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2.3 carat RBC dilemma - WF ACA with lower color/clarity OR "compromise" cut with JA?

Drizzle

Drizzle

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
79
Hi Pricescopers,

BF and I are in the market for a diamond for the engagement ring, yay! Exciting times :) I know traditionally it's supposed to be a surprise from the guy, but I've always been more into jewelry than him (plus I will admit I'm quite picky) so we decided it's best to look together...after all I will be the one wearing this for the rest of my life!

I already had a (dormant) account here so I am posting...here is the original "wish list":
  • 2.25-2.45 carat (I know I wanted 2+, but also want to save on the next price increase seen for stones that pass the 2.5 carat mark)
  • G color and up (BF's last name initial is F...thought it would be super cute/sentimental to get F color diamond, but due to budget reason I think it'll most likely be G)
  • Eye-clean (I thought I was open to SI1 but after seeing a ton of SI1 diamond reports, I felt like I couldn't find an SI1 that would feel "eye-clean" so me so now I'm leaning towards VS2+)
  • H&A Ideal cut with HCA score <2.0 ...after all it's all about the cut, right? personally I just LOVE the look of a RBC where you can see the defined arrow patterns from the naked eye when looking at it.
  • Budget: $25k
After doing searches online for loose diamond, I quickly realized that I need to either a) compromise on color/clarity if I wanted the WF ACA or the equivalent cut or b) compromise on the cut a little (which was UNTHINKABLE until I came across a thread here, which I will go into details later). Now before you guys slam me, I don't mean to dismiss the cut completely. I just mean do I REALLY need a WF ACA? I want my diamond to sparkle like crazy, and want to be able to see the symmetrical arrows when looking at the diamond with naked eyes, but can that be achieved through GIA triple Ex that's carefully weeded out? This idea was completely "unthinkable" to me until I found the thread below, where Gypsy's input really sunk in with me.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...nding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/

Given the budget, we can either get a) ACA in I/VS2/ or H/SI1 or b) G/VS1/excellent cut. I'm torn...I really don't know what is the best way to go about it.

I found a stone on James Allen that would be for option b) route:

2.3 carat GIA triple X with HCA score of 0.8
8.55 x 8.52 x 5.22
G/VS1
Depth: 61.1
Table: 56.0
Crown: 35.0
Pavilion: 46.6
Girdle: thin-medium
Fluorescence: medium blue
Price: $24,310 with JA advantage pricing

JA actual pic:
upload_2017-10-31_13-43-34.png

Ideal S cope:
3530614.jpg

What are you guys' thought on this topic in terms of going with route a) or b)? and what's your thought on this stone given the price? Is it worth placing the order and seeing it in person?

Thank you so much in advance for your help!
 

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A Whiteflash stone would be my choice. An H/I in a Super Ideal (ACA) will be very white and bright. They are lovely stones...I've seen many
in person.

2.25 is fairly large in my neck of the woods but should you ever want to upgrade to something bigger (we have someone upgrading
from a 1.5 to a 2.97 right now), with Whiteflash all you have to do is spend the same amount or more to upgrade. With JA you
have to spend double the original cost.
 
tyty333 said:
A Whiteflash stone would be my choice. An H/I in a Super Ideal (ACA) will be very white and bright. They are lovely stones...I've seen many
in person.

2.25 is fairly large in my neck of the woods but should you ever want to upgrade to something bigger (we have someone upgrading
from a 1.5 to a 2.97 right now), with Whiteflash all you have to do is spend the same amount or more to upgrade. With JA you
have to spend double the original cost.
Click to expand...

ooooh, ooooh, I think you mean me!

I found my own diamond the first time around and liked my results. I had a 1.7 carat G/eye-clean SI1 from a vendor (whom I no longer recommend) that ticked all the "cut" boxes. HCA <2, good ASET/Idealscope. It was a 60/60 stone and definitely had white flashes more than rainbow, but I didn't mind since the thing sparkled like crazy. The vendor completely ignored me when I tried to use his upgrade policy (still haven't heard from him), so I reached out to Whiteflash and had THE BEST customer service experience of my life. They gave me a very good offer for my ring and helped me find my new diamond. I don't have my 2.937 carat I/VS2 ACA yet, so TBD if the slight tint will bother me. I did, however, look at EVERY ACA on Pricescope and they are all amazing. The "I's" look white.

