Answering the dreaded question:

[goldenstar]

Don''t you hate when people ask if they''re invited to the wedding? What do I say? I usually end up smiling and saying nothing. Frankly, the answer is most often "No", or at least "Probably not". The people who are being invited are close enough to us that they don''t have to ask, they know that they''ll be there.

I''m just trying not to be definitive with anyone and keeping my fingers crossed that they forget about us by the time the wedding rolls around (in 2009). I don''t know what else to do.

 

[musey]

Since your wedding isn't until 2009, you can get away with skirting the issue easily. Tell them you don't know how small or big a wedding you'll be having, you haven't even thought about the guest list yet, etc. etc.

That's not to say that closer to the wedding you won't get the same pushy questions... so that route won't work forever.

If I ever want to get a gentle "no" across, I tell people that it's very small: family and the closest of friends only. It's stretching the truth a bit... we'll probably round out our guest list at about 85. However, "our choice" list, as in the ones who aren't "of course" invites, is only at 20.

As long as people aren't asking you to be a bridesmaid, or asking the wedding date so they can keep it free, that's an easy way to handle it.


ETA: We opted to throw two very low-key and low-budget "hometown" receptions post-honeymoon (our wedding will be in CA, are hometowns are in IL and WA). The official reason was to give out-of-town guests an easier travel distance to one of the other receptions, if going to the actual wedding would be too much of a strain (financially, time- or other-wise). The actual reason? A backup to invite the "no" people to--and the parental tack-ons that we didn't want sharing our actual "day."

You could possibly modify that for in-town "no" guests... Throw a second "reception" in the form of an open-house when you return from your honeymoon. That way EVERYONE that wants to share in your marital joy, can do so!

 

[Haven]

Musey''s advice is perfect--reply to these rude questions by saying something like "How lovely of you to think of us! You know, we''re having a very small and intimate wedding, but your consideration means so very much, thank you." If they persist, well, they are just too rude to deal with at that point.

I''ve been engaged for two days and my colleagues are already telling me to notify them of the date as soon as possible so they can be sure to stay in town. Ugh! A wedding is a social affair, not a business affair--does nobody keep with tradition anymore?

 

[musey]

Date: 9/10/2007 9:40:43 PM
Author: Haven

I''ve been engaged for two days and my colleagues are already telling me to notify them of the date as soon as possible so they can be sure to stay in town. Ugh! A wedding is a social affair, not a business affair--does nobody keep with tradition anymore?

Unfortunately, that is the tradition for some people! Or with "backsies".... I HATE BACKSIES!!!! FMIL is pretty insistent with that one

 

[BigDiamonds]

Um, what''s a backsie?

I''ve been dodging by just saying that it is going to be very small but we''ll be having an informal reception a few weeks later that will be the main party. I''m with Musey- it''s a great way to lessen the blow for people who aren''t invited.

 

[Harleigh]

Well, we are dealing with the exact same problem...sadly, though, FI somehow managed to make it sound like we would welcome any and ALL family who is willing to take the trek to Hawaii for our nuptials...which, since his parents are each children of 9, is WAY too many people past just our immediate families and a few close friends that we had planned on originally. If you add all the aunts and uncles and the cousins he is close to, it''s going to get way outta hand! That''s not including any of the friends and co-workers who just "assume" they will be invited.

I think FI is going to be shell-shocked when he finds out how much this "little" destination wedding is going to run us and might stop the "Sure, feeel free to join us!" comments! I also like the advice of how to handle the people who want to pencil in the date on their calendars! Ugh!

Best of luck to you!

 

[monarch64]

Right...what''s a backsie???

I dealt with this question as well when we got married, and I also used the "we''re having a smaller wedding and are sticking to a budget but thanks for showing your interest," thing. Most people understood but we had one single guy say "well can I just come to the reception?" My DH gave him a firm "no," and said we just had to stick to the seating arrangement and head count that had already been turned in to the venue and that was that.

 

[somethingshiny]

My husband and I both have large families. Our guest list was 165, and those were all blood related people! So, when others would ask about it, I simply said that our families were just too big to have extra guests. We only invited about a dozen of our closest friends. No work people, no acquaintances. No one seemed to be too upset.

Good Luck.

 

[Pandora II]

I''ve told everyone that we have huge families (we''re both one of four kids - and have loads of relations, so it''s kind of true) and that since my father is paying (mainly true) that they have invited all their friends so we are very limited as we are maxed out at 120 guests.

