bargaining with custom jeweler

[kogolden]

My bf and I have been in talks with a local jeweler to have a custom engagement ring made. The jeweler quoted us a price that is about $400-600 out of our budget. We''re wondering how much bargaining ability we have with the jeweler. I have read that it''s standard to bargain with jewelers over already made pieces, but how much luck will we have with a custom ring? He could always talk us down into something different within our price range, and it feels like we would be devaluing his custom work.

We are thinking about getting a quote from another jeweler in town, but this one has already sourced a sapphire for us of a very particular color that we like. If we offered to buy only the stone and take it to another jeweler, would that give us some bargaining power? Should we even bother? I HATE bartering, but we really love the design of our ring and the stone we found.

Does anyone have experience with this? Any advice is appreciated!

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I had my ring custom made and how much you bargin really depends. My ring was quite a bit, but the vast majority of that was because the cost of gold is so high and platimum is even higher. So unless you are making something very light on the metal, there is not much they can compromise on. I had a VERY complicated ring and took the jeweler over 9 hours to do the wax. But that cost less than a 3rd of what the gold for my ring cost. What you are asking to bring down is pretty much the entire amount of money the jeweler would make for doing your ring, I really doubt they will or that anyone else can do much better.

 

[Indylady]

Can you post a picture of the ring?

I probably wouldn''t try to bargain. I would, however, request quotes from a few vendors. This is completely acceptable, and unless I was set on a particular designer, something I would definitely do before commissioning a project.

I have no idea if buying the stone from this jeweler and saying that you might take it to another jeweler might give you bargaining power. I think that may verge on..blackmail. You want to have a relationship of trust with your jeweler. He/she is going to be handling and creating a ring that you''re going to be wearing for a long, long time. You don''t want to twist their arm into getting a better deal. I would have an honest discussion and make it clear that you can''t afford more than x dollars, but I would not attempt to leverage the jeweler in any way. Having a budget, and sticking to it, is important and I am sure your jeweler will understand that.

 

[kogolden]

Date: 4/22/2010 10:06:13 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy
I had my ring custom made and how much you bargin really depends. My ring was quite a bit, but the vast majority of that was because the cost of gold is so high and platimum is even higher. So unless you are making something very light on the metal, there is not much they can compromise on. I had a VERY complicated ring and took the jeweler over 9 hours to do the wax. But that cost less than a 3rd of what the gold for my ring cost. What you are asking to bring down is pretty much the entire amount of money the jeweler would make for doing your ring, I really doubt they will or that anyone else can do much better.

Thanks for your input!

That''s the way I felt, like I would be bartering away the cost of his work and time. However, this guy is the owner of the store, so it''s not as if he''s paid hourly and I know that all salesmen have price points for merchandise. So there is a markup on the center stone, the metal, and the stones in the band.

But, we are both wimpy negotiators and I wouldn''t even attempt it unless I felt like the jeweler expected it or knew we wouldn''t offend him. We just don''t want to overpay or get sucked into the "wedding industrial complex."

le sigh.

 

[VapidLapid]

Did you articulate your budget limits to the jeweler beforehand? I am unlikely to think that a small local jeweler is part of the "wedding industrial complex". He or she is a local small business owner, and so probably makes less than his or her wage earning employees with far more investment and risk. If, as it does seem, that this is both the stone you want and the ring that you want, I would say maybe look for other places you can economize. a few less flowers, no extra wasted pieces of paper in the wedding invitations, even go green and make the invitations entirely digital make a big deal out of the going green thing and save on invitations entirely to offset the ring! Gold costs are crazy right now, I had to pay $1200 an ounce today for 24kt casting grain. It sounds like this jeweler has already put a lot of time into your ring. Two year from now when you walk in there with a custom cut from Gene or Gary or Jeff he will know your name, ring size, style and metal preferences

 

[kogolden]

Date: 4/22/2010 10:43:16 PM
Author: IndyLady
Can you post a picture of the ring?


I probably wouldn''t try to bargain. I would, however, request quotes from a few vendors. This is completely acceptable, and unless I was set on a particular designer, something I would definitely do before commissioning a project.


