Could I get a critical eye on this eBay seller?

[evergreen]

Hi, y'all. So, I'm browsing eBay and come across this seller, fromnature2you808, and there's nothing on PS about him/her. The listings are a lot of paraibas that are meh in color but (appropriately?) inexpensive, a couple of "cobalt spinels" -- including this one, with some sort of tester in the image https://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-Earth-Mined-deep-Cobalt-Blue-Spinel-2-47-Carats-Look/202861478502 -- and a few other stones. He/she doesn't accept returns, but feedback is 100% positive, and the photos look "fair" -- like, not enhanced, and not necessarily glamour shots. I'm curious about whether you'd take a chance on a colored stone from this seller, though don't quite want to announce which one I'm interested in.

 

[MollyMalone]

Honestly, I never purchase a colored stone from a vendor who does not accept returns (or from an international vendor where returns would be a hassle). Unless the purchase price is so low that it wouldn't bother me to kiss the money good-bye.

There's just no way that you can be assured, on the basis of a few photos (and even a video), that a colored stone will make your heart sing. Here's my longer explanation for saying this, from another thread last month -- hope it helps

* * * Even a larger portfolio of pics isn't a substitute, unfortunately, for seeing a colored gem "up close and personal" under the various lighting conditions that constitute your real life.

Even when vendors are very conscientious about posting videos and/or photos that duplicate, on their monitor/screen, what they themselves see, odds are slim to none that your own display is color-calibrated in sync with theirs. (Because color calibration "drifts" over time, I'm pretty faithful about "refreshing" the built-in color calibration on my Apple products, but I realize that's pretty primitive compared to the snazzy color calibration, requiring special software, that my brother, a photography enthusiast, employs.)

Photos and videos are still only 2 dimensional renderings. And last but not least imo, our eyes and brains don't all "see" colors exactly the same. E.g., I'm super sensitive to the nuances in whites and beiges, but far less so with reds.

So all of this is why I approach every gemstone purchase with the mindset that I'll be making a return (altho' I've ended up only doing that once). * * *

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I believe that particular cobalt spinel has benefited from treatment.
They may not be aware of said treatment as I'm only now seeing more of them available.
The other offerings are not badly priced for what they are. I might look at their bicolor spinels, for the right price.

 

[lovedogs]

I believe that particular cobalt spinel has benefited from treatment.
They may not be aware of said treatment as I'm only now seeing more of them available.
The other offerings are not badly priced for what they are. I might look at their bicolor spinels, for the right price.

I've seen cobalt spinel that color that are heavily treated. For the price I think it's fine, but him not disclosing it is shady and dishonest.

 

[Bron357]

Yes, the Blue spinel is somewhat suspicious, good quality untreated Cobalt spinel are both rare and expensive. As for the photo using a $10 gem tester - ???? Not a comforting sign!
For $350 if you like it, fair enough, but no report and likely treated.
The other spinels look nice and the prices are fair but again no lab reports so who knows.
Buying coloured gems on the basis of a few photos is difficult. Often times in person it’s not as expected. The “no return” is possibly an issue if you don’t like it in person.
The reason for this caveat on eBay now has to do with PayPal keeping the fee even if a mutual return Is conducted. So the vendor will lose money for you not to buy the gemstone.

 

[Horsegirl76]

I find that price way too good to be true for what he claims he is offering.

 

[evergreen]

I believe that particular cobalt spinel has benefited from treatment.
They may not be aware of said treatment as I'm only now seeing more of them available.
The other offerings are not badly priced for what they are. I might look at their bicolor spinels, for the right price.

I've seen cobalt spinel that color that are heavily treated. For the price I think it's fine, but him not disclosing it is shady and dishonest.

Agreed that cobalt spinel is... Well, something's up. It didn't say untreated, so I wouldn't automatically say they're being dishonest, though. I've never seen one so uniformly silky though the color looks good. Not what I'm after, heh, but thought it was an interesting listing.

@MollyMalone that's a great explanation.

