42 Damaged Melee on Whiteflash Engagement and Wedding Ring Set - Seeking Advice Please!

[MiniMouse]

Gosh, it has been 17 years since Pricescopers gave me wonderful advice when selecting a center diamond, engagement ring and wedding ring. Knowing how helpful Pricescopers are, I’m back to ask for much needed advice... PLEASE! Background info follows (sorry it's so long).

In 2005, whilst home in Seattle on vacation (we worked in the Middle East), my fiancé and I selected a center diamond, engagement ring and matching wedding ring through Whiteflash. The two representatives at Whiteflash were nothing short of fantastic to work with.

Although wanting a 2 carat diamond, inventory was extremely low and we ended up selecting a beautiful 1.6 carat D color VS2 ‘Expert Selection’ (just short of ACA) diamond. Whiteflash set the diamond in a 4-prong platinum engagement ring setting with ACA melee on ¾ of the band, the wedding ring matched with the same ACA melee. The set turned out to be drop dead gorgeous, wildly surpassing our expectations. We were delighted.

Fast forward to 2009 (or maybe a year earlier), whilst home in the States for a 2 week vacation, I took my rings to a reputable jeweler in Seattle for cleaning. Before accepting, he closely inspected both rings and advised that there was evidence of damage to ACA melee on the engagement and wedding rings where they had rubbed together during wear. I didn't think to ask how many were damaged, I just assumed it was minor as the jeweler didn't elaborate further. He also noticed rubbing to the base of the head on the engagement ring. In addition, the center diamond on the engagement ring was spinning and therefore not secure.

I contacted Whiteflash but as we were heading back to the Middle East in a week, they were unable to accommodate a quick turnaround, which was perfectly understandable. We therefore took the local jeweler’s advice and had him solder both rings together to prevent further damage to the ACA melee and base of the engagement ring head. He also added two additional prongs to the engagement ring, to further secure the main diamond. Rings were also cleaned.

Early this year we returned home to the USA permanently (yay!), and all was well until a month ago when one of the ACA melee on the wedding ring was lost during wear. A day later I felt a sharp edge and found the wedding ring broken away either side of the sizing bar and a second ACA melee missing (see my amateur photo attached).

I contacted Whiteflash and after receiving shipping instructions I forwarded both rings for inspection and repair. My accompanying letter asked that both rings be fully inspected, to include checking ALL diamonds for damage and provide repair cost (including for missing and damaged melee).

Whilst liaising via email with Whiteflash I thought I’d do what any avid Pricescoper would do and ask about an upgrade. I inquired if there was a 2 carat diamond of similar quality in stock, even going down to an eye clean SI1 and E or F color. Perhaps I could persuade my husband to splash the extra cash – worth a try!

Unfortunately I learnt an upgrade does not work in my favor after so many years. Diamond prices have increased substantially over the past 17 years and this increase is reflected in the price of new diamonds, whereas the credit for my 1.6 carat diamond remains at the purchase price in 2005. Therefore the financial gap between both diamonds is huge. The upgrade from a 1.6 carat D VS2 Expert Selection to a 2 carat E VS2 ACA diamond (unfortunately no SI1 ‘Expert Selection’ currently available) would cost approx. $21.5K extra for an upgrade to a diamond that is only .40 of a carat larger. I question whether it’s worth it. Would there be that much difference visually? Note to others…. Upgrade as soon as possible after purchase. LOL

Anyway, going back to my engagement and wedding ring situation, after inspection Whiteflash advised:

Repair of wedding band, replace 2 ACA melee, refinishing, soldering and FedEx return.
$765.00.

OK, we were fine with the repair cost. All good, but I inquired if all the melee on both rings had been checked for damage (again remembering what our local jeweler had told us in approx 2009). I was told they hadn’t checked and would reinspect both rings.

The follow-up email from Whiteflash:

“Thank you for your patience while I waited for the follow up inspection results from Production of your rings.

Unfortunately they did find that the majority of diamonds are damaged.

Engagement Ring Melee
24 Stones Total (18 damaged in some way)

Center appears to be un-harmed.

