Bill Bray diamonds may not appraise - brayscore.com

[jeffkics]

I did some business with Bill Bray, a diamond cutter, appraiser and seller, for an engagement ring.

Long story short he sold me something not worth anywhere near what I paid.

If you would like to read the whole story you can find it posted here

www.brayscores.com


I didn't want to post it here because it is long, but if you would like to read it and then post your replys here I would be more than happy hearing your opinions.

Even drop him a nice email, to let him know people know what he did.

My one question is do you think I have a case against him, if i wanted to either get a partial refund, or a full refund?

I hope he doesn't do this to anyone else.

Thank you,
Jeff

 

[Mara]

eh bad luck story sounds like...yes this is not uncommon.




many reputable jewelers will take back a diamond for what you paid as long as you buy a certain % over in trade up. this is what i would insist upon.




diamonds are not necessarily going to be worth what you paid for it 6 years ago, unfortunately. the market can rise and fall, this is why some people say diamonds are not a good investment. I don't know what sort of case you have because of the 6 year time window and the fact that his upgrade policy was not what you hoped it might be...all of this should have been in writing 6 years ago.




you can always get the diamond graded by GIA...I don't know what you mean by GIA standards, but you can send any stone to GIA to have them grade it. it may come back better than you think. just because one other appraiser said that Bill's appraisal amount was overinflated does not mean that new appraiser was entirely right either. appraisers are still people, they may not entirely appraise EXACTLY as someone else did. only the gem lab can verify a diamond and as you note, GIA is higly reputable. I think it costs something like $200 to get GIA to grade a stone.




you may also try to re-sell the stone or talk to a consignment house or find a jeweler who will take the diamond as trade provided you spend a certain amount with them. you never know.




i applaud that you want people to know what happened to you but unfortunately, this happens alot of times with not enough education. my two cents is to just salvage what you can from your initial sale through a re-sale or re-grading and upgrade, and move on.




best of luck!

 

[jeffkics]

Still no contact. I have repeatedly tried to contact him, without any response. Looks like I am on my own, and stuck with a worthless diamond that Mr. Bray claimed to be the best.

Bill Bray

 

[valeria101]

You say:
" my understanding is that a diamond should be worth at the very least the same or more than it did in the past. Wouldn’t you?"

The answer is no

About a third of the monetary value of a diamond would be lost if YOU (as posed to ANY trade member) try to sell a diamond bought yesterday, tomorrow. This is how things work - no plot, just a weird market where buyers strongly prefer to buy from the trade. The more plausible explanation to this is trust, I would think, although it is very debatable why and how this trust is founded as you unfortunately know first hand.

At least this seems to be a rather popular piece of info among diamond selling websites, and definitely here (there are lots of older threads about the resale "value" of diamonds).

This is why you will see so many sellers offering return and upgrade policies - to compensate for the disappointment of buyers who would think a valuable gem would also be a valuable investment.

I doubt the original seller would really contact his attorney - if he did not offer any explicit return or upgrade policy when he sold the stone, he may not have any reason to worry about your action.


Of course it is a good think to hear that a seller stands behind the quality of his merchandise. to me, that means that the seller would recognize that the diamond will hold it's value at least under the preferred sale conditions as noted above, and accept it back for the sake of a new sale.

But the wave of "upgrade policies" seems to be younger than your purchase ! Given the outrageous price quote for the new stone, it is obvious ( to me, at least) that the seller just does not want to accept the diamond back by ALL means.

Now, how bad can it be? The whole unpleasant negotiation cannot make a diamond sparkle less - it is one perfectly innocent piece of rock in a difficult situation. And it could be certified, appraised and perhaps recut to get it's honor back, if you would consider.

As long as your appraiser has no interest in the deal ( = "independent appraiser", definitely different from seller!), and the jeweler dealing with the process of "diamond restoration" (does this sound bad

?) sounds sincere, this could be just one random lesson learned

Hope this long note makes some sense.

 

[valeria101]

And I do have a reason to ask "how bad can this be"...

First, I do not know what the stone is like.

Second, for any given GIA-labeled color, clarity and weight (this is taken as a 10 points interval, avoiding some famous price "jumps"), the price per carat varies anywhere between 20% and 65% among quotes for different stones and/or from different sellers. This is due to factors not accounted for by the weight, clarity and color grades (reputable as these may be) such as cut and premiums, of course.

Conclusion: up to some limit, it may not be fair to compare anything with the bottom price based on color, clarity and weight alone. So your stone could actually not be that bad a deal. And buying offline would come at a premium anyway.

I can only hope that the awful process you describe was not just as bad as the outcome. I am definitely not tring to defend the missleading communication that your diamond came wraped into, there definitely is much better.

 

[CaptAubrey]

----------------
On 7/1/2004 2:05:34 PM jeffkics wrote:







My one question is do you think I have a case against him, if i wanted to either get a partial refund, or a full refund?

---------------

no.

if you had gotten an appraisal immediately afterward that described the diamond as being something other than as represented, maybe. but six years after the fact? don't put a lot of weight on the appraisal you got with the ring when you bought it--in most cases, those are inflated, sometimes grossly so.

the market for fancy cut stones like pear shapes tends to fluctuate a lot more than for rounds because different shapes pass in and out of style. squares are hot right now; pears are not.

some jewelers offer lifetime upgrade policies, but they're hardly required to do so.