Do Montana Sapphires cost more than Ceylon?

[HC47]

I have narrowed down my search for my engagement ring stone. A light grey spinel has been very hard to find so I have been focusing on sapphires. My ideal sapphire is pale pink or peach, in a squareish cut, unheated. So far I have narrowed down to two vendors:

I’ve found some *beautiful* Montana sapphires on Earths treasury in various colors. Cannot even decide! But my ideal cut and colors I found on Deliqa gems.

The dilemma: Earths Treasury sapphires are stunning. I love that I don’t really have to worry about the ethical origins or quality of cut. Not that I am worried about Deliqa but I have seen less information and the prices on Deliqa seem quite good.

Earths treasury seem quite a bit more... is this because larger, unheated Montana sapphires are more rare?

If anyone has any feedback I would love to hear. Thank you!

 

[Frost]

I think yes, it's possibly because sizeable and really good quality Montana sapphire seems to be very rare. Most of the stuff they pull out is below a carat and not that great color-wise; so larger and finer stones are rare finds.

With that said; always choose color, clarity and cut over origin. When all is said and done, high quality stones of good color, clarity and cut hold value incredibly well over time regardless of their origin - and a high quality Madagascar sapphire will sell much sooner than a really bad quality Kashmir one. If you have a natural top quality sapphire, it's a natural top quality sapphire wherever it's from.

EDIT: Silly me, I didn't answer your question. Answer: it depends on color. Top quality Sri Lanka will still as a rule cost more because the color really doesn't compare (truly top quality Ceylon can stand toe-to-toe with Burma and Kashmir, as proven time and again by labs erroneously concluding origin as the latter two when it was the former). But that's for top quality, comparing the best each source has to offer.

In lower qualities, I think Montana would cost more simply because less material is mined out and offered.

 

[HC47]

"Top quality Sri Lanka will still as a rule cost more because the color really doesn't compare (truly top quality Ceylon can stand toe-to-toe with Burma and Kashmir, as proven time and again by labs erroneously concluding origin as the latter two when it was the former). But that's for top quality, comparing the best each source has to offer."

Frost, that makes perfect sense, thank you. I think I was surprised to see how $$ some of the Montanas were but then when I compare them to the more expensive Ceylon ones, the Ceylon are still much higher. Fortunately, I want a pale pink so they are not very saturated and the price is actually less than some of the Montanas I have on my "wish list".

I almost feel like for the price of a decent Montana, I could be getting a really nice Ceylon sapphire.... Even though I kind of like the Montanas better.... They are so unique!

 

[PrecisionGem]

Historically, Montana Sapphires, aside from the Yugo stones have been much less expensive then Sri Lanka stones, and typically of much less impressive color. There seems to be a push the past few years to drive the price of Montana Sapphires up. Personally I don't believe many of the stones warrant the prices they are being offered at. For the price of a dull gray/blue/green Montana stone that many people are now asking, you can buy a very nice colored sapphire from other locations.

 

[Frost]

Frost, that makes perfect sense, thank you. I think I was surprised to see how $$ some of the Montanas were but then when I compare them to the more expensive Ceylon ones, the Ceylon are still much higher. Fortunately, I want a pale pink so they are not very saturated and the price is actually less than some of the Montanas I have on my "wish list".

The only advice I can give you here is to go first and foremost for the actual quality factors - color, clarity and cut. Origin, despite every single gem-bearing country on the planet wishing otherwise while looking down their noses on everyone else, is still not a quality-determining factor. Gems are impressive and beautiful (or not) on account of their innate qualities and their shaping by human hands after being pulled out of the earth - not on account of which handful of mud they came from.

If someone is shown a beautiful stone from dirt pile x in one hand, and then shown a similar but less impressive one from dirt pile y in the other, both priced the same - these two will elicit different emotional responses and immediate comparisons based on their looks, not origin. The only way origin correlates to quality is by describing color and clarity tendencies, nothing else. But there are a few rare examples where the chemistry behind one location determines that the quality factors far surpass all others (like cobalt blue spinels - nothing comes anywhere close to Vietnam).

In a nutshell... You should buy whatever feels the nicest overall in your own set of desirability factors. For most people it will be all about color, clarity and cut, but if origin matters to you, that's perfectly okay too.

