Can''t believe I''m doing this.

[Gypsy]

I just, somehow ran into an old engagement leading to divorce... it was a poll, nothing serious... but it''s late and well, it''s FAIRLY anoymous here... so WFT.

I love my fiance... and I''ve been stalling our marriage for... years. Oh god. This is going to sound terrible, and I feel like such an idiot. But... please don''t flame me... I KNOW better but... he''s got such potential. He''s so perfect in so many ways... but he''s also an irresponsible dreamer who can''t get his shit to together long enough to get a stable career... or a decent education. And there are always, always excuses.
He just started trying to sell realestate and already he''s talking about become a developer or a resturant owner. And, I know people who are focused enough to say... okay I''m going to sell realestate for NOW, but in 5 years... I''ll have bought a nice peice of land and started developing it... but trust me, we''ve been together for 6+ years, he is just not this focused. I was so happy with the real estate thing.

Okay, clearly, I''m venting.

But all this leap froging to restuarants and development is... JUST LIKE THE LAST 6 years. First it was, I quit wallstreet ONE WEEK before taking my series seven because the company moved (why couldn''t you just look for another firm?), then it was I want to be a writer... then it was, you know to be a writer I need to finish college, I''ll go back, then it was I can''t take school, I have a problem with authority (bucking it to be precise), SO... then it was well, I''ve been working at a hotel (so he could get through school) and maybe getting into catering and sales at the hotel will be good, Oh no... they haven''t promoted me immediately, so clearly this isn''t going to work, then it was office work, he got carpel tunnel, and now it''s real estate.

Money is a CONSTANT ISSUE. He''s always borrowing from his mother... sho just keeps giving, and giving.... and he feels bad about it... but CHRIST he''s 32!

Argh. How can I commit to marriage when he can''t commit to a career for stability. And when will he stop being such a freaking dreamer... and WHY do I keep staying around, waiting for a man to change when he clearly never will. And why can''t I walk away.

So, yes, I think long engagements mask bigger issues that lead to divorce.

But god. I KNOW better than to commit to a guy hoping he''ll change.... But he''s never going to is he?

What am I going to do?

 

[lisaC]

Deep down you already know the answer. yes you are upset now but you''ve given him the benefit of the doubt for 6 years now...Remember your needs are important too and love is not enough.
courage and good wishes.
lisaC

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/15/2005 4:17:05 AM
Author:Gypsy

Money is a CONSTANT ISSUE. He's always borrowing from his mother... sho just keeps giving, and giving.... and he feels bad about it... but CHRIST he's 32!

Argh. How can I commit to marriage when he can't commit to a career for stability. And when will he stop being such a freaking dreamer... and WHY do I keep staying around, waiting for a man to change when he clearly never will. And why can't I walk away.

So, yes, I think long engagements mask bigger issues that lead to divorce.

But god. I KNOW better than to commit to a guy hoping he'll change.... But he's never going to is he?

What am I going to do?

when you wake him up from his dreams. pour some cold water on his face.

seriously,you must have a long talk with him.

 

[Lorelei]

Gypsy I can relate to how you are feeling. When I was in a situation with an ex boyfriend years ago, the best advice I was given was that this is how it is and how it will be. Is this what you want for the rest of your life? I decided immediately no. If it bothers you now, it will probably get worse. I am not saying that a potential marriage partner is necessarily a perfect fit, but you both have to have the same goals, especially long term, and how you plan to travel through life together to meet them. Any huge differences between you should be ones that you can realistically live with for many years. It sounds as if he has difficulty in deciding what he wants, you need to decide what is truly going to make you happy. After all this time, you know how life with him is going to be. Maybe you could talk to him and both compromise if you feel you want to commit to this relationship, but it will probably take a lot of effort from both of you. Maybe he won't want to change and neither will you. I think you need to do a lot of soul searching and tell him how you truly feel. I think people can adapt a bit, but we are what we are and sometimes with the best will in the world, nothing will change that. You have been with this guy a long time and it will be scary trying to sort this out, or even deciding you don't want to - but as has already been said, your happiness and needs are important too. I hope you find a way to come to the right decision, don't rush into anything unless you are sure. Good luck.

