Civil or symbolic ceremony for DW

[FutureMrs.McKerrall]

Hi all, new bride-to-be here.

Have any of you ladies considered doing a civil ceremony where you live to save on the hassle of translating all of your documents and then having a symbolic or non-denominational ceremony at your destination wedding location, BUT....not telling anyone? So basically you and your groom-to-be get a JP, go to city hall, or whatever, get married and then "pretend" to get married in front of all of your guests.

If you did this, did your guests clue in?

If you were a guest to a DW, would you be upset if you found out that the bride and groom got married before hand? Would you feel like you wasted all that $?

All opinions are welcome and appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[zipzapgirl]

We got married in Italy in May, but we did a little JOP marriage in February. We knew we were going to skip the translations, wedding office, and legal hurdles anyway and the spontaneous idea was a lot of fun! It was very low-key with a couple of friends there to be witnesses and toast with us afterwards. It was a little bit like eloping!

We had our wedding in Italy in May and it was purely symbolic. As in, an uncle was the "minister" and there was no legal meaning to the ceremony. Our parents and a few people knew that we had gotten married in February, but we didn''t really publicize it. If people asked if we were legally getting married in Italy, we just said that we were "doing all of the paperwork in the States before we leave" and most people didn''t delve too deep. It wasn''t a secret, but we didn''t want it to steal our thunder.

Everyone who knew about the few months in between was very supportive. A lot of our family and friends are from Europe, where this government office practice means a lot of the wedding ceremonies you attend aren''t the legally binding ones anyway. In my opinion, it''s really more about the fact that you are pledging your love and commitment to that person publically.

 

[FutureMrs.McKerrall]

Thanks for your reply.

The thing is that we would tell our 2 best friends so that they can be witnesses and that''s it! I am told that the guests don''t know the difference between an actual civil ceremony and the symbolic one, which is basically like renewing your vows.

We originally wanted to elope, but my sisters and mother made it pretty clear that they would be upset. So, we planned an actual wedding and booked the hall and all that. We decided to scrap that b/c that is not what we wanted and booked the DW. The thing that will eat at me is b/c my family told me they would be upset if I eloped, and this is basically like eloping. Personally I believe a wedding is about you and your significant other. If it is important to the two of you to throw a big wedding with everyone you know, good on ya! We believe that we are saying our vows to each other and thats it, hence the want to elope. I guess the bottom line of all this rambling (sorry

), is if the guests could tell if we were renewing our vows or if it would sound like any other JP or priest marrying a couple.

Am I ovethinking this, lol?

 

[katamari]

We did ultimately decide that it would be disrespectful to our guests (which for us are only our immediate families) and it just felt wrong to us to get legally married ahead of time. We are, instead, stopping by the court house the day we get back to be legally married. Plus, we really wanted our DW to feel like our wedding and our JoP stop to feel like a formality. Everyone would define this differently, but I know that I personally would feel "married" already if we went to the JoP first, and I didn''t want that taking anything away from our wedding.

I personally think I would be upset if the bride and groom kept it from me, and it would factor in my decision to go or not, but I can think of several reasons why I would not see it as a waste and several reasons why I would.

 

[mrscushion]

I attended a Caribbean DW where the bride and groom got legally married in the States beforehand and didn''t tell most people, though they told me. I didn''t mind. Their beach wedding was the real wedding, so that''s what mattered.

Now I am planning a DW and FI and haven''t decided yet what we want to do. We definitely want the "main wedding" ceremony a symbolic ceremony, the question is just do we legally tie the knot at home beforehand or afterwards. Keep me posted on what you plan to do! It is true that in Europe (where I am from and having my DW) the ceremony that is attended by most guests is not the legal ceremony but rather the religious/symbolic one, which is after the much smaller, legal procedure.

 

[LadyBlue]

I have the ceremony one day and the blessing in a different day. I did not tell people that I actually sign in a different way, because for me what matters is the blessing. That''s my wedding day, and the day I''m going to celebrate my first anniversary

 

[CDNinNYC]

We had our legal ceremony prior to leaving for our DW. We didn''t announce anything but for those that asked (not many, actually), we let them know. To us, it wasn''t a big deal as our symbolic religious ceremony was the one that held the most meaning.

