Bad Experience with Natural Sapphire Company (long)

[Fox2009]

I don''t want to write a long and ranty post, but I wanted to give a heads up to people about my experience with Natural Sapphire Co. (because I sure would have wanted to know this if I could do it over again!). The only way to do that completely is to tell the whole story. And, unfortunately, it is long!

We purchased a ring and setting from the NSC about 15 months ago. It is a 1.45 carat cushion cut sapphire in a palladium setting. Within 1-2 months, it bent in half from simply bumping my hand on our washing machine (didn''t even hurt my finger). We sent it in for a repair and they fixed it right away, free of charge. We were pleased with the service.

Fast forward 3 months, and I bumped my hand on a door. Again, my finger wasn''t injured at all. This time, the shank of the ring broke in half! I was pretty upset, so we sent it in for another repair, and they sent us a repair estimate for $200.00! My husband called Steven Bliss to talk to him, and Steven told him he thought he was lying about the ring breaking, and how it broke. As if we WANTED To break my ring, and were unusually hard on it! Steven told my husband that he would send it back to us unfixed and we could get the metal tested, and if it was faulty, they''d fix it for free.

So, we got the ring back and it was "fully" repaired with no explanation. Odd. But, nice!

Fast forward a couple more months, and I bumped my hand on my desk while working and my ring re-fractured. This time, we were fed up. So we took it to a local jeweler who specializes in making beautiful palladium jewelry. We had the president of the company evaluate the setting, and he showed it to us under magnification, up against a well made piece of palladium jewelry and showed us all of the flaws in what the NSC had made. He called it "a piece of junk" about 10 times. And, we had to agree.

So, we wrote to the NSC, a firm and upset (but not unreasonable or angry) letter, telling them that we wanted a refund on the setting. Long story short--we ended up having a lengthy email exchange where the PRESIDENT of NSC told us that he thought we were lying and trying to extort them for money to buy a new setting somewhere else. This upset us so much, because we loved our ring, we just don''t want it to break every 2-3 months, that is simply unacceptable. But, instead of taking responsibility for their work (And honoring their "lifetime warranty") he refused to do so, and was very insulting and rude. He said that if they inspected the work, and indeed found fault with it, they would give us a refund ONLY if we gave up our stone, as well. But, it is my engagement stone, and, of course, has a lot of sentimental value. I love it. I don''t want to be forced to give it up just to get a refund on something that was made wrong (And that supposedly has a lifetime warranty).

It is unresolved as of now, I left it with complaints to 3 different business regulation bureaus, and a call into my lawyer. I can''t believe how rudely we were treated, and how poor their craftsmanship, and customer service are.

Just wanted to put the word out so that anyone thinking of making a purchase will know how they can be. (of course, they are not this way to everyone, or else they wouldn''t be in business!)

 

[arjunajane]

wow, thats totally messed up! I am very sorry to hear of this Fox, I sincerely hope you have it resolved quickly

What a shame they are not standing by their lifetime garauntee

 

[FrekeChild]

Wow. That sounds really awful. I''m sorry you had to go through that. Luckily for me, I don''t ever plan on doing business with NSC. Do you have any pictures of the ring?

 

[Kaleigh]

I am sorry you had a bad experience with them. I have a gorgeous ring from NSC The setting is even nicer than a Leon Mege setting I have.
You said you bumped it, they fixed it, free of charge. Then you bump it again, they charge you $200. Sounds reasonable to me? Then you bump it again?

Have any before and after pics? That would be helpful.

I'd like to hear their side as well.

Steven Bliss retired months ago? That's what I heard anyway...

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/23/2009 1:39:28 AM
Author: Kaleigh
I am sorry you had a bad experience with them. I have a gorgeous ring from NSC The setting is even nicer than a Leon Mege setting I have.
You said you bumped it, they fixed it, free of charge. Then you bump it again, they charge you $200. Sounds reasonable to me? Then you bump it again?

Have any before and after pics? That would be helpful.

I''d like to hear their side as well.