Needless to say, I vote GO WHITEFLASH. If you ever want to upgrade, you will be well taken care of. Never say never - I did NOT think I was upgrading until my wife sprung it on me (yay, wife!).

If you do it on your own, you'll find something great too if you invest the time/tools/community. I'd make sure to compare all the upgrade policies because you never know - you may want to go BIGGER when diamond shrinkage syndrome sets in (trust me.... it happens).

GOOD LUCK!
 
Drizzle said:
I just mean do I REALLY need a WF ACA?
Click to expand...

No, you don't. However, if I had came across PS before I was engaged and was involved with the process, I 100% would have gone with WF or HPD. Not only because of the quality of their cuts but their upgrade policies are some of the best out there.

FWIW - with your budget, I'd DEFINITELY be going with a super-ideal cut.

ETA: and no on the JA diamond posted above b/c of the IS image. I think you can do better in your price range.
 
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Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond and sharing your own experiences - I really appreciate it. You guys are killing me, lol I feel like this JA stone really checked all my boxes, and part of me kind of wanted the reassurance that there's nothing wrong with the stone and it'll be beautiful. How is the stats/spec look in addition to its idealscope image? would you guys say it's comparable to Whiteflash signature line?

I've literally been sleepless over this decision for the past few days I'm almost contemplating ordering BOTH diamonds (the JA one I posted in my OP) and an ACA from Whiteflash so I can physically see them and compare. Both vendors offer 30 days risk free trial, do you think it'll be too much?
 
The only thing about James Allen is the upgrade policy. Think long and hard before you pull that trigger.
 
HappyNewLife said:
I had a 1.7 carat G/eye-clean SI1 from a vendor (whom I no longer recommend) that ticked all the "cut" boxes. HCA <2, good ASET/Idealscope. It was a 60/60 stone and definitely had white flashes more than rainbow, but I didn't mind since the thing sparkled like crazy.
Click to expand...

Thank you HappyNewLife for sharing. Your wife is one lucky woman :) May I ask what is a 60/60 stone? and would the one I posted from JA be considered one?
 
Is that pavilion number correct? 46.6
 
whitewave said:
Just throwing this out there: 2.53 J VS2 wire price: 25, 376 will look white.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9542

(Not to take away from WF.... just passing this one along)
Click to expand...

Thanks whitewave for hunting that down! I guess I just can't get over my own little mental block for going down from a G to J in color without any $ savings. Also I'm really hung up on the fact that stones at certain weight mark (i.e. 1 carat, 2 carat, 2.5 carat, 3 carat etc) will jump in price, and was hoping I can get something that's in between 2.25-2.5.
 
Drizzle said:
Thanks whitewave for hunting that down! I guess I just can't get over my own little mental block for going down from a G to J in color without any $ savings. Also I'm really hung up on the fact that stones at certain weight mark (i.e. 1 carat, 2 carat, 2.5 carat, 3 carat etc) will jump in price, and was hoping I can get something that's in between 2.25-2.5.
Click to expand...

That is a savings there reflected in the price-- it is a crafted by infinity brand diamond
 
whitewave said:
Is that pavilion number correct? 46.6
Click to expand...

:snore: oh no!!! I meant to write 40.6...thank you so much for catching this. Looking to edit the OP but not seeing a obvious way to do so.
 
The JA stone will be pretty
 
lalala said:
I mentioned in my other post that the IS image does not look the best.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8620 - 2.31ct H ($25,186 wire)

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8968 - 2.32ct I ($23,010 wire)
Click to expand...

Thanks Lalala for your input. I tried to google "how to interpret IdealScope image" on my own but the most I gathered is that the left side of the table might have some leakage? Other than that it seems to show "chunky" arrows and looks pretty symmetrical to me.

With the 2 HPDiamonds you shared above, I would lean towards the H colored one...but I'm worried about the SI1 inclusions being visible somehow.
 
HPD inclusions are not visible. I have an SI2 and I can't find the inclusions.
 
Drizzle said:
Thank you HappyNewLife for sharing. Your wife is one lucky woman :) May I ask what is a 60/60 stone? and would the one I posted from JA be considered one?
Click to expand...

I'm the other wife who is getting the upgrade. I'm the spoiled rotten one!

