Crooked arrow idealscope

[sindiamonds1]

Hi PS!

Been digging through the forum to learn more about idealscope and aset.

Am planning to get a 0.73 FVS1 diamond - the dimensions look good (higher crown angle/ lower pavilion angle would be perfect) but i am unsure about the idealscope / aset images. The GIA number is 7451217565.

Not sure why but some of the arrows look crooked, and the aset image seems a little off (not symmetrical and looks messy)

Is this a good diamond? A little confused, thank you!

I am also looking at 2 other diamonds but dont have their aset images:
5433186017
1433514176

 

[sindiamonds1]

Hi PS!

Been digging through the forum to learn more about idealscope and aset.

Am planning to get a 0.73 FVS1 diamond - the dimensions look good (higher crown angle/ lower pavilion angle would be perfect) but i am unsure about the idealscope / aset images. The GIA number is 7451217565.

Not sure why but some of the arrows look crooked, and the aset image seems a little off (not symmetrical and looks messy)

Is this a good diamond? A little confused, thank you!

I am also looking at 2 other diamonds but dont have their aset images:
5433186017
1433514176

A local jeweller offered me this 0.8ct diamomd at a good price, but its dimensions look bad:
2456004753

 

[oldminer]

The price follows the quality. The scope is showing you that the stone is not an 'ideal" cut. That's the important thing such a simple tool can do for you and others.
Great example!

 

[sindiamonds1]

hey david, thank you so much for the rapid reply! So this isn't a good diamond? Could the crooked arrow be caused by a badly taken photo? Asking because I am not seeing much light leakages for the aset picture.

Thank you!

 

[sindiamonds1]

the 0.8 carat diamond I mentioned in my reply earlier is not the aset.
The aset is this 0.73 carat diamond GIA 7451217565.

The diamond dimensions do look very good :/

 

[Karl_K]

the 0.8 carat diamond I mentioned in my reply earlier is not the aset.
The aset is this 0.73 carat diamond GIA 7451217565.

The diamond dimensions do look very good :/

Its not a bad diamond by any means.
It has some optical symmetry variations and a bit of painting and short lowers below 75.
That keeps it from the upper scoring categories but its a well balanced combo before the variations.
The overall combo works as shown by the images.
This is one that if someone sees it in person and loves it then its all good.

 

[lovedogs]

Its not an ideal cut, but it's not bad either. What is the price they are asking?

 

[lovedogs]

Also, if you would like us to look at reports, please take a screenshot and attach it directly

 

[musicloveranthony]

If the price is right I would pursue that stone. It's very nice looking and I would be quite inclined to believe you'd never see it as inadequate (assuming the price is right)

 

[sindiamonds1]

Its not a bad diamond by any means.
It has some optical symmetry variations and a bit of painting and short lowers below 75.
That keeps it from the upper scoring categories but its a well balanced combo before the variations.
The overall combo works as shown by the images.
This is one that if someone sees it in person and loves it then its all good.

Wow thanks for this, i am really learning a lot. I am guessing "painting" meaning the girdle area as per my screenshot?

How did you see the short lowers though? Since the gia cert says 75% lower half

 

[sindiamonds1]

Its not an ideal cut, but it's not bad either. What is the price they are asking?

I'm from singapore so diamonds are priced at a premium

This is around 3500 USD

In Singapore, our whiteflash equivalent is jann paul. For comparison:
0.7ct SIC FVS1 4400 USD
0.7ct jann paul decagon cut 111 facets FVS1 5100 USD

 

[sindiamonds1]

Just to put the certs here! In case anyone's curious (:

Diamond 1 (Aset Scope above)


Diamond 2 (No ASET)


Diamond 3 (No Aset)


Diamond 4 (No Aset - imo bad dimensions 0.8ct.. deep cut/ steep crown)


Jann Paul Proprietary Decagon Cut 111 Facets (0.72 ct)



The first 4 diamonds are priced similarly - around 3500 USD.
The Jannpaul is priced at a premium - 5100 USD

Hope this helps! What would you all pick? Thank you!

 

[Karl_K]

Wow thanks for this, i am really learning a lot. I am guessing "painting" meaning the girdle area as per my screenshot?

How did you see the short lowers though? Since the gia cert says 75% lower half

Yes, the green spikes on the girdle being enlarged and the leakage dots closing is a sign of painting/digging.
GIA rounds lowers to the nearest 5 so I am going by appearance.
When clouds are the primary inclusion it needs to be checked for transparency issues.
It is not common for a vs1 to have issues however but it can rarely happen.

 

[lovedogs]

Do you have pics of the other stone options (even without ASET)?

 

[sindiamonds1]

Do you have pics of the other stone options (even without ASET)?

For Diamond 3:

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Wow thanks for this, i am really learning a lot. I am guessing "painting" meaning the girdle area as per my screenshot?

How did you see the short lowers though? Since the gia cert says 75% lower half

Painting is actually much easier to see in an Ideal Scope image. Note especially the lack of small leakages around the girdle (in the idealscope you posted above).

Crown painting is sometimes done to maximize brightness. Unfortunately, it also seems to reduce a bit of scintillation in the process. Some early super-ideals were crafted this way, but were never fully embraced by the market.

Some stones have randomly painted or dug out facets. When you see consistency like this it indicates that it was probably intentionally cut for brightness.

 

[sindiamonds1]

Painting is actually much easier to see in an Ideal Scope image. Note especially the lack of small leakages around the girdle (in the idealscope you posted above).

Crown painting is sometimes done to maximize brightness. Unfortunately, it also seems to reduce a bit of scintillation in the process. Some early super-ideals were crafted this way, but were never fully embraced by the market.

Some stones have randomly painted or dug out facets. When you see consistency like this it indicates that it was probably intentionally cut for brightness.