I made sure I had a good whinge about it in front of work colleagues and the political lot I am elected with (63 of them plus partners is so not going to happen!), and let them know we will be throwing a london party a week later.

We have told those friends who are definitely invited that they will be and held off telling the ones on the B list.

So far no-one has asked anything, but I expect some whinges from my teenage cousins when I say that their latest date can''t come!

 

[Haven]

Date: 9/10/2007 9:43:28 PM
Author: musey

Date: 9/10/2007 9:40:43 PM
Author: Haven

I''ve been engaged for two days and my colleagues are already telling me to notify them of the date as soon as possible so they can be sure to stay in town. Ugh! A wedding is a social affair, not a business affair--does nobody keep with tradition anymore?

Unfortunately, that is the tradition for some people! Or with ''backsies''.... I HATE BACKSIES!!!! FMIL is pretty insistent with that one

Musey--I know all too well that everyone does not follow the traditional wedding guest parameters (we''re already getting rude questions two days in,) I was just referring to who polite society members traditionally include on their guest lists. Of course, weddings were traditionally nothing like the monstrous affairs that they have become today.

I was just trying to assure Goldenstar that she is absolutely correct to omit certain people from her guest list, especially business associates.

And I am also very intrigued by the myserious backsie--what is this? It''s a lovely word, I can''t wait to be able to use it.

Pandora--it sounds like your family''s political ties may be a very difficult thing to wrangle with when you''re making your guest list!

 

[Jas12]

I used the line:

"We would LUV to have had a big wedding and invited all our friends but we had to stick to an intimate affair so the wedding is pretty small" (with a look of regret on my face)

it worked b/c people didn''t necessarily feel stupid for asking, but got the message i think.

 

[musey]

Sorry for leaving a couple of you confused!

Backsies:
FMIL was invited to person X's daughter's wedding, so it's ONLY FAIR that person X should be invited to FMIL's son's wedding. I mean, OBVIOUSLY. Bride and groom may or may not (usually the latter) have ever met person X.


In our case, FMIL even offered to pay for person X and her husband's seats. It took a while to convince her that the money wasn't the point.

ETA: Backsies can also be applied to the wedding party (person B had me as a bridesmaid, I guess I'll have to ask her to be one in my wedding), readings (my brother had my do a reading at his ceremony, I'll ask him to do one at mine), etc.

 

[musey]

Date: 9/11/2007 10:17:36 AM
Author: Haven

Musey--I know all too well that everyone does not follow the traditional wedding guest parameters (we''re already getting rude questions two days in,) I was just referring to who polite society members traditionally include on their guest lists. Of course, weddings were traditionally nothing like the monstrous affairs that they have become today.

Actually, that''s who I was referring to, as well! I think we''re using different definitions of "tradition," though (it depends on how far back you reach to find "original tradition," if there is such a thing). I was talking about how many people invite coworkers, business associates, etc. in order to include their wedding in the "networking opportunity" umbrella. This applies more to parents who are paying for the wedding, and control the guest list, and often more to "high society" than us normal folk. A lot of the weddings around here would be very small were it not for the tacked-on business acquaintances.

Sumbride may have an opinion on that issue

This is part of the motivation for separate receptions--our in-laws wanted to invite every business associate they have! We told them to invite them to the hometwon reception--that they''re paying for

 

[Haven]

Date: 9/11/2007 11:44:11 AM
Author: musey

Date: 9/11/2007 10:17:36 AM
Author: Haven

Musey--I know all too well that everyone does not follow the traditional wedding guest parameters (we''re already getting rude questions two days in,) I was just referring to who polite society members traditionally include on their guest lists. Of course, weddings were traditionally nothing like the monstrous affairs that they have become today.

Actually, that''s who I was referring to, as well! I think we''re using different definitions of ''tradition,'' though (it depends on how far back you reach to find ''original tradition,'' if there is such a thing). I was talking about how many people invite coworkers, business associates, etc. in order to include their wedding in the ''networking opportunity'' umbrella. This applies more to parents who are paying for the wedding, and control the guest list, and often more to ''high society'' than us normal folk. A lot of the weddings around here would be very small were it not for the tacked-on business acquaintances.

Sumbride may have an opinion on that issue

This is part of the motivation for separate receptions--our in-laws wanted to invite every business associate they have! We told them to invite them to the hometwon reception--that they''re paying for

Musey--I must respectfully disagree.

It sounds like your defining traditional in more modern terms, which is of course a bit of a contradiction.