 

[IrishEyes]

I''m sorry you are so frustrated and going through this!

My advice? Keep your options open. Maybe take a trial separation and spend some time on your own. Get to know yourself again and what YOU want in life. Be realistic and really look at the big picture. Someone above said that love is not enough. THis is very true - unfortunately, love ISN''T enough. as Lorelei said, you need to have the same goals and be on the same page - a marriage cannot work very well when the people in it want two different things (or one doesnt'' know what he wants at all)

A few years back before I was married, I dated a guy like that. He had no clue. He was 25 at the time, living with his mom and stepdad. He went from job to job, got fired alot because he didn''t understand punctuality and dedication. He thought a paycheck for $250 was alot of money!

All he cared about was hanging out with his loser friends, smoking dope and playing with his DJ equipment (he thought he was going to be a famous DJ one day

). So I told him I needed a break. I told him I needed one week. Don''t call me, email me, etc. It was a glorious week!!! I went out with my girls, spent time with my family, hung out with a group of people from my job that I had never really gotten to know, etc. I had so much fun without him, it was like a burden had been lifted off my shoulders. After the week was over, I broke up with him. I''m so glad I did, because I met my husband, a man who is ambitious and goal-oriented and perfect for me. Last I heard, my ex was living with some girl he got pregnant. He''s still unemployed and lives off his mommy. Glad I got away!

Take some time for yourself. You may be surprised what you see and what will happen....
Good luck!

 

[Lorelei]

Take some time for yourself. You may be surprised what you see and what will happen....
Good luck!

Excellent advice Irisheyes

 

[IrishEyes]

Date: 8/15/2005 9:17:45 AM
Author: Lorelei

Take some time for yourself. You may be surprised what you see and what will happen....
Good luck!

Excellent advice Irisheyes

Thank you my dear!!!

 

[Lorelei]

You are so incredibly welcome!!

 

[FireGoddess]

I agree with the above advice, all of which was great! I think an honest talk and potentially a trial separation would be good steps. If it were me, a major thing I would bring up in the talk is that if I want to have KIDS, I am in NO WAY going to get pregnant without being financially stable!!! Grandma is NOT going to be footing the bills for that. That is, at least to me, one of the big issues that if he can''t see the light about that, then he''s never going to. Maybe he feels that you both are getting along *okay* with whatever money you do/don''t have right now, but when there''s a baby?!?! That''s just not going to cut it. I wish you all the best of luck...it''s a tough situation.

 

[Mara]

I agree that you know what the truth is inside...

I know a gal who has been with a guy for 7 years and he is the same way. He has changed alot though since they met. He''s lazy now and unmotivated, hasn''t worked really in 2 years, has ideas but no follow-through. He''s had alot of family issues, aka father died of cancer and this and that. And my friend is a caretaker...she admits she has been taking care of him the last few years but that he is not the man she thought he was or the man she fell in love with so many years ago.

Bottom line is she knows in her heart too. I told her that she has to give some thought to herself. It''s not just about one person in a relationship. You have to be selfish sometimes and if you know that this is a losing situation, regardless of how much you love the person, walk away.

I suggest giving it some time apart and really letting yourself see what it is like out there. He will probably want to be back with you regardless because you probably make him feel better about himself, but seriously after all these years is this really what you want 6 or 10 or 20 more years of?? When you look back do you want a strong partnership or to see you and his mother caretaking him for his entire life? I would be ashamed if I was living off my parents or my SO at 32 because I was an aimless dreamer. It''s awesome to have dreams but you have to find a way to live in the real world too yanno.

Good luck! But I think you know the answer in your heart. It''s time to move on and make your own way and give your own life the same consideration you gave him.

