Anybody cutting customers' rough?

[evergreen]

Hi, lovely PSers! My husband and I went gem-hunting at a San Diego county mine recently, and found some little pieces of tourmaline that might be cut- and set-able. (I don't know much about what rough makes a good cut stone... bigger and clearer the better, obviously, but that's not what I need help with.) The value of these gems is far more likely to be sentimental than monetary, but as they are (raw and lumpy) they're not much use.

So, we'd like to, for example, pay a lapidary an amount to evaluate the stones critically so he could decide whether he'd be willing to cut them, then discuss a price for him to (try to) cut them, if any were worthy. I do understand, and expect that, just the cost for cutting the stones could be as much as, or more than, the cost of small already-cut tourmaline.

Do you know of any cutters who accept customers' rough? Any leads I could chase down? Or... any creative suggestions for using uncuttable rough?

Thanks in advance!

 

[minousbijoux]

There are a few who come to mind that you should look into. One is Daniel Stair. Another is Jerry Newman of Gemart services. There are others, but it would probably be best for you to start with them and go from there. Their relevant info can be found at the top of this page in the pinned thread on vendors.

Btw, sounds pretty cool not to mention romantic to end up with special stones that you found together

 

[chrono]

Just a heads up that the final size of your raw and lumpy rough could be as little as 20% to 25% of the original size in the best case scenario. If not facetable, I would have the jeweller wire wrap the rough as a pendant or even consider cabbing them.

 

[evergreen]

Minous, thanks for the suggestions! I'll get in touch with them.

I appreciate the reality check, Chrono -- I think our biggest piece (which looks quite clear inside and from all angles, it's sort of a calm yellow with a partial pink rim) is about a cubic centimeter, so perhaps 15 carats, and definitely the most likely to yield something usable. Everything else is substantially smaller... maybe even too small to wire-wrap. Cabs are a great idea for the bits that are pretty but included. Do people ever rose-cut tourmaline?

Here's a photo! Obviously, it's missing a way to estimate depth (and I've mostly put the pieces on their sides for stability, so you can assume the Z-axis is shorter than X or Y for all of the stones), and there's a mm scale on the bottom. I've wet the stones so they look nicer. Some are quite dark and/or have a closed C-axis so look black here.

Fundamentally, we had a very nice time and I hope we can get a small piece of jewelry made to remember it by! I used to LOVE gem-panning as a kid, and there are pounds of rocks (some maybe gemmy, but mostly gravel) tucked away in my parents' basement. If I can convince someone to attempt cutting these stones, it sounds like a better end for them than gathering dust!

 

[chrono]

Ooh, a watermelon tourmaline! I love those and would just polish it up a little, not facet it, then set it as a beautiful pendant. I would never cut away the pink rim.

 

[minousbijoux]

Wow, it really does look like you have some lovely mementos. The watermelon is beautiful.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

I really know nothing nothing nothing about cutting rough. But since its fun to speculate...I would guess the baby pink is the best shape and light enough in color to yield something of a nice size and color. Some of the cutters mentioned (and others) will evaluate your stone for free before deciding whether its worth cutting--so its worth exploring for the cost of shipping, IMO. How fun to have dug up your own rough!

 

[Jim Rentfrow]

Its exceptionally hard, if not impossible, to judge the quality of the rough from pictures. That being said, the bottom two on the right look like the best bet. The others are very dark in tone and have many cracks and inclusions.

 

[evergreen]

Jim, that's what we figured; probably not much in there. We're going to send them to Jerry Newman for his opinion, and since we're not looking for resellable pieces, I'll try to encourage him to be liberal about which to try to cut... inclusions schminclusions. I think I'd rather have enough stones to make a little random-looking piece (pendant, ring) than have them be perfect.

Chrono and Minous, I'm wracked with guilt since you both said such nice things about the watermelon, but they are really not my cup of tea. It looks the most facetable... too bad there couldn't have been two of 'em.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Jim still cuts others' rough too, for any lurkers...see his site.

 

[chrono]

Do let us know what Jerry thinks as I am curious about his recommendation. In terms of the watermelon, keeping the pink rim on will have greater value than cutting it away, as an FYI. It is also a very unique piece and will catch the eye more than a regular dark tourmaline. Please, please don't cut away the beautiful rim.

 

[evergreen]

Heard back from Jerry today!

