Any science graduate students?

[snow_happy]

Hi everyone,

This is WAY off topic but I need some advice. Before yesterday I was pursuing a career in science and going for my PhD. We got one of the midterms back in my class and it just furthered a streak of poor performance in my classes. It''s not that I''m not trying... I work really hard! but I just don''t seem to be grasping the concepts I suppose? I really feel like there is a natural level of intelligence in ADDITION to hard work that makes a good scientist.. and well.. maybe I just don''t have that level of intelligence. I can only be truthful to myself right? I feel like I''ve been sprinting, everyone else has been jogging, and I still can''t keep up. Should I just admit defeat, finish my masters and leave? Science is the only job I have truly loved but the only job in which I don''t feel like I am succeeding.

I guess I just wanted to know if anyone else pursuing or have received their degrees have ever felt this way.

Thanks

 

[AmberGretchen]

Hey snow - I can relate, I am a first-year graduate student in science at a very difficult program, and I definitely felt that way for a lot of last quarter. I think its important to keep a few things in mind (also to keep in mind while reading these few things that they are just my advice):

1. Classes are not the most important thing, research is. Ultimately, no one will really care very much how you did in your graduate school classes, much more important is your work in the lab, which takes a related, but very different set of skills.

2. You may not be doing as badly as you think you are - I didn''t do very well on my first midterm (the only one I had last quarter), and felt pretty stumped by my finals, and somehow I managed to scrape A''s in both my graded classes last quarter.

3. I think that what you said indicates that you have what I think are the two most important qualities in a scientist - you work hard, and you enjoy it. Ultimately, science involves a lot of luck however smart you are to start with, and I think that those that work hard and are enthusiastic about what they do often end up doing the best. I think that in some sense the whol PhD thing is a kind of weeding out process for people who have these qualities, because without them, the ridiculous amount of work involved isn''t something that people are able to do.

Bottom line is, I wouldn''t stress to much about your performance in class, I would focus more on your performance in lab, and it sounds like you already have the most important qualities for lab work. Yes, innate intelligence is important, but I suspect that if you got into a good graduate school you have that already. Don''t give up - if this is realyl what you want to do, it will be worth it top slog through this miserable part. I even have friends who are in their 3rd year of my program who tell you that the whole point of a lot of these things is to just remind you how much you don''t know

So really I would try to just keep reminding yourself that there is a reason you got into graduate school in the first place, and that in the end, your ability to work hard and your enthusiasm for science are the most important things

 

[allycat0303]

Hello Snow!

I''m sorry that you are having a hard time. I did my master''s degree in Biology. The program in Canada might be different then the US, so I can tell you my view. Here in Canada, for a masters and phD program, there are only 6 classes total (the rest is the research thesis). In addition, you pay tuition for a master''s degree (about 5000$ a year) but your supervisor/ grant HAS to pay you about 27 000$ per year to do your master''s. So it''s really hard to get into a master''s/ PhD program because of limited funding. No funding- no graduate work in science. You can''t just not be paid (very stupid). I was offered a phD position when I finished my master''s but I turned it down. I did excellent in my classes, but in Canada it is a matter of "Can you get into a grad program with funding," In that case, I would say "If you manage to get accepted, then go for it."

If your question is "I will definitely be accepted in a PhD program, should I continue even though I am having a hard time?," then ABSOLUTELY. If you are a good researcher that is all that matters. It doesn''t matter if you are having a hard time, it might not be your subject matter! I can''t do physics in any shape or form. Is it a science? Yes. Does it mean I can''t do science? Of course not. You can do this, just get through you courses. Don''t get too stressed about it. You can be a brilliant researcher even if you didn''t do well in one or two classes. HUGS!

 

[wcitygirl]

Snow ~

I can definitely relate to the hard work, but not quite understanding the concepts thing (even though I''m not in a graduate program or even in the sciences anymore). I was premed and the program I was in was extremely competitve (they had a med school placement rate of 98% and those who made it through felt like med school was easier). I studied SO HARD and got tutoring help and got help from my professors, etc., but I was never quite comfortable with the concepts and subsequently didn''t do well in the classes. I ended up quitting the program and I probably shouldn''t have. It wasn''t just me who was struggling (even though I thought it was). So, moral of the story, is a) you''re probably not donig as bad as you think you are and b) don''t give up! It will get better! I think had I just stuck it out, I would have been fine.

