Advice on diamond to buy

[andresgi]

Hello!

I am looking to purchase natural round diamond. The amount I am willing to spend is 3,500USD aprox and I have narrowed the search to the following options. I have attached the scoring given by the HCA Tool in each one (score, light return, fire, scintillation, spread and comment). They also have photo and video inside the link.

Which one do you think is the best option?

Link / URL	Carat|Color|Clarity	Table|Crown|Pavilion	Cut Advisor Score	Light return	Fire	Scintillation	Spread
Option 1	0.8|F|VS2	57|36.0|40.6	1.9	Very good	Excellent	Very good	Very good
Option 2	0.8|H|VS2	58|35.0|40.8	1.4	Very good	Excellent	Excellent	Very good
Option 3	0.8|H|VS2	55|34.5|40.6	0.8	Excellent	Excellent	Excellent	Very good
Option 4	0.8|E|VS2	58|35.0|40.8	1.7	Very good	Excellent	Excellent	Very good
Option 5	0.8|H|VS2	56|34.5|40.8	1.2	Excellent	Excellent	Excellent	Very good
Option 6	0.76|G|VS2	56|34.0|41.0	1.2	Excellent	Excellent	Very good	Very good

Thanks for your help!

 

[Kim N]

My favorites are these two.

0.80 Carat Round Diamond GIA 2457218521 | Ritani

0.8 Carat Round Earth Diamond ID Cut H Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #2457218521

www.ritani.com

0.80 Carat Round Diamond GIA 5446688673 | Ritani

0.8 Carat Round Earth Diamond ID Cut H Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #5446688673

www.ritani.com

For close to your budget, though, I'd prefer to go with a super ideal cut diamond. You'll have guaranteed perfect light performance and a great upgrade policy.

Diamond | 0.800 ct H VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4555905

This fabulous 0.800 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4555905

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.801 ct G SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4531063

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.801 carat G color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4531063

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.801 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 2962069

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.801 carat I color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 2962069

www.whiteflash.com

 

[MissGotRocks]

My favorites are these two.

0.80 Carat Round Diamond GIA 2457218521 | Ritani

0.8 Carat Round Earth Diamond ID Cut H Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #2457218521

www.ritani.com

0.80 Carat Round Diamond GIA 5446688673 | Ritani

0.8 Carat Round Earth Diamond ID Cut H Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #5446688673

www.ritani.com

For close to your budget, though, I'd prefer to go with a super ideal cut diamond. You'll have guaranteed perfect light performance and a great upgrade policy.

Diamond | 0.800 ct H VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4555905

This fabulous 0.800 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4555905

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.801 ct G SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4531063

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.801 carat G color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4531063

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.801 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 2962069

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.801 carat I color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 2962069

www.whiteflash.com

I agree with all of the above. Definitely consider Whiteflash!

 

[headlight]

From your options, #3 without any doubt whatsoever! I would die for that one!

 

[headlight]

As for the suggested WF stones, the H, VS2 has me drooling.
Obviously you can see I absolutely LOVE small tables!

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, andresgi!
I commend your chart: you've certainly put in the time to do research and the organization of your front-runners.

I'll keep my answer simple:
This one!

Loupe360

loupe360.com

 

[sindiamonds1]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, andresgi!
I commend your chart: you've certainly put in the time to do research and the organization of your front-runners.

I'll keep my answer simple:
This one!

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Just wanted to learn more haha why did yall pick diamond 3 > 5 considering we don't have access to h&a and aset scopes

Is it because diamond 5 is vs2 with a feather grade setting inclusion?

 

[DejaWiz]

Just wanted to learn more haha why did yall pick diamond 3 > 5 considering we don't have access to h&a and aset scopes

Is it because diamond 5 is vs2 with a feather grade setting inclusion?

The proportions are a bit for favorable for #3, with the 40.6/34.5/55 combo, 75 lowers, a taller 15.5 crown.

 

[sindiamonds1]

The proportions are a bit for favorable for #3, with the 40.6/34.5/55 combo, 75 lowers, a taller 15.5 crown.

