BE treated sapphire prices

[colormyworld]

I can not understand why a gem dealer would treat a sapphire only to make the stone worth less money per carat than if untreated. Take white sapphires for instance. The price of these have risen drastically due to BE treatment. Can someone please explain why a white sapphire treated to orange would sell for less than the same stone untreated?

 

[morecarats]

Gem dealers, especially in Thailand, are pretty savvy (perhaps too savvy). No one would go to the trouble of treating a gem only to sell it for less than the value of the untreated stone. Beryllium diffusion of gemstones is time consuming, expensive and somewhat dangerous.

Your assumption that white sapphires are beryllium diffused to produce orange and red stones is mistaken. The raw material used for these diffused stones is typically unattractive browns, greens and greys, mostly from the Songea region of Tanzania. These gems have very little value until treated.

 

[T L]

The raw material used for these diffused stones is typically unattractive browns, greens and greys, mostly from the Songea region of Tanzania. These gems have very little value until treated.

. . . and they can charge whatever they want for them, but I wouldn't buy that gravel for anything.

 

[PrecisionGem]

There are a lot of people, (most) who could care less if a sapphire is Be treated. They look vivid, are pretty, so they sell. Not everyone is concerned about treatments. We only buy organic produce and grass fed, organic beef. It cost more. Most people buy corn feed beef from the local supper market. Same thing.

 

[T L]

There are a lot of people, (most) who could care less if a sapphire is Be treated. They look vivid, are pretty, so they sell. Not everyone is concerned about treatments. We only buy organic produce and grass fed, organic beef. It cost more. Most people buy corn feed beef from the local supper market. Same thing.

Very true, but when I see high sapphire prices being charged for be-treated material, that's where I turn red.

Treatments don't bother me, it's the deception and lies behind them. If all treatments were disclosed, I would be a happy camper. Like the meat example you used in the supermarket, treatment is disclosed by law. You can't put the word "organic,", "hormone free," or "grass fed" if the animal was not truly those things. However, the gem trade is loosely watched and so many companies, even the big names in the jewelry business, get away with non disclosure, or going around it.

Personally for me, I would have a problem buying a stone that once looked like road gravel, and is nice due to diffusion or some other invasive treatment. However, I don't hold it against another person for getting a be-treated stone IF they know what they're getting, and IF they're paying a fair price. Unfortunately, many times, that is not the case. They're often overpaying for these gems.

 

[minousbijoux]

Now if only they could come up with grass fed, organic stones...

 

[colormyworld]

Road gravel is exactly what most gemstones look like in their natural state.

 

[T L]

Fine gems can often look very beautiful before cutting, and fine gems are the types of gems that be-treated stones are trying to emulate.

 

[Lee Little]

Ahh, here is a better place to discuss the Be treatment, thank you!
Be treatment is one treatment that the general public will eventually accept. Why would I say such a thing about a treatment that tricked huge sums of money out of people before it was figured out? Very simply, it produces extraordinary colored Sapphires that seemingly do not fade, or ever wear out and they are safe for buyers/owners. What's not to like?
The Red Sapphire, which we used to think was best titled a Ruby, are a hot seller in many countries. This color of red does not look like a normal Ruby colored by Chromium, more orange than any Ruby but a startling and exciting color. A well cut Sapphire in such a hot color will catch any gem lover's eye. These beautiful enhanced stones are not common, yes, heating with a Beryl product IS common but to have a large size in good clarity and a hot color does not happen in any high percentage. Expect a real price but still a bargain.
It can never be known how long Sapphires that have been heated with a Beryl product have been around. At least several decades ago it was happening by accident during traditional heat treatment. Chrysoberyl cat's eye rough was sometimes mixed into the Sapphire rough, undetected. It most all looks like driveway gravel at this point. Much to the surprise of the cookers, Orange and Yellow Sapphires would come out of the oven that they had not noticed before they went in. Eventually they figured out the mystery and started to add any Beryl rough to the mix. That is when things got ugly as they did not disclose and many folks, mainly Japanese, paid way too much for 'Padparacha' Sapphire. The treaters made out like bandits and they should not have done that as now people tend to think of this treatment as 'bad' but really the dishonesty was what was bad, not the treatment.
I like odd stuff and heating Sapphire with a Beryl product delivers just that. Bi-color blue and yellow Sapphires, purple and red blends, green and yellow, on and on. Really cool looking stuff that used to extremely rare now happens regularly so the price is great.
Just to clarify, many treatments such as those using hot radioactive materials and those that use fillers such as leaded glass and resins, I wish they never existed. Products that are dangerous hold no interest for me. Products that wear out hold little interest for me.
Best regards, Lee

 

[colormyworld]

Thank you LL. It would seem that those looking for beauty with an inexpensive price would love these stones.