Wedding Ring
26 Stones Total (2 missing 24 Damaged)

The Production Manager is recommending you purchase a new set of rings. Here is the link to them on our website. https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/wedding-sets/diamonds-for-an-eternity-diamond-wedding-set-1490.htm#size=6

We can give you material value on your rings which would be approximately $100.00 total. Also you can get the Customer Loyalty discount on the new ring set.”

I have attached a photo of my broken ring and also the photos kindly provided by Whiteflash showing the melee that have been damaged on both rings.

The number of melee damaged is not what I expected from normal wear (rings were not worn during gardening or any heavy duty chores). At time of purchase I believed my wedding set to be “fit for purpose”. We were never advised that both rings (sold as a wedding set) would (not could) suffer damage to the melee if worn together. At time of purchase Whiteflash did not mention a spacer should be used or, alternatively, have the rings soldered together, to prevent unavoidable damage. I have voiced my concern to Whiteflash and received the following response:

“This style of ring is sold many times over and the design has proven to be structurally sound.

We all wear our rings differently, some more robustly worn than others, so the wearing environment and wear and tear will vary between wearers.

I am sorry for the disappointment, but it is something that cannot be prevented during normal wear.

Do you happen to have Jewelers Mutual Insurance? If so, this would certainly be covered.

If you want us just to fix the wedding band and replace the two missing melee we can do that, with the understanding of the condition of the melee stones.”

So, basically, Whiteflash have advised me that the damage to 42 diamonds (melee) on my rings is ‘normal wear’, and have suggested the following two options for repair:

1. Whiteflash fix the broken wedding band and replaces the two missing melee (this is my expense, which is fine), and I then wear both rings knowing 42 diamonds (melee) are damaged.
   My view: In my heart I know I would be very unhappy wearing rings with the majority of melee damaged (now that I know how extensive the damage is).
   
   
2. Follow the Production Manager’s recommendation to purchase new rings (Whiteflash will give me approx. $100 material value for my current rings) and I finance a brand new set of the same rings (retailing at $5578, plus some sort of customer loyalty discount), add my 1.6 carat diamond, knowing these style of rings have the same design issue as the previous set, so I would need to have them soldered together before wear (which I would do). With this I would need to get over the sentimental feeling of losing my original rings.

This whole situation doesn’t sit well with me. Perhaps I’m naïve by expecting both rings to be suitable to wear together when purchased as a wedding set. I fully accept wear and tear at my expense (such as for the snapped wedding ring and missing melee), but damage to the majority of melee in ring designs that allow the melee to rub together? Whiteflash states that “it is something that cannot be prevented during normal wear. My normal wear has damaged 42 melee (most likely damaged before the rings were soldered together circa 2009). Has anyone else had to deal with the same situation with these style of rings sold as a set? Shouldn't a vendor issue a disclaimer when selling these sets, indicating that unless a spacer is used or both rings are soldered together, damage to melee will occur? I wonder how many customers are wearing these rings together, oblivious to ongoing damage? How many customers would actually buy these rings if they were aware of this design issue? Had I known about the design issue, I would probably have still purchased but would have most definitely requested both rings be soldered together immediately before wearing as a set.

Sorry for the long post, ultimately I would really appreciate advice. What would you do in my situation? With the obvious added expense, an upgrade to a 2 carat diamond is most likely off the table.

Attached are: Photo of my broken ring and a two photos (one of each side) of the engagement ring and wedding ring indicating (in orange) where the melee are damaged.

 

[MamaBear]

I don’t have answers to your questions, just wanting to say I’m sorry you’re going through this!

 

[nala]

I don’t know where to begin. Part of me wants to say that you got a good run of this set for 17 years! You enjoyed them and they gave you happiness. Second. Focus on a new setting and a different one. It’s an opportunity for change. But. Don’t give whiteflash your old set for 100 dollars! Keep it. That way you don’t have to deal with the heartbreak of letting go. Heck. If for 100 dollars you can avoid separating from them—Keep. Finally. If you are looking for Some Kind of legal recourse for not being advised of the damage—-did they ever say these rings will last a lifetime? That’s a hard claim to prove. Wear and tear is a given in life. I know that a diamond is forever, lol, but 42 diamonds nestled together prob are not.

 

[MrsBlue]

Respectfully, after 17 years of wear and other jewelers working on the piece, I don't think WF is obliged to give you anything. Even if you wore the wedding band by itself for 17 years, it would spin, rub against things, and likely get damaged.