Steven Bliss retired months ago? That''s what I heard anyway...

Hi Kaleigh,
of course I am interested in NSC''s side aswell.
But honestly, if my ring broke every time I bumped it on something, I''d have no ring left by now!

Could it be that Fox has been a *tad* more careless with her ring than is recommended..? Perhaps..
But should an ering made of precious metals break when bumped against wood etc? Not in my book

And should a company honour an advertised "Lifetime Garauntee" that they use to attract customers? I should surely think so

anyways, I agree - if there is anyone that is familiar with NSC, perhaps they are interested in presenting their side of the story here?
As this stage, going on Fox''s experience, I doubt I would buy from them

 

[MakingTheGrade]

So sorry to hear that! Odd, I was under the impression that Steven Bliss no longer worked there, guess I must have been mistaken.
I actually have a small bone to pick with the NSC as well regarding a stone I just bought, which is too bad because they seemed to be a very respectable company.

I hope everything gets resolved in your favor!

 

[cssuja]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I have two settings made by the NSC for my padparadscha sapphires. You can see the pictures here. Their work is excellent. But both my settings are in gold(rose gold and yellow gold). I remember LindaW has a couple of settings from the NSC, and she has been happy with them as well. Hope the isuue get resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Oh no! I was just considering this for my e-ring. It''s a padparadscha from NSC:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Sapphire-Jewelry/Sapphire-Rings/Jewelry=J1376


I was going to ask what everyone thought of it but now I''m concerned about the company!

I chose them because they seemed reputable. Has that changed?

Can anyone recommend a reputable company selling padparadschas? I live in South Africa so my fiancee will have to ship it in.

 

[Fox2009]

Thanks for all the commentary! I don't really like writing an uber-negative post, but I just know I would have wanted to know back when I was ring shopping.

I, too, think Steven Bliss has retired. The first 2 times I bumped my ring, we dealt with him. But, this time we dealt with the President of the Co., Michael Arnstein (Walter's son, I think). Steven isn't even on the website.

I'm thinking that maybe they just do faulty castings in palladium. I've heard good things about other settings, and a lot of jewelers make mistakes with palladium since it is relatively "new" to the jewelry world. But, if they do, they should stand by it! Also, we were told at the jewelry store that it is a faulty design, as well. It's a pretty high setting, but, I figured if it was on their website it was because it was structurally sound.

The thing that is so weird about my ring bending is that I wasn't very hard on it. I'm a law student, and before that I was a massage therapist. I don't do anything extreme with my hands, and I take it off for showering/cooking/working out, etc. For the first 6 months I had the ring, I even wore it on a chain instead of on my finger 85% of the time due to being a MT. It bent or broke way too easily for a ring that is suppose to last a lifetime, IMHO.

Re: their side of the story--what they say now, or rather, what Michael says, is basically what I told you: that we found a setting elsewhere and are trying to extort them for the price of our setting (and it isn't a expensive setting, in jewelry world terms). That is what Steven said to us too, in nicer terms. I don't get why they would fabricate some sort of story like that, especially when we've tried to get the existing setting fixed so many times already (obviously showing that we wanted to keep it). Michael never really addressed the actual problem we're having with the ring, or the quality, or the craftsmanship issues. Nothing. Then he cut off communication with us and said his final offer: a refund if we return the whole thing, even if we are happy with the stone. I don't want to be bullied into giving up my stone just to get a refund on the setting!

I don't have any great pictures of the ring on this computer, but I will try to dig some up (got a new computer awhile ago and haven't transferred files). I have pictures of the stone/setting separately, somewhere, that are pretty good. This whole thing is really unfortunate, because up until dealing with Michael, we were pretty pleased with the service (well, besides Steven calling my husband a liar!). And, of course, I loved my ring.

 

[T L]

Perhaps there''s some inconsistantcy in how their settings are made? Anyways, it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story from NSC. In all the postings I''ve read on PS, it seems to be one of the companies that people either love or hate, and I think/suspect, a lot of that has to do with the salesperson involved with your purchase.

