Advice on Blue Sapphire Needed

[adastra]

First of all, I have to say thank you to all of the PSers who have posted here. The discussions here are really useful for newbies like me. This forum really assists me a lot in my gem hunt. Grateful for who have contributed here!

Before I reach here, I only have a very vague idea about sapphire. Then I have read quite a number of posts here and then I approached Mr. Jeff White a while ago for a blue unheated Ceylon sapphire for the purpose of an engagement ring. Roughly 2 carats. Jeff showed me 3 stones which may match my find and are ready to be re-cut. I explored further with one of those due to the shapes I preferred (roundish oval and round).



Jeff has been very patient and accommodating in answering queries and sending photos. I've got the some photos under different conditions. The colour in the very first photo looks quite promising to me: blue with little violet, medium dark. But after seeing the rest of the photos, I am concerned will that stone be too dark, especially indoor/low light condition. I has been told that the colour of the body after re-cut will be like those currently light/brilliant bits and that the extinction will be eliminated







So I need some advice for you all as to the colour of this sapphire: will the tone be too dark after moving indoor? And further is this colour, especially regarding the tone, close to the trade ideal? I know this one is not comparable to the Kashmir ones, esp the vivid-ness but definitely I hope to get a top-grade or close (not the top-pest as I couldn't afford it) given it will be set into a e-ring. Any other things that I should pay attention? Grateful to have your advice.

 

[lexilex]

Hi there,

I see you haven't gotten a response yet, so I will try to help.

Based on the photos, it would seem like this stone is a little bit grey? Which is rather off putting on a sapphire ( At least I think so).

Depending on your budget, it might be a good buy. But you say that you're looking for the "Trade Ideal". And this is not it. ( In my opinion)

Just my two cents.

 

[chrono]

It should brighten up significantly after a recut. Do you mind posting a picture of the other 2 contenders (for re-cutting) as well?

 

[adastra]

lexilex: Really thank you for your response! It is very nice of you to give me your thought. Upon re-looking the photo looks a bit "washed out" as on my monitor. It looks more saturated on my cellphone.

But anyway I agree that it is not very intense. But then I just wonder would a intense to vivid stone be more prone to black out in low-light? I don't have the benefit of seeing a intense to vivid stone under dim light. Or perhaps an intense to vivid stone will have an ability to maintain its colour?

Chrono: Thanks for your reply as well! I trust Jeff's cut will definitely lighten up the stone as he shows me some before-and-after pictures. Just that I am not sure about the stone after re-cut will not overly-approach dark and that colour is close to one of the fine blues. Of course I don't mind (and hope no one including Jeff would mind). Here are the three stones Jeff chose for me based on the colour range I indicated.

 

[lexilex]

lexilex: Really thank you for your response! It is very nice of you to give me your thought. Upon re-looking the photo looks a bit "washed out" as on my monitor. It looks more saturated on my cellphone.

But anyway I agree that it is not very intense. But then I just wonder would a intense to vivid stone be more prone to black out in low-light? I don't have the benefit of seeing a intense to vivid stone under dim light. Or perhaps an intense to vivid stone will have an ability to maintain its colour?

Chrono: Thanks for your reply as well! I trust Jeff's cut will definitely lighten up the stone as he shows me some before-and-after pictures. Just that I am not sure about the stone after re-cut will not overly-approach dark and that colour is close to one of the fine blues. Of course I don't mind (and hope no one including Jeff would mind). Here are the three stones Jeff chose for me based on the colour range I indicated.

Hi adastra,

Ultimately, it's your decision.

However, remember that when you buy your stone, and therefore if one day you have to sell it , it will always be appraised under lights that mimic outside/midday light. Or even in broad day light. So you want to base your purchase on what the stone looks like outside in a good day. Or under special lights. Not what it looks like in dim light. It's true nature is revealed with natural outside light.