Thank you so much for this!

Curious though - based on the aset, we can see that painting has been done but this diamond has a lot of red zones

Am i right to say that this diamond would be bright? Without scopes, what would be the cons of this diamond due to painting? (Aside from the fact that it's not super ideal cut)

Appreciate it!

 

[sindiamonds1]

Don't mind me asking another question, thank you so much!

In comparison to the above diamond, is the one at the bottom better? Which one would you choose?

Diamond B



Ignore the white part in the ASET image on the left side - the angle is off. White space wasn't there when viewed through the scope.

Seems like this is a better diamond but it's also not yet Super Ideal cut? Or are they very similar?

Both are priced similarly with the former a larger carat size 0.73!

 

[DejaWiz]

Have you had the opportunity to view them in multiple lighting conditions?
If so, which one appears to capture your eyes more?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thank you so much for this!

Curious though - based on the aset, we can see that painting has been done but this diamond has a lot of red zones

Am i right to say that this diamond would be bright? Without scopes, what would be the cons of this diamond due to painting? (Aside from the fact that it's not super ideal cut)

Appreciate it!

Yes, red indicates light from the highest angles overhead. Presumably direct from the source and therefore the brightest light in the typical environment. The diamond would have excellent brightness.

It may be missing a small amount of scintillation (sparkle). Counter intuitively, it has been found that very small amounts of leakage distributed well can add to dynamic contrast. It is a reason, for example, that 'crushed ice' fancy shapes can have very attractive eye appeal, even though the ASET would show a lot of tiny leakages throughout the stone.

 

[sindiamonds1]

Have you had the opportunity to view them in multiple lighting conditions?
If so, which one appears to capture your eyes more?

Both are really eye catching as they are rather bright. But you have a point here - maybe i should make a trip down again to have a look. Seems like neither the asets are perfect enough to be super ideal

 

[sindiamonds1]

Yes, red indicates light from the highest angles overhead. Presumably direct from the source and therefore the brightest light in the typical environment. The diamond would have excellent brightness.

It may be missing a small amount of scintillation (sparkle). Counter intuitively, it has been found that very small amounts of leakage distributed well can add to dynamic contrast. It is a reason, for example, that 'crushed ice' fancy shapes can have very attractive eye appeal, even though the ASET would show a lot of tiny leakages throughout the stone.

Got it! That's really clear, thank you so much. Essentially, this diamond is likely to be bright but might lack contrast and a little bit of scintillation.

I know the aset scope ain't the best but what do you think of diamond b above? Seems like it has a better contrast as compared to diamond a while still being bright.

If both diamonds were the same price, which would you go for?

 

[tyty333]

@sindidamonds1 Texas Leaguer is in the trade (Whiteflash). Pricescope trade restrictions allow him to "teach" which we
are all grateful for but unfortunately, he can not advise on one diamond over another so you may not get an answer from him.

Super Ideals (by our definition) are H&As so you would need to have the following images for us to evaluate. Plus, they must fall
within strict specs as far as depth/table/crown/pavilion/lowers. Unfortunately, you don't have all of these for each stone you are interested in.
- Asets
- Idealscope
- H&A images

However, you have found a couple of nice stones. I think you are down to which one appeals most to your eye. One stone has
shorter lower halves and will have shorter fatter arrows. The other stone has longer lower halves (80%) and will have longer
thinner arrows. Some prefer one over the other. FYI...Whiteflash ACAs (Super Ideals) use 76-80% (AGS) lower halves.

Good luck...come back and let us know which one you pick! Pictures of the finished ring would also be appreciated!
-

 

[sindiamonds1]

@sindidamonds1 Texas Leaguer is in the trade (Whiteflash). Pricescope trade restrictions allow him to "teach" which we
are all grateful for but unfortunately, he can not advise on one diamond over another so you may not get an answer from him.

Super Ideals (by our definition) are H&As so you would need to have the following images for us to evaluate. Plus, they must fall
within strict specs as far as depth/table/crown/pavilion/lowers. Unfortunately, you don't have all of these for each stone you are interested in.
- Asets
- Idealscope
- H&A images

However, you have found a couple of nice stones. I think you are down to which one appeals most to your eye. One stone has
shorter lower halves and will have shorter fatter arrows. The other stone has longer lower halves (80%) and will have longer
thinner arrows. Some prefer one over the other. FYI...Whiteflash ACAs (Super Ideals) use 76-80% (AGS) lower halves.

Good luck...come back and let us know which one you pick! Pictures of the finished ring would also be appreciated!
-

Ahhh thank you! I wasn't aware regarding the "trade" rules as I am new here - appreciate it.

I did put in a lot of legwork to find these 2 decent diamonds. Glad to know that both are likely to be good choices. I will have a look at them in real life again and update yall on the results

 

[sindiamonds1]

Just an update:

Went down to both stores and took actual hearts and arrows, aset scope pictures

Diamond A



Diamomd B



Wondering if both diamonds are equivalent? Diamond B's aset and hearts and arrows seem a little cleaner but unsure if its my camera angle ><

 

[DejaWiz]

Diamond B looks better from these pictures.

 

[tyty333]

I like B better from the ASET and H&A views.

Edit...what did you think in-person?

 

[sindiamonds1]

I like B better as well - despite the larger table. There was a fair amount of scintillation perhaps due to the 34.5 degree crown angle

 

[sindiamonds1]

Decided to bite the bullet and get diamond B - here's a screenshot of the diamond - thanks for all the help!

 

[sindiamonds1]

Just for educational sake:

- i read a lot about 40.6 pavilion angle leading to obstruction. (When the pavilion angle dips below 40.5)

Because of the camera angle, having an aset picture would help to determine if there's obstruction

Based on the above pics for diamond B, are there obstruction? How do i spot that? Thanks!