 

[strmrdr]

The problem with stories like this is that the person you are quoting is biased and his information may or may not be true.
He wants to sell you a new setting so of course his is going to be better ... or so he says.
We don''t know.

Some designs do not work for some people.
You mention you were a massage therapist I am betting that you have 3-4 times the finger strength of the average person and that can make a difference.

That does not mean we don''t feel bad for you.

 

[Fox2009]

Salesperson has a lot to do with it! At least Steven TRIED to be nice when he called us liars for no reason! Lol, really though, he was good up until the ring started to break. He was very patient while we were designing it, etc. It is too bad for them that they lost him.

I don''t blame any of you for being skeptical, about what they''ve said or what has happened, and I totally understand. I''m mostly putting this out there to help others, maybe, later on--not to help myself (because I doubt this will really help).

Lol re: superwoman fingers! Really I don''t have that strong of fingers... Actually, I have very delicate, thin, long fingers (ring size 4-4.25 depending on the hand). I wish I had superwoman fingers though...

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Wait, you designed it? So it was a custom ring? I''m surprised they''re willing to take it back at all, stone or no stone.

 

[Fox2009]

I should have been more clear--we just matched a stone to a setting on the website that they already had on there. We didn''t make any alterations to the design.

Here''s a picture with my ring in it--it''s not a ring focused picture, but, it''s there....

 

[Linda W]

Date: 3/23/2009 8:35:06 AM
Author: Anita
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I have two settings made by the NSC for my padparadscha sapphires. You can see the pictures here. Their work is excellent. But both my settings are in gold(rose gold and yellow gold). I remember LindaW has a couple of settings from the NSC, and she has been happy with them as well. Hope the isuue get resolved to your satisfaction.

Yes, I have 3 rings by the NSC that my Pads are set into. They are gorgeous settings. I have never had any problem whatsoever, with any of my rings, earrings or pendant that I have purchased from them. As Kaleigh mentioned their craftsmanship us outstanding.

Steven Bliss, retired in January or February and I was very sorry to hear that, as he and I had become great friends.

I am not sure if palladium is a soft metal or not, but I would like to hear NSC side of the story as well.

I do hope Fox, that you will be able to work things out with them.


Linda

 

[Fox2009]

Yeah, I''ve always thought that they just must have had some palladium troubles. If they had troubles with all of their settings, they would likely be out of business! And, like I said, lots of companies do have trouble when they first start working with palladium (from what I''ve been told).

Palladium is suppose to be about as strong as platinum, from what Steven told me. He said, and I quote, we could "try to smash that ring with a hammer and it wouldn''t break." Ha ha! We didn''t take him up on that, needless to say

In addition to the non-durability of my ring, compared to a "well-cast" piece, it is very pitted, lumpy, and dull looking (when looking side by side)--so the appearance isn''t what it is suppose to be either. But, we weren''t really bothered with that at the time, it''s mostly the issue of it breaking repeatedly.

 

[neatfreak]

Honestly, I would send the ring to a *trusted* *neutral* appraiser such as Richard Sherwood. He can make an unbiased opinion about whether the ring is faulty or not-and you can go from there.

It isn''t really fair to go to another jeweler to ask if a setting you bought elsewhere is faulty. If I were NSC I wouldn''t trust that as a source either.

And platinum AND palladium are fairly soft in the sense that even gripping a steering wheel too tightly or things like that can cause the ring to bend or break over time. Is there anything like that you do with your ring (play tennis?) that might be weakening it so that one blow is then breaking it?

Just trying to think of explanations here...but really, start with an unbiased appraisal and go from there. It''s a lot less easy for NSC to ignore that.

 

[Linda W]

Great advice Neat, as usual!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheNaturalSapphireCompany]

This is Michael Arnstein, President of The Natural Sapphire Company.
I felt compelled to post a reply to this negative post that Fox2009 has made about our company.

I will keep this as short and to the point as I can.

