Custom Cut/ Recut into Super Ideals

[xxxxxx]

Hi everybody,

I want to purchase Diamond Studs. As the Diamonds will be LGD (and there isn't a direct Super Ideal Vendor for LGD), I have planned to purchase LGD and then have them recut into Super Ideals. I know which Diamond Cutter I want to use.

Where I am struggling is picking the "right" diamonds or rather the right parameters to buy to be recut into super ideals. Is there a set of parameters that I should stick too? For example I have been only looking at diamonds that have at least a 62.4& depth as I haven't come acroos super ideals that have a depth under 62%. Is this stupid? Could anybody give me any other tips?

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[anangel]

I think you haven’t searched enough yet- your outcome may be much better going through Rhino at Distinctive Gem. His lab diamonds are super ideal cuts with all the lab reports to verify exceptional performance.

The Private Reserve

Here in the private reserve are diamonds I've personally vetted and stock in way of Laboratory Grown Diamonds. On this page we also feature the opportunity to custom cut the diamond of your dreams. To learn more about the custom cutting process please visit my new page about that here...

www.distinctivegem.com

 

[oldminer]

Don't get involved in buying your own Lab diamonds in hopes of being able to engineer getting a "super" ideal recut from most diamond cutters. You'll need to turn to sources that make their business to take the time to make diamonds into perfection well beyond the GIA3EX grading parameters.

The suggestion to use a well known source of such ideal cuts already suggested is a far better move. You may appreciate the finer aspects of such ideal cuts, but don't involve yourself as a novice looking for a willing cutter. It isn't a standard situation and you might simply be wasting your time and money. You must rely on a dedicated professional source. Fortunately, there is one.

 

[xxxxxx]

@anangel thank you for your advice! Doing it my „complicated“ way would give me more color, carat and clarity for the same price than going with another retailer and also more control on what kind of LGD (HPHT or CVD).

@oldminer thank you for weighing in. I actually bought a 5 carat round a year ago and had it recut into a 4.5 carat OEC. I paid less than half, instead of having it custom cut from a retailer, specializing in these cuts. With @Karl_K s advice I even gave the cutter exact directions to which parameters the stone could be cut.

I would be going with the same cutter. This cutter also was recommended by Whiteflash a few years ago. He didn’t have super advanced technology (or that’s how it seemed), but I feel like a recommendation from Whiteflash is pretty good?
I won’t ask you a name, but shouldn’t there be some excellent cutter out there?

 

[anangel]

@anangel thank you for your advice! Doing it my „complicated“ way would give me more color, carat and clarity for the same price than going with another retailer and also more control on what kind of LGD (HPHT or CVD).

@oldminer thank you for weighing in. I actually bought a 5 carat round a year ago and had it recut into a 4.5 carat OEC. I paid less than half, instead of having it custom cut from a retailer, specializing in these cuts. With @Karl_K s advice I even gave the cutter exact directions to which parameters the stone could be cut.

I would be going with the same cutter. This cutter also was recommended by Whiteflash a few years ago. He didn’t have super advanced technology (or that’s how it seemed), but I feel like a recommendation from Whiteflash is pretty good?
I won’t ask you a name, but shouldn’t there be some excellent cutter out there?

Your more complicated way only gets you more for your money if everything goes right in the event the diamond does not turn out as expected in terms of cut quality or post cut carat weight, you could be out more than going for the ideal from the get go.
Since you brought up value, I recently made a purchase from @Rockdiamond of Diamonds By Lauren, and although it may not technically be a super ideal, I will say he took my budget way farther than I thought possible. Just putting it out there if you’re looking for good vendors!

 

[Kim N]

I haven't come acroos super ideals that have a depth under 62%.

Can you clarify what you meant by this? I've found a lot of ACAs with depth under 62%. This is one example. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4377163.htm

I don't know if your cutter will cut technically perfect super-ideals, but I feel like he can come pretty darn close.

Btw I plan to be doing this myself in the future, so I will be watching your threads with interest.

 

[headlight]

Not the way to go about it. A recut is not meant for new stones. Buy stones you will be happy with as a new purchase. Recuts are for damaged stones, an inherited stone cut years back before the focus on ideal parameters, trying to enhance a stone of lower quality sold to someone who was taken advantage of, or a young couple on a very limited budget at the time, etc., as examples.

 

[blingmeupscotty]

Tagging to follow

 

[Rfisher]

Is this stupid?

I don’t think it’s stupid, no.

Did you enjoy the process last time?
Did the cutter you used last time give you the impression they’d willingly do a project like this again?
You already know the costs/risks involved (and have stated you are saving from buying from ready made)

The only thing I can think of is on your 4.5 OEC, is that I think you mentioned you weren’t sure you ended up with an ideal cut.
I think the same will apply to these stones. You won’t be sure you have a super ideal cut.

 

[molecule]

It was mentioned in a LGD thread that the LG material is significantly harder to cut than that of natural diamonds.

 

[lovedogs]

I dont think this is a good idea at all (personally). Especially when its entirely possible to get an ideal cut LGD

 

[Alybird]

It was mentioned in a LGD thread that the LG material is significantly harder to cut than that of natural diamonds.

