Changing eyesight and diamond preferences

[LLJsmom]

As @John Pollard mentioned:

Avatar345 said:
... how much is that price premium to super ideal worth? And can it be detected visually?

These are both valid questions. The answer to this one depends on the person. Many times I've stood across from couples where one observer detects tint, inclusion or performance differences immediately that their partner doesn't.

Another page that may be useful: Diamond beauty and eyesight.
https://www.pricescope.com/education/diamond-cut/diamond-beauty-and-eyesight

This topic is of interest to me because my eyesight has changed significantly in the past 4 years, I am wanting more color in my clothes and jewelry and in my work as well. I highlight lines, cells, documents in color in order to find things easily and quickly. My preferences for color and diamond performance have changed as well. I changed to a K OEC in 2016. After wearing my OEC through 2020, I discovered I really wanted a brighter, whiter stone, that would really just catch my eyes. And I also noticed that a couple years ago, I realized that visual brightness catches my eye so much more than it did before.

So am very curious whether others have noticed any change in their vision and their diamond preferences over time.

And honestly because I am planner, if I had known this would happen, would that have affected my original diamond choices? I wonder.

 

[lulu_ma]

Interestingly, I have gone in a reverse direction. I used to be fixated on primarily colorless diamonds. But old cuts have opened my eyes to a little bit of tint. Now I feel like my general color range has expanded. For instance, for my next major anniversary, I want to do a ACA 5 stone in H/I color.

I do wonder if I perceive color differently because I am right-brain dominant (I'm the only one in my family to see the pink and white shoe).

 

[missy]

Love this thread. My taste has definitely changed but not related to my vision like you @LLJsmom.

I used to wear monochromatic muted colors. Black, grey, white and sometimes brown. All solid colors. But (20 years ago or maybe even earlier than that) I started loving bright prints. I still love black, white, grey and solid colors but now I mix it up with bright prints and bright solid colors too.
My taste however is still similar to the young me in that I have always loved all things retro.

My vision though has definitely changed and I cannot see anything up close with my glasses on (but easy peasy to take them off and then I see very well up close). This hasn't changed anything for me with my jewelry preferences though because with my glasses off and I can spot inclusions so easily. And I have always been clarity sensitive. VS or better. So no changes there.

Once I got to know what my jewelry preferences were/are I have been rock (haha) steady. However, it was a journey to realize my preferences (MRB to OEC to OEC) but once I did I have been steady in what I love and what I do not love.

The journey was expensive but worth it and I wouldn't change a thing because it brought me my beautiful baubles and I appreciate them even more because it was not a straightforward path if that makes sense. I feel as if I earned them so to speak.

 

[stracci2000]

I can't see anything without reader glasses or a loupe.
Sometimes I need both.
Inspecting bling is getting harder and harder as I age.

 

[123ducklings]

I’ve been thinking about this recently — I suffered some sudden and permanent vision loss this year. Even though it was relatively minor, it’s still been a noticeable change that I’m adjusting to. I recently got my first CVB piece, and while I know the finishing and details are spectacular from the macro photos, try as I might I cannot actually see those details I’ve had most of my jewelry for a while so I “know” it and it looks just a great to me now, but I am thinking more about purchases going forward. Does it still make sense for me to pay a premium for finer details (like clarity for example, which I was very perceptive and fussy about in the past)? Is this where the idea of “mind clean” comes more into play? I’m interested to read other people’s experiences.

 

[AdaBeta27]

I had caratact surgery almost 2 years ago. I went for maximum distance vision and I need glasses to read. I never was a stickler for 100% eye-clean so my preferences are unchanged there. But what shocked me was how much more readily I can distinguish between the different grades of tint in diamonds and moissanites now. I could always see tint before, and the I range always had looked ivory to me. But there's a dramatic difference between a D and an F, and between an F and a J now. Moissanite that had looked J/K white to me before is distinctly quite yellow or slightly greenish to me in any lighting now. I enjoy warm diamonds as much as colorless, But I can see where someone who only likes colorless diamonds might be mortified to see how much tint their stone has, and might be suddenly wanting to trade it in on a higher color.