Fox2009 claims that our casting was not made well.
This we deny.
If a thorough search is done online on pricescope or any other online community, no other casting related issues from our company will be found.
We have very high standards and our quality control is 2nd to none, nothing is delivered without multiple QC checks.
On both occasions that Fox2009 asked us to repair their mounting we did so at no cost. We FIRMLY believe there was no porosity issues with the metal, and damage was a result of misuse.
On both occasions that we received the ring back for repair we did our own stress tests on the mounting to see if there was any stability issues.

At this point, well after a year and now many attempts and threats from Fox2009 to extract money from us on completely unfair claims has brought us to the point where we must stand firm and not allow unreasonable clients to push us around.

We could easily deny all interactions with Fox2009, yet we still went a step above and beyond and offered them a full refund.

As we see this, they simply want a new mounting design from another company and want us to give them money to pay for it.
Fox2009 continues to threaten us with a multitude of nasty threats (call the Attorney General, sue us, call the BBB, have their lawyer threaten us, etc as they have said in writing in past correspondence).
We find this very unsettling, but remain firm that we cannot be taken advantage of.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 3/23/2009 12:59:39 PM
Author: neatfreak
Honestly, I would send the ring to a *trusted* *neutral* appraiser such as Richard Sherwood. He can make an unbiased opinion about whether the ring is faulty or not-and you can go from there.

It isn''t really fair to go to another jeweler to ask if a setting you bought elsewhere is faulty. If I were NSC I wouldn''t trust that as a source either.

And platinum AND palladium are fairly soft in the sense that even gripping a steering wheel too tightly or things like that can cause the ring to bend or break over time. Is there anything like that you do with your ring (play tennis?) that might be weakening it so that one blow is then breaking it?

Just trying to think of explanations here...but really, start with an unbiased appraisal and go from there. It''s a lot less easy for NSC to ignore that.

At this point, I think that would be the best thing to do. An unbiased opinion is truly what is needed here.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/23/2009 1:13:19 PM
Author: TheNaturalSapphireCompany

This is Michael Arnstein, President of The Natural Sapphire Company.
I felt compelled to post a reply to this negative post that Fox2009 has made about our company.

I will keep this as short and to the point as I can.

Fox2009 claims that our casting was not made well.
This we deny.
If a thorough search is done online on pricescope or any other online community, no other casting related issues from our company will be found.
We have very high standards and our quality control is 2nd to none, nothing is delivered without multiple QC checks.

On both occasions that Fox2009 asked us to repair their mounting we did so at no cost. We FIRMLY believe there was no porosity issues with the metal, and damage was a result of misuse.
On both occasions that we received the ring back for repair we did our own stress tests on the mounting to see if there was any stability issues.

At this point, well after a year and now many attempts and threats from Fox2009 to extract money from us on completely unfair claims has brought us to the point where we must stand firm and not allow unreasonable clients to push us around.

We could easily deny all interactions with Fox2009, yet we still went a step above and beyond and offered them a full refund.

As we see this, they simply want a new mounting design from another company and want us to give them money to pay for it.
Fox2009 continues to threaten us with a multitude of nasty threats (call the Attorney General, sue us, call the BBB, have their lawyer threaten us, etc as they have said in writing in past correspondence).
We find this very unsettling, but remain firm that we cannot be taken advantage of.

Michael, what proof do you have to feel that they want a new mounting design? Or is this the way you simply see it? And why not give them a refund for the setting but let them keep the stone?

Secondly, do you have any record of Steven claiming they would only fix the ring the second time if something was faulty? Because if that is the case, Fox would conclude the ring was fixed because it was indeed faulty.

Fox, do you have photos of the currently broken ring? It does seem strange to me that a ring could break because of a bump on a desk. I would second the notion to send it to an independent. Other jewelers often put down someone else''s work for their own gain. It was unprofessional for your local jeweler to call it a "piece of junk."

 

[RubyCharm]

I don''t get why they would fabricate some sort of story like that, especially when we''ve tried to get the existing setting fixed so many times already (obviously showing that we wanted to keep it).

