confession

[megster84]

I have posted before about my SO being in grad school and how this is not the most ideal situation for us. Well, we had a talk about it last night and I just had to get some thoughts from others in similar situations or anyone in a tough place trying to make the best choice moving forward in their relationship or life.

So here is the deal: He is getting his Master''s here in Delaware right now (in his second year). We moved from Connecticut (both of our families are from Conn and he got BA and 1st masters from UConn) to Delaware with the initial thought of returning to Conn for his PhD. We were talking last night about ''the timeline'' (you ladies know what I am talking about!) and came to a crossroads on what the best choice for the future is, staying in Del. or going back to Conn. for his PhD. The tough decision is that if he goes back to UConn for his PhD that limits jobs prospects more than Del since schools don''t usually hire ''their own'' and we want to permanently settle in Connecticut but I aslo want it to truly be the best choice for him, me and us. As for me, I have no idea what I want to do with my life career wise, so moving isn''t a problem in that aspect. Yet, my friends and family are all back in Connecticut and I miss them (I know he does too) We are looking to get engaged in the next year or so then a year or so engagement. The PhD will take him until 2012 to finish if he stays on target and I will be 28 by then. The thoughts of marriage and children and buying a house are flowing through both of our heads right now and we want all of these things to happen back in Conn. He is torn between both and I am as well (although I am leaning to going back home, his mind changes from day to day)

So what would you do? or have you done? Do any of the rest of you hate how graduate school has a chokehold on moving forward? (I do!) More than anything, thanks for reading, any thoughts or similar stories would be appreciated!

xoxo

 

[wannaBMrsH]

Megster-

I have no advice and even if I did, I wouldn''t recomend that you accept it from me. I am an emotional rollercoaster lately between trying to wait patiently and wanting very badly to make sure that everyone has time to plan for a DW at the end of next summer.

I just wanted to say that I LOVE, LOVE your signature!!!

Shiny is my favorite color! And my 6-year old niece (that I adore) is constantly distracted by shiny!!!

 

[megster84]

Thanks! I figured it was an appropriate signature for PS. Every single time I am with SO and I walk past a jewelry store I always say "oohhh, shiny!" He thinks I have a problem, I think I just have an appreciation for the shiny-er things in life!

 

[SoontobeMrsB]

Megster,

I have never actually posted on this board, but I did lurk a LOT when I was waiting for my now FI to propose. I saw your post and thought I''d respond.

I''m currently in grad school myself, for a PhD and set to graduate in 2011. FI and I are getting married in March of 2009. Once I graduate, we''re probably going to have to move at least once, if not twice for me to do post docs (I don''t know if your BF''s career would require one. Mine does). Ultimatley we too want to move back home to be close to our friends and family. However, I''ve had to accept that I really, really want this degree, and that for the time being sacrifices are going to have to be made. We are not going to wait for me to finish everything though, to start achieving our goals as a couple.

Personally, I dont'' want to have kids while I''m still in school. I can''t imagine doing what I do and being pregnant (I''m in science). However, I do know several people, and have had several friends in my program (all guys) who have had children while being in school. It made the schedule a little tighter, but they came in early and left early to make sure they had time with their families. Most of our advisors also have a home life, and they understand that sometimes family has to come first. We''ve talked about having kids when I''m in a post doc, and I''m much more comfortable with that.

I think your BFs decision needs to be his, and his alone....I know that I would be really resentful towards my FI if he had pressured me to go to school closer, to not get my degree at all, because this is something I have wanted for years. I dont'' know if your BF is the same way. I guess my advice is: You have to decide whats more important to you both...being able to move home right now, or having to be away for a few years for your BF to finish school, and give himself a better chance at a career where you both want to be. Just my $0.02

Cait

 

[megster84]

Cait, thanks so much for posting! I really really appreciate hearing the other side''s thoughts. He is in a liberal arts program so post doc work isn''t in the cards, but push to publish will be. I would NEVER ask him to give up his dream of the PhD just so I could move home, and I have made that really clear. I have also made it clear that I will not be unhappy following him around...it is such a rough spot. I love him but I don''t want to lose my life and choices too. I am sure everyone in relationships can relate. We emailed today about it and he is now leaning to wanting to go home for the PhD but 2 days ago it was staying here in Del. I guess, we will have to see where he gets in and go from there...thanks for the thoughts!

