a bit of advice needed

[bee*]

Hey all, just need a bit of advice. A friend of mine is being treated so badly by her bf-they basically are on the internet all night, every night talking to other people, he never goes out with her ever(we''re talking a year without a night out so far), he calls her fat, she found an online internet dating agency profile that he had set up and there''s lots more stuff happening too. But the thing that I find baffling is that she still wants to get engaged to him. She asks my advice and she even tells me that she doesnt really love him but when you tell her that she should sit him down and try and get him to talk to at least even try and work things out with him, he wont do it. I can be quite blunt in these situations and I think that she is making a huge mistake if she does get engaged to him as she even says herself that she is not happy in this situation and he treats her badly. I just dont know what to say to her as I really dont understand why someone wants to get engaged to someone who treats them badly. I want to get engaged to D as he treats me like a princess and always takes care of me but I couldnt stay with him, much as I love him, if he treated me badly. Things dont get better when you get a ring on your finger and I just dont know how I can get her to see this. Do you have any advice on what I can say to her. SHe knows that I''ll always be there for her and Ive told her that, but she just seems so hooked on getting engaged-and its not about the ring either.

 

[Mandarine]

Sorry to hear you''re going through this...it''s actually so hard seeing our good friends in a bad situation like this....

I''ll tell you what I would do. Be BRUTALLY honest. It might hurt her, she might even be upset at you, but believe me...she''ll come around.

Tell her how much it hurts to see someone with so much potential wasting her time with someone that does not respect her at all. Does she really want to marry someone that will insult her in front of her kids??. What kind of family will she be raising and what kind of values will she be showing her childrem by allowing him to treat her like a piece of trash?.

Your friend sounds like she has some big self-esteem issues and staying with this guy is just not going to help her self-respect. The problem really is not him, the problem is her. She''s allowing someone to treat her like this...maybe because she doesn''t feel like she can do any better...or maybe because she''s afraid to start over with someone new....whatever the reason, she obviously has some issues she needs to work on.

A friend of mine is also dating a loser (not as bad as your friend)....but I''ve had to be brutalyl honest with her many times. Not so that I can say ''I Told you so'' but because I wouldn''t be able to call myself her best friend if I wasn''t telling her what I see is hapenning.

I would try to stay away from comparisons (to you or anyone else). Just try to shape the conversation in a way that she can see her self in the future and how it looks that future will be.

Good luck!!

M~

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Gee this sounds all to familiar....
First tell her she needs to talk to a counselor. Next tell your friend that she needs to lean on other people. She has low self esteem and she probably thinks that this is the best that she can do. SHE can DO BETTER!!!

Also take her out and show her some fun. make sure she never worries about him, but she takes care of herself. She will begin to realize that she can turn herself around.

Good luck. keep me posted...

 

[Pandora II]

Buy her a copy of "Women who love too much" and be brutally honest. Sounds as if she loves him more than herself.
However, doesn''t sound like he''s likely to propose any time soon from what you say. She would be making such a mistake.

 

[allycat0303]

Ugh. I''m in this position. And to be honest, sometimes you can give them a warning, tell them the absolute truth, and it will get you nowhere. And at that point all you can do is take a step back and realize that people have to make their own decisions and live with the consequences of their own decisions. This was a really hard, hurtful process for me, but I''ve learnt that when it comes to friends and family, sometimes all you can do is support then when the evitable collapse occurs.

Good luck!

 

[bee*]

thanks for the advice. To answer some of your replies-I have been brutally honest with her two days ago,and she hasn''t spoken to me since. Its very strange as she will give out about him all day long and she tells me all the things he does to her and yet as soon as you say dump the loser, she wont respond to you for ages. She wont meet up-I havent seen her in ages! I will suggest meeting up for a drink, she''ll reply about something totally different, she emailed me to say that she was thinking of going for a walk and I said sure I''ll drive up to you with my dog and we can all go for a walk and then she says that she thinks she''s going to stay in instead. I have a feeling that there is even more going on than meets the eye. Oh yeah, I forgot that he''s apparently going to Germany for a work "conference" after he started talking to a german person on the internet a few months ago. She said that she knows that hes not actually going to a work thing and this is why Im actually getting quite annoyed with her too as she said that she knows he''s doing all these things but she still wants a future with him.

. I really doubt he''ll propose though-I would be very surprised if he did,which I suppose is a blessing as she might eventually see sense.