 

[Judi W]

He won''t change.......trust me. After 30 plus years of happy marriage, I can tell you that the things about my husband I didn''t like in the early days, pretty much remained the same.. The good far outweighed the bad and still does. I learned to live with his faults, as I''m sure he does with mine. None of us are perfect, but if there are BIG fundamental differences now, believe me they will still be there when the going "really gets tough". As several others on this thread have already said....it sounds like you''ve already made your decision". Good luck and follow your heart. Things happen for a reason!

 

[decodelighted]

I really empathize with your situation. My sister went through something similar three years ago with a guy she''d lived with for almost four years & fully expected to marry. Her main (perhaps only) reservation about him, from the beginning, was his lack of ambition. He was perfectly happy earning very, very little and letting her mostly support both of them. Our family loved him. He was a great, amazing, handsome, caring individual --- great to be around, helpful in day to day chores etc ... but just not a driven guy. Deep inside she knew she wanted something different from a partner. After a lot of soul searching, she asked him to move out. This was financially very hard for her at the time because then she had to pay for the whole apartment the rest of the lease by herself - she even, in the short term, ended up in some debt because of it. Interesting, she also learned something about herself. Often in live, what we dislike about others is what we actually dislike about ourselves. She realized she also felt like she wasn''t ambitious enough HERSELF. She applied and was accepted to grad school, getting further into debt ... but with the long term in mind. While working part time & attending school part time she had a blind date with her future husband. MBA, Owned his own home. As nice and kind and handsome and compatable with her as the other guy had been - but also ambitious, like she now was. He was impressed by her graduate studies ... & after six months they moved in together, with him paying most of their bills so she could finish school without getting further into debt. Fast forward: They''ve been married a year now, she''s doubled her own income, they bought/built their dream house & now she''s pregnant with their first child. She''s never been happier & it''s thrilling to see how her life has changed. I was there for her when she was in a tiny box of an apartment she could not afford, in a no-growth job, wondering IF she''d ever meet anyone as great as the EX & if she''d made a big mistake breaking off that relationship .... and I''m there now, amazed.

Shoot me, but I''m going to quote an Oprah episode -- "People always tell you who they really are. It''s up to us to believe them."

Best of luck whatever you decide is right for you! And I do mean YOU.

 

[Gypsy]

Thanks everyone for replying. We''ve been taking time apart... I''m about 2000 miles away, and he''s making an effort, he KNOWS I''ve got one foot out the door. And he''s actually got a good work ethic when he''s doing something... he just gives up easily and always has his eye on what''s in his mind instead of what''s in front of him at the time. I think I''m going to go the relationship couseling route first before I walk away.... this time apart has shown me that if I walk away now, I''ll always have regrets. If things don''t change after a few months of counseling, then I''m going to have to walk. Because NO, I can''t handle this for another year, let alone for the rest of my life. As someone said, I''m not going to rush into a desicion... but make sure the one I make is one I can live with for the rest of my life.

Thanks again.

 

[Gypsy]

decodelighted, that was a very, very helpful post.
"I was there for her when she was in a tiny box of an apartment she could not afford, in a no-growth job, wondering IF she''d ever meet anyone as great as the EX & if she''d made a big mistake breaking off that relationship .... and I''m there now, amazed."

That''s where I am. I''m so scared to leave. He''s great in so many ways... but not in the ways that are counting now. Argh. God, I''m afraid.

I don''t want kids (neither does he), so that''s a non-issue. But I so want stability. My own home. A decent credit rating. A vacation once a year that we don''t have to cancel because of finaces. A wedding that doesn''t have to be canceled twice because of finances. you get the picture.

 

[Mara]

I''ll say one more thing...

I used to be in a relationship with a great guy in so many ways, he adored me, treated me right, loved me, was stable, smart, ambitious, etc. But I didn''t LOVE him the way that I felt I should for a long-term relationship for marriage. I couldn''t see us in 50 years together.

I was with him for almost 4 years and 3 of those 4 was me trying to make it be the right relationship. But it just wasn''t. When I broke it off, I was scared that I wouldn''t find someone who treated me as well, fit so well with my personality etc.

