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Diamond Recommendation For Engagement Ring

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YT233

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
17
Hi All,

Firstly, I would like to say this forum is a absolute treasure trove of information. Especially for a novice like myself.

I am looking to buy a diamond engagement ring and would really appreciate your help. I have been reading this forum and other sites and have learnt a bit about diamonds, but after coming on this forum and reading about pavilion and crown angles, I am now scared to purchase one!

I have spoken to my fiancée wants a simple solitaire ring, 18k white gold with a thin band.

my budget is roughly £2,500

diamond shape - princess

I have been looking at VS2 diamonds, with a weight of 0.7 to 0.75c and color grades of F,E and D.

The 2 websites I have used are James Allen and 77diamonds.

Thank you all!
 
We don’t recommend going below 2mm in width for a band, because it’s just not safe or durable. I’ll look at some places for you.
 
whitewave said:
Martin is in Canada, so you would have to contact him. Because he tends to have rock bottom prices, he doesn’t publish images, etc.



0.78-Carat Princess Cut Diamond | Blue Nile

www.bluenile.com www.bluenile.com

0.71-Carat Princess Cut Diamond | Blue Nile

www.bluenile.com www.bluenile.com
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply whitewave.

When buy a princess cut diamond, if I want it to really sparkle what should I be looking for.
 
YT233 said:
Thank you for your reply whitewave.

When buy a princess cut diamond, if I want it to really sparkle what should I be looking for.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I’m not really sure but less depth is better. Try to stay in the 65-low 70% for depth and under 75% for table.

princesses have fallen out of favor. The good news about that is they tend to be one of the least expensive cuts.

Also, is she aware (has she tried them on?) that square stones face up much smaller than rounds and other shapes?

look at this size comparison with my 1.52 asscher and my 1.09 round.
829467
 
whitewave said:
To be honest, I’m not really sure but less depth is better. Try to stay in the 65-low 70% for depth and under 75% for table.

princesses have fallen out of favor. The good news about that is they tend to be one of the least expensive cuts.

Also, is she aware (has she tried them on?) that square stones face up much smaller than rounds and other shapes?

look at this size comparison with my 1.52 asscher and my 1.09 round.
BBC04EDC-BA3D-47DD-9CC2-4793369DE9D7.jpeg
Click to expand...

wow beautiful rings and such a big difference. In terms of color if you were to put a D, E, F next to each other could a normal person tell the difference?
 
YT233 said:
wow beautiful rings and such a big difference. In terms of color if you were to put a D, E, F next to each other could a normal person tell the difference?
Click to expand...

Depends on the person. But generally speaking, most people don't see a big difference between D-F unless they are specificaslly looking for a difference.
 
My studs are F color and I would call them icy white

also, one of these sides stones is an E and one is an F. I can’t tell which is which
62AE8B80-F30A-4DB3-863F-DFCB99E66AB1.jpeg
 
This is just my experience...

I had a 0.70 ct princess cut for 12 years. While I love my ring, I recently went on a search to replace the center because it didn't have the light performance I now want, as someone with more exposure to diamonds. You can see my thread here: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...cut-diamond-to-better-cut-with-photos.265696/

I think princess cuts are very tricky, if you want brilliance, you have to prioritize cut over everything else (I think generally that's understood, but I think the colour is less important in this case). Princess cuts can look very watery/crushed ice vs. sparkly and fiery which I personally prefer in diamonds now.

My stone was a G VS2, and it rarely showed any tint. Only noticeable when it was dirty (but that's probably the dirt interfering with the colour). IMO, it's not worth it to pay more for a D/E stone and F/G would be good enough.

My recommendation, is to look for a stone that has an ASET image to check out light performance. Fewer facets in a stone that size is likely going to perform better, as you can see the discussion in the thread I posted.

Here is a slightly larger 0.90 ct F SI1 that I was considering, before my local jeweller offered me a Hearts on Fire diamond that would fit in my setting: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.90-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-10543437

In my thread above, I posted the ASET for it - it has a pleasing pattern and ideal symmetry.

My search criteria on James Allen was this: G+ colour, SI1+ clarity, ideal+ cut, excellent symmetry and polish, AGS lab certified (as they have the ASET on their reports)
 
OECfan said:
I think princess cuts are very tricky, if you want brilliance, you have to prioritize cut over everything else (I think generally that's understood, but I think the colour is less important in this case). Princess cuts can look very watery/crushed ice vs. sparkly and fiery which I personally prefer in diamonds now.
Click to expand...