(The visit to City Hall was very impersonal, like getting a a driver''s license or something. I didn''t have that ''married feeling'' at City Hall that I did after our DW.)

 

[LilyKat]

Date: 6/21/2009 1:35:16 PM
Author: CDNinNYC
We had our legal ceremony prior to leaving for our DW. We didn''t announce anything but for those that asked (not many, actually), we let them know. To us, it wasn''t a big deal as our symbolic religious ceremony was the one that held the most meaning.


(The visit to City Hall was very impersonal, like getting a a driver''s license or something. I didn''t have that ''married feeling'' at City Hall that I did after our DW.)

I would go with this approach. It''s actually pretty common in the UK, as only certain places are licensed for legal weddings, so if you want to get married somewhere that isn''t licensed (eg a religious building that isn''t a church, hall, unlicensed castle, home), you just pop in to the registry office and get the formalities done first wearing jeans and a T-shirt. No guest is ever offended as it''s not remotely seen as the wedding ceremony, just the legal formality. Friends who have done this celebrate their wedding anniversary on the "symbolic wedding" day.

I wouldn''t hide it as such, but I wouldn''t make a big deal of it. In every way that matters, your destination wedding will be your real wedding.

 

[wannaBMrsH]

I am going to give you both perspectives, the bride and the guest.

Last summer, FI and I went to a DW for a friend of mine. I had known him and his fiancee for years and was so excited about their upcoming wedding. It was a bit of a financial struggle to make it to their wedding because FI and I had been on a big travel kick early in the year and through the summer, but we made it work. They picked a very luxurious resort and we went ahead and booked there and did the whole ordeal because it meant alot that we be there.

When we arrived, we found out that they had already been married and that they initially gave guests the option of which wedding to attend, the JP one back home or the DW and as they discovered that most people were opting to celebrate their marriage on their marriage day, they pretty much stopped telling everyone (even though a huge number of guests knew). We didn''t know and we felt very cheated. It felt like they invited us to participate in their honeymoon. We didn''t say anything to them and still celebrated (with the other 10 guests who attended) but we had several conversations about that, especially when we heard comments regarding FI''s financial position and how "he can afford it" while their backhome guests couldn''t. Very sad.

That said, we are having both our civil and religious ceremony at our DW. I would hate to feel like I "tricked" my guests into coming and the whole point is for them to witness the moment that we become husband and wife. It will be a bit more of a hassle for us to wait for our license to come back and file it with our state, but it will be worth it to only have one anniversary date and for our families to not be confused when they see our license or find any public records with a different date.

That is my two cents, but please realize I am biased because of what happened to us.

 

[FutureMrs.McKerrall]

Thank you all for your opinions. I hope that you all had an awesome weekend

I can see valid points on both sides. I would never want my friends and family to feel cheated but at the same time, convenience and financially, the symbolic ceremony makes sense to us. We would of course, celebrate our anniversary the day that the symbolic ceremony took place. We have booked the judge for the ceremony just incase we do the civil ceremony at the DW. I have 10 months to kick this idea around.

Thanks again to all of you.

 

[freudianflip]

We are having our DW in Mexico next year and decided to have our legal ceremony in the U.S., at City Hall, a day or two before we leave. It just seems simpler, given that Mexico requires a 4 full business day waiting period after you enter the country, plus FI was married 12 years ago and he''d have to get additional documentation of his divorce. We haven''t decided if we''ll tell anyone aside from my sister and her husband (our two witnesses), but truthfully I don''t think that knowing this would detract from our guests'' experience or the significance of our ceremony on the beach in Mexico.