May I ask why this is?

 

[xxxxxx]

May I ask why this is?

I will keep it short as this isn’t the right forum for a question like this. But yes it can be harder to cut especially if the material was treated with HPHT after it was grown as a CVD. But when I got my Stone recut it was fine.

 

[Karl_K]

If someone wants to do this and is going in eyes wide open to the risks then its up to them.
Steep deeps are generally the better recut candidate.
Pavilion over 41 with crown 35 or over 57-58table.

 

[kb1gra]

If someone wants to do this and is going in eyes wide open to the risks then its up to them.
Steep deeps are generally the better recut candidate.
Pavilion over 41 with crown 35 or over 57-58table.

Makes sense, as there would have to be material there to take away otherwise it would be much harder to come up with a balanced stone.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

I don’t have an answer to your question but if you are going to have fun with the process, go for it. I would like to see an increase in affordable bespoke cutters willing to work with small time customers. In combination with cheap LGD it could be really, really fun. I think we are close to getting there.

 

[Wink]

May I ask why this is?

@John Pollard has done some articles about this. Perhaps he will see this and respond.

One of my friends was growing CVD in the early days of lab growns, long before they became available to purchase. He told me he was having the devils own time getting them cut as the carbon bonds were so perfect in all directions the diamonds were much harder than naturals and were beating up his equipment.

I do not know if he was correct or not, but I do know it was a nightmare for him in the beginning.

Wink

 

[Karl_K]

Makes sense, as there would have to be material there to take away otherwise it would be much harder to come up with a balanced stone.

If you dont have to move the girdle much your way ahead of the game.
A flat top with a deep pavilion is less ideal for a recut because you have to move the girdle a lot to get a higher crown which leads to a lot of lose of mm width.
Basically your moving the girdle down the pavilion and it tapers smaller as you go.

 

[DejaWiz]

.
A flat top with a deep pavilion is less ideal for a recut because you have to move the girdle a lot to get a higher crown which leads to a lot of lose of mm width.
Basically your moving the girdle down the pavilion and it tapers smaller as you go.

Here's a very quick and crude visual aide to hopefully help picture what Karl means:

 

[John Pollard]

Makes sense, as there would have to be material there to take away otherwise it would be much harder to come up with a balanced stone.

It also puts the right kind of output in play. Generally, CVD grown diamonds are being cut to shallow proportions - not great as recut candidates for this purpose.

HPHT produced rough is cubo-octahedral, more like natural growth, with deeper geometry.

RE "more difficult to work with:" A number of years ago CVD output was more challenging for (experienced) cutters due to vertical growth. There's still challenging riffraff out there as more and more producers enter the arena with nominal equipment and materials - but the highest quality output doesn't have those challenges.

 

[xxxxxx]

Not the way to go about it. A recut is not meant for new stones. Buy stones you will be happy with as a new purchase. Recuts are for damaged stones, an inherited stone cut years back before the focus on ideal parameters, trying to enhance a stone of lower quality sold to someone who was taken advantage of, or a young couple on a very limited budget at the time, etc., as examples.

Thank you for sharing your opinion on this project. But I actually have very successfully recut a beautiful diamond into an (in my eyes) even more beautiful diamond. And along the way I even saved 50% on the retail price.
So yes one shouldn't rush intp a recut project, but for me it's fun actually and I'm well aware of the risks.

 

[xxxxxx]

I don’t think it’s stupid, no.

Did you enjoy the process last time?
Did the cutter you used last time give you the impression they’d willingly do a project like this again?
You already know the costs/risks involved (and have stated you are saving from buying from ready made)

The only thing I can think of is on your 4.5 OEC, is that I think you mentioned you weren’t sure you ended up with an ideal cut.
I think the same will apply to these stones. You won’t be sure you have a super ideal cut.

The process was an emotianal rollercoaster, but I had warned myself beforehand that it would get tough. In the end it was totally worth it as I got 99% of what I wanted. If I hadn't gone through the process I never would have even got 10% of what I dreamed of.
The performance on my stone is great. It is supposed to be cut to "ideal" oec standards, although people argue there isn't an "ideal" oec cut to beginn with. The 1% I didn't get was a bit more fire. But otherwise I'm very happy.

 

[xxxxxx]

@Karl_K Thank you very much for weighing in. Your advice is always so enlighting and helpful.

How would you compare these two diamonds in their potential to be recut into a super ideal?

Diamond A
?


Diamond B

 

[Karl_K]

both would be recut candidates based on those numbers. A would likely lose less weight but you can never tell for sure until the diamond is scanned and your looking at all the data.
If the inclusions will interfere is the next step.

 

[John Pollard]

@Karl_K Thank you very much for weighing in. Your advice is always so enlighting and helpful.

How would you compare these two diamonds in their potential to be recut into a super ideal?

Diamond A
?


Diamond B

When I was overseeing local recuts as a side hustle I used to drool when examples like that would arrive.

Of course, half the time they’d be something like 3.10 cts… “Aww shucks. Before you said 0.10 was enough room.” …Yeah that was for the 1 carat stones you asked about.