Aussie: Help with a diamond please

[durianhead]

Hi there,

Wanted to get the expert's opinion on this stone:

Is it worth the price?

1.01ct F SI1 GIA XXX - AUD $7,381
GIA Cert
360 Viewer

 

[lovedogs]

I am not personally a fan of it, but it isnt a "bad" stone by any means. Are you open to alternatives, and what is your preference for size, color, clarity, cost?

 

[durianhead]

I am not personally a fan of it, but it isnt a "bad" stone by any means. Are you open to alternatives, and what is your preference for size, color, clarity, cost?

Thanks for the response. For my benefit and learning, do you mind elaborating a bit more on why you’re not a fan of it?

Looking for a 1ct, eye clean, not too fussed about colour as long as not distinguishable. Cost wise looking to stay around AUD $7k - $8k for just the diamond. Of course happy to be told this is unrealistic. I’ve seen some promising diamonds on JA under $7k so I’ve still got my fingers crossed I’ll find one in Aus.

I’m open to alternatives. However, I’m trying to prioritise stores in Australia first before I venture internationally because:

1. I don’t know my partners ring size and am worried about the resizing process
2. Probably just me being paranoid but I’d like somewhere nearby or within Aus to send the ring for regular cleaning/maintenance
3. However, if I can’t find the stone I really like, I’m definitely open to buying internationally as I’ve only good reviews generally

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks for the response. For my benefit and learning, do you mind elaborating a bit more on why you’re not a fan of it?

Looking for a 1ct, eye clean, not too fussed about colour as long as not distinguishable. Cost wise looking to stay around AUD $7k - $8k for just the diamond. Of course happy to be told this is unrealistic. I’ve seen some promising diamonds on JA under $7k so I’ve still got my fingers crossed I’ll find one in Aus.

I’m open to alternatives. However, I’m trying to prioritise stores in Australia first before I venture internationally because:

1. I don’t know my partners ring size and am worried about the resizing process
2. Probably just me being paranoid but I’d like somewhere nearby or within Aus to send the ring for regular cleaning/maintenance
3. However, if I can’t find the stone I really like, I’m definitely open to buying internationally as I’ve only good reviews generally

Is there a way to search online from your local stores? Most folks find that buying a diamond abroad is easier bc from what I understand there isnt as much choice in AUS itself.

 

[lovedogs]

As for why I dont like it, the pav angle is too steep for my taste (41) and I think its causing issues. The table where the arrows meet is "messy" looking to me. I'm not great at explaining why I dont like a stone, so maybe @sledge or @flyingpig can explain it better.

 

[sledge]

There's a few things that jump out at me:

1. Slight asymmetry in the arrows.

2. Because of GIA gross rounding, anytime you are looking at a stone with a 41 pavilion, it gets a bit tricky. You don't want the actual values to cross 41.25 as light will not fully strike off the pavilion mains. This causes translucent arrows when photographed instead of black arrows. This lack of contrast can create a flat & dull looking stone.

3. The black crystals on the table are a problem. Even zoomed down to the lowest setting, we can still easily see the black spots. It does not appear this stone will be eye clean.




4. The larger 58 table coupled with the larger 80 LGF's (skinny arrows) provides an unappealing look (in my opinion). The lack of contrast noted in #2 adds to the issue.

5. There are appears to be some obstruction & leakage as well.

6. Despite pulling a decent HCA prediction score of 1.8, the fire & scintillation only scores "very good" instead of "excellent". Also, with the other factors above, it sort of negates the good score IMO.




7. 7,831 AUD = ~$6,082 USD according to Google currency converter. Actual exchange rates may vary. For an additional $500 USD you can get this super ideal WF ES 0.994 F-VS2 w/ med blue fluor (looks to be the only reason it missed ACA & you would likely make many jealous here w/ the MBF and 0.994 size). My point being for just a smidge more you can dip into the super ideal pool if you wanted.

