Dipping toe in the Ruby pool!!!!

[SapphireBomb]

Hi All!!
It’s been awhile since I’ve posted but I’ve been so busy bling slinging and having a blast doing it.
I’m starting the hunt for a Ruby.
I seen enough Rubies pass through every now and then to recognize heat versus no-heat.
My question right now (and I apologize I don’t have any candidates to show you right now) is more a matter of taste.
Do you all prefer the shiny clean “glassy” appearance of heated Rubies or are you more a fan of the silky included (some more than others) “softer” look of untreated Rubies???
Appreciate all thoughts….

 

[chrono]

Clean but a touch of silk would be sweet, akin to blue sapphire where it is clean but slightly velvety.

 

[VividRed]

Rutile silk is nice, muddy crystal is not. Many vendors confuse a muddy crystal with a silky one. Totally different animal

 

[SapphireBomb]

Clean but a touch of silk would be sweet, akin to blue sapphire where it is clean but slightly velvety.

Rutile silk is nice, muddy crystal is not. Many vendors confuse a muddy crystal with a silky one. Totally different animal

Thank you @chrono and @VividRed
I should mention I am only looking at certified stones so I’m not guessing re treatment.
I like the idea that it doesn’t have to be polar opposite…glassy v silky
But perhaps a pleasing combo
I can already tell this is going to take awhile!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Mine is heated but doesn't look glassy, more silky.

 

[SapphireBomb]

Mine is heated but doesn't look glassy, more silky.

Can we see your please!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

I can't photograph it well but will try later.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

By the way, why do you think that heated rubies are glassy and the unheated ones silky? Is that because of the thinking that the heat dissolves all the inclusions? I don't think that's necessarily the case.

 

[VividRed]

By the way, why do you think that heated rubies are glassy and the unheated ones silky? Is that because of the thinking that the heat dissolves all the inclusions? I don't think that's necessarily the case.

I have a very glassy unheated Burmese ruby. There are no rules, every stone is different

 

[JewelledEscalators]

I have a very glassy unheated Burmese ruby. There are no rules, every stone is different

Yes.

 

[demantoidz]

By the way, why do you think that heated rubies are glassy and the unheated ones silky? Is that because of the thinking that the heat dissolves all the inclusions? I don't think that's necessarily the case.

Heat dissolves rutile inclusions but not necessarily all. Depends on the rough/stone itself and the degree of silk, the temperature it was heated, and probably other factors I don't know about.
Indeed OP is mistaken to say they can 'recognize heat versus no-heat'. You can make a guess based on clarity, but need lab testing to confirm.

 

[VividRed]

Heat dissolves rutile inclusions but not necessarily all. Depends on the rough/stone itself and the degree of silk, the temperature it was heated, and probably other factors I don't know about.
Indeed OP is mistaken to say they can 'recognize heat versus no-heat'. You can make a guess based on clarity, but need lab testing to confirm.

The claim in the initial OP is hard to believe. What is relatively easy to spot, however, is heat with flux, although some naturally healed fissures can look very similar.

There is no way unmistakably to ID heat vs. no heat without FTIR spectroscopy. Dissolution of inclusions by heat is not a simple thing, it depends on the local conditions within the stone and on the chemical makeup of the inclusion(s), which can have varying melting points.

There is a very informative, but rather lengthy, webinar from Christopher Smith on ruby enhancements. I think it give a great primer to anyone willing to learn the basics.

 

[demantoidz]

The claim in the initial OP is hard to believe. What is relatively easy to spot, however, is heat with flux, although some naturally healed fissures can look very similar.

There is no way unmistakably to ID heat vs. no heat without FTIR spectroscopy. Dissolution of inclusions by heat is not a simple thing, it depends on the local conditions within the stone and on the chemical makeup of the inclusion(s), which can have varying melting points.

There is a very informative, but rather lengthy, webinar from Christopher Smith on ruby enhancements. I think it give a great primer to anyone willing to learn the basics.

Do you know if star rubies can be heated? My gut says yes but I'm not sure. I have seen sellers advertising star rubies as untreated because the star effect (casued by rutile) is intact.
Sorry OP for the threadjack!