Here's some info: https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/60-60-diamonds-1503.htm

But to make a long story short, 60/60 diamonds tend to flash white flashes rather than colorful ones (fire). The diamond you listed is not 60/60 - it means 60% table and 60% depth. I'm so excited about my ACA!
 
Drizzle said:
Thanks Lalala for your input. I tried to google "how to interpret IdealScope image" on my own but the most I gathered is that the left side of the table might have some leakage? Other than that it seems to show "chunky" arrows and looks pretty symmetrical to me.

With the 2 HPDiamonds you shared above, I would lean towards the H colored one...but I'm worried about the SI1 inclusions being visible somehow.
Click to expand...

Lots of information on their site about how their diamonds face up whiter and how their cut "hides" inclusions. That is probably the incorrect term to use but here are a couple of links. You can also look them up on YouTube.

I didn't post any of the WF diamonds because I'm sure you've seen what they have within budget. I just wanted to show you another option.

Clarity

Color

Also, I currently have a diamond from JA but I wasn't involved in my ering process. If I could start from scratch, I'd start at WF or HPD ;)2 but I know once you start looking and see the size bump you can get over at JA that makes it a harder decision to make. You start to think you are comparing apples to apples and it SEEMS like you are getting more for your money at JA but you are not. Needless to say, YES, you can find a beautiful diamond at JA but it will not be a super ideal cut diamond.

Others will chime in and be able to help better guide you! Best of luck!
 
lalala said:
but I know once you start looking and see the size bump you can get over at JA that makes it a harder decision to make. You start to think you are comparing apples to apples and it SEEMS like you are getting more for your money at JA but you are not. Needless to say, YES, you can find a beautiful diamond at JA but it will not be a super ideal cut diamond.
Click to expand...

THIS. EXACTLY. :appl: I think I'm getting stuck in the mindset of looking at all the variables on paper, and it SEEMS that the JA diamond is a *better* value for your money. Yes the cut is NOT super ideal, but even for a VS1 the inclusion is VERY minimal (see below), it's a G color, HCA score of 0.8 blah blah...

I really wish there was a way to see it in person.

upload_2017-10-31_16-1-53.png
 
What do you guys think of ordering two diamonds (given that all vendors that were mentioned JA, WF, and HRD have risk free return policy) and comparing in person? Of course that would result in me returning one, because no way we can keep both stones...is that unethical?
 
Definitely not unethical- you are potentially spending a very big chunk of $ and if you can afford to buy both I say go for it. You need to be completely comfortable with the stone you get.
 
Not unethical at all, they have return policies for a reason. I think you should try the JA diamond - it seems to be speaking to you :)

I assume you have it on hold? If so, can you share the link so we can see the video?
 
Just be super careful to handle them properly and do not mix them up :mrgreen2:
 
Seeing both together is the best way to compare if you can pay for two stones temporarily. I'd put them on credit cards and then get refunds and wire the money for the one you choose to get the wire discount. But I'd choose a WF ACA for sure! That JA stone has more leakage than I am comfortable with. Look at WF ACA idealscope and ASET images and you'll see a consistent red in the center.

Also, there isn't a big price jump at 2.5 cts. These are not the specs you are looking for, but it shows there isn't a jump at 2.5.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3905122.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3817253.htm

But with your budget, I'd try to stretch a bit and get this one:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3817253.htm
 
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diamondseeker2006 said:
Seeing both together is the best way to compare if you can pay for two stones temporarily. I'd put them on credit cards and then get refunds and wire the money for the one you choose to get the wire discount. But I'd choose a WF ACA for sure! That JA stone has more leakage than I am comfortable with. Look at WF ACA idealscope and ASET images and you'll see a consistent red in the center. Also, there isn't a big price jump at 2.5 cts.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. If you want to compare to a JA, give us a bit to look for a better one.
 
Do you need to have it all now?

Are you open to upgrading on a future anniversary?

If yes, then I'd say get the best ACA you can within budget from WF with the goal of upgrading till you hit your goal size.
 
Drizzle said:
What do you guys think of ordering two diamonds (given that all vendors that were mentioned JA, WF, and HRD have risk free return policy) and comparing in person? Of course that would result in me returning one, because no way we can keep both stones...is that unethical?
Click to expand...
Nope - it's completely sensible given what you're looking to spend! but as rockysalamander says, make sure you don't mix them up!!
 
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