This is just an idea: wouldn''t it be possible for the NSC to remake the same mounting in a different metal (such as white gold or platinum) and let you pay the price difference plus mounting fee so that you can keep your stone? I''m suggesting this option since it looks like you would really want to keep the same mounting style and your only problem is with its durability issues. Also, this way, the NSC couldn''t claim that you actually want them to subsidize a new setting from a different company.

 

[Harriet]

Fox, Michael,
If this dispute has reached the legal level, it might be better to keep it private.

 

[Fox2009]

I second your questions Travelinggal, and I''d be all for getting an independent evaluation, but, Michael hasn''t asked me to do that, he''s simply said, as you see, that we are trying to take advantage. I agree that would be a good way to get things evaluated! But I''m not going to do that unless it is requested, or unless it would really do any good.

I do not appreciate having Michael getting on this board and making it into a public "fight," as I do want to keep all interactions private. I just put this up as a warning to other buyers, and NOT for any other reason. So, Michael, if you have something to say, please email me privately.

But, I do have to say--I do not think it is nasty to tell a company that you will take the only avenues available to resolve a dispute if neccesary (i.e., contacting the BBB). I don''t think there is anything wrong with that, especially after trying to resolve things amicably first.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 3/23/2009 2:54:24 PM
Author: Fox2009
I second your questions Travelinggal, and I'd be all for getting an independent evaluation, but, Michael hasn't asked me to do that, he's simply said, as you see, that we are trying to take advantage. I agree that would be a good way to get things evaluated! But I'm not going to do that unless it is requested, or unless it would really do any good.


I do not appreciate having Michael getting on this board and making it into a public 'fight,' as I do want to keep all interactions private. I just put this up as a warning to other buyers, and NOT for any other reason. So, Michael, if you have something to say, please email me privately.


But, I do have to say--I do not think it is nasty to tell a company that you will take the only avenues available to resolve a dispute if neccesary (i.e., contacting the BBB). I don't think there is anything wrong with that, especially after trying to resolve things amicably first.

Of course there is nothing wrong with taking the avenues available-but NSC also has a right to defend their company when an accusation is made.

The reality is that none of us here know who is in the right. Which is why I suggested taking it for an independent appraisal.

If you think you are right, there should be no reason **not** to take it for an independent appraisal. Then you'll have more ammo rather than "he said'she said" when you go to the BBB, your lawyer, whatever.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 3/23/2009 3:01:24 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 3/23/2009 2:54:24 PM

Author: Fox2009

I second your questions Travelinggal, and I'd be all for getting an independent evaluation, but, Michael hasn't asked me to do that, he's simply said, as you see, that we are trying to take advantage. I agree that would be a good way to get things evaluated! But I'm not going to do that unless it is requested, or unless it would really do any good.



I do not appreciate having Michael getting on this board and making it into a public 'fight,' as I do want to keep all interactions private. I just put this up as a warning to other buyers, and NOT for any other reason. So, Michael, if you have something to say, please email me privately.



But, I do have to say--I do not think it is nasty to tell a company that you will take the only avenues available to resolve a dispute if neccesary (i.e., contacting the BBB). I don't think there is anything wrong with that, especially after trying to resolve things amicably first.

Of course there is nothing wrong with taking the avenues available-but NSC also has a right to defend their company when an accusation is made.


The reality is that none of us here know who is in the right. Which is why I suggested taking it for an independent appraisal.


If you think you are right, there should be no reason **not** to take it for an independent appraisal. Then you'll have more ammo rather than 'he said'she said' when you go to the BBB, your lawyer, whatever.

I was just going to post, when I saw your response NF. Michael did have a right to post Fox, after all you did make some serious accusations.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/23/2009 3:01:24 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 3/23/2009 2:54:24 PM
Author: Fox2009
I second your questions Travelinggal, and I''d be all for getting an independent evaluation, but, Michael hasn''t asked me to do that, he''s simply said, as you see, that we are trying to take advantage. I agree that would be a good way to get things evaluated! But I''m not going to do that unless it is requested, or unless it would really do any good.


