Did you wait until it was official?

[zoebartlett]

I posted this topic (different title though) in LIW and I thought I''d post it here too. Did you wait until you were officially engaged to begin booking places to have your wedding and reception (or other things)? My boyfriend wants to wait until the perfect time to propose (the ring is somewhere at home) but I have no idea when that will be. I don''t think he''d think to throw me off track -- I honestly think he may wait until the summer to propose. I''m not sure why I think that.

My boyfriend thinks it perfectly okay to book things, esp. the place, before we''re engaged. I disagree and I know my parents won''t like the idea either. If we wait to book, we may not get the place. If we book now, we won''t be engaged yet and I don''t feel that''s right. It''s a LOT of money to put down before the formalities are done.

I have told my boyfriend that it takes a long time to plan a wedding, so if we''re thinking about getting married next spring or summer, well, the clock is ticking, at least in my mind. Of course I don''t want to pressure him into proposing but this is beginning to drive me crazy.

Any ideas on what, if anything I should do? Patience is a virtue, right?

 

[poptart]

Why don''t you feel right planning the wedding before you get engaged? If he has the ring, and you both know it''s coming, what about it makes you feel weird? It wouldn''t bother me at all. DH and I started planning before we officially got engaged and had lots of stuff decided on before hand. Honestly, if you are afraid of not getting the date you want from the venue, I would be booking NOW. Lol!

*M*

PS Sorry if any of this sounds disjointed or anything... not feeling too well today, so if everything is a little jumbled, sorry!

 

[zoebartlett]

Thanks poptart!

It''s not so much planning as booking things that is bothering me for some reason. We''ve looked at invitations, worked on the guest list, and visted places both in the White Mountains and on the coast of Maine. I always said I''d never buy a house with someone unless we were either engaged or married. It just seemed too risky. Then, what did I end up doing? Buying a condo with my boyfriend last year. Okay so that theory didn''t hold.

Maybe I feel the same way about this that I did about buying property. It just seems risky. I can''t explain it more than that. As you pointed out, I know he has the ring and I know we''ll be married. Maybe I''m thinking about this too much.

 

[sumbride]

Well, do you know about when it''s going to happen? If you do, then go for it. With us, I didn''t really know when he was going to propose, just a window, and he knew I wanted a year to plan, so I actually ended up picking a fall date when I''d always wanted to get married in the spring... I just didn''t want to wait until the next year.

 

[poptart]

Date: 5/3/2007 9:04:17 PM
Author: zoebartlett
Thanks poptart!


It''s not so much planning as booking things that is bothering me for some reason. We''ve looked at invitations, worked on the guest list, and visted places both in the White Mountains and on the coast of Maine. I always said I''d never buy a house with someone unless we were either engaged or married. It just seemed too risky. Then, what did I end up doing? Buying a condo with my boyfriend last year. Okay so that theory didn''t hold.

Maybe I feel the same way about this that I did about buying property. It just seems risky. I can''t explain it more than that. As you pointed out, I know he has the ring and I know we''ll be married. Maybe I''m thinking about this too much.

I personally think you are over thinking it and worrying where you don''t need to, especially if he is really gung ho about booking. But if you feel uncomfortable with it, then you shouldn''t do it. Perhaps with summer coming up here soon, you will feel better about it in a few weeks? I know what you mean about feeling uncomfortable in certain aspects without things being official, although I didn''t experience that with my wedding/engagement, just with other things. Just wait till you feel comfortable, but don''t worry yourself too much about it, because things already seem to be almost 100% official, since the only thing missing is the actual question from your BF.

*M*

 

[musey]

Someone posted on here once about having booked the reception site (without her boyfriend's knowledge), the date was nearing, and still no proposal. She got within about two months of the wedding (sans proposal, and obviously without having sent out invitations...) and only THEN decided to forsake her deposit and cancel the "wedding."

Is that the kind of thing that's holding you back?