But when I met my now-husband, I found things that my ex was missing...and my new beau was great in all the same ''basic'' ways...but he had so much more of what I felt I was missing but didn''t know I wanted. It just felt right and within a year or so I realized that I could see myself with him 50 years later and I wanted to experience life with him etc. I didn''t have to try to make the feelings happen or try to feel like he was the one. He just was.

So I totally understand re: letting one good thing go and daring to look for something ''better''. It''s hard but having felt what I thought it should feel like and then finding what it DOES feel like when it''s right, I can say that you will know it when you find it and you should not settle for less. The feelings I have with my now-husband are light-years from my old wanna-be relationship.

Good luck!

 

[decodelighted]

Hey Gypsy -- I''m glad her story resonates for you. I''m happy to share it because I, personally, find it so inspiring. Values definately shift as we get older & plan for the future more seriously. You deserve all of the things you want & I very much hope you get them one way or the other!

 

[phoenixgirl]

My husband has some of the same qualities you describe -- the restlessness, always wanting to be doing something new. And yet at the same time, he wants stability, a house, a family, and to be the primary earner so that I can be at home when the kids are young and live the kind of life we want.

We met in college (I was a freshman, he was a junior), and he immediately took the second semester of his junior year off after we started dating because he couldn''t focus on college anymore. So he worked, and was supposed to go back in the fall, and his parents were paying the tuition but classes had started and he wasn''t signed up for any and wasn''t telling them and he had to withdraw, and then he took another semester off, and so on and so forth, and he finally graduated two years late with me. His major was French, but he wanted to be handed a good-paying, life-long career job that had nothing to do with his major instantly, which didn''t happen, so he tried two jobs that had no upward mobility for a year each, got let go from each (never for being a bad employee, but still), and then we decided to get married with the understanding that he had to pursue a real career.

So he got it lined up to become his dad''s CSR (FIL is a financial advisor -- sounds like your guy was pursuing a similar field), which he was really lucky to do since he had a degree in French and bad college GPA and I always secretly harbored a fear that he hadn''t actually graduated (although he did walk at graduation on the understanding that he would somehow get a few credits he was lacking by getting a professor to approve some work he did or something), and just when he was about to start working there, he thought, oh, maybe he would open a bookstore/coffee shop instead. And I was like, honey, not to burst your bubble, but we need a stable income, and you don''t have any money to do that, and you have a good job lined up, so no way. Up until a year ago he bounced a million ideas around -- real estate developer, store owner, restaurant owner, history professor, etc.

He''s been with his dad about a year, and has passed his series 7 and 66 and something else, and has just been offered a position there as an FA (long story why he hasn''t accepted yet -- his dad might be changing firms due to theirs being bought, though DH will go too and be an FA wherever they end up). So, if all goes as planned, he becomes an FA, maybe struggles a bit at first trying to get his own clients, but eventually takes over his dad''s book and we can make a good living and achieve all our financial goals.

I even paid off his cc debt (about $3500) and put him on my ccs when we got engaged, hoping that his credit score would improve so we could get a mortgage, but we didn''t wait long enough so it''s in my name. Paying them off turned out to be a good thing because the firm checked his credit score before offering him the FA position, saying that they wouldn''t hire somebody to handle other people''s money who couldn''t handle his own, and it''s all off it by now. (Apparently it isn''t unusual for people with access to credit reports to check out their financial advisor''s).

I know I''ve painted a bleak picture, but my husband is a wonderful man. He''s smart (actually a card carrying Mensa member) and the kindest person I know. I know he will succeed as an FA because he is a "people person." He can get along with anyone, so whenever we have a problem with something he can always get the person to help (I just get mad and snippy). He envisions all the same things in his future that I do. He has so many interests because he actually is good at mostly everything he tries. And he is the most loving person. He admires and accepts me totally, and I have as many faults as he, just different ones.

