... am i nutz?

[kiana]

We''ve both been married once before, and our divorces weren''t pretty. So we''re coming into this a bit jaded, I suppose. We''ve been together over two years, and are so comfortable with each other we''ve never had a fight. We moved in with each other pretty quickly when we got together to save money, and have since nearly doubled our salaries. My work covers domestic partners and my insurance is better than his, so I cover him on my insurance. We have each other as our life insurance beneficiaries, have standard and durable power of attorneys over each other, wills leaving everyting to the other, etc. For all intents and puroposes, we look and act like a married couple.

But we aren''t.

And it bugs me.

He''s older, and his first marriage began with a large diamond, hugely expensive wedding gown, fancy ceremony, etc. Much more than I''d ever want. But my first wedding was at a JP, with no engagement ring and a wedding band from Target, because we couldn''t afford anything else. I don''t want to have a lot of guests at a ceremony, but I want to have a few. I don''t want a two or three caret diamond, but a half-caret would be lovely. I don''t think anything will change once we are married -- but that''s not what I''m after. I just want to be able to say that this wonderful man I was lucky enough to find is my husband.

But every time it''s discussed it feels like he wants to run and hide. And I''m not the kind of person to push the issue, really. If discussing something upsets him, I don''t want to discuss it. I don''t know if it''s because his first wife hurt him so badly, but I can''t help feeling like it''s a fault in me. After all, dangit, I''m not his first wife and he should know that by now. If he is still afraid, does this mean that I''m doing things that make him second-guess the idea of marriage? My rational side says probably not, he''s just scarred and scared. But rationally I shouldn''t want to get a marriage certificate when we''re already practically married, or want to take money that could go to buying us a house to buying a piece of jewelery.

I''m just not very rational about this. And kind of need some moral support.

Thanks.

 

[Alisoun]

I don''t think you''re nuts. My boyfriend has mentioned not getting married a couple of times. His rationale is, "why get married? It''s just a certificate and a social norm; you know I love you regardless. Why should we ascribe to anyone else''s idea of how two committed ppl should live?" etc. Logically this makes sense to me, because I know he''s committed for life and the marriage label won''t necessarily prevent the relationship from disintegrating, if it ever does so...but there''s something about not getting married that''s unsettling. I don''t care of it''s a social norm that''s pressuring me into it or whatnot; I just want to say I''m married. I can''t really offer any advice, but I *completely* understand you.

 

[Mara]

i don''t think you are nuts at all. i think sometimes some people want to do the marriage thing and some people don''t. i don''t know why or what the differences are...i always wanted to get married myself. but i have this girlfriend who was with her boyfriend for 7+ years a few years ago...and they had a baby and didn''t get married. they were just like ''well we are practically already married so why bother, neither of us feels like we need the paper or law involved in our relationship''. anyway, they had another baby...and then they got married after that. she never even told anyone really!! i just knew because i saw her wearing a ring and was like when did you get THAT and she fessed up to me but told me not to tell anyone. i guess people just figured she was wearing a ring for fun or something (people who knew her). anyway i never asked WHY they got married after 2 kids, 10 years and a house purchase between them...but maybe it had to do with having kids, and if something happened to one or both of them, maybe they wanted to ensure the kids were covered somehow, i don''t know the nuances of legalities but i am not sure how it all works. anyway i don''t think they got married because they felt like it would enrich their relationship, i am sure it had to do more with somehow it being legally better for them or their kids (aka maybe they could take more of a tax break or something). it really was just NOT a big deal to them at all. but they both felt that way. i think it''s tough when one person feels one way and another person feels another.

the bottom line is that you are not wrong to feel the way you do and he is not wrong either. so how do you make the two meet? have you sat down and had an actual discussion about it....saying what you told us, that you feel practically married but that you still want that marriage certificate and maybe a small ring? or a band to start with? i think that part of a great relationship is for both partners to recognize what the other wants and to be able to make a compromise if possible, if the other person and their happiness is important to them. he may very well have some serious baggage from his last marriage...but it shouldn''t stop you from at least asking for what you want. and go from there. maybe he will be open to it, maybe not. but you have to decide from there what you want and what you are willing to ''settle'' for.

in any case, communication is key...so i say speak to him about it and then figure out where to go from there. good luck!