Our relationship is so much more than a legal union, and while that piece is important to us, our Mexico ceremony will be the true celebration of our love and an affirmation of what we already have together. I highly doubt that our loved ones would feel deprived of anything, knowing that the legal ceremony had already occurred a few days before in the States. We also have asked our friend, who introduced us, to officiate, so the Mexico ceremony is going to be full of meaning and very personal to us, therefore exceptionally special for our guests as well

 

[honey22]

I would have the legal ceremony at the DW. It wouldn''t feel right for me to be already married and ''play along'', it just wouldn''t have the same meaning.

And I would have to admit yes, I would be peeved if I spent money and effort flying to a DW to find out they were already married, it defeats the purpose KWIM?

 

[katamari]

A question for everyone then (and sorry for the slight threadjack), but isn''t it just as easy to do the whole City Hall thing after[/b] the DW? So why is it perceived as easier before? Or do you all just find it more desirable to do it before?

 

[CDNinNYC]

Date: 6/27/2009 12:06:20 PM
Author: katamari
A question for everyone then (and sorry for the slight threadjack), but isn''t it just as easy to do the whole City Hall thing after[/b] the DW? So why is it perceived as easier before? Or do you all just find it more desirable to do it before?

Everyone''s situation is different but for us it was preferable to do the City Hall thing in the US prior to our DW because we needed all our paperwork ready for Customs/Immigration when we returned. We''re Canadian but living in the US and my Visa status changed when we married. We debated doing having our Legal Ceremony in Mexico but in the end, it was just simpler for us, Immigration-wise, to have an American marriage certificate.

 

[zipzapgirl]

Date: 6/27/2009 12:06:20 PM
Author: katamari
A question for everyone then (and sorry for the slight threadjack), but isn''t it just as easy to do the whole City Hall thing after[/b] the DW? So why is it perceived as easier before? Or do you all just find it more desirable to do it before?

Wouldn''t this be even more questionable for the guests? They come to a wedding and when they leave, the bride and groom still aren''t married legally? I guess this would make me more concerned as a guest.

 

[katamari]

Date: 6/29/2009 12:17:16 PM
Author: zipzapgirl

Date: 6/27/2009 12:06:20 PM

Author: katamari

A question for everyone then (and sorry for the slight threadjack), but isn''t it just as easy to do the whole City Hall thing after[/b] the DW? So why is it perceived as easier before? Or do you all just find it more desirable to do it before?

Wouldn''t this be even more questionable for the guests? They come to a wedding and when they leave, the bride and groom still aren''t married legally? I guess this would make me more concerned as a guest.

I totally see your point and now understand the difference. IMO, I would find it more questionable that they were already legally married when I came than that they wouldn''t be legally married when I left (and I want to note that I am using "questionable" lightly, because I would fully understand why it had to happen and not see it as "wrong" either way). I think it is a matter of perspective, but given that many people have a courthouse wedding and no formal ceremony, I see the courthouse wedding as more stand-alone than the symbolic ceremony.

Either way, though, there is no good solution. I think including the guests in the celebration of the relationship is far more important than the legal aspect, and I am fully in favor of separating the two. Not to trivialize the legal benefits of marriage (at least in the U.S.), because I fully understand the privileges straight couples are awarded through them, but ultimately your guests are there to celebrate the symbolic connection and not the legal one.

 

[ysj99]

this is a really interesting thread. we are not have a DW, but have thought of having a legal JOP ceremony before so that i can be covered by FI''s health insurance between after my licensing exam and our wedding. i''m not sure what to do here either and can definitely see everyone''s views here.

 

[FutureMrs.McKerrall]

FI and I looked into to having the legal ceremony after the DW but were told that you are not allowed to have the symbolic ceremony prior to being legally married. Before they perform the symbolic ceremony, they ask you for your marriage registration form from City hall or wherever you go. (The names for the forms and stuff might be different, I live in Canada)

I understand that some people would be upset if they found out, and I also appreciate all the honest comments from all of you. However, would you dwell on the fact that you spent $2,000 to go to a wedding that already took place or could you let it go and have a blast partying for a week on the beach with your closest family and friends? How mad do you think someone could get over this?