 

[sledge]

Does it still make sense for me to pay a premium for finer details (like clarity for example, which I was very perceptive and fussy about in the past)? Is this where the idea of “mind clean” comes more into play? I’m interested to read other people’s experiences.

Sorry to hear this. Our vision is something we can take for granted until it’s taken or impaired. Is there a possibility that lasik, contacts or glasses would help restore to more similar levels as before the incident?

If I were faced with this dilemma I would probably reign back my clarity requirements to “market average” meaning a good eye clean SI1 with no haze, cloudy or milky effects. Maybe VS2 to be a little safer. I say this because I see the joy my wife and her friends get from looking and comparing their diamonds.

Even if she couldn’t see the finer details any longer, I would always want her to “have a seat at the table”. Meaning just because she couldn’t see things doesn’t mean her friends couldn’t and I wouldn’t want her to be robbed of that joy.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

I’ve been thinking about this recently — I suffered some sudden and permanent vision loss this year. Even though it was relatively minor, it’s still been a noticeable change that I’m adjusting to. I recently got my first CVB piece, and while I know the finishing and details are spectacular from the macro photos, try as I might I cannot actually see those details I’ve had most of my jewelry for a while so I “know” it and it looks just a great to me now, but I am thinking more about purchases going forward. Does it still make sense for me to pay a premium for finer details (like clarity for example, which I was very perceptive and fussy about in the past)? Is this where the idea of “mind clean” comes more into play? I’m interested to read other people’s experiences.

I experienced mild permanent vision loss in one eye about 5 years ago. While I know I am fortunate, and thankful it wasn't worse, it was a terrifying experience. Your brain will adjust to the change in about a year. You will still see the difference, but it should become less noticeable. I wish you the best.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

As someone who studies both how the human eye takes in data and how our brains perceive that data to create what we "see," I could write at length on this subject! This morning I only a few minutes to respond, so I’ll just address one way our perception changes.

Many people gradually develop cataracts as they age, starting around age 40. Cataracts cloud the lenses of our eyes and not only cause blurred vision, but in relation to what LLJsmom is talking about -- a gradual dimming affect and a muting of our color perception. Usually this is gradual enough it isn't noticed until it is fairly bad. Imaging an old-fashioned dimmer switch that is being very slowly turned down in a room. People with cataracts often find they need brighter light to read than they used to, and can't drive at night as easily, etc. And often the cataract haze is yellowy-brown, so it mutes our perception of the intensity of color.

If you are familiar with the artist Monet, and you look at the progression of his landscape painting of the same spots over the course of many years, you will see the paintings becoming more and more orangy-brown and darker as his cataracts worsened. In 1922 he had cataract surgery (I shudder to think what that involve pre-laser!) and almost immediately returned to his younger, brighter palette. (See images below.)

Like what Monet went through, and what @AdaBeta27 describes, after people have cataract surgery, they often can't believe how bright and colorful the world seems. My mom recently had hers done and said it was like having 50 years of yellowy greasy gunk cleaned off the kitchen windows – she can see the sky is a lovely shade of blue again. She was horrified by how garish her bright pink bathrobe looked (which she thought was a dignified dusty hue.)

A Monet painting of his garden at Giverny in 1922 when his cataracts where at their worst:



A Monet painting of his garden from 1923, post surgery:

 

[nala]

I’ve been near-sighted my whole life with no change even at 47. Well last year I started to become bothered by tint and inclusions on my previous diamond. It just happened. After owning the stone over a year. Like. All of a sudden, it seemed. I can’t blame my eyesight so I think it is the fact that I am a pser who is constantly taking pics of my ring. Lol. In various lighting environments. So I upgraded to an E and eyeclean SI1. With my E, I am visually reminded daily of tints—as I own several rhr’s which I previously considered colorless, lol—turns out they are tinted and my eye can spot the tint now without hesitation. I know I have come full circle tho bc before ps, I prioritized color. But after so many years of reading that cut masks color and it’s ok to go lower than colorless , I tried that route with a Gia I and it turns out that despite my near ideal cut, that stone looked tinted.

 

[John Pollard]

@LLJsmom thank you for sharing that new page. I'm glad to see this conversation occurring.

