Colored gem experts in Toronto?

[raddygast]

Hello,

I''ve been trying to do my internet research in the lead-up to getting an engagement ring. Several things have already been discussed and decided, but the most important is that I don''t want any diamonds in the ring at all. Colored gemstones are the way to go, and I''m hoping to get a really creative custom setting as well.

Then I realized all the internet sites I''ve found have been in the US, and recently I''ve had a hell of a time with US-Canada customs holding very low-value packages and parcels for up to a month at a time. I was really hoping to find some places within Canada for either gemstone purchasing or a full-service jeweller.

Now I have been reading quite a bit that suggests it''s best to go with a jeweller who has "connections" and can locate stones and evaluate them with expertise I can''t hope to replicate. But the downside is that most jewellers specializing in engagement rings pretty much know about diamonds and almost nothing else. Since Toronto is such a huge city and there are tons of private jewellers (who do custom designs very well), I was wondering if someone could suggest to me a jeweller who knows their colored stones very well?

I was originally thinking sapphire, but now I''m leaning more towards the fancy (non-blue) sapphires both for originality and because I could probably get a much nicer (more intense, well-cut, and/or even bigger) stone in, say, pink or violet than I could in blue. I am also considering spinel, or any other really unique colored stones (though something like tourmaline would have to be set in such a way that it wouldn''t get horribly busted up during normal use).

Any suggestions? People seem to be saying "find your stone, then design the ring" but I''ve been sort of wanting to do the opposite. Is that wrong?

 

[bar01]

First of let me congratulate you on the "no diamonds at all" approach to your engagement ring. Very individualistic of you. I started off this way too - but decided to add some side diamonds after we saw a ring at Tiffanys that we both liked.

Don't give up on a Sapphire yet. There is a site in Canada:

www.sapphires.ca


About the getting the stone vs. getting the setting first - this is up to debate. Kind of comes back to the old "internet vs. B&M store" debate.

For many of us consumers who have come to PS - it is just that finding a good local jeweler can be difficult - but finding one that truly knows and carries fine colored gems like Sapphires is even more difficult.

Many of the web sites mentioned here (walterarnstein, cherrypciked, etc,,) specialize in nothing but sapphires and/or colored stones. This is their business. Many of these buy their colored stones direct from overseas mines and eliminate the middleman and markups.

What is your budget breakdown for your ring vs. the colored stone? In my case the Sapphire was the most expensive part - by a wide multiple - and the setting was relatively simple to have duplicated.

However, if you can find a great local jeweler, especially if your setting is going to be complex or expensive - this may be a great approach. It is just so hard to find them.

 

[raddygast]

Hi Bar01,

I hope you can help me out since you've gone through the process before and seem to be genuinely interested in this sort of thing, judging by your post count. I am a hard guy to please though -- I tend to get REALLY obsessively interested in "projects" and hobbies of this sort, and especially since this is supposed to be a once-in-a-lifetime thing I am treating it with a great deal of importance and respect. In fact, I usually ask way too many questions for anyone to answer out of the goodness of their heart. Even sales people get irritated at my usual barrage!

Regarding that canadian sapphire site (sapphires.ca) I think the main problem for me there would be the degree of gem-snobbery. I understand why one would want untreated stones, but to be realistic, heat treating will probably open a lot of doors for me. I imagine I'd be able to afford a much nicer (more intense, or bigger, or both) stone for my money if I went treated vs non-treated. Since I'm also hoping for a kick-ass unique (and custom-designed) setting, I don't want to blow the whole bankroll on the stone alone, though clearly the stone is the most important part of it.

Every time I read about cherrypicked I get more and more excited. Do people here think it's good value for the money? It looks like you can pick some really high quality gems with the comfort of knowing that it has been rated by experts (although is there any guarantee that these guys aren't just pimping inferior products because they have a deal with the site to promote their stones?). I'd love to go that route but I am waiting to hear back from them regarding shipping to Canada and potential customs problems.

Anyway, Bar01, I hope you read the post I'm about to make which is more general in nature. I really hope some of the forum regulars here get involved, because I really just want to get the juices flowing and hear opinions from all types of people. Though I warn you the thread will probably be quite long! I'll call it "Help a pauper brainstorm: Custom E-Ring ideas"

 

[bar01]

Yes I have been through this as a consumer in search of a sapphire e-ring.

I am exactly like you in terms of obsession about things - especially once (or twice in my case) in a life time choices. Heck! I spent a month once just learning about steaks (cuts, grades, fat content, hormones, types of cows, what they eat and how it affects the taste of the meat, sources around the world, how cow farts are damaging the environment...- LOL!)

You can't ask too many questions about something as special as this. And too bad about barraging sales people! You’re the one with the cash! I have spent over three months researching sapphires. I have bought two books and spent much time on the internet. I have been to many stores asking to see their finest sapphires - so I could see what looks good to me. I feel the more I know - the less I know - you know?