I would advise you to purchase new rings and be happy. Keep your scrap and make a wind chime out of it or something.

 

[MiniMouse]

I don’t have answers to your questions, just wanting to say I’m sorry you’re going through this!

Thank you MamaBear, I'm not trying to diss Whiteflash, they were great to work with when we purchased the rings. We're just disappointed at their stance on this matter, claiming the damage to 42 melee is just normal wear. I guess it is normal wear on rings that are not designed to be worn together.

 

[Rfisher]

I’d do the $765 fix and live with it for awhile. All nice and super clean by them.

Then decide if I needed all new melee/brand new setting.
Whether same style or plain engagement band or whatever. And weigh out the upgrade of center stone possibility too.

The melee being ‘mind clean’ and not damaged is a real thing - and we all define (and live with) that differently.

If you wouldn’t have asked - they wouldn’t have evaluated them all to the extent they did - I don’t know - maybe they only bring to customers attention super broken ones that need replacement? Or maybe it’s replace the missing and requested and don’t pay much attention to the rest because it’s not warranted? I don’t know?

Maybe this is a huge recommendation for people with melee like this to get an insurance policy with JM. Would JM even insure with this type of setting ( that some people here call chainsaws) unless a spacer is used or soldered? I don’t know?

I can understand the frustration but I don’t think different jewelers would handle it differently.

 

[MiniMouse]

Respectfully, after 17 years of wear and other jewelers working on the piece, I don't think WF is obliged to give you anything. Even if you wore the wedding band by itself for 17 years, it would spin, rub against things, and likely get damaged.

I would advise you to purchase new rings and be happy. Keep your scrap and make a wind chime out of it or something.

In all due respect MrsBlue I think it is rude to advise turning a sentimental engagement and wedding ring into a wind chime.

 

[MiniMouse]

I’d do the $765 fix and live with it for awhile. All nice and super clean by them.

Then decide if I needed all new melee/brand new setting.
Whether same style or plain engagement band or whatever. And weigh out the upgrade of center stone possibility too.

The melee being ‘mind clean’ and not damaged is a real thing - and we all define (and live with) that differently.

If you wouldn’t have asked - they wouldn’t have evaluated them all to the extent they did - I don’t know - maybe they only bring to customers attention super broken ones that need replacement? Or maybe it’s replace the missing and requested and don’t pay much attention to the rest because it’s not warranted? I don’t know?

Maybe this is a huge recommendation for people with melee like this to get an insurance policy with JM. Would JM even insure with this type of setting ( that some people here call chainsaws) unless a spacer is used or soldered? I don’t know?

I can understand the frustration but I don’t think different jewelers would handle it differently.

Thank you Rfisher for your constructive and helpful response. Very much appreciated. As I said in a previous post, I am not here to criticize Whiteflash, I am just trying to figure out the best way forward and most Pricescopers give very helpful advice, such as you. Also, education is key when others are choosing ring styles.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I am sorry that this happened to your rings. Looks like a beautiful set but also the type of rings that you would have to be very careful with while wearing. Not sure if you wore them all the time or not but I am sure a spacer would have been in order.
What if you reset your diamond into a four or six prong solitaire setting and used the ering melee to replace the damaged ones in the wedding band? Not the same look of course and if the melee diamonds have exposed girdles, you would still be wise to wear a spacer. Those girdles will cut into prongs.
After 17 years, I honestly doubt that you have much recourse. For $100 I would keep the original set and try to use the undamaged melee into another piece of jewelry.

 

[MrsBlue]

In all due respect MrsBlue I think it is rude to advise turning a sentimental engagement and wedding ring into a wind chime.

I apologize for my insensitive statement. It was not at all my intention to offend. What I meant to express was that you are better off keeping your rings for any reason and not accepting the $100 material discount.

 

[Cerulean]

I think back to the photos that @Garry H (Cut Nut) posted of an absolutely trashed diamond from someone who was unsuspecting

Clapping your hands at a concert, accidentally laying your hands down a bit too hard on a counter, etc…all of these seemingly innocuous activities can build up to lots of damage over the years. Just because you didn’t wear your rings weightlifting or gardening doesn’t mean things didn’t happen.