When I say traditionally, I''m referring strictly to formal etiquette as defined by generations of socially active families and archived by Miss Emily Post, and also so stylishly brought to the mainstream population by our own dear Miss Manners, Miss Judith Martin and of course Miss Laetitia Baldridge, to name a few.

The networking opportunity to which you are referring is something quite different than what polite society would ever expect of a traditional, formal wedding; it is more of a parade of ostentation put on by those who seem to feel they have something to prove or somewhere higher to move on a particular professional ladder. That''s not to say that this is incorrect, and far be it for anyone to say who a couple should invite to their wedding.

However, tradition is not up for discussion--there is a protocol for all things social, especially weddings, and the modern practice of turning the affair into a grand event (with the bride masquerading around in a debutante gown, on top of it!) does not change the fact that traditionally, weddings are very different affairs than the mainstream media would have you believe they are today.

As far as "high society" versus "normal folk" are concerned--I think you have it backwards. Not that style, class, or manners can be bought anyway, however a true high society family will have already established a social relationship with any individuals whom they perceive to be important enough to include on a wedding invite--one does not wait for one''s child to get married in order to forge an important professional relationship, after all.

I love all of your posts and ideas, Musey, so PLEASE don''t misinterpret any of the above in an emotional manner--it''s quite the contrary. I think you are fabulous, and you always have something kind to say, or interesting to share. It''s just that I can''t pass up an opportunity to discuss a topic that is very dear to my heart--etiquette, tradition, manners, the whole package. I''ve spent much of my academic career studying the history of etiquette and protocol, and I suppose over the years it turned into something I learned to love discussing.

 

[Haven]

Oooh--I missed the definition of backsies, what an important and useful word! I am dealing with this issue myself as far as my wedding party is concerned--I have been a bridesmaid in so many weddings, I couldn''t possibly include all of the girls in my own, and I certainly don''t have the same relationship with many of them today. Backsies, I love it!

 

[musey]

ETA: To preface my points... I'm using the layman's definition of "tradition," not the anthropological definition. I know that most of us non-anthropologists use "tradition" in place of "practice," and the former is more meaningful to the masses if not entirely accurately used. As a sidenote, I always try to post in layman's terms even if I know the academic terms, since most of the people here (posters as well as lurkers) wouldn't connect with academic terms.


I didn't major in anything related to etiquette, so anything I post on that is just from personal experience--and in MY OWN personal experience, I have seen many, many people invite colleagues (whether of the bride and groom or of their parents) to their wedding in order to bring those people IN to their social circles.

Whether or not it meets the academic definition of "tradition" is a moot point. Tradition, for me, is anything that I have come to view as such--not what is defined by history on the regional, national or international scale--and I would tend to think that most people view it in the same way, whether that's academically "correct" or not. Honestly, I think that "tradition" is up for discussion, as it very obviously varies from one group to the next... or one person to the next, for that matter.

For example, every year at Christmastime, it's our family tradition to host a holiday party for all of my dad's work colleagues at our home. My father's father did this as well with his family, which is where this tradition came from. This is by no means a tradition for every person in the US, or for my region of origin, for that matter. But it *IS* a tradition for my family.

Likewise, in many social circles it *IS* a tradition to invite one's work colleagues and higher ups, in the hopes that that may bring those important people in to their own social circle. It doesn't really matter if it's a dearly held American tradition to do so. All that matters in this case is what is a "tradition" to any given person, family, or social group.


EagainTA: I wasn't at all trying to start a debate on this issue as it's pretty off-topic to the OP's question, but I find it very difficult not to defend my own standpoints, especially when I feel I've been misunderstood! Short responses didn't seem to be cutting it in this thread. So, sorry for the loooong OT post, Goldenstar!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 9/11/2007 10:17:36 AM
Author: Haven

Pandora--it sounds like your family''s political ties may be a very difficult thing to wrangle with when you''re making your guest list!

Ah, it''s me who is the politician, not my family - so it''s my decision. I''ve invited my closest collegues, but not all the others - hence the dire need for the London party!

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 9/10/2007 9:43:28 PM
Author: musey

Date: 9/10/2007 9:40:43 PM
Author: Haven

I''ve been engaged for two days and my colleagues are already telling me to notify them of the date as soon as possible so they can be sure to stay in town. Ugh! A wedding is a social affair, not a business affair--does nobody keep with tradition anymore?

