the light flashes could be somewhat sharper that those of a more superideal cut stone, but it depends on what you are looking for. Ask the vendor to describe the optics for you to get a better idea. Do you want the diamond for a ring?

 

[iheartbora]

I think ElleElle's diamond is worth considering. It is pretty and gets you more size for the money than if you go with an ideal cut stone. But I'd have to have an idealscope image on it to see if it has leakage and how much.

Hi Bora,

I feel pretty much the same as DS, if you could get an IS image that would be really helpful, not sure if one would be available for this diamond though. I am just estimating from the proportions of this diamond, it's might be a brilliant stone and the light flashes could be somewhat sharper that those of a more superideal cut stone, but it depends on what you are looking for. Ask the vendor to describe the optics for you to get a better idea. Do you want the diamond for a ring?

Yup definitely want the diamond for a ring. Comparing to BGD's AGS000 Blue, vendor said there is no visual performance difference when face up to the naked eye. I've asked for a quote to see what it would cost to get IS images, guessing it will be around $100 plus shipping and full appraisal would cost more... I am a little surprised that I have to get images done myself with a purchase of this size! How do other people decide to pull their trigger without seeing the stone themselves?

I'm not sure how to describe what I'm looking for in professional terms, but in laymen terms, I would say a stone with lots of light flashes (sparkle factor) kicking back a lot of brilliance in all lighting conditions.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Although not the exact color spec you were looking for, this might be a good option, considering that it's an August Vintage Round and in your budget!

1.7ct, N, VVS2
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12311/

 

[iheartbora]

So there are the images. They don't look nearly as good as the ideal images in the PS world, but based on David Altas's appraisal, he said there is no significant leakage...(though it doesn't look that way in the photo?) He also said the symmetry is very close to VG, and overall the girdle is not thin enough to be concerned since the stone is mostly at 33 degrees and it's more of a risk if it is less than 30. Also confirmed that the stone is eye-clean. He said he was surprised at how good the stone looked and he thought it performed extremely well. Grace also said optically, she sees no difference between this stone and a BGD H&A with her naked eye. I'm still hesitant but will only know if I see it in person..?

 

[SirGuy]

Grace may be honest if she says she doesn't see a difference without magnification. It's not an ideally symmetrical "hearts and arrows" sort of stone, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's an awful performer.

Everything's a compromise. If size is higher up on your priorities then it's not unreasonable to go down in other categories to stay within your budget.

Regarding wanting the "sparkle factor," well, we all want that! Sparkle (also referred to as brilliance, or the stone's brightness and contrast with its dispersion, or fire) comes from superb cut, few light performance-affecting inclusions, and low color. Many would suggest to get those locked in first and then go as big as your budget allows while maintaining the first three.

That stone's IS and ASET aren't fantastic, but they're not horrible either. Ideally one would prefer a better cut, but again, if this is a good deal it's worth further consideration.

 

[Gypsy]

I believe in order to get a clean picture of what your options are, let's see what else you can get, safely, in budget and see if it's worth it for you to go with the pre-loved stone or if another stone is a better fit for you.


Here's what I'd buy: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5036411-1.70-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx Numbers are good. Idealscope is good. Color is I with Strong Blue to help it (ask if the stone is overblue or not) look whiter and is a VS1 to boot. Plus it's under budget.

And it's under budget. And has an upgrade policy. It's only one color grade less than you wanted. And it has a return policy. Personally, I'd get this one and see if in person before you decide on a second hand stone with no upgrade policy.


Here are some other choices:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.61-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-282814 I color. Vs2 Fantastic numbers.

And this one: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.61-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-244314 Lovely and likely to be eyeclean.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4729551-1.67-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4729551&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com I VS1 Great HCA. And B2C can get you an idealscope.



These all come with Trade in Policies.