Bottom line on the stones…The larger bi-color is clean enough to make it worthwhile to cut in my opinion. It weighs 16.48 ct. There is a crack at the interface of the pink zone, so what is facetable is the near colorless interior of the crystal. I would call it achroite, the colorless variety of tourmaline. It should make a decent ~8 mm square or round….your preference. It could be close to 4 ct finished. It is an unusual color for tourmaline and therefore interesting.

There are only two others which I think remotely could be faceted, but only for sentimental, or personal reasons. They are really marginal and I normally wouldn’t cut them, but if someone really wanted one or both cut because that person actually dug it from the ground, and is attached to it, then perhaps it might be worthwhile.

These two stones are the other dominant pink and the small indicolite crystal.

The pink is weighs 7.41 ct and might yield ~ 1.25 ct 5 mm round, however it won’t be entirely gemmy. It looks a little ”sleepy” to me so won’t show pink tourmaline at it’s best.

The indicolite crystal only weighs 2.5 ct and is very small. It could come close to ~ 4.25 x 3.25 mm rectangle and will weigh less than 0.5 ct. Hardly a significant stone. It won’t be clean, but some people really like indicolite.

As indicated, one stone seems quite worthwhile, while two others are marginal at best. Only you can determine whether it would be “worth it” to invest in the two smaller ones.

Hee hee. He's working really hard to keep the "woah, crazy lady" out of his email-voice, don't you think? Yes, I am sentimental about all this -- or, actually, just very badly want to DO something with these stones. And then maybe never go gem panning again, since it is EXPENSIVE when you start to be all crazy-lady about it.

I'm trying to talk him into rose-cutting or briolette'ing one of the greens... then I might have a pink, a colorless (ish), an indicolite, and a green to play with!

But, I'm afraid the watermelon is going to lose its rim. See, the inside is "interesting"! Maybe someday I'll find a real watermelon and then I'll preserve it beautifully like those examples you posted, Chrono. For now, I'm happy to have something for Jerry to cut where he isn't rolling his eyes the whole time he's cutting it.

 

[chrono]

Do keep us posted as I love to see the before vs after process.

 

[gsellis]

On the dark ones, remember that if they are not badly fractured, faceting is not the only way to create a gem. You might have something that can be cabbed.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

cool! Looking forward to seeing a colorless tourmaline.

 

[evergreen]

Jerry, with great kindness and patience, cut my poor lumpy rough into 4 lovely stones!

We have a 2.71 ct Yellow 8.2 mm Roundtril
.64 ct Pink 5 mm Standard Round Brill w/Apex crown
.98 ct Brownish/yellow 5.4 mm Square Cushion
.66 ct Indicolite(too dark) 5.3 x 3.9 mm rect.*

* This one popped off a piece near a corner when final polishing so I cut a
few extra facets to kind-of match for symmetry. Just too many flaws for
good integrity

Even though it was rough only the-person-who-dug-it-out-of-the-mud could love, I'm thrilled that Jerry was willing to work with it and very excited to see the stones in person! Will certainly post more pictures once I take some of my own, and try to match up the rough with the cut stone (esp. the brownish/greenish one and the indicolite) so all can see what resulted from which piece.


Jerry has given me a tip on a mine to try sometime in the future which might produce better rough... like, maybe in six months when I could get a long weekend off...! But that's partly why I was motivated to cut this rough, since it's not clear to me when I'll get a chance to dig more!

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Neat! The pink looks especially lovely...any setting plans?

 

[katharath]

This is so cool, I love seeing how your gems have progressed to this point. Look forward to seeing how you set them, too. The indicolite does look pretty dark but I'm one of those people who love indicolite, so I think that one is very neat!

 

[royalstarrynight]

Sounds like a wickedly cool experience! What was his type for mining cleaner rough? Or was it just changing mines all together?

 

[periwinklegirl]

Congratulations! How cool to have something cut that you found yourself!

Reminds of the Gem Mountain mine where you can order buckets of gravel to sift though and find sapphires!

 

[Quennoo]

Looks like Jerry did a great job!! He recently cut some Montana sapphire,rough for me into a beautiful 7.1mm fancy round. It is his newest design 'Rountril Domed' which he has also cut for you! I have yet to hold the stone in my hand so I can't wait to see it!
The pictures below are the rough and finished stone!

 

[meredeth11]

Looks like Jerry did a great job!! He recently cut some Montana sapphire,rough for me into a beautiful 7.1mm fancy round. It is his newest design 'Rountril Domed' which he has also cut for you! I have yet to hold the stone in my hand so I can't wait to see it!
The pictures below are the rough and finished stone!