With words of wisdom from the group, I'll probably pass, ha! The stone I was considering was https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-55-Natur...ly-rare-blue-violet-6-90x10-35mm/202858693179 if I could get him down to ~$800 or so. Looks windowed, probably shallow, but intrigued by the pink/blue in a single image. Still might try a crazy low bid, appropriate to my risk tolerance. It's annoying not to be able to have a conversation about it, more photos, video, etc like I would if it was a LT seller!

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Yeah, I like that one too. Could be a beauty.
Go ahead and bid low, the worst they can say is no.

 

[evergreen]

Yes, the Blue spinel is somewhat suspicious, good quality untreated Cobalt spinel are both rare and expensive. As for the photo using a $10 gem tester - ???? Not a comforting sign!
For $350 if you like it, fair enough, but no report and likely treated.
The other spinels look nice and the prices are fair but again no lab reports so who knows.
Buying coloured gems on the basis of a few photos is difficult. Often times in person it’s not as expected. The “no return” is possibly an issue if you don’t like it in person.
The reason for this caveat on eBay now has to do with PayPal keeping the fee even if a mutual return Is conducted. So the vendor will lose money for you not to buy the gemstone.

@Bron357 , I'm not even savvy enough to know what that "tester" photo is meant to indicate -- presence of cobalt? (surely not, that's a specialized thing requiring a lab report, or so I thought?). Could you explain what he might be trying to demonstrate?

 

[lovedogs]

Without any kind of proof that you are buying what he says you are, and without a return policy I would pass.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

@Bron357 , I'm not even savvy enough to know what that "tester" photo is meant to indicate -- presence of cobalt? (surely not, that's a specialized thing requiring a lab report, or so I thought?). Could you explain what he might be trying to demonstrate?

I'll jump in.
No, just that it's not CZ or glass. It can't even differentiate between manmade/mined.
If the buyer doesn't know stones they could take it as a guarantee of authenticity, when it doesn't mean anything, really.

 

[Bron357]

@Bron357 , I'm not even savvy enough to know what that "tester" photo is meant to indicate -- presence of cobalt? (surely not, that's a specialized thing requiring a lab report, or so I thought?). Could you explain what he might be trying to demonstrate?

That’s the point, a $10 tester is only good for telling you it’s not glass! It’s as if the vendor is inferring natural, quality “status” or something when the test proves nothing other than it’s not a piece of blue coloured glass.
A gem tester can’t identify between spinel and sapphire (similar heat transfer signature) and most certainly can’t distinguish between Lab grown synthetic and natural. And of course only a lab report (or knowledge, experience and a microscope) can identify heat treatment and diffusion (colour enhancement) treatment.

 

[evergreen]

I'll jump in.
No, just that it's not CZ or glass. It can't even differentiate between manmade/mined.
If the buyer doesn't know stones they could take it as a guarantee of authenticity, when it doesn't mean anything, really.

Ah thanks -- I wish I could get a lovely glass paperweight in that color.

I emailed the seller to ask for more photos/video, whether there's a cert (ha), and whether he/she would consider an exception to the "no returns" policy. I'd be willing to take a chance on it if the price was right and there was a small restocking fee.

 

[evergreen]

Without any kind of proof that you are buying what he says you are, and without a return policy I would pass.

Yeah, I'd probably get a lab report on it since it says untreated, that's the kind of thing that would fall under eBay's buyer protection if it turned out to be enhanced. I've emailed to see if a return window could be offered. We shall see!

 

[lovedogs]

Yeah, I'd probably get a lab report on it since it says untreated, that's the kind of thing that would fall under eBay's buyer protection if it turned out to be enhanced. I've emailed to see if a return window could be offered. We shall see!

Good plan!

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Ah thanks -- I wish I could get a lovely glass paperweight in that color.

I emailed the seller to ask for more photos/video, whether there's a cert (ha), and whether he/she would consider an exception to the "no returns" policy. I'd be willing to take a chance on it if the price was right and there was a small restocking fee.

