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DILEMMA - Stuck with a Stone, Micropave Experts in LA?

A

autumnxxa

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
28
Long story short, the diamond search was placed on hold until recently and I just sourced a diamond from BGD. Emailed Victor Canera. Been shooting him a couple emails back and forth and he seemed open to the idea of setting an externally sourced stone. However, just got told clearly today he wouldn't be working with externally sourced diamonds as they are now focusing on complete engagement packages. So now I'm obviously super upset, having seen everyone on here gush about their VC creations and have encountered people online who have encouraged me to work with him as well and have spent months ogling his Emilya settings and handiwork. I really value the delicacy of how the halo is set so the little prongs holding the halo diamonds appear seamless, blending in with the diamonds.

I suppose the other option would be to have BGD set it as well or return the diamond and just source it from VC, but I feel like the PScopers on here wouldn't agree with the symmetry of the images shown... I haven't seen any good reviews so far about BGD and really would prefer some in person contact for setting the diamond.

PScopers... Any ideas? I'm VERY set on a round diamond with a halo and a micropave band and would honestly love to work with someone local as we're already very anxious about the idea of dropping a chunk of money for an online purchase. Any advice would be great, thank you all. <3
 
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Do you have to use someone in LA? Steven Kirsch here in NYC is also a master of hand forge and pave and I'm sure you could send him your stone...
 
David Klass - he is so amazing to work with and he is in LA! I am not sure how close to VC Emilya he will be able to create the halo, but you can see much of his work online. He is very patient and willing to do multiple drawings for you until you are completely satisfied with the end result. I will say that I have reached out to VC multiple times with requests to use my existing BGD stone and like you, I have been rejected multiple times. If you love the BGD stone, keep it and set it with somebody else. As others have said - Steven Kirsch is also wonderful, but he is in NYC.
 
Maytal Hannah is definitely going to be the closest to Victor for handforged micropave in the LA area.

http://www.maytalhannah.com/

She is nice to work with and would be my choice if Victor was not available. However, did you look at his diamonds to see if he has a comparable stone? That would be the best solution if you want Victor's setting.

Most people here send their diamonds to Victor, Steven, etc. to set. In person contact is not required and the vendors really don't have time for that and they do not have showrooms. Obviously if you use someone in LA, you can have a meeting to deliver the stone and discuss the setting, but very few people here have met the ringmaker in person.
 
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VC's range of stones (at least online) doesn't appear to be as extensive as other vendors (and whenever I've looked, the stones tended to be more expensive than comparable stones at WF, BGD, etc).
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
Maytal Hannah is definitely going to be the closest to Victor for handforged micropave in the LA area.

http://www.maytalhannah.com/

She is nice to work with and would be my choice if Victor was not available. However, did you look at his diamonds to see if he has a comparable stone? That would be the best solution if you want Victor's setting.

Most people here send their diamonds to Victor, Steven, etc. to set. In person contact is not required and the vendors really don't have time for that and they do not have showrooms. Obviously if you use someone in LA, you can have a meeting to deliver the stone and discuss the setting, but very few people here have met the ringmaker in person.
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I will definitely check her out. I did and noticed that certain ones I was looking at, the stones did not have great symmetry. For e.g. https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104092411003-1.532-f-vs2-ideal-hearts-arrows-round

I'd be willing to perhaps do this one https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/cwvda7-1.308-f-vs1-ideal-hearts-arrows-round since the diameter difference between the 1.3 and 1.5 are not very significant. Thoughts on this one?

The one I went with on BGD was a 1.3 (attached pic). One of the reasons why BGD was an option was that I don't get charged tax, living in CA.

I see, that's nice to know. I guess the main worry is the sizing but I'm sure things can be worked out. Thanks!