This is a preference among buyers. I agree with you that I prefer the look of the chunkier facets and with all other things being equal they will make bigger fire.

Narrowing to 2 chevron princesses will help maintain that preference. Below are examples of 2, 3 & 4 chevrons with actual photos and also the diagram of what it looks like on the cert. I marked one up to show how they count them.

FC7221B6-654F-4F53-B37D-EF2C2CC84C87.jpeg

A34D76E2-8209-48D9-B4C3-80D7F1BDB114.jpeg

8D46AB30-CDF9-4149-BFB7-3D0392FCC1A4.jpeg
 
Another thought. If this isn’t a surprise and your girl can still share input, have you considered cheating a bit?

All the sparkle of a round with some extra halo coverage for a cushion or princess look?

D6BE7054-E854-47BE-BC93-44FAFF66D526.jpeg
 
sledge said:
This is a preference among buyers. I agree with you that I prefer the look of the chunkier facets and with all other things being equal they will make bigger fire.

Narrowing to 2 chevron princesses will help maintain that preference. Below are examples of 2, 3 & 4 chevrons with actual photos and also the diagram of what it looks like on the cert. I marked one up to show how they count them.

FC7221B6-654F-4F53-B37D-EF2C2CC84C87.jpeg

A34D76E2-8209-48D9-B4C3-80D7F1BDB114.jpeg

8D46AB30-CDF9-4149-BFB7-3D0392FCC1A4.jpeg
Click to expand...

Yep, totally agree it's a matter of preference. Same with radiants, cushions and ovals.... lots of people seem to like the crushed ice look too. I liked the crushed ice look back then, but not anymore. Based on the number of crushed ice princess cuts available locally, I assume that's the preference where I live.

I wish I were just knowledgeable enough back then to know the difference.
 
In a diamond the size you are looking for go for the least number of chevrons (as Sledge says) and you may still like the diamond when you get older and can not see as well.
I have only ever sold princess cut diamonds to young people or very short sighted people.
 
Hi all thank you for all the replies and info.

I have spoken to my fiancée and she has her heart set on a princess, I could get her a round cut which she would except but i know deep down she wants a solitaire setting with a princess cut diamond.

I live in the UK therefore I am limited in where I can go. These diffeeent reports you mention are they lab spacific?

so the colour I would better going for a lower grade colour and concentrate on the cut. All the sites don’t provide info they just say ideal excellent etc. What about clarity?
 
 
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My opinion might be different than others, but unless you have future upgrade in mind, I would rather get the diamond from other sellers if it’s not their ACA line. Because I don’t want to pay for the premium if I can get similar diamond with cheaper price.
 
Yes go for lower color G/H and as they say Cut is king. make sure the cut is perfect so it sparkles...
 
munchee said:
My opinion might be different than others, but unless you have future upgrade in mind, I would rather get the diamond from other sellers if it’s not their ACA line. Because I don’t want to pay for the premium if I can get similar diamond with cheaper price
Click to expand...

what do you mean by ACA line? so its not worth spending that much on a princess cut? I can always get her more jewelry in the future, but for us both the ring will have sentimental value, therefore will never be sold or changed.
 
YT233 said:
on white flash these are the 4 stones that have come back

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare/?idnos=4210283,4159040,4324156,4384031

On bluenile i have looked at this one

https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD14048350?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails

https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD15050204?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails

https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD12457100?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails

https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD12629865?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails

77 diamonds

https://www.77diamonds.com/certification_PRIZBDJRJKX5.html

F_Princess.jpg
Click to expand...

also if i have understood correctly the few chevrons the more sparkle and fire? with the cut being "excellent". Clarity has little affect along as the imperfection is not on the face. With color being the most flexible?
 
YT233 said:
what do you mean by ACA line? so its not worth spending that much on a princess cut? I can always get her more jewelry in the future, but for us both the ring will have sentimental value, therefore will never be sold or changed.
Click to expand...

ACA : A Cut Above, its not about the shape, its their Signature line. If you open your link, it’ll state if its ACA or Expert selection or Premium Selection or Virtual selection.
 
munchee said:
ACA : A Cut Above, its not about the shape, its their Signature line. If you open your link, it’ll state if its ACA or Expert selection or Premium Selection or Virtual selection.
Click to expand...

ahh right ok out of the 4, 3 are aca and 1 is expert
 
 
YT233 said:
also if i have understood correctly the few chevrons the more sparkle and fire? with the cut being "excellent". Clarity has little affect along as the imperfection is not on the face. With color being the most flexible?
Click to expand...