@nala , scroll down to item #3 in this section of the page (length of exposure). Obsession, err, time on task can contribute as much to heightened perception as your shutterbug tendencies.

As someone who studies both how the human eye takes in data and how our brains perceive that data to create what we "see," I could write at length on this subject!

I'd love to hear more. My first career was in music. Throughout my gemological journey I've found it fascinating to correlate visual nature vs nurture with musical nature vs nurture.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

@LLJsmom thank you for sharing that new page. I'm glad to see this conversation occurring.

@nala , scroll down to item #3 in this section of the page (length of exposure). Obsession, err, time on task can contribute as much to heightened perception as your shutterbug tendencies.


I'd love to hear more. My first career was in music. Throughout my gemological journey I've found it fascinating to correlate visual nature vs nurture with musical nature vs nurture.

Oh yes John, this would be a fun conversation over a bottle of wine -- next time you down here in my neck of the woods!

Both nature and nurture definitely affect how we "see." (When I use the term "see" I am referring to how we perceive the data our eyes take in, not the raw data itself coming in.)

On the "nature" side, there are two parts, our genes (which determines things like the rods & cones, which in turn determines how our eyes take in variations in color and light) and also how our eyes and brain change and deteriorate over time. [If you really want your mind blown -- Google "tetrachromats," the science behind folks who are super-seers of color, or synesthesia, another rare condition, when sound or taste has "color."]

On the nurture side, there is learning to see (or be aware) of the variations. I assume this would be similar to teaching people how to hear and match pitch in music. I remember as a child having a music teacher instruct me to try to match my voice to the pitch of the vacuum cleaner. (I think I remember the low setting being an A while the high was an A#.) Well, as a painter, when I see a color in an object such as a blue agate necklace, I think, "that's cerulean blue (not ultramarine) mixed with a hint of cadmium orange deep, with a tiny bit of transparent red iron oxide." This learning to see and match nuances in color can be taught to most people, not to everyone, but to most -- just like learning to hit the pitch of the vacuum cleaner. I've had numerous students who couldn't see color very well when they came to me, but after a number of exercises, and practice, were able to mix colors to almost perfectly match anything object they see. In my field, we call that "hitting a color note."

Also on the nurture side, there is the psychology of perception. This incorporates things like we see what we want to see, we see what reinforces our previous world view, we see according to the norms of our tribe, etc.

This is just the tip of the eye/brain "seeing" iceberg!

 

[elle_chris]

As @John Pollard mentioned:



These are both valid questions. The answer to this one depends on the person. Many times I've stood across from couples where one observer detects tint, inclusion or performance differences immediately that their partner doesn't.

Another page that may be useful: Diamond beauty and eyesight.
https://www.pricescope.com/education/diamond-cut/diamond-beauty-and-eyesight

This topic is of interest to me because my eyesight has changed significantly in the past 4 years, I am wanting more color in my clothes and jewelry and in my work as well. I highlight lines, cells, documents in color in order to find things easily and quickly. My preferences for color and diamond performance have changed as well. I changed to a K OEC in 2016. After wearing my OEC through 2020, I discovered I really wanted a brighter, whiter stone, that would really just catch my eyes. And I also noticed that a couple years ago, I realized that visual brightness catches my eye so much more than it did before.

So am very curious whether others have noticed any change in their vision and their diamond preferences over time.

And honestly because I am planner, if I had known this would happen, would that have affected my original diamond choices? I wonder.

The timing of this post is perfect.

I recently saw a gorgeous and rather LARGE diamond set in Rose gold with two small marquis diamonds in the shape of petals as side stones.
The jeweler said it was a 3.55 ct J, VS1 (EGL).

It started making me wonder just how color sensitive I really was these days. I mean it was obvious the stone wasn't colorless, but it didn't look very tinted to me either. Also, the fact that the entire ring was gorgeous made me even less aware of the color.
So this in turn lead me to email WF to see if I still qualified for a trade-up.

I currently have a GIA graded G, but now the question is would I go down to a J?
Previously an upgrade for me would have meant a 2ct D or E stone. So I was willing to sacrifice size for a better color. Now I'm thinking that I'm willing to sacrifice color for size.