Obviously, there's no danger of this happening to you

If your soon-to-be-fiancé is okay with it, then I don't think you have much (if anything) to worry about. Just make sure you're engaged with enough time to send out the invites

 

[zoebartlett]

No Sum, I have no idea when we''ll get engaged. Could be tomorrow, could be Christmas. Really, no clue. I just reminded my boyfriend that it takes a year to plan (well, not for everyone, but I want that much time). He just said "okay" and then asked if I wanted to watch a movie. Ughh! I hate sounding so impatient over this. Maybe we should just book something. We still need to decide which one of the four places we''ve narrowed it down to we want to go with. I''m kind of afraid of telling my parents we may book it before we''re engaged. We''re both in our 30s (33 -- me, 35 -- him) so it''s not as if we''ll be in trouble or anything. But my parents are kind of funny about doing things the proper way.

Sorry if I''m rambling. I''m tired and should go to bed soon. How sad, it''s only 9:15!

 

[zoebartlett]

You''re right poptart. I''m really overanalyzing it. After all, it is only a question that''s missing, not the intent. Thanks for the advice!

 

[cara]

I think the part that bothers me is that the engaged/not-engaged thing it is just stupid. If you two have agreed to get married, you are "engaged". Its not like you are basing your decision of whether or not you want to be married to one another on whether or not you find the perfect venue for the wedding:

"Oh! This country club is so perfect honey!"

"OK, looking at that view I guess I can really see myself settling down and making you my wife. I mean, I was having doubts about it but now that I can really see where the wedding would take place I can see spending the rest of my life with you."

This was what really bothered me about the whole "getting engaged" LIW business. Its a charade. Especially for longtime dating couples that have jointly decided or acknowledged in some capacity that they would like to get married, they now have to wait... Wait for someone to pick out a ring, someone to buy a ring, someone to hide the ring and plan a wonderful, *suprising* beautiful romantic proposal that they both know is coming. Unless the guy has done such a good job of beating down expectations that the girl is already partly demoralized by the sheer impossibility of the guy wanting to marry her anytime soon.

That said, I wasn't able to rise above the stereotypical expectations very well at all. Should have "proposed" myself - but what I really object to is the whole elaborate planning of the asking - why can't you just have a long conversation about it and come to a conclusion similar to other major life decisions?

Anyway, one thing that helped was having a detailed discussion with my then-BF about my timing preferences and WHY. This was spring of 06. We had already discussed enough of the details to know that he wanted a summer wedding. Summer 06 was too close. So I wanted a proposal soon so that we could properly plan for summer 07 - since we clearly knew we were getting married, why should we not start planning it soon! It would be really stupid for us to agree to get married and then sit on our thumbs until November for the official proposal and then have few choices and little time for wedding planning. We also needed to be formally engaged so that we could talk to the rents about their preferences and $ contributions. Turns out dear BF had a hazy summer of 08 or 09 idea in his head, so wanted to take his sweet time with the official "proposal" but did agree that waiting another 2-3+ years to get married was a little much when pressed. This did manage to produce an appropriate song and dance with sparkly ring in May of 06. Then we did a lot of venue shopping.

Plus I think the venue shopping will go a lot better if you have some clue as to budget, time of year, and can say yes we are engaged and this is what we are/are not looking for in a wedding venue...

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 5/3/2007 9:25:59 PM
Author: cara
I think the part that bothers me is that the engaged/not-engaged thing it is just stupid. If you two have agreed to get married, you are ''engaged''. Its not like you are basing your decision of whether or not you want to be married to one another on whether or not you find the perfect venue for the wedding:

''Oh! This country club is so perfect honey!''

''OK, looking at that view I guess I can really see myself settling down and making you my wife. I mean, I was having doubts about it but now that I can really see where the wedding would take place I can see spending the rest of my life with you.''

This was what really bothered me about the whole ''getting engaged'' LIW business. Its a charade. Especially for longtime dating couples that have jointly decided or acknowledged in some capacity that they would like to get married, they now have to wait... Wait for someone to pick out a ring, someone to buy a ring, someone to hide the ring and plan a wonderful, *suprising* beautiful romantic proposal that they both know is coming. Unless the guy has done such a good job of beating down expectations that the girl is already partly demoralized by the sheer impossibility of the guy wanting to marry her anytime soon.

That said, I wasn''t able to rise above the stereotypical expectations very well at all. Should have ''proposed'' myself - but what I really object to is the whole elaborate planning of the asking - why can''t you just have a long conversation about it and come to a conclusion similar to other major life decisions?