Correct. Less chevrons = bigger facets, which equate to bigger fire. It not only changes the behavior of the stone, but as I noted in my other post, it changes the way the stone looks as well.

The stone from 77 Diamonds is a 4 chevron and because of my preferences I would eliminate that one.

F_Princess.jpg


Some typical characteristics of AGS0 princess cuts:
  • 69-71 table
  • 74-75 depth
  • moderately high 10.5-14 crown height
  • table % equal to or less than depth
If you look at the WF princess cuts, you will see they all fall in-line with those typical characteristics.

Problem is GIA certs don't provide crown height, so you have to estimate that for yourself from pics & video. See the difference?

Screen Shot 2021-04-25 at 9.59.26 PM.png

Based on the above, I'd eliminate all but maybe the last BN stone. And I'd personally eliminate the last one too because I don't care for the crushed ice look, nor the personality of that style even with the table & depth sitting somewhat close and the crown looking like it's within range according to the video.

Not to mention, the Astor Ideal line is IMO a misleading brand name. They are not ideal cut stones that receive AGS0 accreditation. They simply come with a GEMEX report and GIA certification. IMO, you are over paying for a hyped up name.

Instead I'd spend my money on a JA True Hearts or WF ACA or ES (expert select) so I got AGS0 cert and at least the ray-traced (computer generated) ASET that prints on the AGS reports. In the case of WF, you also get actual IS and ASET images in addition to the one on the cert.


YT233 said:
what do you mean by ACA line? so its not worth spending that much on a princess cut? I can always get her more jewelry in the future, but for us both the ring will have sentimental value, therefore will never be sold or changed.
Click to expand...
munchee said:
ACA : A Cut Above, its not about the shape, its their Signature line. If you open your link, it’ll state if its ACA or Expert selection or Premium Selection or Virtual selection.
Click to expand...


As @munchee noted, WF has a few different product lines:
  • ACA = A Cut Above, their signature top of the line cut with AGS000 certification
  • ES = Expert Select, basically "near miss" ACA's. Still has AGS000 certification. Reason for miss varies stone to stone & you have to evaluate individually. Normally they offer a really well cut stone for a slightly reduced price.
  • PS = Premium Select. Kind of a pool that can include top tier cut ACA stones or near miss ES stones, but the primary difference being they come with GIA XXX certs as opposed to AGS000 certs. Generally priced a little cheaper than ACA's.
All 3 of these lines come with a lifetime trade policy that is very generous. Spend an amount equal to or greater than the original stone and trade as you wish, as many times as you want. Truly, one of the best upgrade programs out there as there aren't any strings attached. More importantly it can be used to "hedge". So if you buy a lower color now but decide later you need a better color, but are okay with size then you can easily do that w/o spending a bundle to replace the stone. Or if you do decide to upgrade size later (believe it or not, the sentimental "I will never upgrade" does go away, usually much quicker than people expect) then you have that option as well.

The 4th "line" that WF offers is:
  • Virtual Selection = Nothing overly special here. These are stones available in what is called the "virtual" market and accessible to not only WF but multiple vendors include JA, BN and others. The only advantage to buying them through WF is that once the stones are brought in, WF can provide full imaging on the stone whereas the other vendors typically don't offer that. However, WF isn't always as competitive on virtual stones as other vendors and I believe a portion of that reason is they do additional stuff like the imaging I mentioned that others don't. Also, there virtual stones ARE NOT part of the generous upgrade program. Only the ACA, ES & PS lines are eligible for the upgrades program.
In my opinion, the ACA, ES & PS lines offer tremendous value. Sometimes they aren't as cheap as virtual stones but the reality is they are cut much more precisely, have maximum light performance and have a killer trade program. Because they offer such quality stones that really don't require much thought or research on the buyer's part I often call them an "easy button" solution that helps the buyer ensure they get an awesome high performing stone.

Every person's opinion may vary, but I don't always see lowest dollar as the best value. Obviously you have to evaluate that for yourself.

One thing I would caution. On your comparison list of WF stones, I am concerned with the 0.99 H-SI1. It has a big feather on the table, and in the WF description under eye clean it says "inquire" which typically means it's NOT eye clean. Tables on princess cuts are big and I would not want to see imperfections with the naked eye there if I were a buyer so you may want to have a conversation with them and possibly eliminate that stone from your list of candidates.
 
sledge said:
Correct. Less chevrons = bigger facets, which equate to bigger fire. It not only changes the behavior of the stone, but as I noted in my other post, it changes the way the stone looks as well.

The stone from 77 Diamonds is a 4 chevron and because of my preferences I would eliminate that one.