 

[VividRed]

Do you know if star rubies can be heated? My gut says yes but I'm not sure. I have seen sellers advertising star rubies as untreated because the star effect (casued by rutile) is intact.
Sorry OP for the threadjack!

You can heat anything lol

Heating is done for three reasons: improving color, melting some inclusions (clarity), and flux healing.

Improving color and melting inclusions happens at low temperature (below 1200C), flux healing happens at high temperature (above 1200C).

Heating a star ruby, even at low temp, will most likely dissolve the rutile that causes asterism. So while it is possible to heat a star ruby, it makes no commercial sense.

 

[SapphireBomb]

I am not formally trained in gemology.
Just trusting my eyes.
And of course I can’t tell heated from non-heated.
I’m looking at the certifications and then looking at the stones and thinking “oh wow, the heated ones do exhibit a slightly “steelier” appearance.
That’s all.
I like the look of both.
Just wondered if PSers had an opinion on which they prefer.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Very interesting discussion! Generally speaking, the sharper the pavilion facets appear through the table, the better, IMO. However, I only collect untreated stones (besides paraiba, which are all assumed to be heated, though the treatment is often undetectable). So, with corundum, I've had to compromise a bit. My pad and blue sapphires are crystal clear, but my ruby has a touch of silk. As others have mentioned, this can be a desirable attribute, as it creates a glowy or velvety effect. But if the amount of silk begins to cloud the stone or hinder light performance, I'm out.

 

[VividRed]

I am not formally trained in gemology.
Just trusting my eyes.
And of course I can’t tell heated from non-heated.
I’m looking at the certifications and then looking at the stones and thinking “oh wow, the heated ones do exhibit a slightly “steelier” appearance.
That’s all.
I like the look of both.
Just wondered if PSers had an opinion on which they prefer.

I think a clean crystal is preferable but if from Burma, the price will explode. If you are happy with a Mozambican ruby, there are lots of clean stones at reasonable prices and they look amazing

 

[Bron357]

I think it has to be transparent enough to see all the facets of the gem. You want to see “shades” of red and you want them to “move” as you more the gem.
A “blob” of red ruby isn’t appealing.
Though I think the main thing you want is fluoresce. That’s more important to me than clarity, blob examples excluded.
The most intriguing aspect of a good ruby is the glow. Otherwise why not get a lovely garnet for a fraction of the price?
As for “treated vs heated vs unheated” that’s a personal thing, I buy things when I like the look. I buy what my eye thinks looks lovely. Treatment etc only matter in relation to pricing. If you love the look of a heated ruby or a heated with minor residue ruby why not buy it.
But you want to pay the appropriate price.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

So I really can't get the colour right at all, in real life, it's doesn't have any orange and it's not really pink either other than in certain lights. But at least you can see that even though it's heated, it's not really glassy.

It can look very transparent in certain strong lights like in supermarkets, but it never looks glassy or crystally like my spinel.

Another ruby I have is much more glassy looking, but it's cleaner and pink more than red.

 

[Gloria27]

So I really can't get the colour right at all, in real life, it's doesn't have any orange and it's not really pink either other than in certain lights. But at least you can see that even though it's heated, it's not really glassy.

It can look very transparent in certain strong lights like in supermarkets, but it never looks glassy or crystally like my spinel.

Another ruby I have is much more glassy looking, but it's cleaner and pink more than red.

 

[SapphireBomb]

So I really can't get the colour right at all, in real life, it's doesn't have any orange and it's not really pink either other than in certain lights. But at least you can see that even though it's heated, it's not really glassy.

It can look very transparent in certain strong lights like in supermarkets, but it never looks glassy or crystally like my spinel.

Another ruby I have is much more glassy looking, but it's cleaner and pink more than red.

So I really can't get the colour right at all, in real life, it's doesn't have any orange and it's not really pink either other than in certain lights. But at least you can see that even though it's heated, it's not really glassy.

It can look very transparent in certain strong lights like in supermarkets, but it never looks glassy or crystally like my spinel.

Another ruby I have is much more glassy looking, but it's cleaner and pink more than red.

Wow!
Truly beautiful thank you for sharing.