Part of the difficulty in his settling down was personality . . . before he met me, he was always dating somebody new (although sometimes he wouldn''t even realize the girl thought they were dating!), etc. He gets restless doing the same thing for an extended period of time. And part of it was that his parents (who married at 20) had just gotten divorced, and his dad was letting on for the first time how much he didn''t get to do by marrying an unstable person (but that''s another story) young, which made my husband want to do all the things his dad didn''t get to do. And part of it was probably a fear of feeling trapped. I had to reassure him a lot in the beginning that it was ok for him not to like his job and try something else. It was just important for him to know that, if he really couldn''t stand it, he could quit. And of course he could. It''s just that there is a difference between feeling restless because that is your personality and being stuck in a job you hate. If it''s the former, he''ll just have to suck it up, but if it''s really the latter, then I would do everything I could to help him find something better. I got stuck teaching at a nightmare middle school my first year of teaching, so I know that sometimes your mental health and dignity are more important than your job (as long as you can still make ends meet -- there''s nothing noble about being bankrupt or homeless).

I guess the question is whether or not your fiance just needs to grow up or is perpetually irresponsible. DH is only 26, so I think taking until you are 25 to get your act together is ok. We complement each other, so I can help him when he has a whim that he wants to run off and fulfill. But the truth is, we''re married for better or for worse now, so if he gets fired or quits or something and has a pipe dream, I''ll have to figure it out with him. I don''t see that happening any time soon after how hard he has worked to pass his tests and get hired and because of not wanting to crap out on his dad, but I can''t predict the future, and I know he has this personality trait, so I am sure it will manifest itself at one point or another.

I tell you this to give you the other side of the coin -- somebody who stuck it out and at least for now seems to be out of the woods. But if your fiance is 32 and still taking money from his mother and not making a plan for a stable career, he may not be able (or at least not willing) to change. The separation is a good idea. If there is any chance for him to change, I would think that losing you would be the cause. If he can''t settle down even when he knows he is losing the woman he loves because of it, then it really is hopeless. You already know that you can''t make him change.

Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[MissAva]

You have another thread up right now..one about feeling unhappy wiht your e-ring stone. Do you think these two things might be related. Perhaps the reason youare not happy with the ring you have now is becuase in your heart you are not ready to commit to this man for life.

 

[Kamuelamom]

Date: 8/15/2005 2:46:00 PM
Author: Mara
I''ll say one more thing...

I used to be in a relationship with a great guy in so many ways, he adored me, treated me right, loved me, was stable, smart, ambitious, etc. But I didn''t LOVE him the way that I felt I should for a long-term relationship for marriage. I couldn''t see us in 50 years together.

I was with him for almost 4 years and 3 of those 4 was me trying to make it be the right relationship. But it just wasn''t. When I broke it off, I was scared that I wouldn''t find someone who treated me as well, fit so well with my personality etc.

But when I met my now-husband, I found things that my ex was missing...and my new beau was great in all the same ''basic'' ways...but he had so much more of what I felt I was missing but didn''t know I wanted. It just felt right and within a year or so I realized that I could see myself with him 50 years later and I wanted to experience life with him etc. I didn''t have to try to make the feelings happen or try to feel like he was the one. He just was.

So I totally understand re: letting one good thing go and daring to look for something ''better''. It''s hard but having felt what I thought it should feel like and then finding what it DOES feel like when it''s right, I can say that you will know it when you find it and you should not settle for less. The feelings I have with my now-husband are light-years from my old wanna-be relationship.

Good luck!

Mara, how can you go wrong with a guy who accepts that you have a floating testicle inside of you?

Gpysy, I feel your pain. You need to decide the long term for yourself, I think you clearly see the writing on the wall...maybe. Who knows if he''ll mature eventually, but face it, some guys are just complacent with themselves a certain way and refuse to grow up. I agree that some space for yourself may help you see your way clearly through, and perhaps out of this. Doesn''t mean he''s a bad guy, or that he doesn''t care for you, but maybe he''s just not the right *for you.* Have you clearly communicated your goals to him?

 

[Mara]

"Mara, how can you go wrong with a guy who accepts that you have a floating testicle inside of you?"