F_Princess.jpg


Some typical characteristics of AGS0 princess cuts:
  • 69-71 table
  • 74-75 depth
  • moderately high 10.5-14 crown height
  • table % equal to or less than depth
If you look at the WF princess cuts, you will see they all fall in-line with those typical characteristics.

Problem is GIA certs don't provide crown height, so you have to estimate that for yourself from pics & video. See the difference?

Screen Shot 2021-04-25 at 9.59.26 PM.png

Based on the above, I'd eliminate all but maybe the last BN stone. And I'd personally eliminate the last one too because I don't care for the crushed ice look, nor the personality of that style even with the table & depth sitting somewhat close and the crown looking like it's within range according to the video.

Not to mention, the Astor Ideal line is IMO a misleading brand name. They are not ideal cut stones that receive AGS0 accreditation. They simply come with a GEMEX report and GIA certification. IMO, you are over paying for a hyped up name.

Instead I'd spend my money on a JA True Hearts or WF ACA or ES (expert select) so I got AGS0 cert and at least the ray-traced (computer generated) ASET that prints on the AGS reports. In the case of WF, you also get actual IS and ASET images in addition to the one on the cert.






As @munchee noted, WF has a few different product lines:
  • ACA = A Cut Above, their signature top of the line cut with AGS000 certification
  • ES = Expert Select, basically "near miss" ACA's. Still has AGS000 certification. Reason for miss varies stone to stone & you have to evaluate individually. Normally they offer a really well cut stone for a slightly reduced price.
  • PS = Premium Select. Kind of a pool that can include top tier cut ACA stones or near miss ES stones, but the primary difference being they come with GIA XXX certs as opposed to AGS000 certs. Generally priced a little cheaper than ACA's.
All 3 of these lines come with a lifetime trade policy that is very generous. Spend an amount equal to or greater than the original stone and trade as you wish, as many times as you want. Truly, one of the best upgrade programs out there as there aren't any strings attached. More importantly it can be used to "hedge". So if you buy a lower color now but decide later you need a better color, but are okay with size then you can easily do that w/o spending a bundle to replace the stone. Or if you do decide to upgrade size later (believe it or not, the sentimental "I will never upgrade" does go away, usually much quicker than people expect) then you have that option as well.

The 4th "line" that WF offers is:
  • Virtual Selection = Nothing overly special here. These are stones available in what is called the "virtual" market and accessible to not only WF but multiple vendors include JA, BN and others. The only advantage to buying them through WF is that once the stones are brought in, WF can provide full imaging on the stone whereas the other vendors typically don't offer that. However, WF isn't always as competitive on virtual stones as other vendors and I believe a portion of that reason is they do additional stuff like the imaging I mentioned that others don't. Also, there virtual stones ARE NOT part of the generous upgrade program. Only the ACA, ES & PS lines are eligible for the upgrades program.
In my opinion, the ACA, ES & PS lines offer tremendous value. Sometimes they aren't as cheap as virtual stones but the reality is they are cut much more precisely, have maximum light performance and have a killer trade program. Because they offer such quality stones that really don't require much thought or research on the buyer's part I often call them an "easy button" solution that helps the buyer ensure they get an awesome high performing stone.

Every person's opinion may vary, but I don't always see lowest dollar as the best value. Obviously you have to evaluate that for yourself.

One thing I would caution. On your comparison list of WF stones, I am concerned with the 0.99 H-SI1. It has a big feather on the table, and in the WF description under eye clean it says "inquire" which typically means it's NOT eye clean. Tables on princess cuts are big and I would not want to see imperfections with the naked eye there if I were a buyer so you may want to have a conversation with them and possibly eliminate that stone from your list of candidates.
Click to expand...

Sledge you hero a absolute star, soo much to learn and digest. I cant thank you enough, what did you think of this JA stone?

1619408782608.png
 
YT233 said:
Sledge you hero a absolute star, soo much to learn and digest. I cant thank you enough, what did you think of this JA stone?

1619408782608.png
Click to expand...

Glad to help.

I assume this is the stone in question: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.91-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-4389040

Video looks nice and ray-traced ASET on the cert checks out. Depth is a hair outside the general guidelines, but it clearly works as evidenced. Looking at the dimensions I see it's a perfect 1:1 square ratio, 5.24 x 5.24mm.

However, if that is indeed the stone, it falls right in-line (price-wise) with the WF stones and you get not only the ray-traced ASET on the cert, but actual ASET and ideal scope images with WF. Plus SARIN reports. Customer service is hands down better. And you get a superior trade program to the JA trade-in program.