 

[lilmosun]

In a nutshell... You should buy whatever feels the nicest overall in your own set of desirability factors. For most people it will be all about color, clarity and cut, but if origin matters to you, that's perfectly okay too.

I agree with all that has been said about Montana sapphires...they tend to be sold at a premium (as many US mined stones are) and it's a matter of taste/preference as to whether its worth it. But one other thing not mentioned is that you are also paying for Jeff's beautiful faceting work. Generally speaking, the stones on Earth's Treasury seem better cut (but there are some nice ones on the other site and you can find precision cut Sri Lankan sapphires as well). Perhaps if you post the stones you are looking at, others can better advise.

 

[Sagebrush]

HC47,
When you ask about "Montana" sapphires it is important to remember that there are two very distinct types; Yogo and everything else. Yogo is a very rare, normally blue, untreated sapphire that sells at a premium far beyond that of a comparable Ceylon. Comparable is difficult as well because Yogo stones almost always display a distinct grayish mask which Ceylon's normally do not.

As for everything else, here we are speaking about the alluvial material from Colorado Bar, Gem Mountain and other deposits in and around the Missouri River. A majority of this pale multicolored rough yields gems of less than 3mm overall size.

I served as a quality evaluation consultant to American Gem back when that company held a virtual monopoly on Gem Mountain rough. They had a stockpile of 3.5 million carats of faceted stones, mostly 2-3mm rounds. I spent a week training sorters working though 16,000 carats over the course of the week. There were fewer than five stone over one carat in size. All were heat treated in Sri Lanka and none were better than mediocre when compared to Ceylon material. American Gem had come up with a range of colors like Wintergreen to describe these normally grayish, greenish blueish gems.

These two were overpriced. Despite my warnings they insisted on using regional pricing in an international market that could have cared less about U. S. origin. As far as I am aware those prices still hold.

RWW

 

[mastercutgems]

I love to cut the Montana material as it is just neat and the rough is here in the states and not a problem to get. They are ethically mined and some can be very lovely.
Many times us USA cutters do not get the chance to cut some of the loveliest sapphires that are mined in other countries due to their laws or inability to procure the rough; and as for price; the gem usually dictates to me what the price should be. If it is cheap rough, and produces a nice but not outstanding color the price is cheaper. If the gem rough is expensive and has a knockout color, clarity, and size when finished it will dictate a higher price...

As with many other locations the Montana material is usually a grey toned gem with secondary green but to be honest I had rather cut a grey toned lighter Montana sapphire than some worldly locations that the sapphires are so overly saturated they are black ... In other words I had rather have a 2 carat brilliant greyish gem sapphire than a 2 carat inky blue lifeless sapphire. But that is just personal opinion...

Many cutters do not glorify themselves by their cutting prices and they either do it for the love of cutting or they charge only what they as a consumer is willing to pay.
Just as always; this forum is wonderful to help others not pay overly for what is considered reasonable for the said gem.

I look at the gem and not normally the location unless finding a gem in that location is unheard of and then I am limited to what I will pay.

Most respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master Gem Cutter
#96CGE42

 

[MissyBeaucoup]

This may not be the color you are looking for, but I think it is a gorgeous color. I like the pale “bridal” pinks but the energy of a bolder pink is more joyful to me. I purchased a sister Umba sapphire to this one but mine is a little smaller. (I just got it set and I haven’t had a chance to take pictures yet.) This one has a great 5-sided precision cut that is unique. 1.55 carats for $620.

http://www.precisiongem.com/gemstackpage/gems.php?product/page/1230/Gem+1948+-+Sapphire

 

[MissyBeaucoup]

 

[PrecisionGem]

Here are some rough stones, the 3 on the left from Montana, and the 3 on the right from Umba Tanzania. I bought the Umba stones while in Arusha back in 2011. The cost of the Umba stones in Africa, was 3 times what I paid for the Montana stones.

 

[Stone Hunter]

This is an interesting discussion. Thanks to all the TRADE members for providing insight! I have a Montana Sapphire being set right now.

Are you HC47 interested in sapphires because they show some of the gray you were looking for in a Spinel? I have seen a gray Spinel in my stone searching....It is 5 mm x 7 mm perhaps that is too small for you?

ETA: The vendor does call it blue but the still photo looks very gray to me.

http://www.artcutgems.com/item.php?item_id=531&category_id=48