Advice Please

[waves044]

I am wondering if you wonderful ladies can give me some opinions/ share experiences to help me out a little bit...

First some background: My boyfriend and I have been together for nearly 3 years and I love him dearly. I am 22 he is 24 (yes, young I know) I am currently a student finishing up my senior year and working towards my CPA exam. My boyfriend has been working a full-time job (at a factory) as well as another part-time job. So he works very hard when it comes to work!

He is also on his third go-round at school, still attending at community college. Today, he informed me that he was being dropped from his only class, because he had missed 2 classes. Whenever he gets down he always says "I can''t do anything right I am stupid, etc..." I counter that this is not true, he just needs to put the same dedication into school that he does to work and he can be successful. It seems like he just does not care about his (our) future, while I am working my butt off so that I can make a decent income and live comfortably.

I know that I should not care whether he has a degree, and am fine with him not finishing school, if he has a job that gives him a future and potential for growth, rather than a dead end. While I am somewhat embarassed to admit it, I think that if things continue on the track that they are going down now, this will be a source of contention for me throughout our marriage.

I guess I am looking for anyone''s thoughts on whether I should keep trying to help him and encourage him to go to school, even though I see that he is not taking it seriously, should I just allow him to continue on his own path without any encouragement/push and hope for the best, should I think about moving on?

It kills me to think about leaving him, but I just am not sure what to do anymore?

 

[oshinbreez]

Some people just aren''t "college material". What does he want to do? Has he looked at trade schools?

 

[Christa]

Trying to make a guy into what you want him to be almost never works. Painful as it can be, remember that the reason for dating is to find out who he is and decide it that''s what you want. There''s nothing wrong with him being a blue-collar type guy, but there''s also nothing wrong with you deciding that you don''t want to marry a blue-collar guy. The only thing that would be wrong is keeping him and then nagging him to become something he isn''t.

Good luck!

 

[anchor31]

My FI is 24 and he never attended college. It''s not an embarrassing thing; I don''t believe there any carreers that are less worthy or less important than others.

Almost 4 years ago when I met him, my FI was studying to become a carpenter. He got his diploma and worked in his field all summer building movie sets (Gottica and Aviator). He worked a lot and did good money, but by the end of the summer he realised he hated it. He wasn''t comfortable working in an environnement where safety concerns were not addressed, and he didn''t feel safe. He was at a loss and didn''t know what to do... His parents were pressuring him to keep doing this job because it pays well. So I sat down with him and asked him what he liked to do, if there had been anything he''d done while working or studying that he''d particularly enjoyed. He thought about it and said that they''d done a little computer-assisted drawing in his carpenter course; maybe he''d like to pursue this. I stood by him and encouraged him to go back to trade school to get his diploma in industrial design. Last February, he graduated on top of his class and got a job.

My point is: Encourage him as much as you can. Not going to college is not embarrassing... Both my mother and my FI didn''t go and they are amazing, smart and generous people. Your BF is obviously suffering of low self-esteem, and it''s very difficult to deal with. My FI suffers from this also, so I know how hard it can be. He needs support and love and people who will help him get a little faith in himself. Encourage him to go with his strengths, and what he likes.

I''m not sure I understand why you''re considering moving on...? If he was a lazy prat, maybe, but is that what he is?

 

[Maria D]

>>While I am somewhat embarassed to admit it, I think that if things continue on the track that they are going down now, this will be a source of contention for me throughout our marriage. <<

I don't think this is something to be embarassed about admitting. You are not married yet. Dating is the time to figure out if you are compatible. If you feel it's going to be a source of contention, then it's going to be a source of contention. Much better to be honest with yourself and realize that now, not later.

If your boyfriend's goal is to be a college graduate but he has trouble believing in himself, then your efforts to help him along will be encouragement. It's wonderful to have the person you love help you bring about the best in yourself. But if the goal is not his, but yours, your efforts will be experienced as nagging. He'll feel like you want to change him because he's not enough for you.