I have no idea if buying the stone from this jeweler and saying that you might take it to another jeweler might give you bargaining power. I think that may verge on..blackmail. You want to have a relationship of trust with your jeweler. He/she is going to be handling and creating a ring that you''re going to be wearing for a long, long time. You don''t want to twist their arm into getting a better deal. I would have an honest discussion and make it clear that you can''t afford more than x dollars, but I would not attempt to leverage the jeweler in any way. Having a budget, and sticking to it, is important and I am sure your jeweler will understand that.

Thanks, IndyLady.

That''s good advice and we are going to get another quote or two. I guess I wasn''t thinking about threatening to take the stone to another jeweler just as a bargaining tactic, but actually doing that. Just thanking him for sourcing the stone, buy it, and go someplace cheaper. We really like the stone and are afraid we won''t have as much luck finding one the same color again. It does still feel like a jerk thing to do, but don''t people buy loose stones from jewelers all the time? We haven''t commissioned the ring yet and he hasn''t spent that much time with us.

Perhaps it''s rude though. He has a lot of experience and has given us good advice so far, so we don''t want to damage our relationship with him.

I can''t really post a picture... the design is based on a few different rings I''ve seen, but I can give some details.

The stone is a 1.26 carat antique cushion peach sapphire (very pale). I want it in a very narrow 14k rose gold band, (<3mm) with four small beadset diamonds (~1mm) on each side, millgrain along all edges and engraving on the rest of the band.

Thanks!

 

[Indylady]

That sounds gorgeous!! It reminds me somewhat of a pink/champagne diamond ring that is one of my favorites on PS link. I don''t see anything wrong with purchasing only the sapphire from your jeweler, unless there was an agreement of some sort that the stone only comes with one of his/her settings.

Buying a stone from a stone from a one vendor and having it set somewhere else is very common and not an issue at all. In fact, I usually buy both the setting, and the stone, from different vendors, and then have it set by my jeweler who sold me neither of the two. The ring you are describing does not seem very complicated, unless the engraving you''re seeking is something really out there. Does it have to be custom? It seems to me like you might be able to find a stock setting that fits the bill (thought you might have to add the engraving). This sounds somewhat like what you want: a solitare with bead set diamonds on a danity shank (this one might have a few more). I have this setting from this vendor, and I absolutely love it. You might be able to customize with a cushion head and a switch to rose gold with him and have the piece still be relatively less expensive than a custom piece. You might also try checking out Stuller for stock settings that you might like.

 

[arjunajane]

Indy has given great advice.

I second it - I would simply explain to the jeweller that you very much like his stone, his ideas and want to have the ring made with him - but that the quote is a bit over budget.
Perhaps imply that you are planning future projects, or a setting for a RHR and that you plan to be a repeat customer; make it clear you would like to have a long-term r''ship with them. This *could* give you some bargaining power.
A second or third quote also never hurts, although I would be careful about how you broach it if you get a lower one. There are many many variables in custom jewellery, and most B&M''s in a town will be familiar with each other''s businesses.

I can tell you though, having a good working relationship with a professional and skilled local jeweller - well, let''s just say I would pay a couple hundred $ just to have one!

Also, do you have a photo of your setting or something similar? It does sound like it is not an elaborate design, so customizing a stock could be a possible (cheaper) option..

 

[enbcfsobe]

i second all of the above...
another thing to think about is getting a better handle on how much markup there is on your stone. it sounds like an unusual color, but doesn''t seem like one that would carry a huge premium. when i had my custom ering done i was able to negotiate the price of the diamond to a level that was competitive with online pricing, but decided not to press on the price of the custom setting, since that''s the only place where the jeweler was really making any real profit. i would definitely ask him about options to use a stock setting as a base -- that can be a huge savings. when you do get quotes from other people, i would make sure you ask a lot of questions about how they will make the setting (will it be based on a stock shank? will there be grooves underneath the shank that reduce metal weight?) that''s the only way you can really know if you''re getting a "deal" by going with the less expensive quote or whether you''re not really getting what you want at all.
best of luck -- your ring idea sounds gorgeous!

 

[Sagebrush]

Hey can a Custom Jeweler chime in:

First, what is "custom." Are we talking ordering parts from a catalog and then soldering them together and setting the stones? That is what passes for custom in most of the industry. Some even call that a hand made original. If so, you can probably compare, shop the jeweler.

