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ARGH! What do I say?

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Independent Gal

Ideal_Rock
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I have a pal who lives far away. We met at a workshop years ago and had a really great time over the course of a few days goofing around, joking and chatting, went for a drink, hung out. Then we met up in New York, when I lived nearby, a few times and always had a great time. Since then we meet up every now and then when we''re geographically close by and we e-mail each other once a motnh or so and joke around over e-mail. He''s about 25 years older than me, and I foolishly didn''t realize at first that while I saw him as an extremely smart, insightful and interesting guy it''s fun to hang out with, he saw me as a beautiful and brainy young woman and fell head over heels in love with me.

He''s divorced and has a son whom he ADORES. He''s on good terms with his ex and isn''t a sleaze or anything like that. Just a hopeless (and I mean HOPELESS!) romantic.

He told me about his feelings, and I made ABSOLUTELY clear that the age gap made it absolutely impossible, it would never be, end of story. I was nice about it, but VERY clear. He totally understood and it was cool. He just enjoys having me peripherally in his life, and I enjoy having him in mine. His e-mails are great! But I know he''s still deeply, deeply fond of me.

Anyway, I''ve always worked on the assumption which he once planted in my brain that he doesn''t want to know about my love life, and that if something ever got seriously serious, I would tell him about it then.

Well, we were writing each other today and I suddenly thought ''WOW, guess this counts.'' I thought it might be weird to suddenly be engaged and him not even know I''d been dating someone.

What do I say to him? Weird.
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You must tell him you''re engaged, and tell him soon. If you eventually tell him and he finds out that you hesitated to do so, he may misinterpret that as a sign that you didn''t want him to know because you were harboring some feelings for him.

I think you can be as honest with him as you are being with us--"I know that we typically don''t share details about our romantic relationships, but now that I''m engaged I wanted to share my good news with you." Good luck, you desirable young thang!
 
Thanks Haven! Love the phrasing! (Especially the ''desirable young thang'' bit... heeehee. kidding) And that''s good thinking about him potentially having the wrong idea if I wait too long.

Do I wait till I''m ACTUALLY engaged? Or tell him NOW?

I''m still in LIW, but a ring has been purchased.



It makes me sad to think it might knock the wind out of him.
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He''s such a nifty guy, fit, brilliant, full of sparkling conversation, and I''m sure there are TONNES of ladies his own age who''d LOVE to be with him. But he seems to be a ''one woman guy''. First it was his wife. It took him 8 years to fall out of love with her after they were divorced. Then it was me. He told me he was seeing someone for a while, but if it''s not butterflies type ''love'' he doesn''t see the point. What a seriously hopeless romantic. It''s kinda sweet. Kinda sad too, though.
 
LOL...a man is a man is a man. No matter how much older, or how flattering it is to have them as a "friend" a man will be suceptible to falling in love, particularly to a beautiful brainy young woman!!! In the end you were honest with him, and that is all that is needed now too.

Talk to him as a friend, since that is all he is to YOU. His feelings are his own burden to bear. Be gentle, and tell him that you are happy because you finally found love, and that you wish he would be happy for you too (eventually perhaps). As a friend, you have no obligation to fulfill his romantic notions or dreams, but I understand why you would not want to see him hurt.

Personally, I have found these situations in my life to be more trouble than anything else. In any relationship the two people must agree on the boundaries, and if he has feelings that you don't, then ususally I cool off the friendship to spare them future issues. When I was a little kitten of a thing, I worked with an extremely brilliant and talented lawyer. He worked in real estate law and I was like a sponge around him. He was married with a son, and it seems it was an unhappy marraige (I find out later). We would go to lunch and kid around. I introduced him to guys I liked to get his gauge. To me, he was an uncle-figure (as my uncle is only 8 years older than me), and when he announced that he considered a divorce and wanted to date ME I told him the truth and urged him to work things out with the wife. I felt like I was causing more damage than good, and I found new friends to eat lunch with little by little. He is still married, and they had a second child 4 years later, from what I heard.