 

[wannaBMrsH]

Date: 7/3/2009 5:33:50 PM
Author: FutureMrs.McKerrall
FI and I looked into to having the legal ceremony after the DW but were told that you are not allowed to have the symbolic ceremony prior to being legally married. Before they perform the symbolic ceremony, they ask you for your marriage registration form from City hall or wherever you go. (The names for the forms and stuff might be different, I live in Canada)

I understand that some people would be upset if they found out, and I also appreciate all the honest comments from all of you. However, would you dwell on the fact that you spent $2,000 to go to a wedding that already took place or could you let it go and have a blast partying for a week on the beach with your closest family and friends? How mad do you think someone could get over this?

I think if you are going to go this route, you should not tell your guests.

Honestly, if I had known the couple in my post above were already married, I would NOT have chosen to spend my $2000 to travel to their wedding. FI and I could have used the $2000 to go somewhere of our choosing and party for a week or whatever. We would have sent a lovely gift to them to celebrate their wedding, but we wouldn''t have gone.

Again, we made no comment about this to them during their "wedding", but we have really distanced ourselves simply because we feel they LIED. They asked us to be a part of an important event in their lives, and then didn''t invite us to their actual wedding. Instead, we were invited to spend our money at their "symbolic ceremony" and spend their honeymoon with them.

I LOVE WEDDINGS, but the part that I love is watching the two people in love make that lifelong commitment to each other and share in the real emotion of that day. I feel totally cheated that we weren''t able to share that and instead got to watch a staged re-enactment of the real thing.

This would not even be an issue, if we didn''t know that they were already married. We wouldn''t have known otherwise. But we do know and FI feels taken advantage of and honestly, so do I. We barely speak to them now and we didn''t invite them to our wedding.

 

[pjean]

Date: 7/3/2009 7:11:59 PM
Author: wannaBMrsH

I think if you are going to go this route, you should not tell your guests.

See, the trouble here is that you're advising people to lie, which is ostensibly what got you so angry at your friends.

My FI and I got married at the courthouse in August of last year for immigration reasons. We'd already set our wedding date for October of this coming year. When we agreed that we'd get the paperwork done, we agreed that the wedding would be the important celebration for us, and that we'd consider our trip to the courthouse to be like filing taxes. I stipulated that we would only go through with it if we told our parents first, and they were ok with it. Sadly, we didn't nail down exactly who would know.

Now we're in this strange position where my family and friends all know, but on my FI's side, only his mother knows. Very awkward.

I know there is a difference between the kind of long period that I'm in and that ysj99 is contemplating, and the immediately pre-wedding paperwork that can accompany a DW. However, I would say that in either case, honesty is the best policy. Any awkwardness we've experienced is because we're trying to keep someone from finding out about our trip to the courthouse.

ETA: I want to add that the "emotion of the day" is very real for us. I don't think guests at symbolic ceremonies need to feel cheated of being there for the most important day of our lives.

 

[mrscushion]

I understand wannaBmrsH''s position because in her friend''s case there was initially a choice of two weddings and there was a real celebration surrounding the first, legal, ceremony.

However, usually, pre-DW legal marriages aren''t celebrated -- you take two witnesses (because you''re required to), it''s a 10-minute thing and that''s it.

In comparison, you spend many months planning the "symbolic" destination wedding. That wouldn''t feel staged to me. After reading this thread, I''ve also asked a few friends what they would think, and none of them thought it was problematic, either.

 

[SixString]

Although I''m not engaged yet, FF and I have talked about eloping in France when we''re ready to get married. Unfortunately, it''s a huge hassle over there because you have to LIVE in France for 30 days, as well as publish your intent to get married, etc. Then you have to have a legal wedding at the courthouse before you can have a wedding in a church (the pastor can not legally marry you because of the separation of church & state laws). You also have to provide them with certified, translated versions of your birth certificates and a few other uber complicated things. Upon returning, you''d have to get your married license translated to English, blah blah blah.

We have decided that when the time comes, we are going to sign the paperwork at the courthouse, elope in France, and throw a reception/party for family and friends when we return. That way, everyone gets to help us celebrate! Of course, we would celebrate the day of our ceremony as our anniversary.