If by "custom" you mean designed and made from scratch, the problem is more difficult. If you bought the stone from him that helps. I am more likely to give a break on the stone. I know that I work parts and labor and am not inclined to bargain. Real master goldsmiths are quite expensive and you work out the materials and per hour charge based on overhead. However, if you buy a very fine high end stone, I will often make the custom setting for free.

Best,

 

[kogolden]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone!

Indy-- That first link you posted is THE RING! I found a picture of it by google search a few weeks ago and have been lurking on PS ever since! My ring is based on that one and an engraved band the jeweler had in his store.

As you all can probably tell, we''re pretty green at this. This is my first foray into jewelery that''s not plastic. When we first approached this jeweler we were just trying to get an idea of what a custom ring would cost and where to set our budget, and before we knew it he had sourced a stone for us. It just felt like we were moving very quickly and we haven''t had time to talk to any other jewelers.

The stone is cheaper than (or at least close to) what we have seen online (from nsc, gemselect, et al) for stones of comparable size and color (and the stones from those vendors seem very poorly cut IMO). In fact the cost of the custom band with the tiny diamonds is about 3x the cost of the stone.

Your all''s comments on the price of gold has given me some perspective. It doesn''t seem like we have much negotiating room.

I have thought about looking for a stock ring. After looking at more rings, mine doesn''t seem so unique, but it doesn''t seem like there are a lot of options in rose gold. Also, the jeweler said he could mix the rose gold to make it the shade we want. This way, we could be sure that the color will really compliment the stone well.

So I guess now I''m leaning toward sucking it up, saving some extra money and relishing the extra attention I''m getting from a custom jeweler.

 

[Sagebrush]

Kogomoden,

Yes good point, two years ago and for the previous decade we were working at $500+- per ounce now its $1,300. If its been on the shelf for more than two years, grad it. Most jewelers, if they are smart will reprice because failing to do so will quickly reduce your capital and margin when reordering.

A major recession coupled with a 60% increase in the price of materials has hurt.

 

[chrono]

There usually isn’t much negotiating room with a custom setter but you are definitely fine with purchasing just the stone, then getting quotes from various custom setters to select which one will fit your needs best based on price, customer service and quality of workmanship. One thing that jumped up at me is the 1.26 ct antique cushion pale peach sapphire you’ve selected. You said that it is cheaper than what can be found online. Out of curiousity, do you know the level of treatment of the stone? It’s great that you’ve got such a good deal from your jeweller but I’d like to be sure that you are getting what you are supposed to be getting.

 

[kogolden]

The jeweler said that the stone is natural, not even heat treated. Though I wouldn''t expect a stone so pale to be BE treated or anything like that. On a scale of 1-10 (1=white, 10=opaque) it''s a 3. It''s not a popular color, either.

These are the specs he sent me; I asked later about the treatment. The stone is $425.
* Type: Sapphire
* Cut: Antique Cushion Faceted
* Clarity: Eye Clean
* Carats: 1.26 (0.252 grams)
* Color: OR
* GemEWizard™ Color: 7-2-2
(Orangey Yellow : Very Light : Slightly Grayish/brownish)
* MM Size: 8.10 x 5.70 x 3.00
* Fluorescence: NONE

The custom ring I described is about $1200. Given the high cost of gold, this doesn''t seem unreasonable to me now. (It didn''t exactly seem unreasonable to me before, I just really had no idea) When we set out, we had hoped to get a ring for about $1000.

Should I ask for a certificate for the stone?

We are thinking about putting about 8 1mm round diamonds in the band. How much should those cost?

 

[oddoneout]

Good luck with your ring. It sounds very pretty.

 

[kogolden]

Oh, and to comment on your point, Richard, I think he is doing a true custom job. I didn''t ask directly (wouldn''t have occurred to me), but he''s spoken about mixing the gold himself, designing it using CAD, etc. He has very little stock merchandise in his store, and told us that this is because most of what he does is custom work. He hasn''t shown us any catalogs and though he sells some merchandise on his website, he doesn''t credit any brands like other jewelry stores do. Perhaps all the pieces in his store are his own work?

 

[StonieGrl]

All good points from the PSers and from Richard. Especially regarding the diff between "custom" and a jeweler Frankensteining a ring together from stock parts, LOL.

That price looked pretty good to me.