Diamond | 0.994 ct F VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4340611

This fabulous 0.994 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4340611

www.whiteflash.com

 

[sledge]

FYI, I was looking for some other stones for you and stumbled on this. No pics or videos. But essentially just a larger version of the original stone you asked about according to the reports, yet cheaper.

$6,289 / 1.12 carats = $5,671.33 per carat x 1.01 (size of original stone) = $5,728 adjusted

USA Certed is a reputable dealer. However, they offer more of a no-thrills type experience as I don't think they offer an upgrade program, etc. So many times Martin is cheaper than others with the same stone.

Not suggesting you go this route. I'd still have similar concerns with a 41 pavilion as I noted on the original stone (except I have no pics or videos to make a determination). Just using as a price measure.

https://diamonddealfinder.com/enquiry.php?id_field=3053531

 

[durianhead]

Is there a way to search online from your local stores? Most folks find that buying a diamond abroad is easier bc from what I understand there isnt as much choice in AUS itself.

Some local stores have an online catalogue, most don't. Even for the local stores that have an online catalogue, most of the diamonds will be overseas and we'll need to pay a deposit (refundable if it's not as agreed) to bring them in for viewing. However, in saying that, most vendors I've spoken to have said that they will verify with their overseas counterpart that the diamond is eye clean before proceeding with the request. I can't testify how true this is as I've yet to find a stone I'd like to bring in for viewing.

As for why I dont like it, the pav angle is too steep for my taste (41) and I think its causing issues. The table where the arrows meet is "messy" looking to me. I'm not great at explaining why I dont like a stone, so maybe @sledge or @flyingpig can explain it better.

Thanks for the input! Appreciate it.

There's a few things that jump out at me:

1. Slight asymmetry in the arrows.

2. Because of GIA gross rounding, anytime you are looking at a stone with a 41 pavilion, it gets a bit tricky. You don't want the actual values to cross 41.25 as light will not fully strike off the pavilion mains. This causes translucent arrows when photographed instead of black arrows. This lack of contrast can create a flat & dull looking stone.

3. The black crystals on the table are a problem. Even zoomed down to the lowest setting, we can still easily see the black spots. It does not appear this stone will be eye clean.




4. The larger 58 table coupled with the larger 80 LGF's (skinny arrows) provides an unappealing look (in my opinion). The lack of contrast noted in #2 adds to the issue.

5. There are appears to be some obstruction & leakage as well.

6. Despite pulling a decent HCA prediction score of 1.8, the fire & scintillation only scores "very good" instead of "excellent". Also, with the other factors above, it sort of negates the good score IMO.




7. 7,831 AUD = ~$6,082 USD according to Google currency converter. Actual exchange rates may vary. For an additional $500 USD you can get this super ideal WF ES 0.994 F-VS2 w/ med blue fluor (looks to be the only reason it missed ACA & you would likely make many jealous here w/ the MBF and 0.994 size). My point being for just a smidge more you can dip into the super ideal pool if you wanted.

Diamond | 0.994 ct F VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4340611

This fabulous 0.994 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4340611

www.whiteflash.com

This is absolutely brilliant. Thank you for this. The inclusion was actually one of the main reasons why I wanted to get an opinion from PS. Is WhiteFlash ACA considered the gold standard here?

If any Aussies have any experience dealing with WhiteFlash (customs, resizing, maintenance, etc.), I'd love to hear from you!

Everyone here have been tremendously helpful. I'll continue my search locally and will come back with some more findings to get your valued opinions!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

@sledge beat me to it. Bullet #3: Inclusions.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Bron357]

Hi, I’m in Sydney.
First off, you’re confident that a round brilliant is your intended preference?
Diamonds come in different shapes and some ladies desire a coloured stone (often sapphire or ruby).
I say this because it’s a lot of money to spend you of course you want it to be what she wants.
I haven’t bought any diamonds from OS I’m an avid ebayer.
Realistically, utilising an upgrade policy is very complicated from Australia to the US due to our customs and GST.
Ditto maintenance.
I’d just buy the diamond OS and look locally for a jeweller to create the actual ring.
And if you want to present it “set” just choose a 4 prong simple solitaire as ring styles are very personal.
Customs / taxes will be 10% of the purchase price plus shipping. Fed ex is best, they will do the customs paperwork for you (not free, it was $75 last time I imported) and phone you for a credit card payment of the total (taxes and their fee) over the phone once it has cleared Customs. They then deliver within 3 days.
If you’re in Sydney I can recommend my jeweller (Town Hall Arcade).

