Diamond choice for studs ?

[mtnSparkleMama]

I’ve fallen down the PS rabbit hole and am hoping you folks can help me decide between some studs. I am looking for diamond studs on the smaller to medium size, in a rose gold setting.
I’ve got it narrowed down to 3, but now have some stone paralysis! I’m not finding much talk about the 3rd vendor so am a little nervous of them …
Thoughts ? Or would something else be better ?

https://www.brilliantearth.com/diamond-earrings/design-your-own/view_diamonds/11201623/11201655/?sid=5989912

Four-Prong Earrings in 14k Rose Gold | Blue Nile

These Classic Four-Prong Earrings in 14k Rose Gold are set with your choice of perfectly matched diamonds.

www.bluenile.com

https://verlas.com/products/blossom-studs?v=V5068711854219&color=rose-gold

 

[headlight]

I would pass on all.

 

[mtnSparkleMama]

I would pass on all.

Why is that ? I would like to learn more

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It's a good idea to buy from a vendor that carries ideal cut stones and that has an upgrade policy. I'd recommend whiteflash.com. That's where many of us have found our studs.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

I'd pass too. Sorry, I don't mean to disappoint you with that answer. I honestly wish someone had given me the advice years ago that the good people above are giving you.

Buy the best cut diamond you can and buy one at a place that has a good upgrade policy.

 

[mtnSparkleMama]

I'd pass too. Sorry, I don't mean to disappoint you with that answer. I honestly wish someone had given me the advice years ago that the good people above are giving you.

Buy the best cut diamond you can and buy one at a place that has a good upgrade policy.

I’m happy to keep looking if that means I get a better diamond in the end. I’m a little more confused though now at what I’m looking at.

The pairs of diamonds from blue Nile and brilliant earth are both rated as Excellent GIA cut grade, and both companies appear to have an upgrade policy.

What other aspects should I be paying attention to ? With multiple folks saying they would pass now, it definitely feels like I am overlooking something I am not aware of !

Thank you

 

[lulu_ma]

Hi, I think that other companies have more restrictive upgrade policies etc. At a vendor like Whiteflash, for instance, you can easily upgrade.

How about something like this diamonds? You can get super ideal cut J VS2 diamond with @ .60 ctw. Diamonds would be $495 each and settings $199. You’ll have super sparkly near colorless studs for $1200 and you can easily upgrade without having to spend x2 of your original cost.

Loose Cut Diamonds for Sale: Discover Exceptional Quality

Explore our GIA certified loose diamonds, including Hearts & Arrows (H&A) and super ideal cuts. Buy diamonds that offer brilliance, style, and fit your budget.

www.whiteflash.com

Four-Prong Diamond Basket Earrings--Ready Set To Go | 1353

Four-Prong Diamond Basket Earrings - Ready Set To Go. Earrings that hold your diamonds like a precious treasure. | 1353

www.whiteflash.com

 

[kenny]

GIA's "EXCELLENT" cut grade is too wide of a wide range to be IMO considered to be excellent.
It allows diamonds that are too deep to deliver optimum light performance.

Rather, I'd go for diamonds cut to qualify for the tighter cut range from AGS lab, or stick with a cut that is branded, such as Whiteflash ACA, Crafted by Infinity from High Performance Diamonds, or Brian Gavin Signature, or Black series.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

Yes, what @kenny said. GIA's "Excellent" cut grade covers a larger range than what many/most people on PriceScope consider to be excellent performers.

Since about 2010, GIA has given "Excellent" cut grades to a majority of the diamonds it evaluates.

At a presentation given by GIA that I recently watched, they showed the graph I'm posting below. In 2019 (the most recent year they had data for) they gave "Excellent" to 70% of diamonds they graded.

(I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this, if I am, we can take it down. The presentation was open to the public.)

 

[headlight]

Why is that ? I would like to learn more

I’m addition to the many reasons others have pointed out to you, I just flat out did not find the face-up look of the stones to be pleasing to me so I just started there.

 

[headlight]

Yes, what @kenny said. GIA's "Excellent" cut grade covers a larger range than what many/most people on PriceScope consider to be excellent performers.

Since about 2010, GIA has given "Excellent" cut grades to a majority of the diamonds it evaluates.

At a presentation given by GIA that I recently watched, they showed the graph I'm posting below. In 2019 (the most recent year they had data for) they gave "Excellent" to 70% of diamonds they graded.

(I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this, if I am, we can take it down. The presentation was open to the public.)

Hi! I hope you are well and your amazing bracelet project is coming along!

Do you know what it says on the chart’s title that is hiding behind the speaker’s photo? Thank you!

I am wondering if the speaker was trying to make the point that diamond cutting as a whole has been improved (which I think we can all make that general assumption given technology, more sophisticated/educated consumers, etc.).