In my opinion, if you can't accept your boyfriend as a dedicated hard working person who isn't serious about college and may never be, you should move on. The alternatives are nagging or "not pushing and hoping for the best." Nagging will make both of you bitter. Passively "hoping for the best" (which is actually what *you* consider "best", not necessarily *is* best for him) will only work if it happens without your interference. How likely is that if this is his third go-round at school? Moving on will be painful, but the nagging or passive hoping will cause more pain in the long run.

Your situation hits home with me because I had the same kind of boyfriend when I was 22. Decent guy, solid work ethic, good to me, wanted to marry, not the college type. I also felt bad (snobbish?) for wanting my future husband to have an education. I vascillated between accepting, nagging and passively hoping. In the end, it was a very nasty break-up -- but not nearly as nasty as it would have been if we had actually married and divorced! Good luck working this out.

 

[luvinlife]

Date: 10/31/2006 8:00:20 PM
Author:waves044
I am wondering if you wonderful ladies can give me some opinions/ share experiences to help me out a little bit...

First some background: My boyfriend and I have been together for nearly 3 years and I love him dearly. I am 22 he is 24 (yes, young I know) I am currently a student finishing up my senior year and working towards my CPA exam. My boyfriend has been working a full-time job (at a factory) as well as another part-time job. So he works very hard when it comes to work!

He is also on his third go-round at school, still attending at community college. Today, he informed me that he was being dropped from his only class, because he had missed 2 classes. Whenever he gets down he always says ''I can''t do anything right I am stupid, etc...'' I counter that this is not true, he just needs to put the same dedication into school that he does to work and he can be successful. It seems like he just does not care about his (our) future, while I am working my butt off so that I can make a decent income and live comfortably.

I know that I should not care whether he has a degree, and am fine with him not finishing school, if he has a job that gives him a future and potential for growth, rather than a dead end. While I am somewhat embarassed to admit it, I think that if things continue on the track that they are going down now, this will be a source of contention for me throughout our marriage.

I guess I am looking for anyone''s thoughts on whether I should keep trying to help him and encourage him to go to school, even though I see that he is not taking it seriously, should I just allow him to continue on his own path without any encouragement/push and hope for the best, should I think about moving on?

It kills me to think about leaving him, but I just am not sure what to do anymore?

I am not sure if leaving him is the answer. Specially if you are committed to making your relationship work. It is evident that he has a great work ethic, but like many of the ladies already stated, maybe school just isn''t his thing. My BF has a 2 year degree and when he finished he realized that there wasn''t much room for promotion in the career that he had choosen. He then took a job in sales and due to his tenacity and hard work he did did extremely well. After a few years, many sleepless nights, and lots of frugalness he was able to purchase the company that he worked for and bought 5 others!!!

So my point believe in your bf and encourage him until you feel that you have done every last thing you can do.

And hey, best of luck on your CPA exam!

~LL

 

[galeteia]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but 'school' is one of those compatibility issues for me. I just can't relate to people who have no interest in learning for its own sake. That isn't to say they must be formally educated, because I've certainly known (and dated) intelligent people who were simply well-read. If 'simply' is the appropriate word for it; knowledge flowed from their lips as easily as from any graduate students'. Usually people who have an interest in learning and knowledge itself tend to seek it out however they may, regardless of whether or not they went to school. It's not even a matter intelligence, it's a matter of interest.

Then again, I'm the sort of person who finds multilingualism attractive. This summer, I had a few friends over when FF was here, and at one point he muttered that he was going to have 'too many degrees'. Instantly, all my friends and I chimed in with "Mmmmm... too many degrees..." a la Homer Simpson. It's not that we will only date people with too many degrees, it's that the people we tend to like also happen to have too many degrees, spend hours thinking about and discussing things that most of the population doesn't bother with, and use Oxford Commas in their e-mails.

I find it to be a basic factor in one's outlook, along with political and cultural influences. They contribute to whether or not someone 'gets' me. (And I them.)

If you think your disparate approach to careers could be a source of friction, that could be a serious concern. If you are ambitious and he isn't, that could be a problem. And yes, it's frequently true that one can only get so far on a secondary school diploma. (For exceptions, see above post!) As it is, a B.A. barely means anything nowadays!