 

[onedrop]

bee*

I don''t post much on the LIW boards, but your situation intrigued me. I feel for you. It is a difficult matter trying to manage these types of situations. But I am with what ally said. You say your piece and then you just pray they see the light at some point. And then be there for here when she needs support. It seems that maybe you hit a nerve in that she had not spoken to you since you spoke your mind. It is a sad situation, yet it is one that she will have to extricate herself from. I hate to see this really. People being treated badly by people they love. It is a shame.

 

[SoonIHope]

Bee, Yuck, I''m sorry you have to go through this! I am in a sort of similar situation, only the guy isn''t really that bad. The problem is that she has talked about getting engaged with not one, but TWO guys before her current boyfriend, then dumped both of them at approximately the 1 year mark for her "upgrade." So now that her current boyfriend is saying he wants to propose to her NOW (after ~ 8 months) I''m trying to warn her that she should at least wait until the crucial 1 year mark to see if she wants to dump him for someone better!! But she has gotten so mad at me, and blames me for...I''m not sure what exactly...but somehow related to my being engaged now; like she thinks I don''t want her to be happy? And that I hate her boyfriend, which I DON''T - but I just see enough teeny things in him that I could see potential for him not to be a good lifelong partner, so she should just be REALLY REALLY SURE before getting engaged. ACK so frustrating!!!!

Anyway, back to you - I agree with what Ally said. I tried the brutally honest route (after some not-so-subtle hinting), and while I am definitely glad that I did (at least she will hoepfully think about it a bit more), I realized that anything else I say is just going to screw up our friendship. She knows how I feel and even wrote me a really sad email saying that she hopes I''ll still be excited for her if she ends up getting engaged as soon as they were discussing because if not she won''t want to tell me - ACK!!! She''s my best friend, she HAS to tell me when she gets engaged!! So yeah, I think that now that you have laid out all your cards to your friend, just step back and try not to mention ANYTHING else about it, no matter how hard that is. She knows what you think, and hopefully that will work its way into her thought process, but ultimately she''s going to do whatever she wants to do so you should just try to support her as much as you can. That said, I''m not sure how you can get back on her good graces if she really won''t talk to you now....I hope things do work out for you two (and she sees the light re: her relationship) soon!!!

 

[Mara]

agreed, it''s hard to see that happening, but just be sure not to alienate her with too much brutal honesty, in case she does end up crashing and burning..you want her to have someone to come to to help pick up the pieces.

 

[Pandora II]

Was thinking this over this evening.

When my younger sister got engaged at the age of 25 to a guy she met while working abroad, I was really not convinced it was a great idea. They argued quite a bit, had never lived together and just moved back to the UK. Above all, I didn''t think she knew what she wanted in life and so wasn''t ready to get married.

I was told that I was jealous because she was younger and getting married before me and to butt out.

Well, 7 years on, they have been unhappy together since they got engaged. I have lost count of the near-breakups. I think the lawyer''s number is on my sister''s speed dial. They have a 2 year old and a baby due in 2 weeks. He makes her unhappy, she makes him and herself unhappy.

I wish I''d not shrugged my shoulders and let them get on with it.

 

[bee*]

wow-some really great advice! At this stage I think Im just going to wait a bit and see will she contact me next week.
Thats sad about your sister Pandora-its a pity that shes in that situation. I know that my friend will be if she go ahead and stays with her bf.

 

[ladykemma]

this might sound really cold but...
say what you have to say once. more than once is being a nag. decide for yourself what, if any, contact you want with this person and if you want any contact with the creep.

because at this point you are feeling her craziness and she is feeling nothing.

I used to try to help but learned it''s better to let people sit in thier dirty diaper. don''t clean them up.

NMP - not my problem.

 

[bee*]

I hear what you''re saying ladykemma! I think I agree with you at this stage

 

[kcoursolle]

I agree a little with ladykemma and bee, and here is what I would do.

Girl...you are caught in a lose/lose situation. If you tell her to get rid of him and she stays with him, then she will always feel that you don''t approve of him and feel bad that she could do better. If you tell her to get rid of him and she does and becomes unhappy, then you will be blamed. If you don''t tell her to get rid of him and she doesn''t, then you''ll feel bad that she is with such a creep. Crappy situation to be in.

I would sit her down once and be honest and sincere that you don''t like him because of x,y,z.

Then, I wouldn''t bring it up ever again. If she stays with him, I would accept it and just give her emotional support when she needs it as her friend. This is something that she has to decide, and she needs to feel like she did it for herself.

just my two bits, good luck!

