Bought this diamond a long time ago. Did I get what I paid for? HCA average, GIA cut excellent...

[Vale]

It took me quite a long time, precisely 12 to 15 months, to get this far with my knowledge of diamonds. The HCA model finally cleared my doubts about it all. Or did it, as I write here today looking for comments, opinions, and words from the wise?

I originally wanted a larger-than-usual, (quasi) two-carat diamond with an incredible shine and “wow!” factor. The jeweler introduced me to a GIA gem certified on my birthday standing at 1.96 carats, which I was told is not common and could save me money. Well, my birthday on it did the trick. I bought the diamond with the specs below:

Report Check for
GIA Report Number: 16221180

Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report


Date of Issue: August 10, 2007


Round Brilliant


Measurements: 8.09 - 8.14 x 4.88 mm


Carat Weight: 1.96

Color Grade: I


Clarity Grade: VS2


Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:

Depth: 60.1 %

Table: 61 %

Crown Angle: 32.5°

Crown Height: 12.5 %

Pavilion Angle: 41.6°

Pavilion Depth: 44 %

Star length: 55 %

Lower Half: 80 %

Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: Faint


Comments: Additional clouds are not shown.

Thinking that I had the best cut out there per the GIA Report, I bought the rock for $14,500 on layaway, no interest, and a minimum monthly payment of $300. I truly believe that more research would not have affected my decision in the short term, as the HCA grade below was not in my bag of tricks.

Factor Grade
Light Return Good
Fire Fair
Scintillation Fair
Spread
or diameter for weight Excellent
Total Visual Performance 4.9 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion


So what, exactly, did I end up with? I get the feeling that I got what I paid for, as cliched as it sounds. I have not looked at the gem in over a year, since I work long hours and never go downtown. The stone looked big and impressive when I saw it, and my "wife" loved it. But then again, my "wife" is not high maintenance and she would be happy no matter what I give her. She is a tall woman, with proportionately larger hands (she is an ex b-ball player), so the diamond had to be this size or larger for me to be content.

Should I attempt to barter an upgrade for an extra grand or two? Should I be at peace with a diamond that is a solid performer given its carat weight, spread and, perhaps, a slightly better sparkle than its numbers suggest given its faint fluorescence?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

 

[swingirl]

I am confused so please clarify. Are you saying you bought this stone a year ago and it is still on Layaway and at the jewelers? And if so, are you able to upgrade it now after a year, before it''s paid off?

 

[Vale]

Yes, it is on layaway after more than one year. It could continue to be that way for much longer if I keep making the minimum payment as agreed. I have paid for half the diamond at this point in time. The jeweler may or may not exchange it for an upgrade, which is why I am wondering whether bartering in a scenario like this is common, and whether I should attempt to do so at all given the diamond specs I provided. My first inclination is not to barter for an upgrade, but if the diamond I chose is indeed a lemon, I might consider it.

Thank you for the response.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I did a quick search and the price looks inline with a diamond with that size and spec. Here is the bad news - I don''t think it is the best cut as you saw in the score (below 2 is ideal). I think you can get a better cut diamond at that price.

 

[Vale]

I believe this was a case in which doing my homework would not have mattered unless I had found this site. I do have a small gripe with the GIA, however. They should not be calling a diamond's cut "excellent" if it truly is not excellent. I suppose the diamond cannot be terrible, though, or we would be having a revolution in the diamond business. I am sure finer cuts for my diamond that suit the best proportions exist. Is it worth going through all the hassle of trying to change the stone for that added sparkle? Is the difference between a 4.9 and a 3.0 that noticeable at a dinner table that I should consider bartering with a jeweler? Would a jeweler even barter at all?

 

[Dancing Fire]

yes, i would upgrade the "cut quality" if you still have that option.

 

[swingirl]

If you read about the HCA you'll see that the desired range is 2 and below. 2-4 is the next range considered Very Good. GIA has a much broader range of what they consider Excellent. AGS is much tighter.

Your jeweler might be willing to swap your stone for another and if he gives you the GIA specs for depth, table, crown angle and pavllion angle for other choices, you could run them through the HCA and avoid poorly performing stones.