What sort of goals do you have? Where would you like to be in 10 years? Does he fit into that picture easily, based on his current goals (or lack thereof)? That might help clarify things for you.

 

[RoseAngel04]

Ditto what Anchor said.

Basically college is not for everyone, but in today''s day and age it is becoming more and more vital and important. Still some jobs don''t require a college degree...so if the field your BF is interested in going in doesn''t require a degree, then getting a college education isn''t necessary.

With all that said FI and I are both still in school working towards our bachelors...I hope to continue with graduate school to further my education in my field and advance my career. I think it''s good for individuals to have goals (like we have) and strive to reach them...does your BF have any career/education goals?

 

[waves044]

Thank you all for your fast replies...

I am not so much hung up on him getting a degree, but rather having a direction to work toward. His FT job is currently w/ Ford and is going to be laid off in February, so a change in employment is coming, but I have been growing increasingly frustrated by the level of initiative he has shown in looking for another job. He has no real goals and I think this is the closer to the real issue I have with the situation. Every week he has a new career path and yet he is still stagnate. He says he isnt cut out for school, as some one said, but he doesn''t seem to see the correlation between not studying and doing poorly or not going to class and doing poorly.

Anchor: I think, at times, I do see him as lazy, when it comes to school at least, and that is the core of why his being kicked out of the class has me so upset, if he had bothered to show up he wouldnt have been dropped from the class...
It just kills me to know that he could do so well if he just put the effort in...

 

[RoseAngel04]

Did I read correct that he missed 2 days of class and he was dropped?!

That''s a little over the top if you ask my opinion!

I just read your latest comment....it sounds like your bf really doesn''t know what he wants to do with his life (career wise)....perhaps he hasn''t had his calling yet..

 

[waves044]

It does seem extreme, but I believe it was a night class that meets once a week for a double period, so in effect he missed two weeks of class by skipping those 2 classes.

I would agree that he hasn''t found his ''calling,'' but that is part of the reason that I have encouraged him to get his degree, because without it his career choices will be limited significantly...

 

[RoseAngel04]

oh...well if it's a class that meets once a week and he missed twice that makes a lot more sense!

 

[Maria D]

>>It just kills me to know that he could do so well if he just put the effort in...<<

waves044, I am a high school math teacher. Some of your comments remind me of things parents say at parent/teacher conferences. Are you setting yourself up for a parent/child relationship?

Sometimes it's helpful to look "turn the tables" and look at things from a different perspective. You are working towards a career in finance and working your butt off to become a CPA. This is important to you. Society deems this respectable and worthy. More importantly, YOU deem this respectable and worthy! What if you had a boyfriend that was already wealthy and didn't need or even want a partner that was a good earner. What if he wanted you to develop your nurturing caretaking side and become an excellent homemaker. After you left the beds unmade and then ordered take-out for dinner, what if he said "it kills me to know she could do so well if she just put the effort in..." You'd tell him to find another girlfriend, no?

I didn't read anything in your posts that mentions if your *boyfriend* is upset with being dropped from class or if he's worried about what his next job will be. You can't make him find importance in the same things you do. All you can is hope to find someone with the same values/goals you have.

 

[KimberlyH]

I just read a letter written to Carolyn Hax, the newspaper columnist, regarding this exact subject. The letter writer was harsher than you, waves, but the sentiment was the same. Not that it matters as the end result is the same in both your and the writer''s case, but the letter writer''s boyfriend had a graduate degree but didn''t want to follow the path it lead to and became a handyman. Carolyn'' Hax'' advice was that if she wasn''t happy with the path her boyfriend was choosing it wasn''t her place to try and change him, but it was her place to leave.

It sounds as though he has some self esteem issues, the self-deprecating talk is extremely sad. He is 24 and working two jobs, that''s saying a lot more than most guys his age can.

I think it''s time for you to define your wants and needs (write them down, it makes them more real!!!) in a relationship and see if he fits into what it is you want for your future. If he doesn''t it makes no sense to hang on and both be disappointed.