Age definitely has everything to do with how I see color these days. And diamond color just just isn't as big deal to me as it was in my late 20's/30's.
Size on the other hand I see quite well..

 

[123ducklings]

Sorry to hear this. Our vision is something we can take for granted until it’s taken or impaired. Is there a possibility that lasik, contacts or glasses would help restore to more similar levels as before the incident?

If I were faced with this dilemma I would probably reign back my clarity requirements to “market average” meaning a good eye clean SI1 with no haze, cloudy or milky effects. Maybe VS2 to be a little safer. I say this because I see the joy my wife and her friends get from looking and comparing their diamonds.

Even if she couldn’t see the finer details any longer, I would always want her to “have a seat at the table”. Meaning just because she couldn’t see things doesn’t mean her friends couldn’t and I wouldn’t want her to be robbed of that joy.

Thank you so much for your kind comment and prudent advice! I think once things open up more in my area it will be fun to go shopping with “fresh eyes” and reacclimate myself.

 

[123ducklings]

I experienced mild permanent vision loss in one eye about 5 years ago. While I know I am fortunate, and thankful it wasn't worse, it was a terrifying experience. Your brain will adjust to the change in about a year. You will still see the difference, but it should become less noticeable. I wish you the best.

Thank you so much for this! Yes, I’m feeling the same way — fortunate and grateful it wasn’t worse, but it’s also an adjustment. I appreciate your perspective, and I’m glad you are doing well!

 

[caolsen]

Love this thread! I have super human up close vision (something like 20/5) but lord, my distance vision is sub optional So for me bling choices are about if I want to see the piece’s details or I want people to see the details.

I ageee, that even with really, really good up close vision, I can’t see the difference between super ideals and triple excellents. I think that’s a mental thing for buyers, versus an optional one - and good for them.

The point about Monet’s vision is fascinating. When my late grandmother bought her last couch, pre cataract surgery, she would not believe us that the fabric tones were purple. To her it was brown hues but post surgery, amazing - it was purple to her.

 

[AdaBeta27]

A Monet painting of his garden from 1923, post surgery:

The most amazing difference for me has been not colors, but how clearly I can see the myriad of stars in the sky at night now. I really hadn't noticed, but I suspect I hadn't seen stars that clearly since I was 21, lol.
I never did have as much color distortion as most people experience. I had some yellowing, yes. But now the colors I see are "whiter" or bluer like the "cool" setting on an LED TV vs. with the cataracts my vision was in the "warm" or "movie" options offered on the TV, if that makes sense. I didn't have any night vision loss or difficulties. What drove me to the early cataract surgery was the hardening of my lenses and the galloping nearsightedness. I threw in the towel when the eyeglasses I just bought 30 days earlier became suddenly inadequate because my prescription changed from a -6 to a -8 and was still deteriorating. I was wearing 2 pairs of old glasses with one over top of the other just to get enough visual acuity to be legal to drive, at one point. Then I switched to contact lenses (cheaper than glasses) to get through the last 30 days before surgery and I was wearing a -12 in one eye and -14 in the other. Nobody else in my family has had similar problems. I blame my outdoory lifestyle and hobbies, and the cheap sunglasses of my youth.

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

My eye sight has declined over the years and I need to wear glasses to use the computer for eye strain. Having said that, the combination of having very sensitive senses and perfectionism results in my preference for colorless, high clarity stones. I can often see inclusions in VS stones when others can't. I can even see stuff in my VVS1 stone, but I think it's just dirty and I can never get it perfectly clean. I can also easily detect tint.

Interestingly, the same goes with my taste buds, smells, and hearing. I can taste differences in water based on how long it's been since it was poured. And I can smell things that my DH and others normally can't. Example is I smelled a rot in the pantry that my DH couldn't detect...weeks later he noticed and found it. I also detected a small natural gas leak when DH and the gas person couldn't smell it, but ultimately found it after a lot of extensive searching with a tool.

I definitely have noticed though diamonds have begun to look smaller and smaller to me, but I think that is psychological not visual!

 

[musicloveranthony]

I'm realizing, lately, that I'm going to need bifocals. I used to be able to hold things up to my face to inspect them. Lately, I'm realizing I need to hold things at arms length to inspect them!!