But I wouldn't figure you'd find the same size and specs for the same price in a well-cut stone.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I just want to correct something I stated above. I meant to say that I don''t think you can get a better cut at that price. It will require a lot of digging.

 

[strmrdr]

based on the average and rounded gia numbers I think the hca score is a little harsh.
The predicted AGS score is 2. on a 0 to 10 scale.
Looking at virtual images the predicted AGS score is more accurate if it has reasonable optical symmetry.

It certainly wouldn't be what I would call excellent but it isn't what I would call just good either.
Somewhere in the VG range would be more fitting based on the gia provided numbers which are not good enough to form an exact opinion.

 

[Kelli]

I have a MAJOR beef with the GIA too, so I totally understand. I made the mistake of believing my "excellent" cut stone would also truly be excellent, and bought it before I knew much about the whole crown and pavilion angle HCA information. My stone scored a 4.3 on the HCA. I didn''t even find the HCA until I started doing research on why my excellent cut diamond had a large dull spot in the middle of it. I had mine recut, but if you can still try for a better cut through the same vendor, why not at least see about it?

On the other hand, if your soon to be wife loves it and is not picky, only you can decide whether it would be worth it to you. Good luck either way!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 1/8/2009 2:28:47 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
yes, i would upgrade the ''cut quality'' if you still have that option.

2nd. I would also upgrade cut quailty EVEN if it means going smaller in size. For a nearly 2 ct diamond, a lot of attention is attracted and the last thing you want is a "fair" 2-ct stone that says size is more important than quality. You said you want a BIG stone, but what about trading the 1.96 for a FABULOUSLY dynamite cut 1.60-1.70 (or so?). I realize you''re going to have to upgrade from that jeweler, but just a bit of persepctive. . .there is a highly impressive 1.76 on WF that''s $15K. Surely if you go slightly smaller, you get get a better diamond from the jeweler you''re currently working with. . .

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1466935.htm

 

[Vale]

Thank you very much for all your responses. To strmrdr, I take it that you looked up the stone’s parameters in an analogous AGS model for determining cut grade. If that is the case, I appreciate you taking the time to do so. From what I understood, you are cautiously saying that there is a chance that the diamond may fall between good and very good per the AGS figures.

I would be willing to go higher with cut grade (from excellent to truly excellent, right, Kelli?), but I want to stay close to two carats. At this point, would bartering with a jeweler now be the same as trading it in later? The sale was final, so if exchanging now or later is pretty much the same, then perhaps I should give her the diamond and make the upgrade in the near future.

I will leave the upgrade topic for a later date, though I hear that trading in is almost always a losing proposition. Is this true?

Thanks again!

 

[strmrdr]

First step is talk to the jeweler and see if he is willing to work with you on it.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/8/2009 12:39:52 PM
Author: Vale

Thank you very much for all your responses. To strmrdr, I take it that you looked up the stone’s parameters in an analogous AGS model for determining cut grade. If that is the case, I appreciate you taking the time to do so. From what I understood, you are cautiously saying that there is a chance that the diamond may fall between good and very good per the AGS figures.

Somewhere around VG I would say.
A lot depends on the actual numbers and optical symmetry.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/8/2009 12:39:52 PM
Author: Vale


[snip]
I will leave the upgrade topic for a later date, though I hear that trading in is almost always a losing proposition. Is this true?

Thanks again!

Not necessarily. Many "good" dealers allow 100% credit for trade-ins, some subject to the new item being somewhat more expensive than the previous one ("somewhat" goes between $1 and 100% more).

I would also encourage you not to give up hope - while the HCA is a useful tool, it's not the be-all and end-all predictive model of diamond looks that some seem to think it is. Take a read through this... and take the time to compare your diamond with others that are higher HCA scorers (or higher scorers according to whatever model or technology you choose). Only consider changing if you find that you consistently like them more in as many different lighting conditions as possible - simply having a higher score on any tool does not mean it's "better".

 

[honey22]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:25:02 AM
Author: MC

Date: 1/8/2009 2:28:47 AM

Author: Dancing Fire

yes, i would upgrade the ''cut quality'' if you still have that option.