 

[Aloros]

*de-lurks* I was on here, briefly, a while ago when I thought my ex and I would get married. He sounds a lot like your boyfriend. He was a very nice guy, a good friend, and very smart. We met our freshman year of college. I worked hard, graduated in four years, and lined up a job beforehand. He was kicked out, twice, and subsequently went to community college. He''s still attending, and will be for at least two more years. He works a couple jobs on the side, as a waiter.

Like you, it wasn''t so much the lack of education that got me as his inability to set goals for himself. Or, he''d set goals, but be left confused on how to attain them, and consistently fail to. To get him to do things (much as he said himself how he wanted to), I had to constantly remind him and hold his hand. Once he enrolled in community college, I asked him when he would graduate. It took him several months to tell me, if you could call it that. I had to set aside some time, sit down with him with his course catalog, point out which classes he needed to take to fulfill his requirements, and guesstimate which classes would be transferable in terms of credits.

I knew he could do so well if he just worked at it, if he knew it was what he wanted. He said it was what he wanted, but I could never believe him due to his work ethic. It was so frustrating.

You have to decide what you can live with, and what you can''t. I''d take heed of what Maria D says. You don''t want to find yourself caught in a parent/child relationship with him. I know when you''ve been with someone so long, it''s hard to see things objectively. Try thinking of it this way. You''ve been with him for nearly three years. You can''t expect him to change. Knowing this, could you see yourself with him forever, the way he is now?

My ex changed, in the tiniest of increments, but in the end it wasn''t enough. I''m much happier now, and with someone I don''t feel like I have to take care of. He has the qualities I liked in my ex, none of the things I disliked, and some things I consider bonuses! He knows what he wants and works hard for it.

Please don''t settle, for his sake and for yours. I wish you happiness, either way.

 

[bookworm21]

First off, there''s nothing wrong with you wanting a more stable future. But keep in mind that not all people are cut out for college. My bf never finished high school, and he is successfully self-employed, making more than he would have had if he had earned a degree and worked at a 9-5 job.

If you think it''s worth it, encourage him to possibly look into other careers that have the potential for growth. Don''t nag; it may be a good idea to sit and talk to him about your concerns about your future together.

Tough situation. I also want to say that dropping him from a class after missing only two classes seems a bit harsh. Is there any way he can contest that decision?

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Re: being dropped from the class, I don't think it's too extreme, especially for a class that meets once a week. But that doesn't really matter.

What does matter Waves, is what you feel. You're uneasy about your boyfriend's current situation. I don't blame you. I also (like Gala) am the type of person who needs to have a common level of education with those I associate with. I will admit however, that having a degree doesn't make one any more knowledgable. It seems you're worried about what can be perceived as your bf's lack of motivation. He's 24, attempting community college for the third time, gets dropped from his only class due to a lack of attendance, knows he's losing his job in February, isn't looking for a new one, and down on himself. What I'm wondering is whether his depression is due to all of these factors, or whether his depression is actually causing them. Obviously no one can control when his position will be cut, but lack of motivation is a symptom of depression. What do you think? Is your boyfriend down in the dumps because things are difficult...or are things difficult because he's suffering from a sort of depression right now and can't find a way to get back on his feet?

Back to you...I think you need to find out what you really want. Do you want to guide him through every event of his life, or do you wish for someone who is more self-sufficient? Would you be happy with your boyfriend if he never earns a degree but succeeds in his career? As other ladies have pointed out, you don't need a degree to be successful. It definitely helps these days and opens up more opportunities, but it isn't necessarily a necessity for those who play their cards right. I hope I'm not being too blunt or hurting your feelings. I'm sure your boyfriend is a great person because if he wasn't, you wouldn't be with him. Please let us know if there's anything else we can do to help!
~M

 

[Nurseynurse]