Anyway, one thing that helped was having a detailed discussion with my then-BF about my timing preferences and WHY. This was spring of 06. We had already discussed enough of the details to know that he wanted a summer wedding. Summer 06 was too close. So I wanted a proposal soon so that we could properly plan for summer 07 - since we clearly knew we were getting married, why should we not start planning it soon! It would be really stupid for us to agree to get married and then sit on our thumbs until November for the official proposal and then have few choices and little time for wedding planning. We also needed to be formally engaged so that we could talk to the rents about their preferences and $ contributions. Turns out dear BF had a hazy summer of 08 or 09 idea in his head, so wanted to take his sweet time with the official ''proposal'' but did agree that waiting another 2-3+ years to get married was a little much when pressed. This did manage to produce an appropriate song and dance with sparkly ring in May of 06. Then we did a lot of venue shopping.

Plus I think the venue shopping will go a lot better if you have some clue as to budget, time of year, and can say yes we are engaged and this is what we are/are not looking for in a wedding venue...

I agree with the highlighted parts specifically. We know we''d like either an April or July wedding and it will either be in the White Mountains or on the coast of Maine. We have done some preliminary planning -- things like working on the guest list and narrowing down our invitation choices. We have a basic idea of what our budget is and we do know that both sets of parents will be helping out in some way.

I do realize now that I''m probably just overreacting and overanalyzing.

 

[cara]

I don't think you are overanalyzing or anything. I do think your situation is stupid (w/c?) but I don't know the proper way out of it. Do you really think that your BF is still deciding whether he wants to marry you? Or is he caught up in logistics - I have to get a ring, pay for it, come up with some fabulous proposal. Meanwhile, you are "patiently" getting frustrated and resentful. Or trying not to.

Patience is a virtue, but so is communicating your feelings and expectations with your SO.

 

[peridot83]

Well take this with a grain of salt since I am not in the about to be engaged boat...

I think every couple is different and in the end it''s what you are comfortable doing. I don''t think it''s silly that you feel strange booking a reception site etc. without a proposal. Some people put immense importance on ceremony, and if you are someone who does then the proposal isn''t just a "formality." I feel it''s the same with marriage in general. For some, the only reason they are making their union formal is because of the tax and other benefits that come from being married, otherwise they would see no importance in some "piece of paper." For others it''s essential to have that piece of paper before they buy a home, have kids etc.

Just make sure that you are genuinely uncomfortable, and also think about what step in the process you feel you need the ring by. That''s what would give me anxiety about the whole thing. Because even though I wouldn''t care that we booked the banquet hall or the videographer, I sure don''t want to be sending out save the date cards and not have had a proposal! By starting to book things, at least for myself, all of a sudden there''s this timeline..which I feel would also put pressure on my SO. For example, are you fine ordering a wedding dress without a proposal? Sending out save the date cards without a proposal? Putting together your wedding party? Figure out what that point is, and tell your SO just so he has an idea that if y''all are going to book things now, that he''s just put himself on a timeline to have to propose by X time. (Your X time may be the bridal shower =P or the wedding...It''s different for everyone)..

There''s no point starting off something so stressful as wedding planning on the wrong foot. You don''t want to go along with things now, and then start getting major anxierty when the X moment approaches and he still hasn''t proposed.

 

[FireGoddess]

I did wait, but that''s because I had no idea when the engagement was coming.

 

[So_happy]

Personally, I see where you are coming from and I too would have misgivings about doing it before the proposal. One reason that Peridot mentioned was that if you book the venue, now there is like this clear timeline that has been created......and maybe more tension as to when the proposal will occur etc. As in, you know the hall is booked for May 08 and now you''d like to start dress hunting or thinking of bridesmaids etc or even figuring out a realistic budget but can you really? I mean...of course you absoulutely CAN.....but I guess I see where it would begin to feel like a slippery slope.

Since your future fiance is supportive of booking the venue then maybe you both can agree on only doing that due to the availability issue and put the wedding date more than a year away so he still has a couple months to have his own experience of proposing, too He''ll need to agree to have proposed sometime between x and y (y being about the year-away mark of your wedding date) and you''d just wait, with an eased mind, until then, because you know you have your dream venue?

 

[cdt1101]

Cara - I couldn''t agree more with your post!