 

[Munchkin]

1. Apply in both states. There is no guarantee he'll get into both and your decision may be made for you. The PhD app deadlines are early enough that you will have a few months to apartment hunt wherever.

2. Which program is more prestigious? In academia the source of your PhD DOES matter. Having lived in CT and out of CT, it has been my experience that a UConn degree means a lot less out of state. Chances are at least some of the people interviewing him in the work force will be from outside CT and not feel as strongly about a UConn PhD.

3. Financially, what makes the most sense? If you've been living in Delaware then he won't be eligible for in state tuition at UConn for at least one semester. PhD costs add up quickly. Is the school in Delaware private or public? Will either program give him a fellowship/stipend/ TA position to offset costs? Is there student housing at both?

Have him meet with the faculty and current doctoral students at all the schools. Can he look at these people and think "I am willing to practically live with these people. I am willing to stay up until all hours with these people hashing out ideas. I have enough respect for these people that I can let them proof my dissertation and tear it to shreds - without taking it too personally. These are the kind of people I am willing model myself after."

ETA: I have my masters, my husband still needs his. He seriously isn't getting in anywhere. The program he wants is only found at limited schools, and neither of us worked hard in our undergrad years. (We spent all our time together!) Both of us have poor undergrad grades. I had the luxury of being an excellent tester and getting 700/800 on my GREs. Plus, my programs interviewed so I could "sell" myself. I talked my way into an Ivy grad program. His programs? No interviews. It actually states that they don't interview. He is an decent test taker so his GREs are above average - but nothing hugely impressive.

The rest of our life is on hold. We live in a neutral state (home state for neither of us) where we'll likely stay until he completes his masters as he plans to work full time and study part time. His current job supports him in his endeavor. I gave a great job - so our finances are stable. We don't plan to buy a house or raise kids here, though. We will likely move to my home state for that. I also won't have kids until he is at least one year into his program. I am in pediatrics and I have a masters, so I understand how much work both can be! It isn't a wise idea for him to encounter BOTH lifestyle changes at once!

So, we can't have kids until he is part-way through, we won't buy a house until we decide where we want to raise our family and none of this can begin to move forward until he is accepted somewhere!

I am really frustrated at feeling like my life in on hold while schools decide our fate!

 

[katamari]

My FI and I are both getting PhDs, and committing to each others'' professional lives is, sadly, a very real part of our relationship. We are committed to making it work. But, we have to be open to the very real possibilities of being apart from one another or having one of us sacrifice some life planning for the other.

You have gotten some really good advice so far. Is your BF planning on going into academia when he finishes his PhD? If so, the most honest advice I can offer is that you need to detach yourself from the idea of living in one state, or even a geographic region. Part of committing to a relationship with an academic PhD is committing to the uncertainty of the lifestyle through tenure (so you really need to be planning on how to make it through tenure and not just grad school). Unfortunately, like many other suggested, going into academia means that you have to let it dictate a lot of your life decisions, often including family planning and settling down. The more prestigious your BFs program is, the more opportunity he will have, but, for most academic markets, even top candidates from the best programs with impressive cvs only get a very small number of job offers.

The other thing to consider is that the transformation is not smooth for transferring programs. For instance, in our program, people who come in with an MA or ABD generally take just a year less to finish than those who come from undergrad. Would it be better for him to just finish earlier, or move to Conn and be in grad school longer. He will need to talk to his advisors about his long term plans. Ultimately, this will be were the best advice comes from because they know the markets best.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 10/29/2008 10:50:14 PM
Author: Munchkin
Have him meet with the faculty and current doctoral students at all the schools. Can he look at these people and think ''I am willing to practically live with these people. I am willing to stay up until all hours with these people hashing out ideas. I have enough respect for these people that I can let them proof my dissertation and tear it to shreds - without taking it too personally. These are the kind of people I am willing model myself after.''