I see!! Thank you as always i always thought 34.5/40.8 is the ideal combi - but guess its important to look at the other numbers too.

Am i right to say though that having the aset and h&a scopes would be required to truly know which diamond is better?

 

[DejaWiz]

I see!! Thank you as always i always thought 34.5/40.8 is the ideal combi - but guess its important to look at the other numbers too.

Am i right to say though that having the aset and h&a scopes would be required to truly know which diamond is better?

That is correct: ASET is a valuable tool that we can use to get details of cut precision and optics for any diamond of any shape.

 

[Kim N]

I see!! Thank you as always i always thought 34.5/40.8 is the ideal combi - but guess its important to look at the other numbers too.

Am i right to say though that having the aset and h&a scopes would be required to truly know which diamond is better?

34.5/40.8 is the Tolkowsky ideal (and my favorite combo as well), but I think there are many on this forum who have a soft spot for the smaller table and wider arrows of #3.

 

[DejaWiz]

34.5/40.8 is the Tolkowsky ideal (and my favorite combo as well), but I think there are many on this forum who have a soft spot for the smaller table and wider arrows of #3.

 

[andresgi]

Thank you all for your valuable input and sharing your knowledge in the matter. I ordered #3 based on your recommendations and I'm just waiting on diamond availability from Ritani (still can cancel the order).

Two questions though. The HCA tool says this suggestion:
"Diamonds scoring below 1.0 may be more suitable for earrings and pendants than rings."

1) #3 has a score of 0.8, that's why initially wasn't an obvious choice to me (I will place this diamond in an engagement ring). Is this suggestion still valid?

2) Why the #3 was an obvious choice to you? Was it because of the proportions? @DejaWiz

Finding the perfect diamond has been a great adventure and I would love to learn more about it!

 

[DejaWiz]

Thank you all for your valuable input and sharing your knowledge in the matter. I ordered #3 based on your recommendations and I'm just waiting on diamond availability from Ritani (still can cancel the order).

Two questions though. The HCA tool says this suggestion:
"Diamonds scoring below 1.0 may be more suitable for earrings and pendants than rings."

1) #3 has a score of 0.8, that's why initially wasn't an obvious choice to me (I will place this diamond in an engagement ring). Is this suggestion still valid?

2) Why the #3 was an obvious choice to you? Was it because of the proportions? @DejaWiz

Finding the perfect diamond has been a great adventure and I would love to learn more about it!

In this case, don't worry about the HCA score of 0.8 - it cannot take into consideration all of the individual facet angles which are averaged and rounded. The HCA has a minor overhaul not long ago and most super ideal cut diamonds will score slightly below 1...you can see this at the PS diamond search engine for Whiteflash ACA RBC diamonds.

Indeed, the proportions were my deciding factor: I'm a sucker for a 40.6 PA paired with a 34.5-35.0 CA and a smaller table width leading to a taller crown height (plus the shorter 75 lowers is a plus)...a nod towards a bit more fire. This diamond ought to wow your socks right off.

 

[Kim N]

I agree with DejaWiz on the HCA score. A score of 0.8 is not a problem at all, especially on this stone.

 

[sindiamonds1]

For what it's worth, i personally feel that option 5 would be a great too! Depends on your personal preference - do you like fatter or thinner arrows?

The crown height of 15% and 56% table size are good values too for fire.

I believe VS2 stones would not have durability concerns, but option 5 only has feather as a grade setting inclusion - thats would probably be the reason why I choose 3 > 5

 

[andresgi]

Thanks! Ritani just confirmed that #3 is available for me. I hope everything's is OK in the process, hopefully I can share real photos with you.

I think #5 was an excellent option too, it appears someone just bought it haha

 

[sledge]

I see!! Thank you as always i always thought 34.5/40.8 is the ideal combi - but guess its important to look at the other numbers too.

Am i right to say though that having the aset and h&a scopes would be required to truly know which diamond is better?

All the numbers matter as they work in relation to one another. Just as perfect symmetry allows light to enter, bounce and leave at optimal levels to produce the best light return performance.