 

[Lorelei]

So there are the images. They don't look nearly as good as the ideal images in the PS world, but based on David Altas's appraisal, he said there is no significant leakage...(though it doesn't look that way in the photo?) He also said the symmetry is very close to VG, and overall the girdle is not thin enough to be concerned since the stone is mostly at 33 degrees and it's more of a risk if it is less than 30. Also confirmed that the stone is eye-clean. He said he was surprised at how good the stone looked and he thought it performed extremely well. Grace also said optically, she sees no difference between this stone and a BGD H&A with her naked eye. I'm still hesitant but will only know if I see it in person..?

We are regularly seeing superb images of some of the best cut diamonds in the world here, this diamond is certainly a ' fine make' of cut and could be an excellent choice for the budget. Yes, it's not cut to the strict precision of the h&a we often see here, but so few diamonds are, it depends on what you want- the most size with exceptionally good looks and performance or smaller and the best optical performance you can find, it's a trade off. Plus you have Dave's opinion on this diamond, that's worth a huge amount! Or you can consider The Stripy Diamond Fiend's and Gypsy's selections which have various benefits packages, lots to think about!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Great find by Gypsy! This is my choice! Great price, too!

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5036411-1.70-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx

The second hand stone is probably better than most diamonds out there. But I wouldn't consider it after having PS knowledge.

 

[iheartbora]

Great find by Gypsy! This is my choice! Great price, too!

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5036411-1.70-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx

The second hand stone is probably better than most diamonds out there. But I wouldn't consider it after having PS knowledge.

So I inquired about this stone and B2C said it's not a good option! "As per gemologist comments, it is brown & to the naked eyes it seems to be slight brown. Due to the strong blue fluorescence looks slight blue to the naked eyes which affects the diamond which is not a good option to go for."

They recommended this one instead...
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5074289-1.71-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

 

[Gypsy]

I don't like the angles or the IS on that one. Leakage.


Ask about this one: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4729551-1.67-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4729551&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Great find by Gypsy! This is my choice! Great price, too!

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5036411-1.70-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx

The second hand stone is probably better than most diamonds out there. But I wouldn't consider it after having PS knowledge.

So I inquired about this stone and B2C said it's not a good option! "As per gemologist comments, it is brown & to the naked eyes it seems to be slight brown. Due to the strong blue fluorescence looks slight blue to the naked eyes which affects the diamond which is not a good option to go for."

They recommended this one instead...
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5074289-1.71-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

Good grief. That kind of shows me that they don't even know what they are talking about. Stones with fluorescence don't appear blue unless you are shining UV light on them. As far as the brown tint goes, I kind of like it more than yellow. What the heck are they listing it for on their site with a photo if it is too bad to sell???

I certainly don't like the images of their suggested stone. 36 ca, 41 pa, and 62.9% depth. Unreal.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I don't like the angles or the IS on that one. Leakage.


Ask about this one: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4729551-1.67-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4729551&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Yikes, Gypsy....32.5 ca and 61 table and no photo, either?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

How about a better cut but a little smaller?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12373/

 

[Gypsy]

I don't like the angles or the IS on that one. Leakage.


Ask about this one: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4729551-1.67-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4729551&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Yikes, Gypsy....32.5 ca and 61 table and no photo, either?

I didn't say it was perfect. But the HCA gave it a pass. And it's a 60/60 type so the low crown is not uncommon and the 41.2 pavillion COULD be okay (it's border line) if it idealscopes out.

I WOULD NOT buy it without a GOOD idealscope image though.

But it's worth a shot? No?


Here are the other two I really liked, and JA can get an idealscope of them.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.61-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-282814 I color. Vs2 Fantastic numbers.

And this one: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.61-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-244314 Lovely and likely to be eyeclean.

 

[Gypsy]

How about a better cut but a little smaller?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12373/

That's a lovely stone.

 

[lioness]

Great find by Gypsy! This is my choice! Great price, too!

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5036411-1.70-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx

The second hand stone is probably better than most diamonds out there. But I wouldn't consider it after having PS knowledge.