I''m sure you have plenty of smarts!

Keep it up!

 

[JCJD]

I think at some point in every graduate student''s life, there comes the realization/supposition that your advisor didn''t realize just how stupid you really are when they accepted you!!

I''m a 2nd year PhD student in bio, so I completely understand where you''re coming from!!! Not to sound cheesy or anything, but I think this is a really important realization, because those who believe they are perfect in every way will never try to improve. This is true of everything in life, I think, from being a girlfriend, to being a friend, to your job, to school, to taking care of your pets... Don''t get down on yourself!! You were accepted to graduate school, which means you DO have that "natural level of intelligence"! And the fact that science is the only job you truly love tells me that you have a passion and drive for your work! This is the key to success in science, not simply intellect.

I absolutely agree with Amber - research is the most important thing in grad school (for the sciences). My advisor doesn''t care what grades I get, so long as I pass them (B letter grade and above). He also told me during my interview that no student has been kicked out of grad school here simply because they did poorly in classes. The students who were kicked out "because of bad grades" also did not contribute to their lab and weren''t motivated in their research.

Here''s a little story that I think will help cheer you up - it cheers me up when I''m feeling down!
My advisor, who is a highly accomplished and well published scientist, flunked his first year of college. I mean, truly, nothing higher than a C, FLUNKED his first year of college! He luckily figured out what he wanted to do the next semester, got involved in research, applied to grad school and was accepted into Harlow''s lab (VERY influential psychologist). Now, he''s a full professor at a major research university, has 2 grad students, 1 post-doc, 3 full-time technicians, countless undergraduate research assistants, 1 undergraduate honors fellow, a research professor working "under" him, and he''s just been offered the department chair position. So you see, grades truly don''t matter if you''ve got the drive, the motivation, and the passion that working in science requires, which I think you do! Don''t worry too much - I think everyone who ends up doing well as a scientist feels like this at least once in their career!

 

[elepri]

Are you in a PhD program already? Or are you getting a terminal master''s and then applying for your PhD? If it''s the former, you must''ve done something right to get in, right? If they accepted you, they thought your college grades, research experience, and GRE scores qualified you for the program. Don''t let one (or two) bad class discourage you. I almost dropped out of my PhD program the first year because i had so much trouble with stats. But it gets easier. And honestly, in a couple of years, the focus will not be on your grades but on the research you''re doing. Just hang in there.

 

[rms]

Date: 3/1/2005 10:58:25 AM
Author:snow_happy
Hi everyone,

Science is the only job I have truly loved but the only job in which I don''t feel like I am succeeding.

snow_happy,
I agree with what everyone is saying. I can definitely tell you that I felt exactly like you when I got to grad school for engineering. I did VERY WELL in high school and undergrad, barely had to lift up a book ever. I got into one of the top engineering grad schools in my field and had every intention of doing my Ph.D. THEN, grad school itself was sooooo difficult for me. All of a sudden it wasn''t a walk in the park at all. What a blow. After talking to lots of people, I began to realize that my placement on the bell curve had to land somewhere and it just wasn''t at the very top compared to my peers in grad school. But the other thing for me was that whatever passion I might have had before, I totally did not have. The concepts did not come naturally at all either. Especially every time I had to think about equations, I avoided it as long as I could...hehe. I knew that I could do it all if I put my mind to it, but that lack of passion/interest made it even that much more difficult for me.

You on the other hand have just stated that you love what you are doing!!! That is a gift!! So don''t worry and keep on doing what you are doing. I 100% agree that research is the most important part of the work in grad school.

 

[flopkins]

snow_happy -

as with everyone else above, I agree that research is the focus of a phD, and if you love what you are doing in the lab, then by all means go for it!

on the other hand, my old roommate dropped out of my program with a masters after 2 yrs, because she was have a SUPER hard time w/the coursework (she was pulling Cs, Ds on the generous graduate student curve) and didn''t like the research she was doing either... and now she is working at a great company and enjoys it! this isn''t to say that you are in the same boat, but from your post it reminded me a lot of how my roommate sounded when she was struggling through her classes...

in the end it is your decision whether you think that you want to stick it out, or get out and find something you enjoy more, that still has something to do with science!


just so ya know, i''m a 3rd year grad student in bioengineering...