I do like the VS1 clarity, but really have no problems with SI1 or VS2 as long as they are eye clean and the 0.957, 1.03 and 1.012 are all reported as eye clean.

So for the same money, I would prefer to have one of the WF stones.

Also, with WF, they can pull those 3 stones and do side by side videos & photos to help you better understand any other nuances between the 3. For instance, color is graded by humans and there can be a RANGE meaning one of the stones may be closer to an H, or maybe a J or maybe all 3 are just straight in the middle average I colored stones.

For me personally, the I stone on JA is too tinted for my own preferences, but color is very subjective. I lean towards icy white which some feel is off-putting. So if I was shopping I would appreciate seeing how the 3 WF stones look in a side by side comparison where I could better evaluate the tint. And then maybe even throw those up and see how that looks in comparison to the JA stone.

A final note, while the JA is a perfect 1:1 ratio on dimensions, it appears all 3 of those WF stones are roughly 1:1.02. The variance is very minimal and you likely would not see anything but "square" with the naked eye.
 
sledge said:
Glad to help.

I assume this is the stone in question: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.91-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-4389040

Video looks nice and ray-traced ASET on the cert checks out. Depth is a hair outside the general guidelines, but it clearly works as evidenced. Looking at the dimensions I see it's a perfect 1:1 square ratio, 5.24 x 5.24mm.

However, if that is indeed the stone, it falls right in-line (price-wise) with the WF stones and you get not only the ray-traced ASET on the cert, but actual ASET and ideal scope images with WF. Plus SARIN reports. Customer service is hands down better. And you get a superior trade program to the JA trade-in program.

I do like the VS1 clarity, but really have no problems with SI1 or VS2 as long as they are eye clean and the 0.957, 1.03 and 1.012 are all reported as eye clean.

So for the same money, I would prefer to have one of the WF stones.

Also, with WF, they can pull those 3 stones and do side by side videos & photos to help you better understand any other nuances between the 3. For instance, color is graded by humans and there can be a RANGE meaning one of the stones may be closer to an H, or maybe a J or maybe all 3 are just straight in the middle average I colored stones.

For me personally, the I stone on JA is too tinted for my own preferences, but color is very subjective. I lean towards icy white which some feel is off-putting. So if I was shopping I would appreciate seeing how the 3 WF stones look in a side by side comparison where I could better evaluate the tint. And then maybe even throw those up and see how that looks in comparison to the JA stone.

A final note, while the JA is a perfect 1:1 ratio on dimensions, it appears all 3 of those WF stones are roughly 1:1.02. The variance is very minimal and you likely would not see anything but "square" with the naked eye.
Click to expand...

understood, i will make a request with WF for side by side comparisons.

so now we have a potential 2 vendors JA and WF most likely WF.

when it comes to setting she wants a solitaire ring with just the stone on its own with 4 prongs, is there anything I need to pay particular attention to design wise to further accentuate the stone?

Also I am looking to just import the stone to the UK, otherwise I will have to pay a duty of 4.00% on top of the 20% VAT. Can anyone recommend any jewelers to set the ring for me in the UK?
 
Last edited:
YT233 said:
when it comes to setting she wants a solitaire ring with just the stone on its own with 4 prongs, is there anything I need to pay particular attention to design wise to further accentuate the stone?

Also I am looking to just import the stone to the UK, otherwise I will have to pay a duty of 4.00% on top of the 20% VAT. Can anyone recommend any jewelers to set the ring for me in the UK?
Click to expand...

Not sure your budget on the solitaire. Here is one that is rather affordable.

Whatever you get, make sure it covers the corners of the princess very well. Those sharp corners are known for getting chipped.

Ritani 1RZ7241 Solitaire Engagement Ring - Whitef... | 3991

Unveil pure sophistication with Ritani 1RZ7241 Solitaire Engagement Ring. Celebrate your love story with this timeless piece at Whiteflash. | 3991
www.whiteflash.com

If you have a few more dollars to spend, check out some of the Vatche settings. I personally think their X-prong with princess looks very nice. But it's a fatter band @ 3.8mm. A more skinny X-prong would seem more inline. Not sure if WF can ask Vatche to customize it for a 2.50 to maybe 2.75mm width.

But with Vatche, you are probably talking $1,000+ for a solitaire, although I really like the way they make their heads flow from the ring.

X-Prong Diamond Solitaire for Princess | 835

Elevate your proposal with a stunning X-prong diamond solitaire for your princess. Shop now for the perfect engagement ring. | 835
www.whiteflash.com
 
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