Yes - I admit wanting an untreated stone is a bit of snobbery - so call me a snob! (LOL!). An untreated stone will cost you about 40% more than a treated one and is difficult to find. You will find a larger selection of treated quality stones. I won't say that treated are better than untreated in terms of looks. It is just so rare to pull a Sapphire out of the ground that is so beautiful that it does not need heat treating. Again - getting a fine looking Sapphire was number one issue. Untreated was just something I was willing to pay for.

I talked with several sources for my Sapphire, the people over at simplysapphires.com, Bill Kent over at Sapphires.ca, Michael Arnstein at Walterarnstein.com, and Richard Orbach at Cherrypicked.com. Honestly - if walterarnstein had what I wanted I probably would have bought from them since all they do is blue sapphires. Bill Kent had some nice stones (priced nicely too) for untreated, but they were not what I would call "Exceptional" - a little too low on the saturation and tone - again call me a snob!

I came across cherrypicked and they had almost exactly what I wanted, but slightly smaller. I started some conversations with Richard Orbach and checked up on them. Cherrypicked.com is the internet face of Reginald C. Miller, Inc. a very old, Respected, New York Dealer. I talked to a few experts in the trade - like Howard Rubin - and they have known them for years and spoke highly of them. Their "CherryPicked" grading system is easy to understand and allows you to compare against all stones they have had. Also their policies are very nice - give em your credit card and they ship you (you pay for shipping) a stone for to evaluate - no obligation - no questions asked if you return. Get your sapphire look at it in different lights, take it to some jewelery stores to compare it, then if you like it - have it independently evaluated by an expert (Like Richard Sherwood here on PS)to confirm the quality and price - during your evaluation time.

I have heard some people say the stones on Cherrypicked seem "fully valued" (i.e. not discounted) but I got a fair price on something that was near impossible to find - fine color, round, untreated.

There are other sources mentioned here - like awesomegems.com, Thiagem.com, etc.. but I do not know anything about them.

Buy the way - I just got the side diamonds ordered from Whiteflash. I plan on getting the setting started with them sometime next month. Will post photos when done!

 

[raddygast]

I got very excited when I saw all the recommendations for CherryPicked.com. I've scoped out that site a few times in the past and it seems really cool. Are there any negative comments about it? Richard Orbach emailed me to answer one of my questions and was very helpful so I've got good vibes already. The only fear I have is the cross-border customs charges -- for example, if I'm just "evaluating" a stone, I still may get slapped with a serious duty and tax charge on it.

The other thing is cherrypicked.com doesn't really seem to have that many gems. Is it because they only put up "cherries", as it were? I tried looking for spinels and what they had was basically too big, same for sapphires, rubies, etc. Anything in the 1 to 1.2 ct range was SOLD. In fact, almost everything on that site shows as SOLD. I wonder if there's a good time of the week to browse -- or maybe there is a secret area in the back where you can tell them what you're looking for? I heard about the Private Salon but don't know what's involved in accessing it.

Any tips you have are appreciated, esp. if you got your sapphire from cherrypicked. I'd like to know what's involved in the process. I get the feeling prices are not going to be that stellar but I don't want to risk one of the bargain basement sites sending me a crap stone that simply looks good in the picture. I figure if I'm going to pay for quality, better make sure it really is quality.... which makes me apprehensive about inspecting stones at my jeweller.

Still, I am all ears if anyone actually knows of a good place that's "jacked in" to the colored gem grapevine in Toronto.

 

[spinel]

Hello Raddygast, I would like to refer you to Johns of Siam Corundum Inc, based on 45th Queen Street, Toronto. Johns is a sapphire expert cutter and jeweler and might be able to help you find out your stone around your area. Best wishes.

 

[raddygast]

Spinel,

I did a search and found that Siam Corundum is in the 55 Queen St. building (which is full of gem wholesalers, lapidaries, labs, etc.). I actually went there but it isn''t exactly a retail outlet -- who should I be contacting? There was a lapidary there that referred me to a jewellery store on the same floor, and I went in there but there stuff was of poor quality and it felt like a bargain-basement jewellery wholesaler. Plus apparently they let me in by mistake because I need some sort of jewellery-trade business card or a reference to get into those places.

If you have anybody in mind who would have a good selection of red spinels, I would love it if I could be put into contact with them directly, preferably over email but any other method is appreciated too. Thanks.

 

[spinel]

Byrex Gems carries some nice and expensive pink sapphires but I dont see anyone carry spinels in Toronto. It's very hard to find quality red spinels in US and it is more difficult to find it in Canada. But dont give up!

Will send you a pm.

 

[leggs]

Found a couple of gem links for you to check out. Hope they help and good luck with the ring.

http://cbq.qc.ca/DOCS-FR/participants_EN.htm


http://www.ontario.servpro.ca/listcompht/31424/Diamonds-Gem.html

I also am always searching for the Canadian dealers.