 

[Dancing Fire]

Diamond | 0.994 ct F VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4340611

This fabulous 0.994 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4340611

www.whiteflash.com

Beautiful stone, IMO a true H&A stone. I guess it didn't made ACA line b/c of the med fluor?

 

[durianhead]

Hi, I’m in Sydney.
First off, you’re confident that a round brilliant is your intended preference?
Diamonds come in different shapes and some ladies desire a coloured stone (often sapphire or ruby).
I say this because it’s a lot of money to spend you of course you want it to be what she wants.
I haven’t bought any diamonds from OS I’m an avid ebayer.
Realistically, utilising an upgrade policy is very complicated from Australia to the US due to our customs and GST.
Ditto maintenance.
I’d just buy the diamond OS and look locally for a jeweller to create the actual ring.
And if you want to present it “set” just choose a 4 prong simple solitaire as ring styles are very personal.
Customs / taxes will be 10% of the purchase price plus shipping. Fed ex is best, they will do the customs paperwork for you (not free, it was $75 last time I imported) and phone you for a credit card payment of the total (taxes and their fee) over the phone once it has cleared Customs. They then deliver within 3 days.
If you’re in Sydney I can recommend my jeweller (Town Hall Arcade).

Hi, Bron357! Yes, I'm fairly confident that a round brilliant is the intended preference.

Thanks for the input!

My only concern was that jewellers would be hesitant to set a ring with a stone that they didn't source themselves and hence always include the disclaimer "We will not be held liable for any damage to the stone during the setting process". Given I'm not experienced enough in this to know how common that is, the disclaimer itself is kind of scaring me away from doing that.

Am I over-worrying?

 

[maryjane04]

I agree with the other posters regarding the inclusions on the diamond you selected. I don't have eagle eyes by any means but the location of those inclusions are bothersome.

In regards to buying from overseas, I would suggest getting WF to make the setting for you as well. Jewellers in Australia are so over priced and like you said might be difficult to find someone to set an outside stone.

Here are some experiences from other Aussie buyers:

Wire Transfer payment from Australia to Whiteflash US via TransferWise

I have jumped in and made my order on Whiteflash since I started looking around for diamonds about a month ago. I calculated the cost to be pretty much just the same now as local suppliers because the exchange rate has gone to crap, but decided to go ahead with it and looking at things...

www.pricescope.com

Aussies who have bought from Whiteflash?

I am getting closer to making my purchase form Whiteflash and I am a bit nervous about the whole wire transfer experience. I also know that there will be GST to pay on my end. I would love to hear form Australian PSers who have bought form Whiteflash, how was your experience? Do you have any...

www.pricescope.com

 

[durianhead]

In regards to buying from overseas, I would suggest getting WF to make the setting for you as well. Jewellers in Australia are so over priced and like you said might be difficult to find someone to set an outside stone.

Hi Maryjane04! Thanks for the input. That was my initial plan actually, and the one I'm leaning more towards at the moment.

Only worrying part is I don't have my partner's ring size. I do have a ring that she wears on the middle finger of the opposite hand that I can use as a starting point.

But am otherwise worried about the logistics of having it resized if it wasn't purchased locally.

On the flip side, I am just looking at setting it in a standard 'Tiffany' setting so hopefully jewellers here would be open to the idea of resizing a ring they didn't make. Though not sure how that would play out with the warranty with the international vendor.

Not to mention the hassle of the logistics of annual maintenance?

I may be getting ahead of myself here. Hah.