 

[SapphireBomb]

Very interesting discussion! Generally speaking, the sharper the pavilion facets appear through the table, the better, IMO. However, I only collect untreated stones (besides paraiba, which are all assumed to be heated, though the treatment is often undetectable). So, with corundum, I've had to compromise a bit. My pad and blue sapphires are crystal clear, but my ruby has a touch of silk. As others have mentioned, this can be a desirable attribute, as it creates a glowy or velvety effect. But if the amount of silk begins to cloud the stone or hinder light performance, I'm out.

This is very helpful.
I will keep this in mind for sure!

 

[demantoidz]

I am not formally trained in gemology.
Just trusting my eyes.
And of course I can’t tell heated from non-heated.
I’m looking at the certifications and then looking at the stones and thinking “oh wow, the heated ones do exhibit a slightly “steelier” appearance.
That’s all.
I like the look of both.
Just wondered if PSers had an opinion on which they prefer.

Did not mean to be rude, so if I came off that way, I apologize.
I definitely prefer silky over glassy, and Bron explained the 'red blob' phenomenon perfectly - I would avoid those! I am more of a purist with treatment, so I would rather get a smaller ruby than a heated one.

 

[SapphireBomb]

I think a clean crystal is preferable but if from Burma, the price will explode. If you are happy with a Mozambican ruby, there are lots of clean stones at reasonable prices and they look amazing

I’m open to other than Burma…

I think it has to be transparent enough to see all the facets of the gem. You want to see “shades” of red and you want them to “move” as you more the gem.
A “blob” of red ruby isn’t appealing.
Though I think the main thing you want is fluoresce. That’s more important to me than clarity, blob examples excluded.
The most intriguing aspect of a good ruby is the glow. Otherwise why not get a lovely garnet for a fraction of the price?
As for “treated vs heated vs unheated” that’s a personal thing, I buy things when I like the look. I buy what my eye thinks looks lovely. Treatment etc only matter in relation to pricing. If you love the look of a heated ruby or a heated with minor residue ruby why not buy it.
But you want to pay the appropriate price.

I think I have been so focused on all the other issues with Rubies that I forgot the “glow”!!!!!
So thank you for mentioning that most important part!

 

[SapphireBomb]

Did not mean to be rude, so if I came off that way, I apologize.
I definitely prefer silky over glassy, and Bron explained the 'red blob' phenomenon perfectly - I would avoid those! I am more of a purist with treatment, so I would rather get a smaller ruby than a heated one.

Thank you.
I’m also leaning more toward silky than glassy.
And as @Bron357 said….never forget the GLOW (which I think I kinda had!!! forest for trees kinda thing)

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Wow!
Truly beautiful thank you for sharing.

Thanks. It is heated with moderate residues though, so perhaps not for the purist. It was my first ruby (and my first proper gemstone purchase) and at the time, all I wanted was a nice, big, red ruby (despite my limited unrealistic budget) - and I got just that (not because it was heaed or treated though, the seller thought it was uheated). The colour is as red as you can ask for and really pops.

 

[VividRed]

Thank you.
I’m also leaning more toward silky than glassy.
And as @Bron357 said….never forget the GLOW (which I think I kinda had!!! forest for trees kinda thing)

There are no silky rubies outside of Burma, at least not the type of silk that gives the glow.

A “silky” non-Burmese ruby is just an included ruby, and will not glow

 

[Autumn in New England]

@Bron357 Spot on! This is one thing I like about GRS's ruby reports. They mention fluorescence. In my opinion, if a ruby does not possess strong fluorescence, it's a hard pass.

Gorgeous color to your ruby, @JewelledEscalators!!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

@Bron357 Spot on! This is one thing I like about GRS's ruby reports. They mention fluorescence. In my opinion, if a ruby does not possess strong fluorescence, it's a hard pass.

Gorgeous color to your ruby, @JewelledEscalators!!

Thanks!

Yes, flourescence is important to me too, though I have to say some Thai rubies look gorgeous!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thanks!

Yes, flourescence is important to me too, though I have to say some Thai rubies look gorgeous!

I must say I am totally unfamiliar with Thai rubies. My "knowledge" begins and ends with Burma and Mozambique. I'm going to take a look!