 

[adastra]

Hi lexilex, your reminder is truly helpful for me as a beginner in the world of CS and I should take things and stones in their best light. In the meantime I have started to read some more about the grey-ish and saturation, never imagine the hunt for a stone would be meaningful (in the educational sense!)

 

[lexilex]

Hi lexilex, your reminder is truly helpful for me as a beginner in the world of CS and I should take things and stones in their best light. In the meantime I have started to read some more about the grey-ish and saturation, never imagine the hunt for a stone would be meaningful

Just remember that a greyish hue in a sapphire in not desirable. Unless of course this is what you're looking for, but then the price would be lower.

Happy to help

 

[chrono]

I base my purchase on what the stone looks like in all types of lighting conditions, not just the best lights. I spend a lot of my time indoors under fluorescent bulbs where most sapphires go to die, so I have to be picky that it still looks beautiful in my office. Sapphires look their best under strong diffused sunlight, so if it looks great under my office lights, I know it will be a stunner outdoors.

I do not take resale pricing into the equation because I know I will never be able to recoup the original price on it. I buy what I love (be it neon or gray) and make sure that the pricing is fair.

 

[adastra]

I base my purchase on what the stone looks like in all types of lighting conditions, not just the best lights. I spend a lot of my time indoors under fluorescent bulbs where most sapphires go to die, so I have to be picky that it still looks beautiful in my office. Sapphires look their best under strong diffused sunlight, so if it looks great under my office lights, I know it will be a stunner outdoors.

I do not take resale pricing into the equation because I know I will never be able to recoup the original price on it. I buy what I love (be it neon or gray) and make sure that the pricing is fair.

I concur that resale pricing is a non-factor. After all, it is meant to be a part of a special ring. I pretty much like to check under every light including dim light for an obvious reason . Office lighting is also applicable in my case as the ring will mostly be worn in such situation. I will bear that in mind.

In fact I was offered a chance to personally inspect but the shipping and stuff are rather expensive, together with the fact that my inexperience and ability to imagine the colour after re-cut. The outdoor shot is quite nice but can't really say the same under fluorescent light. All these make me quite indecisive now but only by looking at more real sapphires and of course learning from you and fellow PSers can help.

 

[adastra]

So the hunt continues.

I was offered the following by a contact in Sri Lanka. 2.26 carat. medium blue. untreated. loupe clean. Below are the screen captures of the stone under room light (as I was told):









The colour is a bit violetish and not that blue? My gut feeling is that it is not as good as Jeff's offer. Also seems that are extinctions on the east west sides. Grateful to hear you guys's opinion.

 

[chrono]

What struck me most about the sapphire is how "dull" it looks because the saturation level is quite low.

 

[adastra]

Chrono: Right, that does not "wow" me. It looks less saturated when it appears in still shots...

 

[adastra]

Ok, it is me again. I hope this won't bore you further (though I know my previous posts are boring). And I hope this will turn better. For easy reference, I am now looking for an unheated blue sapphire, round or roundish oval, roughly 7.5mm or 6mm x 8mm (hence looking for a 2-carat). Want to avoid turning to violet under fluorescent light (thanks to Chrono's advice that the stone should be viewed under the lighting where the stone is usually seen) as much as possible. no black out in low light. eye clean.

Here is a list of sapphires I have been considering. Please give me your honest opinions.

https://www.mastercutgems.com/Produ...AGL_Natural_Unheated_Sapphire_2_41_ct-Gem.php It is quite a good fit save for the possibly visible inclusions. not intense but I assume this can be at least called "strong" in terms of saturation?

http://www.finewatergems.com/store/p30/2.29_ct_Unheated_Blue_Sapphire.html Gary described as classic cornflower blue and the hand shot is quite promising although other photos looks a bit "cold" (maybe due to the black background). I know there is another one on finewater gems with greater saturation but heated.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1161-oval-portuguese-cut-3-11cts so far can't locate one with the hue I like plus having a size I prefer. this one is a bit too large but the blue is quite pleasing though I think that is not very saturated? considering there is strong light in the photos, this will appear too dark in not-so-strong light?