 

[maryjane04]

It is definitely easier to resize something bigger to smaller especially if it has a plain shank i.e. no pave etc. Also in terms of maintenance/cleaning/checking any good jeweller would be able to do that for you. I think a standard Tiffany setting is a good classic choice. But maybe go ring shopping if you can so you can get a better feel for what she likes and her ring size etc good luck!

 

[durianhead]

It is definitely easier to resize something bigger to smaller especially if it has a plain shank i.e. no pave etc. Also in terms of maintenance/cleaning/checking any good jeweller would be able to do that for you. I think a standard Tiffany setting is a good classic choice. But maybe go ring shopping if you can so you can get a better feel for what she likes and her ring size etc good luck!

I'll take that on notice! Thank you. Much appreciated.

I'm planning to surprise her so I don't think I'll be able to go ring shopping with her. In fact, all the analysis I'm doing at the moment would probably only drive her nuts. LOL

 

[durianhead]

Beautiful stone, IMO a true H&A stone. I guess it didn't made ACA line b/c of the med fluor?

It is a gorgeous stone. Unfortunately plus the GST and brokerage fee (c. 11.2% from what I gather), it's a bit out of my current budget, which I may widen if I can't find any good stones.

 

[sledge]

Beautiful stone, IMO a true H&A stone. I guess it didn't made ACA line b/c of the med fluor?

That is my assumptions. Part of ACA criteria is negligible fluor and all the images and proportions looked rock solid. Basically an ACA w/ MBF in my books. Plus a 0.994 stone.

Very rare bird. Second time I’ve recommended this stone. If larger would upgrade the wife and buy myself.

 

[sledge]

It is a gorgeous stone. Unfortunately plus the GST and brokerage fee (c. 11.2% from what I gather), it's a bit out of my current budget, which I may widen if I can't find any good stones.

Narrow your search to the following:

54-57 table
60-62 depth
34-35 crown
40.6-40.8 pavilion
75-80 lower girdle facets
AGS000 or GIA 3X only

These proportions are intentionally tight to ensure you get within ideal range. It will eliminate a bunch of other stones and probably drive your jeweler a little mad. But it will get you on track to a better cut stone.

 

[durianhead]

That is my assumptions. Part of ACA criteria is negligible fluor and all the images and proportions looked rock solid. Basically an ACA w/ MBF in my books. Plus a 0.994 stone.

Very rare bird. Second time I’ve recommended this stone. If larger would upgrade the wife and buy myself.

For my benefit and understanding, would a med blue fluor have any visual impacts on the diamond in a real life setting?

I've had opposing answers depending on where they came from so am still a little confused.

Narrow your search to the following:

54-57 table
60-62 depth
34-35 crown
40.6-40.8 pavilion
75-80 lower girdle facets
AGS000 or GIA 3X only

These proportions are intentionally tight to ensure you get within ideal range. It will eliminate a bunch of other stones and probably drive your jeweler a little mad. But it will get you on track to a better cut stone.

Thank you! I've been doing my search online (not with the jeweller) based on the following, which is slightly looser than what you've got above. I will refine to tighten it accordingly:

Properties	Low​	High​
Table %	54.0%​	57.0%​
Depth %	61.0%​	62.0 62.5%​
Crown angle	34.0°​	35.0°​
Pavilion angle	40.6°​	40.8 41.0°​
Lower girdles	75.0%​	80.0%​
Star facets	50.0%​	55.0%​
Girdle thickness	Thin​	Slightly thick​

 

[Bron357]

Hi, Bron357! Yes, I'm fairly confident that a round brilliant is the intended preference.

Thanks for the input!

My only concern was that jewellers would be hesitant to set a ring with a stone that they didn't source themselves and hence always include the disclaimer "We will not be held liable for any damage to the stone during the setting process". Given I'm not experienced enough in this to know how common that is, the disclaimer itself is kind of scaring me away from doing that.

Am I over-worrying?