I think as much as younger women are fascinated by older men, it's difficult to befriend them, as we may see them one way (non-romantically), they will still be men and we are still women, regardless of age. At 20, I have had 80 year old men interested, which as creepy as it was, was a testament that men, no matter WHAT age will want a woman (and all the more if she is young, brainy and attentive to them). It's flattering to them to have your attention, but my opinion although unfounded in anything but my own experiences (that was one of MANY older man stories) is that unless you feel the same way or have a chance of feeling it, you have to be very cautious around men (mostly the romantic kind).

It's part of life. Admiration and love are so tricky when you mix ANY man and woman...but I would rather be curt than lead a man on. Drama is much more interesting on soap operas than in life..
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Be calm, be honest, be yourself. Good luck and remember your fiance may not like the fact that this man pines over you, so keep his feelings in mind as well, perhaps?
 
I second Haven''s idea. You do need to tell him. It will more than likely be akward, and I am sure that he will ask questions. But you have a friendship and this is great news to share!
 
Date: 6/20/2007 4:14:24 PM
Author: Independent Gal
It makes me sad to think it might knock the wind out of him.
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It *is* sad ... for you too. Chances are he''ll finally move on & stop pining for you. I''d try to see it as "releasing him". He deserves someone who''ll love him *back*, "in person" -- not from far away. And knowing that you''ve pledged your heart to another will surely shake him out of any delusions about you "coming around" & finally being his.

As strange as it sounds -- you''ll probably mourn this loss also & experience some rejection & process this much like a breakup. There''s a part of you that''s been nourished by this abiding crush. How will *YOU* feel when it''s over?
 
Thank Nicrez!

Yeah, it took me a while to learn that the way I perceived myself wasn't the way men perceived me. I forget that people 'see' me as a woman, not just as a professional or whatnot. I've got into trouble a couple of times that way, misinterpreting men's behaviour as a result.
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A couple of points of clarification.

1) It was only a few months after we met that he told me about his feelings and I told him 'No WAY never!' He has never tried to 'talk me into it' or anything like that. He just once in a blue moon says things like 'Well, you know how wonderful I think you are!' or something else sweet and sentimental. But he NEVER makes me uncomfortable or says anything inappropriate. I think our friendship is actually pretty healthy and enjoyable for us both. He's a very emotionally mature man, despite his crazy romanticism.

2) We definitely cooled down the friendship after I 'found out'. Living far, far away means we see each other once a year, or two for dinner. We chat over e-mail once every month or so, about politics, his son, travel. Or just banter. It's always fun and nice. Never weird. Otherwise, I'd have shut it down!

3) As for FF, yes, I've tried to be sensitive to his feelings, and he knows about this guy and that we chat once in a while and that I've never had feelings for him. I asked him flat out 'Woudl you rather I not talk to this guy?' and he said it was fine with him. He'd probably slightly rather I NOT talk to him, but whereas he was very clear about preferring me NOT to hang out with another pal whom he thought had a crush on me he didn't say so in this case. So, I think it's ok. Only bothers him a tiny titch, but gives me lots of enjoyment.
 
Hey Deco, here's the weird thing! He was still in love with his wife for YEARS after they divorced. Almost 10 years. And she remarried almost immediately. And they are still friends. In fact, he is friends with the husband too and he STAYS with her and her new husbnad at their home when he goes to visit his son. I actually find that a little weird, but it works for them.

Probably, it partly works because he really is such a gentleman. He truly, never makes me uncomfortable. And I think that THAT is beacuse he is actually wise enough to realize that there IS no hope. I was so completely clear, and I think he truly heard me and understood. But the heart is a funny thing right?

I hope we will be able to stay friends as he has with his ex-wife! I would really miss his friendship if we can't.

But I'd put money on us staying friends! If he can cope with staying in the home of his ex-wife and her husband and letting their relationship transform into friendship, I bet he can cope with e-mailling with his old pal now and then from across the country, despite her getting hitched.

Oh, I hope so.
 
OK, I''m writing to him now.
 