Ditto this. My friend is starting to think about grad school, and FF''s only advice to her is to find professors that you WANT to work with, luckily he''s found a department where he respects and likes his professors as professors, but also as people. Because we end up seeing them before class, after class, on the weekends, any time when there isn''t class, and often not on campus. These people become almost family, and certainly friends.

I need to get comfy because you and I have a lot in common...

Ok. I''m an undergrad (older than FF, but whatever) and I''m set to graduate in December 2009. FF is a PhD student in Sociology. He is 26 and will likely graduate in Spring 2010 OR 2011.

We have been through a lot together. When we first met he was about a year from finishing his MA. At that point he was considering going to a different university because he had gotten his undergrad and MA from our local university, and felt that he needed to broaden his education. He spent hours and hours researching schools and professors, and after doing this multiple times (I think three?) between that point and now, he''s stayed here for a lot of reasons, but mostly because he didn''t want to start over from scratch with the people he''s working with. He''ll be graduating with his PhD a lot earlier than most, and with less in student loan debt because his entire education is at one institution. Which is a good thing and a bad thing.

So. That brings me to what happens at graduation. When I graduate, I''ll start working where ever I can get the best paying job, so that I can support us (we''ll be engaged by then) and he can finish his PhD faster. To me it doesn''t really sound like your SO really has an idea of what goes into getting a job in academia. Unfortunately FF has been on the selection committee for a professor, and what he and I both found out was not pretty for academics. What we discovered jointly is that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of applicants for every single job. For the one he was a part of, they went through about 60 CVs, and had a meeting to select about 6 from that group. They were flown out here, interviewed, gave presentations, and flew back to where they came from. No one was hired. The applicants all left something to be desired, either in their personalities, their areas of research, their skill sets, etc.

So we discovered that first of all, IF (big if) an university is interested in you enough to fly you out, that means diddly squat--you still have to be the best fit of the applicants they are flying out. Second, region means NOTHING. For FF, he''s going to apply at every university he can--across the country. Our least desirable spots, the south and midwest, but if it comes down to living there, or FF not getting a job, we''ll have to go somewhere we don''t want to.

And thats the thing about academia--you have to be prepared to go where the jobs are. We, because there is only one university in our city, will have to move out of our city, and most likely out of state. That means leaving behind both of our families and all of our friends. Yes it''s going to suck in a lot of ways, but without some kind of livelihood, there isn''t much fun to be had. And it''s not often that a professor leaves a department-through retirement, moving, etc, so there aren''t that many job openings in a department at any given time, and getting a job anywhere is a gamble. The departments have to be looking for your specific skill set, your research and you have to fit in with their personalities. AND there has to be a job opening. That has only happened once in FF''s department in the past 8 years. And the position wasn''t filled.

So I''m going to say this: Be grateful that you are from the East Coast. There is a large concentration of universities and colleges out there, and that means less travel for the two of you, if he can get a job on that side of the country. This could be a lot worse than it is.

Believe me, sister, we are in very similar situations, the only differences being that I don''t want kids, and that I don''t care about staying in a state. Luckily my future career is likely to be some kind of entrepreneurial thing, so I''m not partial to where we go for that reason. But academia sucks because it''s unpredictable until they get a job.

 

[megster84]

WOW - it sounds like a lot of us have graduate school issues weaved through our lives! Everyone brings up great points that SO and I have talked about. Program wise, both are comparable, and he has great contacts at both schools, so we are fortunate that way...again I think we are trying to stay neutral until we find out what school he actually gets into. We are also "lucky" that he is a veteran so school in CT would be free if he didn''t get funding (which is ever-changing in this economy, I hear universities everywhere are cutting funding) and he has funding in DE, and would must likely continue if he gets in. Then looking at the job market his biggest reason to get a PhD...he wants one! He likes the idea of being a professor, and hasn''t written it off, but more than anything, he wants the education. He is even toying with starting a construction firm after all this with his military buddies...go figure! The PhD is his dream that I happily support and would never ask him to change for me...but he told me last night that his biggest factor in where is goes is me. While this makes me feel good that I am such a huge factor in his life, it is tough because I don''t want to be the reason we stay or go...everyday our feelings change toward staying or going...ahhhh I just wish it was May ''09 already and we knew where we were going to end up. I am such a planner, it is hard to leave things "up to fate" (but I am working on it).