 

[ladykemma]

just wait until one of you ends up in the hospital and you're not the "next of kin"... is this reason enough to present to him?

 

[Curls]

I just wanted to add to the above supporting posts. You are not crazy at all to still want to be married!

I am in sort of a similiar situation as far as already feeling married to my boyfriend. We live together, co-own major purchases, we''re each other beneficiaries, but that does not keep me from wanting to officially call him my husband. I don''t feel marriage is necessary for us to keep a strong relationship, but I feel it''s neccessary for us to announce our commitment to others and to have the legal perks. There''s also just some other desire to be married that just isn''t based on logic.

Thankfully he is all for marriage and we''re just waiting to get our finances in order. For your situation, I would just follow the advice listed above and communicate your feelings and thoughts. List the logical reasons why you want to be married to him (legal reasons, etc) but also let him know about the feelings that draw you to the idea. Not everything has to be completely logical for you to want it and find it neccessary.

Good luck!

 

[kiana]

Thanks for all of the support!!!

Agreed completely about the next-of-kin issue. That''s one of my biggest concerns, then again, I''m a worrywart. (I got it honestly, my grandfather was one, too!)

I knew he was the man I wanted to marry before we got together, actually. Everything since then has just confirmed that feeling. He''s never raised his voice to me, never speaks from anger (frustration sometimes, because life is frustrating, but never true anger), and I feel utterly safe in his presence. He''s caring, is there for me when I need him, but not posessive or jealous. We are very, very comfortable in each other''s presence, and still can spend hours talking about anything and nothing, or can sit for hours just in each others presence, completely content reading and perhaps sharing a funny part of a book. We say "I love you" many, many times a day, and it''s not just me who says it first -- it''s about equal, sometimes him more often! After over two years. My first marriage wasn''t that fun either, but I know he is different and would never treat me the way my ex did.

And we''ve had the long talks, negotiating on children (I want many, he wanted only one, but we compromised on two, and he understands I want to start trying before I''m 30 -- and has expressed the fact he doesn''t want to be changing diapers at 40 either), discussing wedding plans (I plan to make my dress, my grandmother taught me to sew, and he knows my preference for a small wedding), even discussing rings. Of course, most of the talks, when he seemed more into them, were over a year ago.

Since then, my mother got married again after being single since she divorced my dad. A little while after we found out my mom got married, he asked me -- and gave a disclaimer that almost hurt, saying it was a strictly hypothetical question -- how long I thought people should be together before they got married. I said "I don''t know, it depends on the couple, but I believe in a rather long engagement, I think about a year." He''d already expressed the fact he didn''t believe in asking a woman to marry a man and then leaving the diamond there for years with no band to go with it -- one of his female friends has been engaged for seven years now.

The last time I brought it up was when he was looking at a job that would require travel. I''m okay with travel, I worked out on the road for three months at one point and it didn''t harm us in the slightest, nor was I ever worried that he''d cheat on me like my ex did. But it was travel to foreign countries, sometimes dangerous ones -- Venezuela was named as one place he''d likely go at some point, and near the borders at that. I said that if he was going to be traveling outside of the EU, North America, or Australia, that I''d want us to be married before he left on an assignment to a country outside of those areas because of the next-of-kin issue. (I ddn''t say it, but the real reason was that if something should happen to him, I would at least want the memory of the wedding to go along with all of the other wonderful memories I would have of him. Again, not quite rational -- why would the ceremony itself be so important? We both know that the piece of paper doesn''t mean the relationship is going to last, or that it will be happy, or that a wedding day will be a perfect memory. But I want him for my husband, and it tore me up to think something might happen to him without me ever being able to call him my husband.)

It flustered him. Badly. He first said he had a timeline in his head that was different... then said that he''d just hurt me if he said why he didn''t want to get married, and that it wasn''t rational so there was no reason to hurt me, and mentioned his ex.