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Hi Bee~
I agree with bits and pieces of what's already been said, so I won't pour out some more advice. However, I offer my sympathy that you're dealing with a sticky situation. A friend of mine is getting married this weekend. Our mutual friends and I have been in the same position you are in right now since she got engaged 2 years ago. We've tried to help her see the light of what she's doing (i.e. throwing her life away, I wish I were exaggerating.) The bottom line is you can't make someone see the other side of the coin. You can help, but if she doesn't want to see it or refuses to acknowledge it, that's it. Your constant disapproval will only create resentment...even if you're not the only one who's not thrilled about her relationship.
In the case of my friend, we've tried the interventions i.e. listing the pros and cons, weighing the good and the bad, expressing our complete disgust with his actions and the way he treats her when a fight happens or he does something horrible (there are plenty of instances,) etc. Small example: she recently had to take out a loan to take care of some extra wedding expenses because she's paying for the wedding herself. By 'herself' I mean no help from her fiance. None. Anyway, she needed a cosigner for the loan to be approved. She asked one of our mutual friends who called me asking what to do because she doesn't want this guy to ruin her credit like he did our friend's (the bride.) She came up with the courage to say no because she doesn't trust him, and luckily our friend understood. There are a million reasons why she shouldn't marry this boy (he's 40 but in no way mature enough to be called a man) and we think/hope she has finally started to see the signs, but is ignoring them.
She's scheduled to walk down the aisle this weekend. I want to be happy for her, but I just can't. We've talked this over a million times and it offers little comfort to think that we've done all we can to show her how things are supposed to be, but in the end she is her own person and she's going to do what she wants to do, despite what her family and friends think. It's heartbreaking, and I'm just thankful my honey is able to fly home to be at the wedding with me. What's worse is there are no guarantees that someone will not 'forever hold his peace' during the ceremony. It's a mess. I'm sorry for rambling, but your friend's situation hit close to home. I didn't go into too much detail about WHY the guy's such a loser, but trust me he is, and I feel your pain. For me, I've tried to help her choose a different road. She stayed. Therefore, she is my friend and I am going to support HER decision on her wedding day, even though I don't feel it's the right one. That does not mean I support her marriage or her loser soon-to-be husband, but I'll be there for her whenever she needs me.
Good luck Bee. You've expressed your concerns, so maybe there's not much else you can do. You can't prevent something from going wrong, but if this is the path your friend chooses all you have to decide is whether you want to continue this friendship and help pick her up when she falls. I know this has been a long post, but I wanted you to know you're not alone and this is how we're handling a similar situation. I hope it helps!

 

[bee*]

I know exactly what you''re saying IrishAngel. Its really hard to look on and watch your friend make that big a mistake. Well my friend emailed me again today and told me more horrible things that he did, how she doesnt trust him, etc ,etc,etc but then on the other hand saying that she thinks he''s her best friend etc.They havent spoken properly to each other she reckons in about 10 mths as he''s on the internet all day every day and next week he is going away on his work conference,which she knows hes lying about. Ive been trying to get us to talk about other things as I find it really hard to read all the things that she writes about him and then in the next sentence, saying how hes her best friend etc. No best friend,let alone your boyfriend and partner should treat you like that!
Its also worrying me that she never meets up with anyone anymore-she used to be out all the time but not in the past couple of years since she met him.

 

[decodelighted]

This might be unconventional & controversial ... but I say tell her you don't want to hear ONE MORE WORD about it. You'll talk to her about fashion, the weather, recipies, her family, pets etc ...but NOT HIM, NOT ANY LONGER. You've made it clear that you think she's better off without him ... no need to keep rehashing it because it brings YOU down. And YOU're not the one CHOOSING to stay in it!

I agree with Lady Kenna .. you're feeling upset & horrible for her and she's FEELING NOTHING, mostly because the minute she has a "bad" feeling/thought/complaing, she's dumping it on her friends.

She's not gonna get out of this as long as people keep listening to her "problems". She's GETTING SOMETHING OUT OF THIS: attention, being able to stay "the victim", blah blah blah.

If she reaches out dramatically - recommend she see a professional. I don't think any friend or layman is gonna cut through her fog ANYWAY.

ETA: yes I've been through this with many friends ... one in particular MANY different times. Using this technique is the only way I've been able to STAY friends with her & not go CRAZY myself! Sure enough, eventually she dumps the bastards (or they dump her!)... I keep hoping the next will turn out SPIFFY ... but, I've realized, I have to BE AN EXAMPLE ... and SHOW her what she's missing by picking jerks, by being HAPPY in my own life ... not by playing constant emotional nursemaid.

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Deco has a point Bee! If it bothers you the way she complains, ask her to stop. Also, set an example...it won''t necessarily change anything, but over time maybe she''ll see the light. I hope she does!