So I inquired about this stone and B2C said it's not a good option! "As per gemologist comments, it is brown & to the naked eyes it seems to be slight brown. Due to the strong blue fluorescence looks slight blue to the naked eyes which affects the diamond which is not a good option to go for."

They recommended this one instead...
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5074289-1.71-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

What what what?? Is it brown or is it blue?? Steer clear of the vendor...

 

[iheartbora]

Great find by Gypsy! This is my choice! Great price, too!

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5036411-1.70-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx

The second hand stone is probably better than most diamonds out there. But I wouldn't consider it after having PS knowledge.

So I inquired about this stone and B2C said it's not a good option! "As per gemologist comments, it is brown & to the naked eyes it seems to be slight brown. Due to the strong blue fluorescence looks slight blue to the naked eyes which affects the diamond which is not a good option to go for."

They recommended this one instead...
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5074289-1.71-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

Good grief. That kind of shows me that they don't even know what they are talking about. Stones with fluorescence don't appear blue unless you are shining UV light on them. As far as the brown tint goes, I kind of like it more than yellow. What the heck are they listing it for on their site with a photo if it is too bad to sell???

I certainly don't like the images of their suggested stone. 36 ca, 41 pa, and 62.9% depth. Unreal.

Yea I didn't really get a warm fuzzy feeling from B2C's reply...

I got Grace to send me the stone and have a few days to decide whether it's a keeper. Comparing to my BGD H&A studs, which are significantly smaller (0.6ct each, but same H color and SI1), optically, I don't see much of a difference... but it's really hard to compare because the size is so different! Anyone based in Seattle that want to help? Given the images and the cut grade, I do think ElleElle's stone will be a hard sell in the future if I ever want an upgrade (esp in PS world)..

 

[Gypsy]

There are PSers in the Seattle area with diamond experience. Actually Grace might be able to refer you to someone who I know she knows in the area. Ask Grace.

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Stones with fluorescence don't appear blue unless you are shining UV light on them. As far as the brown tint goes, I kind of like it more than yellow. What the heck are they listing it for on their site with a photo if it is too bad to sell???

These are all valid observations. I researched all of the above comments.

The broad answer relates to a post I made here:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-diamonds.203291/page-3#post-3703665#p3703665

B2C is working to increase the number of “actual” images in several locations. Right now the photo takers, both here and overseas, operate separately from those who create the gemological summary. This diamond was overseas and when the rep checked the gemologist’s notes he saw that is was “not recommended” due to tint. While many diamonds have a slight brown tint that’s not noted on the report, we screen rigorously for this (as I’m sure is the case with other reputable online vendors) and once it was 'not recommended' clearly - as you inferred - the time spent on these photos was a waste. As we move forward we have plans to streamline the process.

Regarding fluorescence your observation is correct. Those notes were made after a check with UV. As with tint our standards are very strict. Unlike tint, however, fluorescence under UV is not such a problem in-context as long as it’s not overblue - which this diamond was not. Our team leader feels the rep may have over-stated those implications – knowing the tint was a killer anyway – in order to find an approved recommendation.

As for the recommendations, one of the things I’m working toward with the team is a better understanding of PS cut-quality parameters. All of your comments help in that sense (and clearly in others).

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, if reselling is your only concern from purchasing ElleElle's stone, perhaps offer a lower price to protect you from that possibility in the future. I'm sure all serious offers would be considered and one has to be practical about the cut grade/images, etc. Especially, since there are other stones that are in a similar price range with other post purchase benefits you are considering.

 

[TC1987]

So I inquired about this stone and B2C said it's not a good option! "As per gemologist comments, it is brown & to the naked eyes it seems to be slight brown. Due to the strong blue fluorescence looks slight blue to the naked eyes which affects the diamond which is not a good option to go for."

Blue fluor only works in UV lighting. In UV light = looks blue. No UV light = The brown tint is observed because there is nothing to offset it.