______________

Oh my gosh KM I almost died laughing reading that one. Very true, very true. But it''s just speculation at this point.

Also very true re: the guy could be a great person, catch whatever, but maybe just not right for you. That is definitely what was happening in my old relationship. 2 years after we broke up he got married and moved to Oregon to be with this gal he met through friends; and a year after that, the same year I was getting married, they had a baby!

 

[blueroses]

''Mara, how can you go wrong with a guy who accepts that you have a floating testicle inside of you?''

oh my god, ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kamuelamom]

Date: 8/15/2005 4:41:31 PM
Author: Mara
Oh my gosh KM I almost died laughing reading that one. Very true, very true. But it''s just speculation at this point.

Spec, shmeck, you *know* it''s gotta be there.

 

[lisaC]

Courage Gypsy! Fear of being alone can''t be the reason you stay. Counselling is a good idea even if it''s just to galvanize your feelings as to what you want. You have already decided what your deal breaker is and you have to not beat yourself up whichever decision you make. You can''t live for what ifs.
best wishes, lisaC.

 

[Mara]

Date: 8/15/2005 6:40:53 PM
Author: Kamuelamom

Date: 8/15/2005 4:41:31 PM
Author: Mara
Oh my gosh KM I almost died laughing reading that one. Very true, very true. But it''s just speculation at this point.

Spec, shmeck, you *know* it''s gotta be there.

Neither Greg nor I would be surprised.

 

[movie zombie]

read something some time back:

a man marries a woman hoping she never will change and a woman marries a man hoping he will.

lisaC and IrishEyes pretty much have said what i would if they hadn''t said it already. and the comment re dissatisfaction with the e-ring certainly could have relevance.....

oh, and its better to make a break now than have a divorce later.....

peace, movie zombie

 

[JROC]

I agree with everyone here. Coming from a guys perspective here. I would sit him down and tell him how you feel. Tell him that you need to take some time apart to re-evalute the situation. Communication is key to a relationship! Maybe this will light a fire under his a$$ and give him a much needed reality check , if it doesn''t then I would say that you should think about moving on but that is a tough decision only you can make.

Truthfully, you know deep down inside what you need to do, it is getting the courage up to do it. It is hard starting over especially with so much time invested with someone you love.

To be honest, if you can''t deal with this now then it is going to be MUCH harder when your married and will put a huge strain on the marriage that could and probably would end up in divorce sorry to say.

Good Luck.

 

[kittykat]

I agree with everyone else, but I can really relate to your story becuase I was in a similar situation with my FI. We have been together for sven years now and have been through a lot regarding this issue. We met when I was just finishing college and at the time he was a pretty big rave DJ. Well once he finished school, the rave scene started dying as did the poularity of his genre of music. It was really impossiblle for him to accept this as he had been making a good living this way since he was 17 and it was a huge part of his identity. In the mean time, my career was taking off and I was having trouble accepting the fact that I was making most of the money in the relationship. I had to pack all of my things and load them into the car (we were living together) before he accepted the fact that he had to move on from relying on this as his source of income put his collge degree to use. He had to start all over again. First he bcame a limo driver, then a teacher then he finally realized he wanted to go back to school to earn his PHD in psychology and have a private practice. This is where we are now, and he''s really excited about this, gets straight A''s and is really quite good at what he is pursuing. The point of my story is that when I was ready to move out and move on, I kept thinking that he was selfish and didn''t want to work, but the problem was actually that he was having a really hard time having to reavaluate his whole life and all his plans. It was a difficult thing for him to face. I''m very proud of him for doing this. I still face fears that he won''t be able to put in more financially and our finances will stay the same, but his goals are to at leats equal and exceed my salary so I can stay home with kids (as are miy hopes) and I trust he will accomplish them. I could marry an investment banker or a millionaire for that matter, but it doesn''t mean that in 5 or 10 years we coudn''t lose everything. I came to the conclusion that in my case love was enough, but it is an evaluation you can only make for yourself. Good luck. I hope everything works out for you!