And you should, you never know how these things shake out. I've been lucky to snag some really amazing deals on stones this way. It's a good rule of thumb to make a cert and return conditions of a sale, especially on Ebay and the like.
*shrugs*Or, if it's really really cheap take a chance and get it certed on your own. I've done that too and been lucky more often than not.

 

[evergreen]

And you should, you never know how these things shake out. I've been lucky to snag some really amazing deals on stones this way.

That's what I dream of!

 

[evergreen]

He responded and offered to send more photos so I asked for natural/incandescent light to judge shifting, and face up/face down straight through the table to check window and color zoning. He cut it himself, so I also asked if he knew where the rough was found. Anybody know a cutter named Adrian in New Mexico?

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I haven't, but it could be promising...Show us when he does!

 

[dk168]

I too believe the price is too good to be true, so I would pass.

DK

 

[shelovesinclusions]

I forget which site it was, but I recently saw an online gem shop list quite a few medium-deep cobalt spinel with a diffusion label. It's a relatively recent treatment (last 5-7 years) from articles I've read, so it's something to look out for in well-priced good blue spinels.

I don't know if it's like how some diffused sapphires are where the treatment goes the whole way through, in which case blue rough would yield blue cut stones- but it seems likely spinel diffusion would go the same route as sapphire, undisclosed until it becomes prevalent and "caught" by angry customers somewhere along the supply chain.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I forget which site it was, but I recently saw an online gem shop list quite a few medium-deep cobalt spinel with a diffusion label. It's a relatively recent treatment (last 5-7 years) from articles I've read, so it's something to look out for in well-priced good blue spinels.

I don't know if it's like how some diffused sapphires are where the treatment goes the whole way through, in which case blue rough would yield blue cut stones- but it seems likely spinel diffusion would go the same route as sapphire, undisclosed until it becomes prevalent and "caught" by angry customers somewhere along the supply chain.

I find it interesting they would bother, precisely because they are not sapphires. It's much harder to pass off in spinels because of their gray cast. True blue no modifier spinels are rarer than hen's teeth.

 

[shelovesinclusions]

I find it interesting they would bother, precisely because they are not sapphires. It's much harder to pass off in spinels because of their gray cast. True blue no modifier spinels are rarer than hen's teeth.

The pictures I've seen are that deep, sharp cobalt color. It seems like it maybe masks the lighter/undesired natural color, just another way to sell a less-than-ideal gem on it's earth-mined virtue alone. But, definitely, sapphires would be so much easier if you're going the diffusion route anyway. I wish I could wrap my head around the economics of intense treatments over synthetics.

 

[lovedogs]

I have strongly considered buying spinels treated this way for the cobalt color (as long as the price seems fair). My issue isn't with the treatments themselves (since finding a natural cobalt spinel of a decent size would be insanely difficult), but lack of clear disclosure irritates me.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I have strongly considered buying spinels treated this way for the cobalt color (as long as the price seems fair). My issue isn't with the treatments themselves (since finding a natural cobalt spinel of a decent size would be insanely difficult), but lack of clear disclosure irritates me.

Me too.
Exactly, no harm when a known quantity. It would be the only way most would get within sniffing distance of that blue unless they buy tiny rough in a tiny jar!
I agree, it's a deceptive practice otherwise.

 

[evergreen]

I have strongly considered buying spinels treated this way for the cobalt color (as long as the price seems fair). My issue isn't with the treatments themselves (since finding a natural cobalt spinel of a decent size would be insanely difficult), but lack of clear disclosure irritates me.

Agreed -- they do replicate the "real" cobalt color pretty darn well, and I love a silky stone... still, that's $$$ for treated. I'm glad I chose that link to include so I could get some opinions -- I've been out of CS for a while and am not "up" on the treatments! I haven't heard back from the seller about the ?bicolor pink-lavender-periwinkle pear spinel that I'm interested in, but still kinda hoping.

 

[Lexililac]

I personally never saw a Cobalt spinel with that sleepy look. They are usually full of cracks but never sleepy. I would be extremely surprised if that one would turn out as a cobalt spinel after a serious lab analysis.