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1286 saturation is good I suppose. but the shape is not as good as I would like.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1289 heated. but I think this is close to the trade ideal (like, cornflower blue)? think this will perform better in low light.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1262-oval-portuguese-cut-2-92cts perhaps this is the closest to the trade ideal among all gemfix listed here but a bit violetish to me. proportion-wise a bit elongated.

http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_2_10_carat/1086/18939 heard that Ed's photos have too much light. not sure if this is true about this one. from the photos only (not considering the lighting conditions), the colour is similar to MasterCut's and the 3.11 from Gemfix. Apart from the "true colour", what worries most is the dark cloud which is quite noticeable.

http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_2_20_carat/10880/18938 If considering the photos from Wildfish have too much light, this stone may not be as light as it seems and will probably do well in low light? again, seems there are inclusions (blemish?) on the crown.

I guess that is all for now. Hope to receive some comments and opinion on the above stones. Other recommendations are welcome!

 

[pregcurious]

I like the Finewatergems stone, based on the hand shot. I have noticed that his stones look washed out in the close up studio pics, compared to the hand shots. I believe the hand shots are more accurate.

 

[adastra]

I like the Finewatergems stone, based on the hand shot. I have noticed that his stones look washed out in the close up studio pics, compared to the hand shots. I believe the hand shots are more accurate.

Thanks pregcurious for you reply, which is very helpful, especially for inexperienced buyer like me! I will find out more from finewatergems

 

[chrono]

My short list, out of your options:

http://www.finewatergems.com/store/p30/2.29_ct_Unheated_Blue_Sapphire.html
My top pick

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1289
I like this one a lot too, but it is heated, which you prefer to avoid.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1262-oval-portuguese-cut-2-92cts
I like this one a lot too.

 

[adastra]

My short list, out of your options:

http://www.finewatergems.com/store/p30/2.29_ct_Unheated_Blue_Sapphire.html
My top pick

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1289
I like this one a lot too, but it is heated, which you prefer to avoid.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1262-oval-portuguese-cut-2-92cts
I like this one a lot too.

Chrono: it is really kind of you to share your view! I am definitely following up on the one on finewatergems as that falls within my preferred proportion apart from the fine colour.

https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1289
I am also much attracted by this colour and it kind of glows (at least in the pic)! If it is an unheated, I guess I would have more difficulty in picking.

 

[hobbitfancier55]

Another vote for the finewater stone! I love the color, and the cut also seems the best to me out of all the ones you posted. It's also less expensive

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Please excuse me if I'm too late to the party. Are you only looking for a round? I found some gorgeous ones from John, and wanted to at least mention them.

2.59cts
7.5 x 7.4 x 5.7mm
Unheated
$9,998
http://johndyergems.com/catalog_pages/gemstone-Sapphire3791.html

2.30cts
8.1 x 5.4 x 5mm
Unheated
$7,934
http://johndyergems.com/catalog_pages/gemstone-Sapphire3959.html

 

[adastra]

hobbitfancier55, thanks for giving me your thought! my heart is now closer to the finewatergems sapphire

SparkliesLuver, never too late in sharing great stones! I am looking for a round/roundish oval/oval. From the pictures you attached, the round seems to me violetish-blue (not sure if it is the problem of my monitor) which I am not that into. The radiant cut is closer to blue but the shape does not fit for my present purpose.

 

[adastra]

Thanks to lexilex, Chrono, pregcurious, hobbitfancier55 and SparkliesLuver

I finally bought and received the stone from finewater gems. I now understand the difficulty of capturing the right colour under a camera! All the photos are captured by an iPhone. But I realise there is quite some difference on iPhone screen and my monitor screen.