Some people neurotically baby their rings, I am not one of those people. I’ve seen shocking gashes in my platinum shanks and couldn’t tell you how they got there! And my rings aren’t old!

Anyways, all I can say is, I think Whiteflash’s seeming should shrug is just the matter of fact reality that things happen. 17 years for pave with the girdles exposed is honestly a long time.

I’d personally use this as a chance to get something sturdy, beautiful and new and treat it as a way to commemorate a new chapter.

I’m also not terribly sentimental and would scrap it, but that’s an entirely personal decision. If anything it might make you sad to look at the raw, empty setting

 

[Rfisher]

@MiniMouse

Out of curiosity
Have you been given a macro photo of your melee face up as it is now?

 

[MiniMouse]

I do appreciate all the replies, thank you.

I want to add that I have not asked and do not plan to ask Whiteflash to give me anything, that is not the intention of this thread, I wasn't even going to mention Whiteflash in my post, but since the attached photos had Whiteflash splashed on them, it would have been obvious.

Actually, if I ask anything of vendors, it would be to request they recommend to buyers of such ring sets to add spacers or solder these type of rings together, rather than sell as is. My rings would likely not have incurred damage to melee (or not so much damage) had I used a spacer or had them soldered together from day one. I would have avoided the upset I am feeling right now and perhaps just be dealing with paying to fix a snapped ring and missing melee, as the band is very thin and therefore more fragile than solid platinum or gold rings. Thank you to those who appreciate the upset I am going through and have provided helpful comments.

 

[marymm]

Perhaps considering having WF remove the undamaged ACA melee from both the ER and the WB, and have them set just those stones on a new ER setting similar to your old, except the melee will probably only go 1/4 or 1/3 on each side.

Per your old thread on this set, you had noticed 2 shadowy melee stones back in 2005 and WF promised to replace them for free next time you were in the State ... ask WF to add the 2 replacement stones to the new ER setting comprised of the undamaged ACA melee from your old set. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/heartfelt-thanks-to-whiteflash.34513/page-2 see post #34

Pair with a new plain (or engraved) platinum WB.

Voila -- you'll have a beautiful new ER/WB set that should stand the test of time, and your ER retains the undamaged ACA melee.

ETA: if instead you decide to go with a whole new ER & WB, ask WF to pull the undamaged ACAs and send them back to you along with the additional 2 replacement stones -- 2mm ACA melee may be useful in a future project or, for that matter, should you need to replace future melee on a new set.

 

[MiniMouse]

@MiniMouse

Out of curiosity
Have you been given a macro photo of your melee face up as it is now?

I haven't, I hate to bother Whiteflash too much as I already asked for the photos I posted earlier. However, I don't believe the damage can be that obvious, otherwise surely I would have noticed it before, mind you I don't scrutinise my rings close up. I wonder whether just repairing the ring and living with the damaged melee might be the way to go (gulp), but then with rings that are thin, perhaps I'm courting another disaster in the near future after 17 years of wear.

 

[MiniMouse]

Perhaps considering having WF remove the undamaged ACA melee from both the ER and the WB, and have them set just those stones on a new ER setting similar to your old, except the melee will probably only go 1/4 or 1/3 on each side.

Per your old thread on this set, you had noticed 2 shadowy melee stones back in 2005 and WF promised to replace them for free next time you were in the State ... ask WF to add the 2 replacement stones to the new ER setting comprised of the undamaged ACA melee from your old set. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/heartfelt-thanks-to-whiteflash.34513/page-2 see post #34

Pair with a new plain (or engraved) platinum WB.

Voila -- you'll have a beautiful new ER/WB set that should stand the test of time, and your ER retains the undamaged ACA melee.

marymm, Whiteflash were true to their word and replaced the two shadowy melee back in 2006 when we were back home in the States for vacation. They did a fine job.

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[MamaBee]

I’m so sorry this happened to your wedding set. There are so many ways you can damage melee on rings. When you have melee on a set you have to be more careful to not damage them. Even if you were extra careful..damage can happen without you realizing it. Clapping was mentioned above. Even handling a shopping cart can damage them. I know someone that damaged her ring on one. Hitting your ring against anything metal can do it too. Of course wearing any diamond ring against another diamond ring can damage them too. Seventeen years is a long time. I would look into having your diamond reset into a new set. Keep the damaged one for sentimental reasons. Again..I’m so sorry.