Date: 6/20/2007 4:30:40 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 6/20/2007 4:14:24 PM
Author: Independent Gal
It makes me sad to think it might knock the wind out of him.
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It *is* sad ... for you too. Chances are he''ll finally move on & stop pining for you. I''d try to see it as ''releasing him''. He deserves someone who''ll love him *back*, ''in person'' -- not from far away. And knowing that you''ve pledged your heart to another will surely shake him out of any delusions about you ''coming around'' & finally being his.

As strange as it sounds -- you''ll probably mourn this loss also & experience some rejection & process this much like a breakup. There''s a part of you that''s been nourished by this abiding crush. How will *YOU* feel when it''s over?
Have to chime in - male point of view here. I wouldn''t think he''s pining after you. You set the ground rules - just friends. He''s still around, so he must be ok with it. Especially if he hasn''t gotten all weird on you. I think at most, he thinks about you in a wistful kind of way. Why wouldn''t he? You''re bright, charming, funny, attractive, and all that other good stuff ;)

It sounds like you admire and respect each other. I would be candid and say you feel a bit awkward telling him, because of previous conversations, but you hope he''s happy for you. I''d be surprised if he wasn''t very happy for you.

Z.

ps. If on the off chance he''s not happy/has issues/gets all weird, well it''s time to terminate said platonic friendship.
 
Date: 6/20/2007 4:57:07 PM
Author: zdrastvootya


Date: 6/20/2007 4:30:40 PM
Author: decodelighted



Date: 6/20/2007 4:14:24 PM
Author: Independent Gal
It makes me sad to think it might knock the wind out of him.
7.gif

It *is* sad ... for you too. Chances are he'll finally move on & stop pining for you. I'd try to see it as 'releasing him'. He deserves someone who'll love him *back*, 'in person' -- not from far away. And knowing that you've pledged your heart to another will surely shake him out of any delusions about you 'coming around' & finally being his.

As strange as it sounds -- you'll probably mourn this loss also & experience some rejection & process this much like a breakup. There's a part of you that's been nourished by this abiding crush. How will *YOU* feel when it's over?
Have to chime in - male point of view here. I wouldn't think he's pining after you. You set the ground rules - just friends. He's still around, so he must be ok with it. Especially if he hasn't gotten all weird on you. I think at most, he thinks about you in a wistful kind of way. Why wouldn't he? You're bright, charming, funny, attractive, and all that other good stuff ;)

It sounds like you admire and respect each other. I would be candid and say you feel a bit awkward telling him, because of previous conversations, but you hope he's happy for you. I'd be surprised if he wasn't very happy for you.

Z.

ps. If on the off chance he's not happy/has issues/gets all weird, well it's time to terminate said platonic friendship.

I agree w/ Z. I actually have a friend who is 52 and is a medical doctor and I have been friends w/him before my hubby. Well he told me he like me 12 yrs ago and I told him I didn't like him that way and we are still friends to this day.

Best wishes! I hope you two stay friends.
 
OK, so I wrote to him, and he wrote back an extremely sweet note from his blackberry, the gist of which was:

1) It''s about time! / I knew this day would come (sniff).
2) And I figured as much since you''ve sounded extra chipper lately.
3) And I''m very happy for you
4) Who IS the lucky guy / tell me all about him / is he good enough for ya?

Sweet and appropriate!

It sounded happy and sad at the same time. Kind of like the tone you''d expect from a dad giving his daughter away, actually. Which I find interesting.

I wonder how FF would feel about him coming to the wedding. I''d love to have him there if he wants to come. And I know FF will be honest about whether he''d want that or not.
 
Date: 6/20/2007 5:37:41 PM
Author: Independent Gal
OK, so I wrote to him, and he wrote back an extremely sweet note from his blackberry, the gist of which was:

1) It''s about time! / I knew this day would come (sniff).
2) And I figured as much since you''ve sounded extra chipper lately.
3) And I''m very happy for you
4) Who IS the lucky guy / tell me all about him / is he good enough for ya?

Sweet and appropriate!