First 3 indoor with a window on the side (on a sunny day) last 3 are indoor under fluorescent light. For now I tend to keep this but comments are welcome!

Catching some outdoor sunlight:


Another angle with fewer scintillation:


Just beside the window sill:


Under indoor white light:


It becomes darker at some angles:


The top bit is a bit pale comparing to the other bits (which has been shown on finewater gems' site)

 

[chrono]

What is your opinion? Does it shift as much as your pictures show?

 

[adastra]

What is your opinion? Does it shift as much as your pictures show?

I have been carrying this stone with me. Under white light at home (which I suppose it is fluorescent) it is blue with little violet, saturation is good but I don't think it can be described as intense/vivid. Tone is darker than I have thought but that does not bother me. A bit pale on one side as previously pointed out and will see if setting can remedy that.

At office the stone has a bit more violet undertone, although it is also under white light (maybe the colour temperature is a little bit lower) Another thing is most of the time I view the stone at office is when it lies down on the foam and I find out that in such a position, the colour became darker comparing to that on hand. So I will play the stone on hand under office light again. Don't really have any chances to place it under sunlight, only manage to get it near a window sill which makes the stone looks the best, apart from being under an LED 10X loupe . I guess the handshot on Gary's site is taken in shaded outdoor light. As to the shift, my last photo was not taken in the correct white balance and the colour does change when it is lifted from the white little foam (darker) to the hand. My bad for not taking consistent photos.

Checked the inclusion under a loupe found a two-part dotted line (i.e.: - -) under the table. That line does reflect light when there is sunlight coming through a side window. So I guess that is the inclusion. Fortunately it is not noticeable without a loupe or not looking at a very close distance like 2 or 3 inches without enough light .

A lot of sparkle when I move the stone around. scintillation is good. not sure if that is true for average stone since I don't have the chance to view enough sapphires in person to pass that judgment. I suspect that is the cutting does the magic. And that really attracts me.

So this time I try to take the photos again (under white light) and keeping white balance constant. I slightly moved my hand around so that light hit on the stone in different directions. In short, I think that stone "passes" one of the fluorescent light tests and so I tend to keep it. will see it again under some other office lighting.





I think that is all for now!!

 

[chrono]

I cannot believe that I have completely forgotten Wink Jones. Yes, I know that it is a diamond website but Wink started in the CS industry, has strong CS connections and loves CS. I have purchased from him many times, found that we see eye to eye on colouration and his prices are incredibly fair.

http://highperformancediamonds.com/contact-us/

 

[adastra]

I cannot believe that I have completely forgotten Wink Jones. Yes, I know that it is a diamond website but Wink started in the CS industry, has strong CS connections and loves CS. I have purchased from him many times, found that we see eye to eye on colouration and his prices are incredibly fair.

http://highperformancediamonds.com/contact-us/

Wow, it seems that Wink is really a good vendor! And thanks Chrono again for sharing this! But I am not sure if I would check (edit: with) Wink... it has been a while since my search and wish to get this done soon though I understand that searching for the right stone really takes time...

 

[mahaha]

Hi adastra,

I am also looking for a stone similar to yours. How do you like your stone so far? Thanks again for your detailed pictures in different lighting.

 

[adastra]

Hi adastra,

I am also looking for a stone similar to yours. How do you like your stone so far? Thanks again for your detailed pictures in different lighting.

@mahaha I am satisfied with the stone and having it set. I am not sure what further you wish to know but do let me know if I can help. I understand it could be difficult when you are looking for such an important stone but fellow PSers here are all very kind and give helpful comments and advice.

From reading your post, especially the photos from NSC, it seems you are look for a darker colour than my stone posted here. Just want to let you know about that. my stone is a tad lighter in real life.

 

[mahaha]

Thanks for the reply adastra! Looking forward to see how your stone looks after being set!

I don't want a stone that is too dark actually. I want there to be a blue glow looking at it from far away. Not black =T