It is great to hear from so many other ladies. I know that the grad school, job relocation, and just life changes we all make for our relationships (and our partners too) have a huge impact on every aspect of our lives. So if anyone else needs a place to vent, tell a story, or ask advice...this is the place for you! Thanks to all the lovely ladies who chimed in on this post...I really appreciate the advice, thoughts and stories...it is great to not feel alone!

 

[Thomperchik]

Megster84- I don''t know if this will help you, but I''ll give you my .02. FF and I are two years apart. I''ve been out of school for about three years now and he''s serving his last two years in the military. We decided that even though I have an established career, friends & family in FL, I''ll be moving to be with him to his next and last duty station. We''ll be saving money and I''ll be finishing my last few classes in grad school (I''ve been trying to finish my MBA the last three years). When he''s done, he''ll be finishing school, in which then I''ll support us and hopefully when he''s done with school, we can start a family together. When he''s done with the military, we are going to move 1/2 way between my family and his, which is Florida and Kentucky. We decided to make the sacrifice to be away from our families for the time being, but when we are ready to start a family, we''ll move closer to either of them. I guess my point is, we''ll be making a sacrifice to be away from our families until we can have enough money and settle our careers near by. I''ll be honest with you, it sucks, but sometimes you''ll have to sacrifice being away from those you are about until the time is right.

Hope this helps & good luck!

 

[Clairitek]

I''m a little late to this thread but your situation sounds sorta like my life, but vice versa.

I am currently working on my PhD (at UDEL) and I have a year left. I am torn right now between finding a job around here and asking FF to move to a location where I could find my DREAM JOB. Part of my (admittedly sorta selfish) rationale for asking FF to move from his job (that hes been at for 6 months) is that I will have spent a whopping 9 years in college preparing for my dream job. He accepts this and has told me that if I found the opportunity of a lifetime he would move for my sake- even if thats out of the country. The deal is that we will return to the Northeast (somewhere between NJ and RI where our parents will be) when we want to start having kids. I''m sure that a little bit of him is wishing that I won''t ask him to move anytime soon so he could certainly relate to you. I plan on doing the best I can to not interrupt the career he is starting here in PA.

My advice to you is to have your FF apply in both DE and CT. Its no skin off of his back this way. Plus, so much of choosing a PhD program isn''t even the location or reputation of the department he would be applying to but the individual professors at the schools that have a space in their research group and an interesting, funded project. Who knows what will be available in a year.

I personally think its wonderful that you''ve been supportive of him and have moved with him to DE for his education. The perpetual students of the world need supportive SOs like yourself to make the long hard road to PhD easier. I know that having FF in my life certainly motivates me to finish as soon as possible.

On a side note- I''m not sure how new you are to Newark but I will GLADLY show you the ropes and offer advice (where to do your grocery shopping, best coffee on Main Street...) I lived there for 3 years before FF and I bought our house outside of Philly.

Also- I saw that you commented that your FF wants to start a construction business after he gets out of school. Is he in Civil Engineering?

 

[megster84]

Thanks for the kind words C-Tek...we are a great support for one another. He has been awesome helping me through figuring out my career while he works towards his dream. Actually, he is not in Civil Engineering...he is in Liberal Arts at Udel. He was an engineer in the military prior, so that is where the construction thought comes from (yet I know this is not his true dream) We have decided that he will apply to both schools and then wait and see where he gets in. Part of me hopes fate decides it for us, but then again we want to try to control some aspect of our future. I am ok with staying in the area for the PhD. It sounds like we have a similar agreement to you and your SO...I just want to make sure we settle back East and I think in the long run staying at Udel will work out better when we want to go back East. We have also talked about jobs abroad which I would totally cool with for a limited amount of time. Although, I wouldn''t say no to a permanent move to Paris! lol But I don''t think that is in the realm of reality. One of his Prof'' gave him great advice he was telling me the other evening "Don''t take a mediocre job in a bad location, do take a mediocre job in a great location...take your dream job anywhere you can find it, they don''t come along very often." I am trying to breathe for the next 6 months while he applies and we wait to find out where we will be...