I''m in kind of the same boat as Zoebartlett. We picked the ring out together, I know he has it, yet i''m just "waiting" for him to propose! Sorry...but i don''t buy into this whole process. We''ve already decided we want to get married, so why does he feel the need to wait to propose....I think it''s just ridiculous. Maybe it''s because we''re older, I don''t know....but I think at this point it''s kind of silly that I''m stuck her waiting.....makes no sense.

Anyway....I"m rambling, and as i''m sure you can tell I''m alittle peeved at the current situation

Zoe - I personally feel like you though, I want to start planning (since we have decided on a June 08 date), but yet I feel like "society" or family or whatever makes me not able to start the planning until we are "officially" engaged.

I feel your pain

 

[onedrop]

Zoe: I do understand your situation totally and I would say that I was sort of in the same situation. Due to our circumstances it was kind of necessary for us to start planning before the ring was on my finger. I didn''t actually book anything until I had the ring, but we had talked alot about the wheres and whens beforehand. And I was concerned that we would not have our choice of venues. However, everthing worked out fine and we got married as we both wanted.

That said, I think at this point I think if it doesn''t sit well with you, don''t start booking anything right now. Like Musey said, once the venue is booked, then there is all this pressure to then get formally engaged. I say just let the situation run its course. Hopefully, things will work out fine and you can have the wedding during the time frame that you''ve already started planning around. And if not, then you find the time/venue/vendors that work best!

 

[Class n Sass]

ZoeBartlett....I understand what you are saying. I had considered booking a reception venue before the engagement because I didn''t want to risk losing a venue that I really wanted because there was not enough time. However, something about it just didn''t sit right with me. I knew my fiance was going to propose to me but I didn''t know when. I knew that he had already been seriously looking at rings because I had went with him. I just felt like I was "jumping the gun" a little. It wasn''t about not loving, trusting or believing that he was going to propose, but it was more of the fact that life itself can be so unpredictable and you just never know. I figured if it was meant to be that the perfect venue for us would be available whenever the proposla came. And I was right...he ended up propsing very shortly after which still gave me 15 months before the wedding date to find a venue. We found one that we both fell in love with and everything is coming together nicely! Bottom line: do only what you''re completely comfprtable with. I''m a big believer in things working out for the better.

 

[Pandora II]

I had spent a lot of time looking at potential venues before I even met FI just because I knew I didn''t want a hotel, did want somewhere historic and there isn''t a huge choice near where my parents live.

However, other than PS I didn''t look at wedding ****, wedding website or anything until we were officially engaged. I think because it just felt wrong to me and I wanted to save something as special to do afterwards!

However I had my deposit paid on the venue within 2 weeks of getting engaged, would have been sooner but they were closed over Christmas

Totally up to the individual is my opinion though

 

[So_happy]

You can also try calling the venue to see if they''d hold it for you w/ no deposit. One place near me did this for 2 wks but then we needed more time so we called again and they decided to simply put us on "right of first refusal" status. This meant that we could have it on hold w/no deposit until either we cancel the hold or another couple is interested in our date at which point they''d call us first and tell us we either needed to deposit promptly or let it go.

I''m sure this doesn''t happen often but it''s worth a try.


Oh yeah, we found another place and ended up canceling but no one lost out and it felt really nice to have a venue sort of as a backup (that would have been really great and SO much cheaper I''ve now realized) while we searched for the "dream" venue (that is so dreamy but SO much more expensive than I''d thought lol).

 

[Tacori E-ring]

How funny you asked this! I was getting antsy so I booked a trip to WI (and invited my MIL!) to start looking for places and dresses. I was very open with my then FI (now DH) and even told him we should get married in August (he agreed

) Well, he did his suprise proposal the day after I got there

. Everyone was in on it! So...I looked at venues unengaged but dresses (the next day) engaged.

 

[fabcrab]

Yes we waited until it''s official. We got engaged late April and didn''t even start planning until mid-July. Also, I didn''t wait because DH kept throwing me off. Personally, I thought it was great to enjoy being engaged for a couple of months until the whole whirlwind starts. But I can understand that it takes awhile to book stuff.

Plus, if you don''t feel comfortable starting the planning without being officially engaged, then I say don''t. Are you worried about what friends/family think? When I started planning vendors (mainly during dress shopping) asked to see my ring a couple of times...then I guess it could get a little awkward without a ring.