I was in a similar situation like you, I met my FI when I was a senior in high school ( I''m also 22 years old). He''s 9 years older than me and when I met him he was just working a part-time job at UPS and was not in school. So, I thought it was just a fling or a short-term thing since I was going away for college. Then my dad passed away so I ended up going to CSULB to become a Registered Nurse and conutinued seeing him. It used to bother me that he doesn''t have a college degree because I know he is a smart man. He attended UCI and an engineering major for two years before I met him. Being the nagger that I was I made him go to CSULB with me, that only lasted for a year due to financial restrictions. I felt the same way as you but I still stuck with him because he was supportive, caring, and generous. Fast-forward 5 years later and he was finally called to be a UPS driver and managed to give me a 8K engagement ring. I''ve finally made peace with the fact that he''s probably never going to get a college degree but that doesn''t make him any less of a person or puts myself in the pedestal. In fact, he is way kinder and probably a better person than I ever will be. I think he also has a somewhat low self-esteem bcause he doesn''t have a college degree like your bf. Please just encourage him and him feel worthy.He''s willing to My advice is to ask yourself if he really is the one for you and stick with him. Is he a good person? Is he honest? Does he value your love?

Now, my FI makes as much as I do, even more and he works harder

I could have not picked a better companion. Remember, money gets spent, beauty fades, but a character of a man stays. May you find at peace with the fact that he doesn''t have a college degree and accept your bf for the person that he is.

Sorry, to sound too preachy or sex in the city but I just wanted to share my experience with you.

 

[allycat0303]

Waves044,

Well I guess it depends on how important this issue is. I think that your boyfriend might still be looking around for what he wants to do. My ex went back to college at 23 years old after years of drifting from factory jobs to minimum wage jobs etc. He went back, essentially because I forced him, but once he started there were some hard times but he got through it. After he graduated, he started working, and became very successful, very quickly. So I think even if people get a late start, it doesn''t mean that they won''t end up doing really well for themselves.

I think that not being sure what you want as a career path is much different then just being lazy (I think that''s an important distinction) If you feel that it might just be a maturng process then I think that the best thing to do would be to be encouraging and try to help him consider his options (objectively). Sometimes you love something, but it''s not a viable career, and sometimes you enjoy something and it would make a GREAT career.

I''m not going to tell you that it doesn''t matter because it does. I wouldn''t be able to date someone that worked very hard, but it was a a dead end job. Simply because I''m motivated and ambitious, and it''s hard for me to be with someone that isn''t because I would be very frustrated.

 

[Becky P]

Your story reminds me a bit of my younger brother. My brother is smart as a whip, he can build a computer from scrap parts that he finds on the streets, and yet he nearly failed out of high school. Luckily, my parents forced him (literally) to finish high school. Then, for nearly the entire first year after his graduation, he did nothing but play in those gaming convention things. He was online all afternoon and night and then slept the day way - plus, he had free rent at my mom''s house. Finally, my mom came to her senses and realized that she was enabling him. She told him he needed to start paying rent, utilities, groceries, etc to her. So, he got a job in a factory. Once he started making money, he liked it. Eventually, he got a job at the pizza place in town and worked his way up to manager. So, he was working 2 jobs - the factory and the pizza place. Enter his now fiance, Becky (I know wierd that my name is Becky and my brother is marrying a Becky, but anyway). He met Becky at the pizza place. They started dating, and she was starting college. Still, he wanted to make $$. He worked the night shift at the factory just so he could get doubletime or whatever. And, he worked at that factory for almost 3 total years before he realized that he didn''t want to do manual labor for the rest of his life. BUT, he didn''t want to go to college to just go to college. He wanted to be going for something that he really loved. So, thanks to Becky, who I''m sure spent days and days and hours and hours talking to him, encouraging him, supporting him, he decided that he wanted to go to school to become an architect. Now, he is SO excited about school! And, he NEVER was before. I''m so thankful that she was able to get through to him in a way no one else in our family could because believe me, we all tried. My brother just started at the community college this past August, so he is now finishing up his first semester of classes, and I think he has 3 A''s and 1 B (from the kid who almost failed high school). The nice thing is that the community college allowed him to take some of his "major" courses right away. My brother needed to experience success in his area of interest before taking all the "required" english, math, etc, and now he is more motivated than ever to succeed, get his degree, and get a job that will be able to support his family.

So, sorry about the super long post. But, maybe your boyfriend just hasn''t realized what it is he wants to do with his life. I don''t have any advice or opinion on what you personally should do, but that''s what happened with my brother, and I''m so glad that his fiance was there to help get him to this point. She helped him find his dream so that he could go after it...