They nearly all say that.
Strictly speaking a competent jeweller setting a diamond is no real risk.
Some other gemstones are more brittle (tanzanite) more included (emerald) and softer (opal) so more experience and care is needed.
You just tell them this is a special family diamond for a special engagement ring for the most special woman, your fiancée!
The thing is jewellers like to value add, if they supply the diamond they get some $$$ from that as well. They don’t like to miss out on any $$$.
sometimes jewellers are if you say you bought it on line, they will might even disparage your choice and put the fear of God into you. A good jeweller is happy for your enquiry let alone business. My jeweller is amazing, I’ve been going there for 2 decades.

 

[munchee]

For my benefit and understanding, would a med blue fluor have any visual impacts on the diamond in a real life setting?

I've had opposing answers depending on where they came from so am still a little confused.



Thank you! I've been doing my search online (not with the jeweller) based on the following, which is slightly looser than what you've got above. I will refine to tighten it accordingly:

Properties	Low​	High​
Table %	54.0%​	57.0%​
Depth %	61.0%​	62.0 62.5%​
Crown angle	34.0°​	35.0°​
Pavilion angle	40.6°​	40.8 41.0°​
Lower girdles	75.0%​	80.0%​
Star facets	50.0%​	55.0%​
Girdle thickness	Thin​	Slightly thick​

I’ve read across this forum and I believe many PSers said PA 41 is Ok if its paired with 34 CA. But not other combinations.

 

[monipod]

3. The black crystals on the table are a problem. Even zoomed down to the lowest setting, we can still easily see the black spots. It does not appear this stone will be eye clean.

Immediate dealbreaker for me and I'm a fan of I1 stones lol Carbon inclusions are welcomed anywhere but the table for me.

I would seriously consider at least buying the loose stone from JA or another US vendor. The saving even after tax is considerable. Loose stones are only charged 10% GST whereas a full ring will incur another 5%. That way you can find a local jeweller to set your stone for you and have a contact for cleaning etc.

 

[monipod]

Hi, Bron357! Yes, I'm fairly confident that a round brilliant is the intended preference.

Thanks for the input!

My only concern was that jewellers would be hesitant to set a ring with a stone that they didn't source themselves and hence always include the disclaimer "We will not be held liable for any damage to the stone during the setting process". Given I'm not experienced enough in this to know how common that is, the disclaimer itself is kind of scaring me away from doing that.

Am I over-worrying?

Yes and no. It's worth checking on your jeweller's insurance policy. My jeweller loves setting my loose stones and we've had no issues.

It'll come down to the jeweller. Some don't like not making a profit out of sourcing a stone for you. Some are genuinely concerned as their policy may indeed not cover some things.

And in case no one answered, Medium Blue Fluor is pretty negligible. You'll barely notice it I feel, even with a DEF stone.

Sorry - catching up on other people's posts as I write. I would totally consider a Whiteflash stone! I was tempted once but got lured over to the dark side... You can't go wrong with an ideal cut and don't be afraid to go 'down' to a GHI stone. With an ideal cut, the sparkle will distract the most colour sensitive

 

[sledge]

For my benefit and understanding, would a med blue fluor have any visual impacts on the diamond in a real life setting?

I've had opposing answers depending on where they came from so am still a little confused.

Fluor can create a milky/hazy/oily transparency issue in some stones. Normally in strong or very strong levels, and a handful of them actually experience it. My wife’s stone is a BGD Blue w/ MBF and no issues at all.

Short answer is perform due diligence, but when buying from a trusted vendor like WF or BGD helps ease the stress. I wouldn’t be overly worried at all with the stone from WF but would ask them to confirm there are no transparency issues. Since they actually own their stones (ACA, ES & PS lines) they can pull from their vault and easily verify for you. Plus they are extremely transparent and honest so if they say it’s good you can trust that.