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 5/4/2007 10:41:15 AM
Author: Class n Sass
ZoeBartlett....I understand what you are saying. I had considered booking a reception venue before the engagement because I didn''t want to risk losing a venue that I really wanted because there was not enough time. However, something about it just didn''t sit right with me. I knew my fiance was going to propose to me but I didn''t know when. I knew that he had already been seriously looking at rings because I had went with him. I just felt like I was ''jumping the gun'' a little. It wasn''t about not loving, trusting or believing that he was going to propose, but it was more of the fact that life itself can be so unpredictable and you just never know. I figured if it was meant to be that the perfect venue for us would be available whenever the proposla came. And I was right...he ended up propsing very shortly after which still gave me 15 months before the wedding date to find a venue. We found one that we both fell in love with and everything is coming together nicely! Bottom line: do only what you''re completely comfprtable with. I''m a big believer in things working out for the better.

This is how I felt too. I think actually, I feel a little better about just going for it, and I didn''t think I''d get this many replies. Thanks for your thoughts! I''m not 100% convinced that we''ll book something right away but I feel better about the situation. After all, there are certainly more important things to stress over.

 

[RoseAngel04]

We did wait until we were officially engaged to start planning our wedding...

ETA: I knew the engagement was in our near future, but I wasn't involved in the ring process....I don't know if it would have been different if I already knew he had the ring, but most likely I would have waited. But that's just me...you do what YOU want!

 

[basil]

We did wait, but that was because we got engaged 2 years before the earliest possible date we could get married.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 5/3/2007 10:02:36 PM
Author: cara
I don''t think you are overanalyzing or anything. I do think your situation is stupid (w/c?) but I don''t know the proper way out of it. Do you really think that your BF is still deciding whether he wants to marry you? Or is he caught up in logistics - I have to get a ring, pay for it, come up with some fabulous proposal. Meanwhile, you are ''patiently'' getting frustrated and resentful. Or trying not to.

Patience is a virtue, but so is communicating your feelings and expectations with your SO.

Why do you feel the need to keep saying her situation is ''stupid''? I hate that word! ''difficult'' or ''concerning'' might have been a nicer way to put it.

My hubby and I had the whole sit down and discuss when to get married talk. There was no surprise proposal and to be honest I feel like I missed out on the whole romantic gesture bit. I know a lot of people would rather just know they are engaged so they can start planning but for me a lovely proposal would have been great!

 

[cara]

The w/c after ''stupid'' was to mean ''word choice''. I knew stupid wasn''t exactly the right word. Difficult or concerning are not quite right either, thought maybe I should have used one to be nicer. Sorry, zoe. I hope my previous post made clear I was using the word as much at my own prior situation as at yours. I had put silly, but its not silly either, as silly would imply trivial or a funny mix-up or situation.

I guess what I feel is ''stupid'' is the whole riggamaroll. Clearly I bought into it enough to endure it, as opposed to asking myself or forcing us to make an official decision prior to ring exchance and formal asking, but all this waiting and expectation on the guy to ''surprise'' the girl, even though there had been some extensive prior discussion both about getting married and getting a ring. And after we were engaged, other than seeing the ring, everyone wanted to know the where and when of the proposal and if I were surprised or not. Of course they are just nice people making chit-chat, but still it enforces the idea that the girl should be ''surprised'' and the guy gets to decide timing and presentation and is judged on those things. Like getting engaged would be done less ''well'' if I were not surprised, or if done in a less fabulous location. Anyway. Enough.

Good luck zoe, either being patient or taking the reins in some way.

Maisie, I think its great you and your hubby just sat down and had a conversation. I guess I am on the other side of wistful (grass is always greener?) I had the ''romantic'' proposal but I didn''t like being in the LIW position at all. Especially after years of waiting for my FI to decide he did want to get married, then to wait another year + for ring/proposal song and dance (which he wanted to do in theory but in practice... we found jewelry shopping pretty painful.)