 

[T L]

There is a place in the market for be-treated stones, no doubt, and I never suggested they should go away. My whole issue is the growing prevalence of them in the retail market, along with non-disclosure of what they are, and the high prices charged (akin to natural untreated sapphires). As for myself, I can only speak for myself when I say that when it comes to sapphires, I would never want a be-treated stone for myself. I am worried that finding a natural unheated sapphire will be a thing so rare one of these days that you'll only get to see them in museums and in old pieces of jewelry. There is also something to be said about appreciating mother nature's own work too.

Let us also not forget the growing prevalence of synthetics that are also very deceiving, and can only be detected by expensive equipment. Therefore, it's not just be-treatment we have to worry about in regards to non-disclosure with sapphires.

 

[colormyworld]

I started this thread to discuss pricing for BE treated sapphires. Not whether you personalty TL would want one. Can we please stay on topic here.

Little Lee can you give us some idea of realistic pricing of these stones?

 

[morecarats]

Here in Thailand beryllium diffused sapphires typically sell for $15 (for small sizes) to $45 (for 1-4 carat) stones, with larger sizes and exceptional colors/very clean stones at higher prices. Prices on diffused sapphires have going up the last few years as they find their place in the market.

TL, your opinions liven up this forum. Don't be intimidated by the thread nazis.

 

[morecarats]

Here in Thailand beryllium diffused sapphires typically sell for $15 (for small sizes) to $45 (for 1-4 carat) stones, with larger sizes and exceptional colors/very clean stones at higher prices. Prices on diffused sapphires have going up the last few years as they find their place in the market.

TL, your opinions liven up this forum. Don't be intimidated by the thread nazis.

These prices are per carat.

 

[Arkteia]

I have read that Beryllium actually penetrates the surface so a chip may be hard to re-cut because of this. I assume it is not true for newest Be-treatment, which is deaper but still not to the core. That could present a problem for a recut, for example.
I think recently someone on this forum reminded again that MOH's index indicates only resistance to scratchiness and that stones can be chipped or broken. (I think we spoke about emeralds). Imagine a horrible scenario: your last sapphire split in two, or there is a large crack. Then you find out that in fact you end up with two halves of a melon which can not be really cut into something tiny but still beautiful.

 

[Lee Little]

I started this thread to discuss pricing for BE treated sapphires. Not whether you personalty TL would want one. Can we please stay on topic here.

Little Lee can you give us some idea of realistic pricing of these stones?

Prices are of course never standard in a diversified market such as Chanthaburi but morecarats numbers are at least a rough guide. Much will depend on whether one is buying an entire parcel in a wholesale Asian market or just one stone in a highly developed country. Cut and clarity are also huge factors as well as colors and the location of the final destination they will go to be retailed.
I have seen the small eye clean stones in wholesale parcels of 100 carats in a yellow color go for $3 a carat. Retail on similar stones in a small quantity in the states will be closer to $30, just move the decimal point.
I see stones over 2 carat here in hot colors like red or orange with good clarity sell for $90 a carat in a wholesale market. What they sell for in a jewelry store in the states I do not know. The $45 for up to 4 carats I have only seen in stones that are not eye clean. A 4 carat with eye clean clarity and a hot color will command at least $100 a carat wholesale and I see larger premium stones sell for $300 per carat. How much they sell for once they reach Europe, Dubai etc. I do not know.
The range of $3 to $300 on a wholesale level is a wide range but I am sure the range is actually wider in both directions than what I see. Best regards, Lee

 

[Lee Little]

I have read that Beryllium actually penetrates the surface so a chip may be hard to re-cut because of this. I assume it is not true for newest Be-treatment, which is deaper but still not to the core. That could present a problem for a recut, for example.
I think recently someone on this forum reminded again that MOH's index indicates only resistance to scratchiness and that stones can be chipped or broken. (I think we spoke about emeralds). Imagine a horrible scenario: your last sapphire split in two, or there is a large crack. Then you find out that in fact you end up with two halves of a melon which can not be really cut into something tiny but still beautiful.

That is an excellent point. In the earlier ones that were enhanced on purpose they heated after cutting then repolished as it did not penetrate very far. Now they are constantly improving the technique so they heat only the rough as the penetration is much better. A chip is likely not to be a problem these days but if it broke in two one may have an odd bird. Of course Sapphire is not only resistant to scratches but is also one of the toughest stones we have on the planet. The chances of breaking a clean Sapphire are very slim compared to almost any other stone. That is the big reason we see so many treatments on Sapphires, they are tough and can take it. Best regards, Lee