 

[tyty333]

I love @MissGotRocks idea about using the engagement ring stones to fill in for the damaged ones on the wedding band. Put your
center diamond in a beautiful solitaire. That way you get to keep the sentimentality of your wedding band. I think its a good
compromise if you're not ready to spend $5k on a new setting (don't blame ya there!).

 

[MiniMouse]

One idea I have in mind is to remove the 1.6 ct center stone and reset it in a new 3-stone ring setting (platinum) and purchase two additional side diamonds (not sure how large I could go with the two side diamonds for 'bling' factor), all on a platinum band. Then have my current (broken) melee wedding ring fixed up as best as can be fixed (since it is of more sentimental value to me, as it was blessed at our wedding), moving the few undamaged melee from the existing engagement ring setting, onto the wedding ring , but that's if Whiteflash feel the wedding band is strong enough to fix, and if they can move melee. Thoughts?

 

[MissGotRocks]

One idea I have in mind is to remove the 1.6 ct center stone and reset it in a new 3-stone ring setting (platinum) and purchase two additional side diamonds (not sure how large I could go with the two side diamonds for 'bling' factor), all on a platinum band. Then have my current (broken) melee wedding ring fixed up as best as can be fixed (since it is of more sentimental value to me, as it was blessed at our wedding), moving the few undamaged melee from the existing engagement ring setting, onto the wedding ring , but that's if Whiteflash feel the wedding band is strong enough to fix, and if they can move melee. Thoughts?

Sounds like a lovely idea! I would definitely ask WF what they think about using the undamaged melee in the wedding band with the sizing bar replaced. I think that could definitely work! Please keep us posted!!

 

[MiniMouse]

Sounds like a lovely idea! I would definitely ask WF what they think about using the undamaged melee in the wedding band with the sizing bar replaced. I think that could definitely work! Please keep us posted!!

This is why I came to Pricescope… you and others have given me ideas to work on. Thank you!!!

 

[MissGotRocks]

This is why I came to Pricescope… you and others have given me ideas to work on. Thank you!!!

Well, most of us have gotten as good as we gave - just makes PS a wonderful place!

I know you will get this dilemma figured out and I can’t wait to see what beauties you end up with!!

 

[Niel]

Frankly I’m surprised they would direct you to file an insurance claim for something that is wear and tear damage.
Maybe they meant the actual break in the shank.

They were very respectful with your request. They also showed their ethics by steering you away from an upgrade when they would have greatly benefited from it.

You were uneducated in the proper care and maintenance of this ring. That’s is your fault. Not WF.

This does nothing but showcase WF professionalism and your audacity.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

There are a huge number of people posting images of chain saw rings that they continue to buy here on PS.
Any ring where the girdle of the diamond sticks out past the metal on the side is a chain saw looking for another ring to destroy.
If the other ring has chainsaw diamonds then you have a classic chain saw fight about to happen.
Sometimes when the ring is new it is all OK, but after 5 ten or 15 years the war begins.
The classic Tiffany shared prong ring that every dumb person buys or jewellers stock are the worst offenders.

The next biggest issue is as Cerulean alluded to is concert damage.
And the best way to avoid that is to google Nicole Kidman clapping.
And the next best way is to alawys never ever make a ring with diamonds all the way around. Keep about 1/4 or 1/5th as plain metal - that way you will feel when the stones have turn inside your hand and become car door handle children and other rings when clapping nightmares.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

It must be of great consolation to you that your center stone is intact.

Jewellery sticker shock is a big thing: Repairs, settings, upgrading, etc, especially when you are not expecting them. Your rings are really lovely; they are simply, worn out. Now thinking about what to do moving forward, adds stress to the sticker shock.

Can you take some time to think about what you might want ? Is there any urgency to get this done right away? I liked your 3 stone ring suggestion. And I thought the suggestions by other posters of using the intact melee for another band a reasonable one.

Much success to you.

cheers--Sharon

 

[yssie]

I love the idea of resetting your 1.6ct into something with a plain shank, and replacing the damaged melee in your wedding band with undamaged melee from the engagement ring. Beautiful new engagement ring, beautiful revamped wedding band, add a tiny inexpensive spacer and no more worries about future damage, ever.