Yet the chart shows the years from the time the GIA produced their cut grading system and so that would bring us to the on-going conversation we have here all the time with regard to manufacturers cutting specifically to make triple xxx (even if just squeaking by… and sometimes more recently in cases where they went past the qualifiers for xxx with 64% depth).

I can legitimately see that it is possible (if we try to have unbiased mindset about GIA cut grading) that this has had a positive impact in overall cut grading in terms of raising the bar as a whole and implementing a framework to separate diamonds by cut quality.

With that said, we all know where it goes from there. I don’t know how others feel about this, but if GIA split the xxx into 2 so the better ones out there could be in a different category, would people here feel better about the cut grading system? Would PSers feel, generally, that consumers weren’t perhaps being “misled” (for lack of a better word) in thinking they bought the best cut diamond available because it was graded xxx?

And regardless of numbers, I do think there is still the importance of listening to what one’s eyes tell them (as in my initial reaction to the 3 stones presented here). Of course, a big emphasis that sometimes I think needs to be said more often here is that new consumers need to look at a lot of diamonds… even from photos to be able to discern what is attractive to them and what isn’t. (Actually more from the online sites versus stores because the store lights make everything look great especially to newbie observers, and also you can see tons of images online while you can’t spend days and days in stores!). We all know that one can’t “know” until they’ve seen a lot of face-up optics. And that doesn’t mean it has to be a perfect H&A. But also with regard to elements like table size, crown height/profile, thick or thin arrows, etc. Even among super ideal to super ideal, there are flavors as we all know! So especially if you are paying the premium (totally worth it!) for a SI, for sure get that flavor that is most alluring to one’s eye… and one doesn’t know until they see many photos.

(Also, I am not sure it is to be posted even though from a presentation offered to the public as I believe all GIA intellectual property is trademarked and not reproducible without permission - at least everything I have from GIA states that.)

 

[RunningwithScissors]

Hey Headlight,

I don't remember what the title said behind the speaker's head. I'm going to guess it says "Breakdown." The slide was one in a series that showed the breakdown for shape, color, clarity, carat weight, and cut grade in the diamonds they inspected. (So for example, they showed what the most and least common shape they inspected are, the most common carat weight, etc.)

The fact that GIA is seeing diamond cutting getting better over the years is great! That's a win for consumers everywhere. But GIA wasn't claiming that they were responsible for that.

My point is that the public often confuses a GIA grading of "Excellent" to mean that the diamond is the best of the best, the cream of the crop. But with more than 70% of diamonds receiving that grade, "Excellent" can no longer indicate an elite status. Statistically, now, "Excellent" simply means average.

And its not just the public, I've heard a lot of brick and mortar jewelry store SAs push the myth that an "Excellent" on the GIA paperwork means the diamond is automatically the equivalent of a Mercedes instead of a Subaru. And that's just not the case. There are better performers and worse performers in that category. (For the record I own a Subaru and love it. But it is not a Mercedes.)

Since it seems diamond cutting has improved, it would be great if GIA were to update its grading system to reflect this advance and perhaps break down the Excellent grade further. There must be ways to sort that 70% into more categories.

I'm not anti GIA, but one thing I have noticed is that GIA seems to suffer from a significant culture lag. I noticed this in their online classes. Some of the things being taught, from IT/computer stuff to gender relations was literally 30 years out of date.

If more than 70% of diamonds coming into GIA are receiving their elite cut grade, then the standards for judging what constitutes Excellent should be re-evaluated.

 

[musicloveranthony]

If more than 70% of diamonds coming into GIA are receiving their elite cut grade, then the standards for judging what constitutes Excellent should be re-evaluated.

This resonates so much for me. Fully agree.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

And I totally agree about the importance of evaluating a diamond with your own eyes to determine if you are happy with not only its performance, but also its unique "flavor."

Even super ideal diamonds offered for sale by our beloved vendors can have different flavors from other diamonds from that same vendor.

For example, WF. I LOVE their diamonds, I own 9 ACAs (and counting!) But my eyes see some very very slight differences in flavor among their ACAs when viewed in person. I have been scolded (gently LOL) for saying that in the past, but it is true. ACAs are not clones (and we wouldn't want them to be!)

 

[headlight]

Hey Headlight,

I don't remember what the title said behind the speaker's head. I'm going to guess it says "Breakdown." The slide was one in a series that showed the breakdown for shape, color, clarity, carat weight, and cut grade in the diamonds they inspected. (So for example, they showed what the most and least common shape they inspected are, the most common carat weight, etc.)

The fact that GIA is seeing diamond cutting getting better over the years is great! That's a win for consumers everywhere. But GIA wasn't claiming that they were responsible for that.