 

[John Pollard]

Oh yes John, this would be a fun conversation over a bottle of wine -- next time you down here in my neck of the woods!

I'm master of ceremonies for a musical event that's close to you in September. If I pass that way any earlier I'll give a shout.

Both nature and nurture definitely affect how we "see." (When I use the term "see" I am referring to how we perceive the data our eyes take in, not the raw data itself coming in.)

On the "nature" side, there are two parts, our genes (which determines things like the rods & cones, which in turn determines how our eyes take in variations in color and light) and also how our eyes and brain change and deteriorate over time. [If you really want your mind blown -- Google "tetrachromats," the science behind folks who are super-seers of color, or synesthesia, another rare condition, when sound or taste has "color."]

On the nurture side, there is learning to see (or be aware) of the variations. I assume this would be similar to teaching people how to hear and match pitch in music. I remember as a child having a music teacher instruct me to try to match my voice to the pitch of the vacuum cleaner. (I think I remember the low setting being an A while the high was an A#.) Well, as a painter, when I see a color in an object such as a blue agate necklace, I think, "that's cerulean blue (not ultramarine) mixed with a hint of cadmium orange deep, with a tiny bit of transparent red iron oxide." This learning to see and match nuances in color can be taught to most people, not to everyone, but to most -- just like learning to hit the pitch of the vacuum cleaner. I've had numerous students who couldn't see color very well when they came to me, but after a number of exercises, and practice, were able to mix colors to almost perfectly match anything object they see. In my field, we call that "hitting a color note."

Also on the nurture side, there is the psychology of perception. This incorporates things like we see what we want to see, we see what reinforces our previous world view, we see according to the norms of our tribe, etc.

This is just the tip of the eye/brain "seeing" iceberg!

First of all, your use of "cerulean" in this thread was perfect - shout out to one of my wife's fav movies of all time (if you know, you know).

My mother was an operatic mezzo who taught voice lessons in our home during the day. Instead of a vacuum (great idea) she had students match pitch with her voice. Once they matched with sufficient resonance (it took longer for some than others) she'd ascend or descend in half-tones and have them adjust and match again. It was cool to hear her students evolve in both listening and singing aptitude. My childhood was an ongoing lesson in melodic call, response and development that served me extremely well when I broke mom's heart and became a percussionist. Rhythm and melody are opposite sides of the same coin. At university I discovered that I had far more range and tools as a rhythmic composer and performer thanks to a full childhood of melodic voice lessons.

I experienced a renaissance of learning when I entered the diamond business. Like vocal training, I got incredible training on how to see diamonds. I started with a small nature advantage (shout out to nearsightedness and OCD) but was nurtured by a maestro, asked great questions, given great tests and challenged to perceive nuance (like painted upper halves...if you know, you know ).

Your description of "hitting a color note" really resonated because I was exposed to such opportunities across several "Cs" in my gemstone apprenticeship.

 

[Tourmaline]

My preferences have definitely changed as I (and my eyes) have gotten older. When I was young, I had eagle eyes and could see inclusions, if they existed, without magnification. I didn’t even consider any diamonds under VS1, and even those had to have certain kinds of inclusions so I wouldn’t have to look at them. In my twenties, I preferred whiter diamonds because they were considered better by pricing standards. As I’ve gotten older, not only has my eyesight gotten worse so I don’t have to have VVS diamonds by default, but I have learned that I hugely prefer warmer diamonds visually. This has allowed me to go up in cut and size when choosing a diamond.

As for color in general, I preferred earth tones for most of my life, and I still do, but I also love vibrant aqua and turquoise clothing. I’m still not into patterns. Solid colors for me.