Then, may I suggest having all the damaged melee made into a Tiffany DBTY style necklace or bracelet? WF does beautiful bezel work, and the bezels will protect the damaged girdles, and you’ll have a new piece to keep enjoying those old stones with. I’ll bet they still sparkle a ton, girdle damage and all!

 

[Slickk]

The classic Tiffany shared prong ring that every dumb person buys or jewellers stock are the worst offenders.

Yes!! @Garry H (Cut Nut) is so right about the Tiffany. My DIL has one a scant 2.5 years and already it has damaged her ering. Yes, I warned her …

@MiniMouse I am so sorry about your set. I do think, however, 17 years is a good run for that style. I don’t believe pave is known for its durability. I would reset the main stone in a glorious solitaire and use the ering melee to repair the wedding band. Much luck.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I do appreciate all the replies, thank you.

I want to add that I have not asked and do not plan to ask Whiteflash to give me anything, that is not the intention of this thread, I wasn't even going to mention Whiteflash in my post, but since the attached photos had Whiteflash splashed on them, it would have been obvious.

Actually, if I ask anything of vendors, it would be to request they recommend to buyers of such ring sets to add spacers or solder these type of rings together, rather than sell as is. My rings would likely not have incurred damage to melee (or not so much damage) had I used a spacer or had them soldered together from day one. I would have avoided the upset I am feeling right now and perhaps just be dealing with paying to fix a snapped ring and missing melee, as the band is very thin and therefore more fragile than solid platinum or gold rings. Thank you to those who appreciate the upset I am going through and have provided helpful comments.

i feel so sad for you reading about your rings
yes i absolutly think the sales people should be selling spacers with such rings
why not ! its also a little bit if extra money in the till each sale
but over my working life (not selling jewlery mind) i have observed so many of my colleagues that don't put much thought into their customer's needs )

i feel insulted on your behalf at the $100 thing
your rings have provided you much happiness over the years and are sentimentality worth more than that

my sister had a very nice mall store early 2000's ER that was all mealie
She didn't even know she had lost a stone for years till she took it in for sizing

i have a rather large ( almost fashion) ring with a lot of mealie - i wear it often on my index finger
im going to be a bit more careful from now on

i wish you best wishes for a solution, making your current ring mind clean or getting a new set
either way i hope you can reuse your diamond (and maybe some of the mealie)

personally - and honesty what would i know - ive never been engaged to even get an ER
but i'd do the $700 repair in the meantime
surely your ring has earned that after 17 years

if i was getting a new ring .....
because im a sentimental old fool - but on a budget ,
i would keep the old ring but replace the mealie with inexpensive coloured stones (because i like coloured stones) - mind clean on a budget and a completly different look while keeping my origonal ER

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I love the idea of resetting your 1.6ct into something with a plain shank, and replacing the damaged melee in your wedding band with undamaged melee from the engagement ring. Beautiful new engagement ring, beautiful revamped wedding band, add a tiny inexpensive spacer and no more worries about future damage, ever.

Then, may I suggest having all the damaged melee made into a Tiffany DBTY style necklace or bracelet? WF does beautiful bezel work, and the bezels will protect the damaged girdles, and you’ll have a new piece to keep enjoying those old stones with. I’ll bet they still sparkle a ton, girdle damage and all!

i love this Yssie

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

There are a huge number of people posting images of chain saw rings that they continue to buy here on PS.
Any ring where the girdle of the diamond sticks out past the metal on the side is a chain saw looking for another ring to destroy.
If the other ring has chainsaw diamonds then you have a classic chain saw fight about to happen.
Sometimes when the ring is new it is all OK, but after 5 ten or 15 years the war begins.
The classic Tiffany shared prong ring that every dumb person buys or jewellers stock are the worst offenders.

The next biggest issue is as Cerulean alluded to is concert damage.
And the best way to avoid that is to google Nicole Kidman clapping.
And the next best way is to alawys never ever make a ring with diamonds all the way around. Keep about 1/4 or 1/5th as plain metal - that way you will feel when the stones have turn inside your hand and become car door handle children and other rings when clapping nightmares.

i just had to Google
what a polite well mannered person she is to think to protect a borrowed ring
her mum and dad brought her up right even if idiots on the internet have no idea of why