I do not appreciate having Michael getting on this board and making it into a public ''fight,'' as I do want to keep all interactions private. I just put this up as a warning to other buyers, and NOT for any other reason. So, Michael, if you have something to say, please email me privately.


But, I do have to say--I do not think it is nasty to tell a company that you will take the only avenues available to resolve a dispute if neccesary (i.e., contacting the BBB). I don''t think there is anything wrong with that, especially after trying to resolve things amicably first.

Of course there is nothing wrong with taking the avenues available-but NSC also has a right to defend their company when an accusation is made.

The reality is that none of us here know who is in the right. Which is why I suggested taking it for an independent appraisal.

If you think you are right, there should be no reason **not** to take it for an independent appraisal. Then you''ll have more ammo rather than ''he said''she said'' when you go to the BBB, your lawyer, whatever.

Neatfreak, ya beat me to it girl.

big ditto, esp to highlighted parts. You put a post on a forum where it can impact a vendor''s business, the vendor has a right to defend themselves in a (hopefully) civil manner.

 

[Fox2009]

No where did I say Michael doesn''t have a right to post, of course he does. Everyone does. I just don''t appreciate having him level some pretty serious accusations at me. I''m just trying to say "buyer beware." But, while Michael may be defending himself and his co., he also is calling me a liar, for no necessary reason, which I have every right to defend against.

My point here, again, is not a Who is Right, Who is Wrong match, just a buyer beware alert. I didn''t mean for any disagreement or discord, just wanted to share my experience for the possible benefit of others, that is all.

My point, also, with this is to just say that if their customer service was slightly different, this would be resolved. It''s not a big complicated issue. If you have a lifetime guarantee, you should honor it, without forcing the customer to give up something they DO like and are sentimentally attached to, such as an engagement stone. I''d be happy to send in the ring for inspection, or to have it neutrally appraised...but I don''t want to lose my engagement stone. Would anyone?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/23/2009 3:19:12 PM
Author: Fox2009
No where did I say Michael doesn''t have a right to post, of course he does. Everyone does. I just don''t appreciate having him level some pretty serious accusations at me. I''m just trying to say ''buyer beware.'' But, while Michael may be defending himself and his co., he also is calling me a liar, for no necessary reason, which I have every right to defend against.

My point here, again, is not a Who is Right, Who is Wrong match, just a buyer beware alert. I didn''t mean for any disagreement or discord, just wanted to share my experience for the possible benefit of others, that is all.

My point, also, with this is to just say that if their customer service was slightly different, this would be resolved. It''s not a big complicated issue. If you have a lifetime guarantee, you should honor it, without forcing the customer to give up something they DO like and are sentimentally attached to, such as an engagement stone. I''d be happy to send in the ring for inspection, or to have it neutrally appraised...but I don''t want to lose my engagement stone. Would anyone?

haha, gal, you''re asking the wrong forum. We''ve got serial upgraders here, and yes, with the stone!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 3/23/2009 3:19:12 PM
Author: Fox2009
No where did I say Michael doesn''t have a right to post, of course he does. Everyone does. I just don''t appreciate having him level some pretty serious accusations at me. I''m just trying to say ''buyer beware.'' But, while Michael may be defending himself and his co., he also is calling me a liar, for no necessary reason, which I have every right to defend against.


My point here, again, is not a Who is Right, Who is Wrong match, just a buyer beware alert. I didn''t mean for any disagreement or discord, just wanted to share my experience for the possible benefit of others, that is all.


My point, also, with this is to just say that if their customer service was slightly different, this would be resolved. It''s not a big complicated issue. If you have a lifetime guarantee, you should honor it, without forcing the customer to give up something they DO like and are sentimentally attached to, such as an engagement stone. I''d be happy to send in the ring for inspection, or to have it neutrally appraised...but I don''t want to lose my engagement stone. Would anyone?

You leveled some pretty serious ones too though...

And why would you lose your stone if you send it to have it appraised?