My point is that the public often confuses a GIA grading of "Excellent" to mean that the diamond is the best of the best, the cream of the crop. But with more than 70% of diamonds receiving that grade, "Excellent" can no longer indicate an elite status. Statistically, now, "Excellent" simply means average.

And its not just the public, I've heard a lot of brick and mortar jewelry store SAs push the myth that an "Excellent" on the GIA paperwork means the diamond is automatically the equivalent of a Mercedes instead of a Subaru. And that's just not the case. There are better performers and worse performers in that category. (For the record I own a Subaru and love it. But it is not a Mercedes.)

Since it seems diamond cutting has improved, it would be great if GIA were to update its grading system to reflect this advance and perhaps break down the Excellent grade further. There must be ways to sort that 70% into more categories.

I'm not anti GIA, but one thing I have noticed is that GIA seems to suffer from a significant culture lag. I noticed this in their online classes. Some of the things being taught, from IT/computer stuff to gender relations was literally 30 years out of date.

If more than 70% of diamonds coming into GIA are receiving their elite cut grade, then the standards for judging what constitutes Excellent should be re-evaluated.

Agree on all points!!!!!

 

[mtnSparkleMama]

Thank you all for the advice - I have learned a lot !
I have been chatting with an associate at WF and they can do their martini settings in RG! So I will be working with them and trying to use some of the information from here and their expertise for a diamond pair selection. Thanks again !

 

[kenny]

... If more than 70% of diamonds coming into GIA are receiving their elite cut grade, then the standards for judging what constitutes Excellent should be re-evaluated.

It depends.

If GIA's priority is to best support consumers, then yes.
But if GIA's priority to maximize profits from the companies who send them not-Excellent Cut diamonds to get an Excellent grade, then no.

Hmmm ... Which could it be?

 

[Dancing Fire]

For example, WF. I LOVE their diamonds, I own 9 ACAs (and counting!) But my eyes see some very very slight differences in flavor among their ACAs when viewed in person. I have been scolded (gently LOL) for saying that in the past, but it is true. ACAs are not clones (and we wouldn't want them to be!)

So true, I can't say about ACA since the biggest one I have seen is a .85ct , but I have had seen 7 CBIs ranging for 1.07 - 2.62ct and I'd agree that they all have a slight differences in flavor.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thank you all for the advice - I have learned a lot !
I have been chatting with an associate at WF and they can do their martini settings in RG! So I will be working with them and trying to use some of the information from here and their expertise for a diamond pair selection. Thanks again !

So happy to hear this! I made one mistake on my first studs, took the loss, and have had several pairs of ACAs since then! Best jewelry decision I could have made! Please come back and show us yours!

@RunningwithScissors Agreed on all points! I think the larger the stones, the easier to see the nuances in cut, but there definitely are differences in ideal cuts! The GIA cut grade is so deceiving and the average person has no clue that excellent may not truly mean excellent!

 

[distracts]

Yes, what @kenny said. GIA's "Excellent" cut grade covers a larger range than what many/most people on PriceScope consider to be excellent performers.

Since about 2010, GIA has given "Excellent" cut grades to a majority of the diamonds it evaluates.

At a presentation given by GIA that I recently watched, they showed the graph I'm posting below. In 2019 (the most recent year they had data for) they gave "Excellent" to 70% of diamonds they graded.

(I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this, if I am, we can take it down. The presentation was open to the public.)

This is legitimately shocking. I think the last time I had heard an actual number, it was that around 40% of GIA-graded RBs were excellent cut. They need to rebalance the grading system and tighten the standards.

 

[Wink]

I can legitimately see that it is possible (if we try to have unbiased mindset about GIA cut grading) that this has had a positive impact in overall cut grading in terms of raising the bar as a whole and implementing a framework to separate diamonds by cut quality.

I like your thought process and I wish I could agree with you. I and many others in the trade have noticed that one of the more deleterious side effects of the GIA cut grade system is that more and more diamonds are being cut to the Steep and Deep edge of the grading system so the diamonds weigh more than they would if cut to what some of us consider to be "proper proportions."

Stones that might be cut to weigh 2.70 cts in a magnificent "super ideal" cut can be cut to weigh 3.00 or 3.01 cts and still get a GIA Excellent cut grade. In an actual example a 3.01 ct D-IF grade the difference in price between the 2.72 ct potential cut and the actual cut as sold by a well known vendor was more than $120,000.

Even in smaller sizes the price difference between the gain of even a point or two to a cutter cutting thousands of diamonds per month adds up. The extra money for using the steep deep formulation allowed by GIA is millions of dollars a year in extra income.

It is unfortunate that GIA is not stricter in their Excellent Grade requirements, but this is why those of us selling the "super Ideal" cut are all using AGS diamond grading reports because the AGS ideal cut grade requires adherence to a much smaller target.

Wink