When viewing lab reports, be sure to keep in mind you are seeing a portion of the picture. A round diamond has 57 facets (1 table, 8 stars, 8 kites, 16 upper girdles, 8 pavilion mains and 16 lower girdles) but may have 58 if there is a culet.

We tend to focus mainly on the crown/pavilion relationship and there are 8 main crown and pavilion angles each to consider. GIA individually measures each of them and then averages them and rounds to the nearest 0.50 degree for crowns and 0.10 degree for pavilions that are reported as single values on the lab report. While a lab report may show 34.5/40.6, individual measurements *may* reveal something along the lines of a 34/40.4 at one location and 34.5/40.8 at another. And 6 different values on the remaining facets that all average and round to the values shown on the lab report.

Using an ASET won’t provide individual measurements in a numerical format but it can graphically show you where there may be great or less intense light return on a diamond, thereby sort of indirectly identifying actuals that do and don’t work well together.

In regards to “fat or skinny arrows” this is a function of several proportions but you can start to see how the lower girdle facets in combination with the table size can change the appearance of a stone when all else is equal. Again, rounding occurs. A GIA reported 75 LGF may have actuals ranging from 73-77 just as a GIA reported 80 LGF may have actuals ranging from 78-82. GIA rounds to 5%, whereas AGS rounds to 1%. With GIA stones, this can get confusing if actuals average out to 77 and 78 as one diamond would be reported as 75 LGF and the other as 80 LGF. That said, you would typically expect a lower LGF value to exhibit fatter arrows, whereas a larger value would exhibit a more skinny arrow but with 77 and 78 actuals it'd be hard to discern a difference.

The caveat being *actual* LGF’s of the same value will appear fatter on a smaller table than on a larger table. So if you had 76 actuals on a 54 and 56 table, the stone with the 54 table would appear to have fatter arrows although both may be reported at 76 (using AGS-type values as GIA is too inconsistent with their 5% variance). In smaller stones and when not zoomed to 20-50x arrow size isn’t as dramatic to the naked eye; however, those fatter arrows create more contrast which many find more pleasing.

In regards to your purchase, I wish you well. If it were me I would buy my own ASET and heart scopes and have the stone shipped loose so you can evaluate at home prior to mounting. Ensure light performance and symmetry meet your expectations. If it doesn’t you can return the stone and start over.

One concern that immediately caught my attention is the arrows at 4-7 o'clock is slightly out of alignment. This may be over-dramatized as the diamond looks like it was photo/videographed on a tilt of sorts (notice how the arrow shafts on the left are much shorter than those on the right?).

Edited:
I didn't highlight the arrow at 4 o'clock in yellow, but you can also see it has some symmetry issues as well.

 

[DejaWiz]

All the numbers matter as they work in relation to one another. Just as perfect symmetry allows light to enter, bounce and leave at optimal levels to produce the best light return performance.

When viewing lab reports, be sure to keep in mind you are seeing a portion of the picture. A round diamond has 57 facets (1 table, 8 stars, 8 kites, 16 upper girdles, 8 pavilion mains and 16 lower girdles) but may have 58 if there is a culet.

We tend to focus mainly on the crown/pavilion relationship and there are 8 main crown and pavilion angles each to consider. GIA individually measures each of them and then averages them and rounds to the nearest 0.50 degree for crowns and 0.10 degree for pavilions that are reported as single values on the lab report. While a lab report may show 34.5/40.6, individual measurements *may* reveal something along the lines of a 34/40.4 at one location and 34.5/40.8 at another. And 6 different values on the remaining facets that all average and round to the values shown on the lab report.

Using an ASET won’t provide individual measurements in a numerical format but it can graphically show you where there may be great or less intense light return on a diamond, thereby sort of indirectly identifying actuals that do and don’t work well together.