It sounded happy and sad at the same time. Kind of like the tone you''d expect from a dad giving his daughter away, actually. Which I find interesting.

I wonder how FF would feel about him coming to the wedding. I''d love to have him there if he wants to come. And I know FF will be honest about whether he''d want that or not.
He sounds like a good friend! I am happy for you
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Talk to FF, he may feel okay about it. My friend came to our wedding and has spent Christmas w/hubby and I. Best wishes.
 
Is it that When Harry Met Sally Thing?

Good for you Travelin Gal..

I am interested, though...


Date: 6/20/2007 4:22:29 PM
Author: Nicrez
LOL...a man is a man is a man. No matter how much older, or how flattering it is to have them as a ''friend'' a man will be suceptible to falling in love, particularly to a beautiful brainy young woman!!! In the end you were honest with him, and that is all that is needed now too.
Is this a current view. Or a classic view. Do others think this, too?

I think this is a non-gender specific set of things...but if others feel this way, or differently, I''d be interested.

For me...though I did have women friends prior to marriage, I haven''t kept up...but they are also in other parts of the country...which I think is more the thing. Frankly, this is true of some of my men friends, too.
 
Well done! Very nicely handled on both sides! If you truly love someone you will want to see them happy - even if it''s not with you!

I think it''s an interesting concept the male female "friends" thing. My mother does not believe it is ever possible unless one or other is gay!
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I have a great friend who is about 20 years older than me and one of the most brilliant, visionary men I have ever met and one of the greatest orators I have ever heard. We hit it off as soon as we met (FI introduced us) and I have coffee, lunch or dinner with him at least once a week if not more. We speak on the phone most days.

He is my political mentor and I am his "rock" for want of a better word. He is also bipolar, but much much worse than I have ever been - I spend my life smoothing ruffled feathers in his wake! However, he met me when I was very down and feeling unsure of myself politically and careerwise and gave me faith in myself and my abilities and opened doors for me.

Our relationship is very strictly platonic, we like each others company and we have very similar interests and if we were both single it could be difficult, but neither of us ever crosses the line with an inappropriate comment or behaviour.

(I had always convinced myself he would never look at someone so much younger than himself in that way anyway - hmmm, his gf is 25!)
 
I think the more important issue for you is to ask yourself why you want to keep this man in your life like this.
 
Date: 6/22/2007 8:57:28 AM
Author: NewUser
I think the more important issue for you is to ask yourself why you want to keep this man in your life like this.
Important point raised. It goes to the functionality of relationships.

New User, I think it''s helpful to ask the question to check yourself.

But...in a more absolute way...I would prefer to think relationships have no functionality, particularly...which is not to say that patterns of practice develop, with respect to them.

Not sure of the saying, nor of my own success in same...but there is a saying about dying well by counting the friends you have.
 
Hi New User
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. You asked why I''d like to keep him in my life and the answer is that he is my friend! Why is he my friend? Because we really enjoy each others'' company (in writing or in person). He is one of the cleverest people I know. He challenges, entertains, and stimulates me intellectually. He makes me think and he makes me laugh. I assume I do the same for him. It''s a fun and enjoyable friendship! We learn from each other.

Is it flattering to be admired by a great guy? Sure! How could it not be? (Though not as flattering as it is to be loved and admired by my wonderful future FI!) But I''m 100% sure that our continued contact is because I value his friendship and he values mine and for no other reason. We admire each other, as friends should!

He''s a very grown up grown-up, if you know what I mean. He knows the deal, and his head is screwed-on the right way.

I talked to FF and he said he''d be fine with inviting him to the wedding. Yay! I wonder if he''d come?

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IG I am glad FF is happy w/it. Your friend sounds wonderful
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Date: 6/22/2007 12:04:00 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Hi New User
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. You asked why I''d like to keep him in my life and the answer is that he is my friend! Why is he my friend? Because we really enjoy each others'' company (in writing or in person). He is one of the cleverest people I know. He challenges, entertains, and stimulates me intellectually. He makes me think and he makes me laugh. I assume I do the same for him. It''s a fun and enjoyable friendship! We learn from each other.
This from your original post:

"he saw me as a beautiful and brainy young woman and fell head over heels in love with me."