 

[Maisie]

Date: 5/5/2007 5:53:02 PM
Author: cara
The w/c after ''stupid'' was to mean ''word choice''. I knew stupid wasn''t exactly the right word. Difficult or concerning are not quite right either, thought maybe I should have used one to be nicer. Sorry, zoe. I hope my previous post made clear I was using the word as much at my own prior situation as at yours. I had put silly, but its not silly either, as silly would imply trivial or a funny mix-up or situation.

I guess what I feel is ''stupid'' is the whole riggamaroll. Clearly I bought into it enough to endure it, as opposed to asking myself or forcing us to make an official decision prior to ring exchance and formal asking, but all this waiting and expectation on the guy to ''surprise'' the girl, even though there had been some extensive prior discussion both about getting married and getting a ring. And after we were engaged, other than seeing the ring, everyone wanted to know the where and when of the proposal and if I were surprised or not. Of course they are just nice people making chit-chat, but still it enforces the idea that the girl should be ''surprised'' and the guy gets to decide timing and presentation and is judged on those things. Like getting engaged would be done less ''well'' if I were not surprised, or if done in a less fabulous location. Anyway. Enough.

Good luck zoe, either being patient or taking the reins in some way.

Maisie, I think its great you and your hubby just sat down and had a conversation. I guess I am on the other side of wistful (grass is always greener?) I had the ''romantic'' proposal but I didn''t like being in the LIW position at all. Especially after years of waiting for my FI to decide he did want to get married, then to wait another year + for ring/proposal song and dance (which he wanted to do in theory but in practice... we found jewelry shopping pretty painful.)

I think the difference for me and Gary was that we already had a baby together. It was sort of assumed we weren''t likely to split up and we wanted to commit to a life together.

I can see how concerning it must be to have to sit and wait for him to get round to it in his own sweet time! Maybe we ladies need to take the lead and do the proposing. Can you imagine how organised it would all be? No messing around waiting for the perfect moment to surprise him.....we would just have it sorted so we could go dress shopping!

 

[surfgirl]

zoe, do you go around telling people you are engaged? Does your SO tell people you''re engaged? If yes, then you are most definately engaged and just waiting on a ring. If not, then I think its safe to say, you''re not engaged. If your situation is the latter, then if I were you I''d not be planning yet because, as you said, it is alot of money to start plunking down for deposits, etc. without any actual formal committment. Of course, you can do research and find all the aspects of a wedding that you want, if that is something you enjoy and it makes you happy, but I personally would only plan the actual events when you both are clear that you are engaged. Hope that made sense

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 5/6/2007 12:12:16 AM
Author: surfgirl
zoe, do you go around telling people you are engaged? Does your SO tell people you''re engaged? If yes, then you are most definately engaged and just waiting on a ring. If not, then I think its safe to say, you''re not engaged. If your situation is the latter, then if I were you I''d not be planning yet because, as you said, it is alot of money to start plunking down for deposits, etc. without any actual formal committment. Of course, you can do research and find all the aspects of a wedding that you want, if that is something you enjoy and it makes you happy, but I personally would only plan the actual events when you both are clear that you are engaged. Hope that made sense

We do now!! We just got engaged last night, so it''s now official and the actual planning can begin. I really appreciate everyone''s thoughts on the matter. Maisie, thanks for sticking up for me, and Cara, no offense taken at all. Really. I''m so happy right now!

Thanks again! I''m on my way to try to post pics in SMTR.

 

[dtnyc]

Date: 5/6/2007 8:00:04 PM
Author: zoebartlett

Date: 5/6/2007 12:12:16 AM

Author: surfgirl

zoe, do you go around telling people you are engaged? Does your SO tell people you''re engaged? If yes, then you are most definately engaged and just waiting on a ring. If not, then I think its safe to say, you''re not engaged. If your situation is the latter, then if I were you I''d not be planning yet because, as you said, it is alot of money to start plunking down for deposits, etc. without any actual formal committment. Of course, you can do research and find all the aspects of a wedding that you want, if that is something you enjoy and it makes you happy, but I personally would only plan the actual events when you both are clear that you are engaged. Hope that made sense

We do now!! We just got engaged last night, so it''s now official and the actual planning can begin. I really appreciate everyone''s thoughts on the matter. Maisie, thanks for sticking up for me, and Cara, no offense taken at all. Really. I''m so happy right now!


Thanks again! I''m on my way to try to post pics in SMTR.

Congrats! Let the official planning begin!