Well, um, okay. I guess I might have deserved that for springing my thoughts on him like that with little warning. But it did hurt me, and hurts me more for him not stating his reasons, because I want him to share his emotions with me, good or bad. And not knowing what his fears are and being left to guess what they might be is torture. And I have to admit, there''s some anger here, too. I know he is not like any of the men I''ve dated before, or I wouldn''t be with him. I know his ex betrayed him horribly. But he''d been fully divorced for three years before we ever met -- they separated five years before we met. If he doesn''t see me as different enough from her to marry me and risk being hurt again ... why is he still with me? Why are we seriously discussing land to purchase together and build a house together, to the point of looking at lots?

... but he''s also been saying he wants to give me a big Christmas present, and this was before the possible job came up, and after his "hypothetical" question. For all I know, he could be trying to "suprise" me. But he says he doesn''t like suprises... and I don''t really like them, either. (If it''s worry about a ring... I found Pricescope because one of my best friends is pregnant and they''re looking for a very reasonably priced ring. But they don''t have Internet access and were floored at the prices in the malls and at the stores in town. As for me, I have tiny hands, and I wear very little jewelery. I would want it to be nothing elaborate or big, and devote that money to getting the downpayment on our house ready. We can always upgrade later if we wanted to, but I don''t anticipate me wanting to. If we''re going to buy a ring, I would rather pick the stone out together online and have my uncle, who is a jeweler and has done some lovely work for the family, set the stone and help us find a white-gold setting with low nickel.)

About the job, it fell through. It was contracting work and the person who was going to recommend him for it got laid off very soon after. (At least, that''s what he told me. If he gave up the job because of what I said I don''t think I''ll ever forgive myself.)

... I''m thinking my best course of action is to back off for awhile. He''s been saving money, but he''s a saver anyway (as am I). And the last thing I want to do is push him into something he doesn''t want -- what good is it if he is unhappy or not fully into the idea? *sigh* Either he''ll ask or he won''t... he knows I want to marry him.

But thanks for letting me vent...

 

[MrsFrk]

You are most certainly not nuts.
My husband and I were together for 8 years before we got married.
I was perfectly content not being married; we had 2 houses together, dogs, cars. The whole kit and caboodle, just not that "piece of paper". I was covered under his insurance as a domestic partner, we had living wills, power of attorney....

...and then he needed surgery.
And the hospital did not give a sh*t (pardon my language) that I was his devoted partner of 8 years and had the legal documents to prove that he wanted ME to make the decisions.
I was the GIRLFRIEND, and his mom and grandmother were treated with great deference, me- not so much.
It scared me, pissed me off, filled me with resolve.

I wanted to get married.

He did not want to. He is deeply scarred by the disintegration of his parents'' marriage, and hence his family. He has never had any problem demonstrating his devotion to me/us. He felt I was overreacting, due to the surgery and my own issues with loss and hospitalizations of loved ones. Valid points, but not the reason.

What it came down to was this: My need to be married was stronger than his fear of it. We agreed to let the issue rest for a few months, to see if as we moved away from his surgery, the desire would disappear.
It didn''t. So we got married, a lovely elopement that we both adored.

Your BF is scarred by the fallout of his first marriage. But does he love you? Your life together? See you growing old together? It would seem so, since you have discussed children. So it comes down to your need versus his need. Your need desire to be his wife, his desire to maintain the status quo. If this is important to you, and he loves you he will marry you. It sounds so trite and simplistic, but if the shoe was on the other foot, wouldn''t you do it for him? He may need some counseling to work thorugh his issues, but they are by no means insurmountable.

This is your happiness at stake: Push him. Make him uncomfortable. You deserve to have an equal voice here.

 

[diamondfan]

I do not think you are nuts to want that last level of committment. Yes, married people break up at an alarming rate. And yes, you can be committed without a wedding ceremony. However, there is a difference, and I think, too, if it is MORE important to you to be married than it is for him NOT to be, then you guys should get married. LIfe is about compromise, seeing the other side, and I just think that it should not be seen as such a big issue if it means that much to you. I get that he was hurt once, but time to get back on the horse...not all relationships are the same. Good luck and keep us posted.