Wow,it is fantastic!!! Jerry, you really have done a good job

 

[chrono]

Evergreen,
I'm so glad it worked out very well for you. I did not expect 4 stones of such reasonable size and colour.

Quenoo,
Awesome gems. They look 10x better once faceted!

 

[minousbijoux]

Evergreen,
I'm so glad it worked out very well for you. I did not expect 4 stones of such reasonable size and colour.

Quenoo,
Awesome gems. They look 10x better once faceted!

Agree completely! Can't believe that rough produced such beautiful cut stones. But then again, Jerry has amazing talent.

Evergreen, can't wait for the photos...

 

[evergreen]

Corundum, think the pink looks like the star from that picture, too; that ballerina pink is so appealing! No setting plans yet, looking forward to playing with them to see what shakes out

Thanks, katharath! I wish there had been a slightly lighter indicolite to cut -- they're my favorite of all the shades I'd found that day -- but maybe it'll brighten up in a very open setting... Fingers crossed.

Royal, it was to switch mines entirely. Jerry suggested the mining practices at Oceanview favor the digger a bit more than the mine I'd gone to. Oceanview had been my first choice, actually, but they're a little less flexible (i.e. reservations required, must arrive at a certain time, etc.), which didn't work with the time we had. So, if I get a chance, I'll try there next!

Periwinkle, I'm going to try to get my husband interested in this. I foresee a glorious gem-grubbing road trip! Montana sapphires, Oregon sunstone, North Carolina emeralds... where else? Whee!

Quennoo, gorgeous. I LOVE the zoning in the yellow/green one!

Chrono, meredeth, [b}minous[/b], thank you! More pictures on the way -- keep your fingers crossed for maximal postal service haste!

 

[evergreen]

Well, massive props to Jerry for cutting my rough. I've got a better appreciation for just how lucky we are to be able to buy a gorgeous, clean, faceted tourmaline for a couple hundred bucks, because my new little tourmalines (while beautifully cut!) are not the flashy fancypants stones one sees on the market! They are shy and imperfect and nonetheless I'm really thrilled to have them. I took some photos in filtered sunlight (i.e. through a window screen and a bit of fog, but it's the best San Francisco has had to offer lately) and then one or two in indirect light by a north-facing window (in the last group shot).

So! 2.71 ct yellow(yellow/green? ish?) 8.2 mm Roundtril, which is a really awesome cut. There are plenty of interesting inclusions in this stone, and I'm not even sure what to call the color, let alone what metal it would look best with if/when I set it. Is there too much color to truly call it "achroic" at this point? I'm not sure I've seen another tourmaline like it, though maybe that's just because they don't really make it to cutters.



0.64 ct pink 5 mm standard round brill w/Apex crown, which is probably the only universally appealing stone of the bunch, even if it is also quite included. The pointed table is fascinating! And the color is a very satisfying light pink.



0.66 ct indicolite 5.3 x 3.9 mm rectangle-ish (this is the one that chipped during polishing so it's technically a hexagon). I won't beat around the bush, this one isn't just "difficult to photograph", it's unpredictable. When placed on its table, it's a pretty dark teal shade, but I just can't catch it in such a way from top-down that will really show its color. Possibly a closed c-axis makes it behave this way?



0.98 ct olive green 5.4 mm square cushion, with some neat reddish-brown color zoning near the edges that gives off a firey red spark now and then. This one surprised me with how interesting it is, probably because of the zoning. It's the one that lends itself most readily to creative setting ideas... unfortunately, they're all in rustically-forged high-carat gold in my head, and the budget for that might be a long time in coming.

 

[evergreen]

And some group shots.



Although I'm coming away from this with four fun stones and a few more dust bunnies in my bank account, I really got a better appreciation for the stones we can buy that are glowing with appealing colors, perfectly transparent, and beautifully cut. My stones got the last bit -- thanks again, Jerry! -- but the colors aren't anything to write home about and I'm relieved I'll never have to put a clarity label on 'em. They are delightful for what they are, and of course in the future I'd LOVE to go to a mine more forthcoming of quality rough, but there's nothing I'm itching to set.

Tons of fun, though, and if anyone has mine recommendations I'm all ears!!

 

[periwinklegirl]

Lovely! And very special that you found them yourself!

 

[chrono]

Appreciate the close up pictures and write up. All in all, they are a very interesting group. The round is too well coloured to be considered an achroite though.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

What a journey! You ended up with some interesting stones and great stories. I love the cut on the pink stone and I really want to see it moving in the light. However, the apex table does worry me a little, as the tip may be more vulnerable to damage. A pendant, maybe?