In regards to “fat or skinny arrows” this is a function of several proportions but you can start to see how the lower girdle facets in combination with the table size can change the appearance of a stone when all else is equal. Again, rounding occurs. A GIA reported 75 LGF may have actuals ranging from 73-77 just as a GIA reported 80 LGF may have actuals ranging from 78-82. GIA rounds to 5%, whereas AGS rounds to 1%. With GIA stones, this can get confusing if actuals average out to 77 and 78 as one diamond would be reported as 75 LGF and the other as 80 LGF. That said, you would typically expect a lower LGF value to exhibit fatter arrows, whereas a larger value would exhibit a more skinny arrow but with 77 and 78 actuals it'd be hard to discern a difference.

The caveat being *actual* LGF’s of the same value will appear fatter on a smaller table than on a larger table. So if you had 76 actuals on a 54 and 56 table, the stone with the 54 table would appear to have fatter arrows although both may be reported at 76 (using AGS-type values as GIA is too inconsistent with their 5% variance). In smaller stones and when not zoomed to 20-50x arrow size isn’t as dramatic to the naked eye; however, those fatter arrows create more contrast which many find more pleasing.

In regards to your purchase, I wish you well. If it were me I would buy my own ASET and heart scopes and have the stone shipped loose so you can evaluate at home prior to mounting. Ensure light performance and symmetry meet your expectations. If it doesn’t you can return the stone and start over.

One concern that immediately caught my attention is the arrows at 4-7 o'clock is slightly out of alignment. This may be over-dramatized as the diamond looks like it was photo/videographed on a tilt of sorts (notice how the arrow shafts on the left are much shorter than those on the right?).

Edited:
I didn't highlight the arrow at 4 o'clock in yellow, but you can also see it has some symmetry issues as well.

Absolutely fantastic post - welcome back, sledge!
We've truly missed you!

 

[sledge]

Absolutely fantastic post - welcome back, sledge!
We've truly missed you!

Thank you. Always glad to be back talking diamonds. Just sometimes life doesn't like to cooperate with my desires, lol.

 

[DejaWiz]

Thank you. Always glad to be back talking diamonds. Just sometimes life doesn't like to cooperate with my desires, lol.

We've all been there at some point - life can be a rollercoaster and, oftentimes, with no seatbelts.

But I do believe this is quite fitting for you:

 

[MissGotRocks]

Thank you. Always glad to be back talking diamonds. Just sometimes life doesn't like to cooperate with my desires, lol.

So good to see you back Sledge!! You have been missed but have had some galant stars helping many others. Hope life has simmered down and will allow you to be around!!

 

[Dandi]

Welcome back @sledge, you have certainly been missed! I hope you and yours are all doing well!

 

[Bonfire]

Missed ya @sledge. Happy you’re back!

 

[DejaWiz]

Hi, sledge!
I centered the diamond as best I could for option #3 and took a screenshot, if you want to perform your magic again:

 

[sledge]

Hi, sledge!
I centered the diamond as best I could for option #3 and took a screenshot, if you want to perform your magic again:

Here you go. As you can see, not all the arrowheads or shafts are perfectly symmetrical. The shafts at roughly 4 and 10 o'clock appear to be off by the most. Also, if you look through the center, you will see not all the lines intersect at a common point showing more symmetrical issues.

This doesn't necessarily make it a bad stone or choice. Just don't expect perfect H&A.

I still encourage checking light performance with either an ASET or idealscope. Both can be had for about $50 each (I personally prefer ASET, but idealscope is easier for most). If you want to get a H&A scope, that's another $30 or so. FYI, to get the hearts you place the stone face down and place the scope over the pavilion (bottom) of the diamond. Therefore, it's critical the stone is loose. The others look at a face up view and with some work can be viewed with the stone still mounted.

If the ASET or idealscope images show poorly I would return & start over. If not, then live & learn.




FYI, borrowing some of Garry's images here. These show bad H&A images but decent idealscope images. The second one is leaking a little but not horribly.

 

[rab813]

Those h&a/idealscope examples are really cool! Thank you re-sharing @sledge. If Im recalling correctly, there was a post where @Wink mentioned a stone that he got on a trip to belgium that is basically the inverse - a perfect h&a pattern that is a poor performer. I think the point was similar to yours; that h&a patterning/symmetry doesn't necessarily indicate a good or bad performer in and of itself.