Screen Shot 2017-05-03 at 4.36.10 PM.png
 
bmfang said:
VC's range of stones (at least online) doesn't appear to be as extensive as other vendors (and whenever I've looked, the stones tended to be more expensive than comparable stones at WF, BGD, etc).
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Doesnt he give a 10% discount on the setting if you get the stone from him? Not sure if that makes up for stone cost though plus I'm not sure where
I read that so double check on it to be sure.
 
bmfang said:
VC's range of stones (at least online) doesn't appear to be as extensive as other vendors (and whenever I've looked, the stones tended to be more expensive than comparable stones at WF, BGD, etc).
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Yes, that's true. With BGD we are able to get a 'discount' too as there's no tax for CA residents. Do you have any suggestions who to go with, though? Maytal Hannah has been mentioned twice here but not sure why she isn't getting as much fanfare as VC haha.
 
tyty333 said:
Doesnt he give a 10% discount on the setting if you get the stone from him? Not sure if that makes up for stone cost though plus I'm not sure where
I read that so double check on it to be sure.
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He does. A setting is about 4k if I go with the Emilya which is $400 in savings. Sourcing a diamond elsewhere saves me the ~10% CA tax for a 15k diamond for instance, which is $1500 in savings. :)
 
autumnxxa said:
I will definitely check her out. I did and noticed that certain ones I was looking at, the stones did not have great symmetry. For e.g. https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104092411003-1.532-f-vs2-ideal-hearts-arrows-round

I'd be willing to perhaps do this one https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/cwvda7-1.308-f-vs1-ideal-hearts-arrows-round since the diameter difference between the 1.3 and 1.5 are not very significant. Thoughts on this one?

The one I went with on BGD was a 1.3 (attached pic). One of the reasons why BGD was an option was that I don't get charged tax, living in CA.

I see, that's nice to know. I guess the main worry is the sizing but I'm sure things can be worked out. Thanks!

Screen Shot 2017-05-03 at 4.36.10 PM.png
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I clicked on the first stone you linked, and that is a hearts and arrows stone with ideal symmetry. I consider the 1.53 F VS2 to be an excellent choice, unless it is outside your budget. There definitely is a visible difference between 7mm and 7.35mm, and I would go for the larger stone now especially if you are having a handforged setting made. You'd be less likely to upgrade later if you went with the larger stone now.

But, if you want to keep your current diamond, Maytal is lovely and will make you a nice ring! She made my daughter's wedding band!

If you are going to have pave on your shank, it's not good to size them anyway. But it does make it easier to have your setting maker local. Most of us don't have that option!
 
The 1.53 F VS2 has pretty good arrows patterning and the IS and ASET images look good. But (failing bad photography) the hearts image leaves a lot to be desired.

The 1.3 F SI1 looks much better and lives up to the H&A description (though in a couple of the hearts, there is a slight break in the clefts).

What was the BGD stone colour and clarity wise again?
 
While I understand VCs business reasons for not wanting to work with outside stones, this is a huge turn-off for me as a consumer. Personally, I would not be willing to work with VC after such an interaction. I know of one other vendor who does hand forged rings and also went the route of refusing to work with outside stones. From what I understand, this, along with their crappy personality, did not fare well for many PSer and you will not find them recommended here any longer.

I highly recommend Steven Kirsch. His work is equal to that of VC and often a bit less costly. He is located in NY so no tax in CA. He is also very easy to work with. Here is a recent SMTB thread of some of SKs work (mine included)... https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-steven-kirsch-beauties.230836/
 
I'm surprised more ps regulars aren't more concerned about the fact VC won't set his stone. Is this a new policy change? Why is he still offering a discount on his stones if those are the only stones hell set. I agree MH is a very nice designer who can make lovely pave
 
A couple of people on this thread have stated concerns that the symmetry on VC's 1.5 is imperfect.

This is absolutely not the case. The asymmetry in the hearts photo is strictly due to slight angle during photography - the camera was not dead-center face-up to the stone; I know this because the hearts are symmetric across all axes of symmetry except one. I'm confident VC would be happy to re-photograph the stone.
 