More tech info here:

Diamond Fluorescence: Everything You Need To Know

How is diamond fluorescence graded? Will I see fluorescence in diamonds? Learn how fluorescence impacts diamond value here.

www.pricescope.com

Thank you! I've been doing my search online (not with the jeweller) based on the following, which is slightly looser than what you've got above. I will refine to tighten it accordingly:

Properties	Low​	High​
Table %	54.0%​	57.0%​
Depth %	61.0%​	62.0 62.5%​
Crown angle	34.0°​	35.0°​
Pavilion angle	40.6°​	40.8 41.0°​
Lower girdles	75.0%​	80.0%​
Star facets	50.0%​	55.0%​
Girdle thickness	Thin​	Slightly thick​

Yup, we are tightening up to hopefully eliminate stones on the fringe. If you don’t yield enough results you can loosen a bit. I’m okay going over 62 depth a smidge but 41 pavilion is a sticky point.

I’ve read across this forum and I believe many PSers said PA 41 is Ok if its paired with 34 CA. But not other combinations.

Correct that you want an inverse relationship, so a shallow 34 crown pairs well with a steeper 41 pavilion.

The bigger issue is gross rounding and the fact some of the actuals will likely exceed 41.2 and that is when things go wonky. It’s very difficult to find a tightly cut 34/41. Not impossible, but hard.

The purpose of tightening the criteria is to hopefully keep the OP from pushing the fringe and getting burned. When buying online without advanced images it’s a little scary to shop reports only.
[/QUOTE]

 

[durianhead]

Thanks everyone for the input! It's been immensely helpful. The responses here have been very encouraging. I'm seriously considering ordering the loose diamond from a reputable online vendor and setting it locally.

Just for my benefit, 1 question I still had was would the medium blue fluorescent in the below diamond show in a real life setting? How different would the stone look if it had no fluorescent?

Because I can't see the images indicating much difference from the med-blue fluo.

Diamond | 0.994 ct F VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4340611

This fabulous 0.994 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4340611

www.whiteflash.com

 

[sledge]

Edited my last response to address fluor. You may need to refresh to see it.

 

[munchee]

Thanks everyone for the input! It's been immensely helpful. The responses here have been very encouraging. I'm seriously considering ordering the loose diamond from a reputable online vendor and setting it locally.

Just for my benefit, 1 question I still had was would the medium blue fluorescent in the below diamond show in a real life setting? How different would the stone look if it had no fluorescent?

Because I can't see the images indicating much difference from the med-blue fluo.

Hope this can help you to get an idea

Show Me Your Fluorescence in the sun!

I’m new to medium blue fluorescence and would love to see pics of your Diamonds exhibiting this phenomenon! I don’t know how to differentiate between a blue sky or this phenomenon. So please share yours!

www.pricescope.com

 

[sledge]

Just for my benefit, 1 question I still had was would the medium blue fluorescent in the below diamond show in a real life setting? How different would the stone look if it had no fluorescent?

Because I can't see the images indicating much difference from the med-blue fluo.

So two things have to happen. First the stronger the fluor in the stone, the more reactive it gets to UV light. Secondly, the lighting source has to have a high enough amount of UV to get the stone excited.

Indirect sunlight can make the stone fluorescence. In theory, this can be a desirable attribute because blue fluor helps whiten a stone, assuming it has a yellow tint. Most stones do have yellow tint (even high colors). And most fluor is blue. However, some stones may exhibit a different tint or fluor color and those unique combos don’t always create a whitening effect, yet do create some really interest effects.

Sometimes people will seek fluor as a way to enhance color; however, because the lighting and fluor levels play such a crucial role, it should be viewed as a perk and not a “constant on” of color enhancement.

My wife’s stone is an H and we rarely see any improvement. And when I do it’s very marginal. However, if you go to a night club with black lights these stones do glow, lol. In select environments and strengths you may get a bluish hue but again that is fairly limited.

This is a great video of a BGD Blue 1.35 F w/ MBF that I think supports what I am saying.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Just for my benefit, 1 question I still had was would the medium blue fluorescent in the below diamond show in a real life setting? How different would the stone look if it had no fluorescent?

Because I can't see the images indicating much difference from the med-blue fluo.

G color med blue on top and G color non fluor on bottom.



G color med blue on the right and H non fluor on the left.