 

[Dreamgirl]

I know where you are coming from. FF may or may not go back to school for his masters (I talk about this ALL the time) but the decision would have a HUGE MAJOR impact on when we get engaged then married. You see, I know he wont get married while in school. And a masters takes 2 years. Well, he is currently searching for a better job (again, something I talk about all the time) anyway, if he were at all to get his masters, it would be sometime AFTER he gets this "new job." He has been searching for a better job since May so HOPEFULLY one comes along (he has applied for a couple already) but with this awful economy......

So if he gets this "new job" and things go well, we could be engaged in over a year or so. Unless..............he decides to go back for his masters which is another 2 years (as I said) he wants to be settled into the job before going to school (or getting engaged.) BTW, we are both 27 been together 10 years.
You can see how everything is adding up.
New job=1 to 2 years
Engagement= maybe 1.5 to 3 years from now
= YAY me FINALLY!
OR
New job=1 to 2 years
Masters= 2 MORE years (more waiting)
= I'll end up never getting married. lol

Basically we wont get engaged for within 3 years I'm guessing but if he goes back to school, it may push that back..........

And I mean, what am I supposed to say? Be selfish and tell him forget the masters degree lets just LIVE OUR LIFE ALREADY!!! Or keep hush and just go along waiting waiting.....lol It all depends on this "new job" and how the payscale is. He wants to advance and move up and what not. But he thinks he might need that masters to do so. Unless it isn't required. But I know how he is. And I'll bet he goes back for his masters. Obviously, either way I will support his decision. I'm just getting a little tired of waiting.

 

[purselover]

Hi Megster, just wanted to stop by and say I sympathize, it''s hard not knowing what''s coming next. When my SO was applying to law school we weren''t sure where he would get in, we were hoping it would be one of the top schools by us so we wouldn''t have to move and he could go to a great school. However we also had to think about what would happen if he didn''t get in.... should we move for him to go to the best school he could that was somewhere else in the country, or should he should go to a less prestigious school by our home? For me I just wanted to know where I was going to be living the following year and if I needed to find a new job, apartment, etc. Waiting is never fun, so while I unfortunately don''t have any advice, I just wanted to say I hope you guys figure out what''s best for you. For us we decided he should go to the best school he gets into so he can have the best future possible, it would all be worth it in 3 years when he has better opportunities. Good luck to you, I know this is a conflicting time for both of you, just stick together and you''ll work it out.

 

[megster84]

And I mean, what am I supposed to say? Be selfish and tell him forget the masters degree lets just LIVE OUR LIFE ALREADY!!! - Dreamgirl

I hear that...we have talked about it (SO and I). It is a tough place for both of us. Because he doesn''t want to dominate the relationship by saying "We must go where I get into a PhD program!" and I don''t want to say "You must give up your dream for me!". I also don''t want to give up any dreams or plans I had for my life. I feel like no matter what happens, something, someone will have to lose a little. I guess all I can hope for is that no matter what happens we work through it and both end up happy...and I truly believe that will happen...it is just going to be a lot harder than I would like..

I cannot even begin to tell you ladies how great it is to hear that I am not alone in this situation. None of my girlfriends IRL have anything remotely close to this situation. They are either single, or have boyfriends with very stable careers that will most likely never involved them moving more than 30 minutes away from home. But on the the super duper plus side, we have gotten a chance to see life outside of the home state, travel, meet great people, and fall deeper in love taking this journey together.

P.S. Purselove I heart your icon..I love kitties!