Niel said:
I'm surprised more ps regulars aren't more concerned about the fact VC won't set [OP's] stone. Is this a new policy change? Why is he still offering a discount on his stones if those are the only stones hell set. I agree MH is a very nice designer who can make lovely pave (bold-face added by MM)
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Hi, Niel :wavey: I learned of the change in policy in mid-December 2015 because of the OP in this thread (don't remember seeing any reference to the policy change here on PS before then):
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/victor-canera-customer-service-change.218063/
At that time and up until at least September 2016, VC's policy was
Clients may supply their own center stones provided that
a)We have available manufacturing capacity and time for pre-mount orders
b)The design requested is available without a center stone (as a pre-mount) from our catalog
c)That a customer supplied diamond is insured against damage during manufacturing.

Here's the somewhat tweaked answer as it appears on his current FAQ page:
Q: Do you accept customer supplied center stones?

A: We are a vertically integrated jewel house with an excellent assortment of precision cut loose diamonds that are ideally paired with our jewelry. A Victor Canera signature diamond paired with one of our jewelry designs results in a captivating jewel. Clients may supply their own center stones provided that the intended design is available as a pre-mount (without a center stone) from our catalog and that a customer supplied center stone is insured against damage during fabrication.
https://www.victorcanera.com/service/faqs

The next Q&A on that page explains a little bit more by what is meant by "pre-mount."
 
How does a customer know this is covered? "That a customer supplied diamond is insured against damage during manufacturing?"

I am about to get started with Caysie and had been wondering about insurance.... what if something horrible and unexpected happens, is my diamond covered?

Who has sent stones to people and what did you find out about this? Thanks.
 
whitewave said:
How does a customer know this is covered? "That a customer supplied diamond is insured against damage during manufacturing?"

I am about to get started with Caysie and had been wondering about insurance.... what if something horrible and unexpected happens, is my diamond covered?

Who has sent stones to people and what did you find out about this? Thanks.
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I always insure my stones before they are set just in case...
 
Mine is insured. I guess I need to read my policy.
 
Hopefully, someone will soon correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jewelers Mutual is the only US insurance company that will write a policy for consumers which covers stones while they are being set. IIRC there is, however, a 30-day limit on that special coverage, so if the ring isn't completed within 30 days of the time the diamond leaves your hands (or the vendor who's shipping diamond you purchased to whomever is making the setting), you may be SOL if the stone is lost/damaged before the ring's completion.

Some jewelers'-benches' own insurance policies will cover "outside" stones entrusted to them while a setting is being fabricated.
 
Caysie and I are speaking today, so I wil make a point to ask her. Thanks.
 
whitewave said:
Who has sent stones to people and what did you find out about this? Thanks.
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Ask your jeweller explicitly.
1. If my stone is lost whilst in your posessesion or damaged whilst being worked on, is it covered under your policy?

If the stone must be shipped and your jeweller provides shipping/labels:
1. If my stone is stolen or damaged en route from me to you, is it covered under your policy?
2. If my stone is stolen or damaged en route from you to me, is it covered under your policy?

Vendors will sometimes require that you take care of these insurance concerns yourself, and will require proof of other insurance before accepting work. In this case ask your insurer explicitly (and follow up with an email so it's in writing):
1. Will you cover loose stones during shipment from me to my jeweller?
2. Will you cover a finished piece during shipment from my jeweller back to me?
3. Will you cover damage to a stone whilst it is being worked on?

Molly - I know some homeowners' providers will cover these sorts of situations as well (mine did) but I prefer having jewellery insured separately (I use JM) to avoid the possibility of making a claim against my home/auto policy.
 
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Hi Autumnxxa

I’m sorry for the disappointment we might have caused but unfortunately we do have to turn some people away at times, like in the very busy engagement season in order to keep our turn around times reasonable for clients. I would hate to have to quote clients a 2 month turn around for their projects. Because all of our rings are hand fabricated, they’re labor intensive and that means that we might be able to produce ~2 rings a week or so.