2nd. I would also upgrade cut quailty EVEN if it means going smaller in size. For a nearly 2 ct diamond, a lot of attention is attracted and the last thing you want is a ''fair'' 2-ct stone that says size is more important than quality. You said you want a BIG stone, but what about trading the 1.96 for a FABULOUSLY dynamite cut 1.60-1.70 (or so?). I realize you''re going to have to upgrade from that jeweler, but just a bit of persepctive. . .there is a highly impressive 1.76 on WF that''s $15K. Surely if you go slightly smaller, you get get a better diamond from the jeweler you''re currently working with. . .


http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1466935.htm

Ditto. I well cut stone will outshine a poorly cut larger counterpart anyday. Ideal cuts sparkle like made and they just look bigger and brighter. I doubt you can get a refund now, but your jeweller may work with you to get you a better cut stone instead.

Good luck!

 

[Vale]

Thank you for your insight. My mind was originally focused on upgrading the
diamond’s color to at least a G before I realized that my cut was not as “excellent” as I had believed. Everyone’s input gives me enough information to conclude that a jump to something “ideal” with the color I ultimately want will cost significantly more, putting on hold my diamond surprise even further. (We looked at the diamond together, but she does not know that I actually bought it.)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Did she love that diamond when she saw it? You know, I think that is going to be the most wonderful surprise! You wanted to give her something really wonderful and you were willing to take as long as necessary to be able to buy it for her. What a great hubby you are!

I''ve been on this forum for a long time, and I am as hooked on numbers as anyone else here. But I think the price you got was fair, and at least in terms of GIA, the stone is excellent. My understanding is that they made their grades after seeking thousands of opinions on actual stones. So I would find it hard to believe that the stone was not pretty. In fact, you must have thought it was beautiful to have bought it, right?

My opinion is this. I''d probably ask the jeweler if you could exchange it if he was able to access a stone with more ideal specs. But if you''d lose money doing so, I just wouldn''t do it. And I think 1.96 is a fantastic size!!! Just keep your wife off PS so she doesn''t become OCD on numbers like we are!

 

[ButterBean]

Should I attempt to barter an upgrade for an extra grand or two? Should I be at peace with a diamond that is a solid performer given its carat weight, spread and, perhaps, a slightly better sparkle than its numbers suggest given its faint fluorescence?

Hi Vale,
You''re getting good advice already, but I would add that the fluorescence, while desirable by many people, won''t produce better sparkle. If it''s stronger than medium, it should give a blueish or lavenderish tint to the diamond in the sun or under fluorescent lighting. Personally, I think it would be lovely!
Best wishes! -BB

 

[Vale]

Thank you for the kind words. I know that she will be completely in shock when she sees it.

I hope (dream) to give it to her this year if we can make it to Bordeaux. We are serious wine collectors and the place that would mean the most to me is in front of a famous arch at Leoville Las Cases, which is immortalized on the wine’s label. The arch has a lion on top of it, coinciding with my sign. It would be nice to look at the legendary label and remember something special like this.

I will ask about a possible exchange when I go to the store. But if the diamond looks good and strikes my eye, I may as well just keep it and return for a stone with a higher color and better proportions. When I first went there, I did tell them that I wanted to get something bigger than average. In the end, that is what they offered me and what she liked, though she probably would have loved anything sparkly.

 

[Kelli]

This proposal idea sounds wonderful! You''re a great guy for giving it so much thought. If she really loved the stone in the first place and you are open to trading it down the road if she changes her mind, then keeping it might be the best thing. Most people really arent into the numbers as much as we are.

 

[jstarfireb]

If you can''t trade it in for a smaller diamond of better cut quality, you could see if it might be amenable to a recut after the purchase is complete. I think the best time to bring this up with her would be a few weeks to months after the proposal. You could explain how you bought the diamond thinking the cut was top-notch, then found PS, and since you want the best for her, you''d like to take it to a jeweler to see if the cut could be tweaked. There are some great stories from people who have gotten awesome recuts here.