So, by your own admission, he is more than just a friend to you, he is head over heels in love with you. Not trying to get in a debate with you because it really doesn''t matter to me what you do with your life, but as an impartial observer, I think you should think a bit deeper about what motivates you to continue with this man in your life like this when you are in a serious relationship with another man.
 
Thanks for your concern New User.
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But I assure you I am self-aware, open with my FF, and deeply reflective about most aspects of my life. Yes! This man fell in love with me. And yes! We have a healthy friendship years later that isn''t at all about that. If it were about that, I wouldn''t be friends with him. If the friendship was about him being in love with me, it would be awkward, yucky, and entirely un-fun. Who would want to be in a weird one-sided sort of sick friendship that was about one person being in love with the other? Not me!

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this is an interesting thread. i see your points IG and i see NewUser's point as well. i have had guys previously who were interested in me in more than friends even if i was not interested in them and i liked having them as 'friends' when i was younger, it was flattering and the friendships were so easy because you know they think you walk on water. but as i got older i felt like those were fairly hollow relationships, and when i met my now-husband, i felt like why would i need to keep any of those friendships? i don't need to. i find as i get older i have less and less time for people who are not serious staples in my life meaning i see them all the time. sure i have friends that i see once in a while but they don't take priority and if i don't have time they fall by the wayside. i don't necessarily think anything is suspect by keeping this person in your life (like i wouldn't say it is a dire thing), but i would not be surprised if as time goes on you find yourself less and less involved with him just as your life with your future fiance is going to evolve and grow and as you become more of a family, you will be more protective of that and less interested in outside influences. just my own experience having had some similar type of previous relationships...!! in any case...sounds like you've got it under control but i did find NewUser's Q interesting because that is kind of what i was thinking too based on my own exp.
 
Point taken! And I do see how it can look that way. One of my best friends had friendships like what you describe when we were much, much younger, so I actually know what you mean. Which makes me more confident in saying that this is not one of those. Those friendships look hollow and one sided.

This friendship is NOT like that. It''s not easy and pleasant because he thinks I walk on water. I don''t think he DOES think I walk on water. The age difference and him being ''not my type'' means romance was never a possibility, even when I was single. But I''m pretty sure that our admiration for and delight in each other is equal and mutual. What I get from the friendship is unrelated to his feelings for me. And honestly? I''m pretty sure what he gets from it is kind of unrelated to his feelings for me too.

Let me put it this way: If I was a man or he was a woman (and neither of us were gay!) we would still be friends and enjoy each other just as much. Sure, it would be a little different. But it would be a friendship just as challenging and enjoyable as the one we have.

I would put money on that.

But I suppose time will tell if I''m wrong... I sure hope I''m not though. I have many friendships of many different kinds, and I value each and every one of them.
 
lol IG well the guys who thought i walked on water obviously didn''t know me very well did they?!?!!
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my hubby was much more realistic...maybe that''s why he ended up becoming hubby. he keeps me in line (mostly).
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IG-- your friend sounds like a keeper. I have always been impressed with the emotional maturity of people who can remain good friends after a romantic period (short or long) or when that "define the relationship" talk (learned that new term from DD) means the definition was different for the two people. Whenever I would datesomeone and say "Lets be friends" they disappeared!

When I met my husband I I was impressed that he had stayed friends with two girls who were either a short term ex-girlfriend or a girl he wanted to be his girlfriend and she just wanted to be a friend. We went out to lunch with one when we visited his home state. I thought it meant that he was a kind soul, a good communicator, and a lovely person and here it is 28 years later and I WAS RIGHT!!! LOL It is also nice that your FI accepts the relationship. I think everyone knows the diff between a friend and an "emotional affair" (another new term to me, thanks to Oprah) and a friend is a good thing to have in this world. Kudos to you, your friend and your FI. And your friend needs to meet a nice lady! He sounds like a winner.
 
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