Yssie, you are absolutely correct in your assessment. We’re actually still perfecting our photography. Our hearts and arrows photography does need improvement. We have a number of equipment to shoot these items but getting the diamond perfectly aligned to the camera is a challenge. Our photographer does this and we’re going to be moving to a different piece of equipment to shoot our hearts photos and pay a little bit more attention to the photos from now on to make sure that the photos are accurate.

For example, we just did re-shoot this 1.532ct using a different piece of equipment and you would agree that it’s a vast improvement with the SAME diamond but just paying slightly closer attention to having the diamond face the camera and having it centered. This was also shot using different equipment. You might need to do a hard refresh of your browser to pick up the new uploaded photo (Ctrl +R) or (Command + R) https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104092411003-1.532-f-vs2-ideal-hearts-arrows-round
No matter how finely cut a diamond is, bad photography can make it look mediocre. There is still room for improvement and being that we’ve been in the H&A market for only 4-5 years now I think, we’ve made huge strides. We’d be happy to re-photograph a stone if needed.

I appreciate all the constructive feedback and if you have questions about a diamond, please let us know. We pay very close attention to our stones and we’re actually moving to our own rough diamond procurement and manufacturing system going forward which will give us control over every single detail of our production of diamonds.


Best of luck
 
Victor, really appreciate the time you've taken to address the issues with photography in this thread. :)
 
OECrystal said:
While I understand VCs business reasons for not wanting to work with outside stones, this is a huge turn-off for me as a consumer. Personally, I would not be willing to work with VC after such an interaction. I know of one other vendor who does hand forged rings and also went the route of refusing to work with outside stones. From what I understand, this, along with their crappy personality, did not fare well for many PSer and you will not find them recommended here any longer.

I highly recommend Steven Kirsch. His work is equal to that of VC and often a bit less costly. He is located in NY so no tax in CA. He is also very easy to work with. Here is a recent SMTB thread of some of SKs work (mine included)... https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-steven-kirsch-beauties.230836/
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My understanding is that Victor is willing to work with stones already owned by a potential client. The issue is timing. If he has a lot of projects lined up, orders he has already committed to he won't be able to work on a project right away. However, if you or any person has flexibility in your schedule, he could be able to work on your project at a later date. If the interested party is on a tight timeline, that may not work for him/her. In a previous project when Victor was very busy I told him he could get to it when he had time. However, I was not trying to get a ring ready for a proposal. Not sure if that would work for the OP.
 
@LLJsmom, this is not how I read autumnxxa's post. If that is the case here, then that changes things.

autumnxxa said:
he seemed open to the idea of setting an externally sourced stone. However, just got told clearly today he wouldn't be working with externally sourced diamonds
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VC's post does not seem to address the source of the stone as being the the issue. Perhaps we are not getting the whole story from one or both parties.

Victor Canera said:
unfortunately we do have to turn some people away at times, like in the very busy engagement season in order to keep our turn around times reasonable for clients
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OECrystal said:
@LLJsmom, this is not how I read autumnxxa's post. If that is the case here, then that changes things.



VC's post does not seem to address the source of the stone as being the the issue. Perhaps we are not getting the whole story from one or both parties.
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Yes, I do see why you and the OP would read it that way. However, I spoke to him about his FAQ. As I read it seemed to indicate that he would not set any outside stone except for the ones labeled pre-mount. After our conversation, my understanding is that this is not what he intended. And I pointed out the victor's use of the term "pre-mount" is possibly confusing. My understanding after speaking with him is that all his settings are pre-mounts. Anything without a center stone is a pre-mount. To make sure there is no misunderstanding I would definitely encourage a phone call. I'm old school that way. I am one of those people that want to hear a message directly if it affects me. It's not that I don't trust people. It's that I know there can be misunderstandings.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would suggest the OP contact Victor and ask if a different timeline may work. I know he is very busy at present. My project won't be done until probably late August, due to logistical issues as well. But I'm a persistent sort. Victor said he didn't want the OP to wait. So if the OP has time, maybe that won't be an issue.
 
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