 

[bright&shiny]

The most amazing difference for me has been not colors, but how clearly I can see the myriad of stars in the sky at night now. I really hadn't noticed, but I suspect I hadn't seen stars that clearly since I was 21, lol.
I never did have as much color distortion as most people experience. I had some yellowing, yes. But now the colors I see are "whiter" or bluer like the "cool" setting on an LED TV vs. with the cataracts my vision was in the "warm" or "movie" options offered on the TV, if that makes sense. I didn't have any night vision loss or difficulties. What drove me to the early cataract surgery was the hardening of my lenses and the galloping nearsightedness. I threw in the towel when the eyeglasses I just bought 30 days earlier became suddenly inadequate because my prescription changed from a -6 to a -8 and was still deteriorating. I was wearing 2 pairs of old glasses with one over top of the other just to get enough visual acuity to be legal to drive, at one point. Then I switched to contact lenses (cheaper than glasses) to get through the last 30 days before surgery and I was wearing a -12 in one eye and -14 in the other. Nobody else in my family has had similar problems. I blame my outdoory lifestyle and hobbies, and the cheap sunglasses of my youth.

Aren’t the stars amazing? I can relate to the nearsightedness. My left eye never fully developed its neurological pathway (amblyopia) and I’m super nearsighted to boot (equivalents of -12). So I can see everything like a microscope when my contacts are out. Cataracts haven’t developed yet, so my color is unaffected so far. What an amazing time we live in that allows so many procedures and the technology to make them less invasive. I can’t imagine Monet’s procedure. :-0

 

[RunningwithScissors]

I'm master of ceremonies for a musical event that's close to you in September. If I pass that way any earlier I'll give a shout.


First of all, your use of "cerulean" in this thread was perfect - shout out to one of my wife's fav movies of all time (if you know, you know).

My mother was an operatic mezzo who taught voice lessons in our home during the day. Instead of a vacuum (great idea) she had students match pitch with her voice. Once they matched with sufficient resonance (it took longer for some than others) she'd ascend or descend in half-tones and have them adjust and match again. It was cool to hear her students evolve in both listening and singing aptitude. My childhood was an ongoing lesson in melodic call, response and development that served me extremely well when I broke mom's heart and became a percussionist. Rhythm and melody are opposite sides of the same coin. At university I discovered that I had far more range and tools as a rhythmic composer and performer thanks to a full childhood of melodic voice lessons.

I experienced a renaissance of learning when I entered the diamond business. Like vocal training, I got incredible training on how to see diamonds. I started with a small nature advantage (shout out to nearsightedness and OCD) but was nurtured by a maestro, asked great questions, given great tests and challenged to perceive nuance (like painted upper halves...if you know, you know ).

Your description of "hitting a color note" really resonated because I was exposed to such opportunities across several "Cs" in my gemstone apprenticeship.

Fascinating about your musical upbringing! What a cool household to grow up in.

Yes, if you have time when you are down here in September, hit us up! J & I would love to gather and talk diamonds (or music or color or wine LOL etc.)

 

[Efleon]

I think this thread is the greatest ever and deserves a medal!
Honestly, made me a little weepy.
I thought I was the only one who struggles with eyesight. I’ve had coke-bottle glasses since kindergarten and that’s just the tip of my eyesight iceberg.
i still remember putting on my first pair of glasses and shouting out “mom, the carpet has little hairs!” because I hadn’t been able to see the pile.
Anyway, now at 53, this discussion helps me understand why it was suddenly so necessary that I upgrade my e-ring for color only. The H just suddenly bothered me so very much. 18 years not so much but suddenly it had to be changed right now.
My new F is a gorgeous relief and I’m so happy.
I’m going to be extra mindful of changes to how I perceive things going forward.
Thank you OP!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My vision has no influence on my diamond or any other purchases. For the record, I never wore glasses until I needed readers. In the last couple of years I felt my distance vision was not as good as it was, so I did get glasses for when I am driving longer distances or viewing a speaker or play at a distance. Quality, to me, is important regardless of my vision. I unfortunately do not have unlimited money, so I do have to balance my specs! I generally prefer VS1 clarity, which I consider extremely clean. As far as color goes, if I had unlimited money I'd probably have some E-F color stones, but I don't care to pay the premium for D since I think E and F are very white. So my diamonds are mostly in the near colorless range except for J. If I were to get an ideal cut round for a ring, I would want at least G, because I can see color more in modern cuts than my large faceted stone. But all of these thoughts are the same as they have been for years. My diamond rings would be a blur without my readers on, but that definitely would not cause me to choose lower quality!