Unfortunately, that is the tradition for some people! Or with ''backsies''.... I HATE BACKSIES!!!! FMIL is pretty insistent with that one

Musey, I''m assuming by "backsie" you mean giving something or saying something to someone and then taking it back, right?

 

[zoebartlett]

So people are really asking you if they''re going to be invited to a wedding that it over a year away??? Wow!

 

[goldenstar]

Date: 9/11/2007 8:36:11 PM
Author: zoebartlett
So people are really asking you if they''re going to be invited to a wedding that it over a year away??? Wow!

Yes they are.

 

[musey]

Zoe,

Date: 9/11/2007 11:33:07 AM
Author: musey

Backsies:

FMIL was invited to person X''s daughter''s wedding, so it''s ONLY FAIR that person X should be invited to FMIL''s son''s wedding. I mean, OBVIOUSLY. Bride and groom may or may not (usually the latter) have ever met person X.

 

[zoebartlett]

Duh. Thanks Musey. I''m not sure why I wrote that before finishing reading the thread. Boy, I''m tired...time for bed.

 

[Haven]

Oh, dear--it seems that I am the one who has been misunderstood here, Musey. After my original post referring to tradition it was you who challened my reference to tradition, so in fact I was just trying to clarify my point.

None of it really matters, although it isn''t about academic vs. personal experience. I was simply trying to give some advice as was asked, and when I saw that it was being taken wrong, I wanted to clarify.

And as always, please do not get heated up about any of this--we are exchanging information here, and it seems that in this instance we simply have a clash of perspective. It''s hard for me to resist the bait of what you said about tradition varying from one person to another (wouldn''t that defy tradition?), but I will respectfully bow out now.

Goldenstar--I do hope that you don''t run into any more experiences with inconsiderate people who solicit invites, and if you do, don''t feel badly about deflecting the issue.
Enjoy your wedding planning.

 

[musey]

Date: 9/11/2007 10:16:18 PM
Author: Haven
Oh, dear--it seems that I am the one who has been misunderstood here, Musey. After my original post referring to tradition it was you who challened my reference to tradition, so in fact I was just trying to clarify my point.

None of it really matters, although it isn't about academic vs. personal experience. I was simply trying to give some advice as was asked, and when I saw that it was being taken wrong, I wanted to clarify.

And as always, please do not get heated up about any of this--we are exchanging information here, and it seems that in this instance we simply have a clash of perspective. It's hard for me to resist the bait of what you said about tradition varying from one person to another (wouldn't that defy tradition?), but I will respectfully bow out now.

I didn't!

And there's no reason to "bow out," this forum is just as much an arena for exchanging ideas as anything else. You told me not to take it personally, which I didn't at all. However, a poster cannot say to "not take something personally" and then assume, if there is a response/rebuttle, that they have. You were clarifying your viewpoint, and I mine! After the many heated threads I've seen on here, I'm surprised that you viewed my post in that way

A difference in opinion should not be automatically taken as a challenge, and my opinion is that it really isn't fair to say that any one "tradition" takes precedence over another, which was my point (as we should continue keep this forum an open and welcoming arena to all people of all cultural backgrounds). Honestly, it's impossible to define tradition as any one set of norms and values. My idea of "tradition" will certainly not line up with someone's who is from India/China/Ireland/etc., and there's no "defiance" of the nature tradition in that. There is not one set of traditions that applies to the world-over, and I am surprised that you wouldn't already feel that way after studying the field (anthropology, I assume?).

Moreover, just because my traditions don't line up with those people from different regions and cultures, it does not make their own traditions any less valid.

We should keep an open mind and open ears to everyone's experience and traditions, even if they don't fit into our own experience (and in your case, academic study). My "argument" (if you can call it that!) was only written with the intention of reminding people of that... everyone's cultural norms are every bit as valid as the next person's, and should be respected as such.

 

[Haven]

Okay, well, I suppose I won't bow out.

Musey--I'm happy to hear that you did not take any of this discussion personally, I must have misread the tone of your response, and I apologize.

I understand that a difference of opinion is not a challenge, in fact, I think differing opinions are the most vital thing for a community to embrace--how can we progress (as individuals or as a society) if we all think the same?

I'm not sure what you read in my posts that makes you believe that I value any one tradition over another, or that I have a lack of respect for any one tradition, or worse, that I do not have an open mind. This concerns me, as this was certainly not the point. I was simply doing the same thing as you--trying to explain my original comment, which I did after you responded with a comment that told me that you misinterpreted what I had written. If you refer back to my posts I'm confident that you'll see no signs of disrespect, closed-mindedness, or judgment.

As far as my academic study, it sounds like a did a poor job of communicating this point, as well. I have several degrees in literature, and my focus was always on literature as a historiography of American etiquette and tradition, which was really just my way of incorporating my personal interests into my studies.

Anyway, there is not one thing in your last post with which I disagree, except for the insinuation that I was being disrespectful and closed-minded. Other than that, I am in exact agreement with every single word. It sounds like we share the same ideas, and perhaps the issue is simply one of miscommunication.

ETA: I said it earlier, but I truly do enjoy reading all of your posts, Musey, so please don't regard this banter as anything but friendly.

 

[musey]

My point has always been that tradition varies from person to person. That is the exact thing that you disagreed with, saying that tradition being different between one person and another was actually in defiance of tradition. That's what I read in your posts that made me think you value one tradition over another, in addition to the disagreement with it being "tradition" for some people to invite work associates, etc. (as for some people, it IS, and saying otherwise would be invalidating their own system of tradition) ...Which was what led me to expand in the "respecting other cultures" direction, to remind us that yes, there are different traditions that will be found in one person's history, but not another's.

I understood that you were referencing British and American etiquette leaders for your definition of "tradition," but again, their ideas apply only to their own cultural group--not the rest of the world.

I hope that makes my motivations more clear!

I'm glad that we're in agreement, though I'm not sure how!

Pie, anyone? (I know we're not at that status, but I saw this SCRUM-diddly-umptious picture on a recipe this morning and sooo wanted to make use of it!!!!!!)

 

[Haven]

Okay, when I said that if something varies from person to person that defies tradition, I was speaking semantically, as in: if something is so varied, then how could we call it "tradition" in the general sense without qualifying it by saying "personal" or "family" tradition? I understand that families have different traditions, of course they do, this is something that need not be explained, and my stating that "tradition" calls for this or that does not inehrently exclude the notion that a family can have its own particular tradition as well.

I still think it''s unfair for you (or anyone) to take liberties with another person''s posts and insinuate that the person is being closed-minded, invalidating others'' ideas, or disrespectful when no such thing is even alluded to in the original poster''s writing. I did not and would not discount another person''s ideas or beliefs, and I still do not see how anything in my writing could be misconstrued as so, which is why I keep coming back on here to be sure that this point is very clear. You still seem to believe that I did, however, but that is something I can live with.

Alas, this has become so watered down that I''m not quite sure how my small reference to tradition turned into such a long discourse between the two of us. I do know that I need to stop using my passing periods to log on to PS to be sure I''m not being accused of being vile things such as disrespectful or close-minded. This was really the part that baffles and bothers me, even if ever so slightly.

I don''t understand the pie reference--humble pie? Whatever it is, that picture is making me hungry enough to go eat some cafeteria food before my proper lunch break.

It was nice chatting with you Musey, I''m glad we could do so in a civil manner, because tone is so easy to misinterpret in writing. Thanks for the chat!

Goldenstar--Again, so very sorry to take over your thread.

 

[musey]

No, I understand now (and before my last post) that you meant no disrespect, but I was trying to explain why it seemed that way.

The pie reference is to lemon pie, a PS tradition (

) for when people start talking in circles, not understanding each other, and often (though not in this case) getting heated. It originally was meant to diffuse tension in threads that get out of hand, but now many of us just try to find excuses to post nummy-looking pictures! I''m sure you''ll see it around here elsewhere in the future, and in older threads

 

[Haven]

Aaaah, the pie makes sense now. Come to think of it, I believe I have seen pie references in a few posts before, and I was probably just as confused then as I am now. Thank you for filling me in (pun intended!) on a PS tradition, I feel like I''m part of the club now.

I appreciate your comments about how my posts can be misunderstood as being disrespectful, and please (everyone) accept this as an apology if they came across that way.

Okay, Musey, now you really must stop distracting me with your intriguing posts--I have kids to teach!

 

[aljdewey]

Goldenstar.....with your wedding so far away, I think the best thing to say when people ask if they are invited would be "with our wedding being so far into the future, we haven''t felt an urgency to get a guest list finalized yet."

As it gets closer, it''s fair to say "we''re pretty sure our wedding will be around "x" number of people, but we''re still trying to work out how many family members we need to consider."

When you''re within a closer time (6 mos or so) of the wedding, then it could change to "After we allocated for family members, guests of moms, etc., we found we had to trim the friends/acquaintences list back in order to stay within our number."