Does an old GIA certificate mean used diamond?

[tweehoang]

Hello! I found a diamond via PriceScope search and it’s for sale on Adiamor and B2C Jewels. The certificate is dated in 2017.

B2C says it’s a brand new diamond and they don’t sale used diamonds. The rep says that most likely the vender held onto it all these years in order to sell it now when the market is hot.

Adiamor said most likely it’s a new diamond but it’s rare that one of their certificates will have such an old date it on. They will have to verify with the vender if diamond is 100% brand new and figure out why date is so old but all that can only be done after I purchase the diamond.

Any advice is appreciated I did a little Google research and most articles says to avoid diamonds with very old certificates because we don’t know the true condition of the diamond since so many years have passed. But I thought merchants have to disclose to customer if the diamond they’re buying is new or not?

Thank you!

 

[Bron357]

All natural diamonds are millions of years old. Diamonds can change hands many many times between being mined and being placed in a ring.
If the lab report is a few years old it may have been previously owned and then traded or it might have been in someones inventory for years.
Likewise a diamond could be taken out of a ring (from a divorce or broken engagement) and submitted to GIA for a report. It’s common to get a new report to evidence that there has been no damage to the diamond since the earlier report. The report will be dated “last month” but that won’t mean the diamond is “fresh out of the ground to market”.

 

[tweehoang]

Thanks! That makes sense.

So if a merchant is telling me their diamond is 100% brand new and never been used….that might not be the case? No one knows for sure?

If that’s how the diamond world works, I’m ok with that. I just want to know get an idea of how everything works. Thank you!

All natural diamonds are millions of years old. Diamonds can change hands many many times between being mined and being placed in a ring.
If the lab report is a few years old it may have been previously owned and then traded or it might have been in someones inventory for years.
Likewise a diamond could be taken out of a ring (from a divorce or broken engagement) and submitted to GIA for a report. It’s common to get a new report to evidence that there has been no damage to the diamond since the earlier report. The report will be dated “last month” but that won’t mean the diamond is “fresh out of the ground to market”.

 

[MissGotRocks]

It may or may not be a ‘new’ diamond. That is really not the issue in my opinion though. The issue is that you need an updated GIA cert for the diamond. This insures that there has been no damage incurred to that diamond - regardless of where it has been - in a drawer or in a setting on someone’s finger since the last time it was certed.

 

[tweehoang]

Yes I agree! Would you ask the merchant to provide this before purchasing? Thank you.

It may or may not be a ‘new’ diamond. That is really not the issue in my opinion though. The issue is that you need an updated GIA cert for the diamond. This insures that there has been no damage incurred to that diamond - regardless of where it has been - in a drawer or in a setting on someone’s finger since the last time it was certed.

 

[foxinsox]

Thanks! That makes sense.

So if a merchant is telling me their diamond is 100% brand new and never been used….that might not be the case? No one knows for sure?

If that’s how the diamond world works, I’m ok with that. I just want to know get an idea of how everything works. Thank you!

The only time you can be 100% sure that you have a brand new diamond is when it's been custom-cut for you. I believe Whiteflash and Brian Gavin are the main vendors doing this currently. Otherwise, you can't really tell since a lot of the time, the history of the stone vanishes when a new report is created.
I would absolutely ask for a new report to ensure that it matches the parameters that you're paying for.

 

[tyty333]

Yes I agree! Would you ask the merchant to provide this before purchasing? Thank you.

You can ask but they may tell you to pound sand (in nicer terms). Is it a round brilliant cut stone?

 

[MissGotRocks]

Yes I agree! Would you ask the merchant to provide this before purchasing? Thank you.

Yes I would. It is the only ethical thing for them to do.

 

[Karl_K]

It is an industry norm that any report over 2 years old is stale and needs to be updated.
If a trusted jeweler had a stone in stock and can attest to its storage I might consider being ok with slightly longer.
In this case they have no idea where the diamond has been.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

This is very interesting since I'm looking casually at a B2C diamond that has a 2013 GIA report. It will be one of my questions if I call on it.
I think B2C were only wholesale for many years so they could have old business associates with old diamonds. Is there anything unusual about your diamond that it would not have sold years ago? I'm looking at an .80 ct O-P that's SI2, so this might explain why it sat.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

If it is listed on both Adiamor and B2C Jewels, the chances are the stone is in their 'virtual inventory' and neither physically hold it.

This means they can't examine the stone themselves to confirm its condition or send it for recertification unless they order it in themselves.

 

[LLJsmom]

If it is listed on both Adiamor and B2C Jewels, the chances are the stone is in their 'virtual inventory' and neither physically hold it.

This means they can't examine the stone themselves to confirm its condition or send it for recertification unless they order it in themselves.

Yup, good point. They would probably need to get it their hands, examine it, and then you would need to request that they send it to GIA or AGS (not sure if they would be willing to send to AGS) to get a new certificate for it. They may want to charge you for it, and it will take some time. I'm not sure who had one done recently, but I think AGS is taking 3-4 weeks. Not sure about GIA.

 

[tweehoang]

Lol yes it is

You can ask but they may tell you to pound sand (in nicer terms). Is it a round brilliant cut stone?

 

[tweehoang]

Oh wow ok good to know the 2 year standard. Makes sense bc I find it kind of sketch to hold a diamond for 5 years bc they knew the pandemic was going to happen etc.

It is an industry norm that any report over 2 years old is stale and needs to be updated.
If a trusted jeweler had a stone in stock and can attest to its storage I might consider being ok with slightly longer.
In this case they have no idea where the diamond has been.

 

[tweehoang]

Hi. No, I think it’s a pretty standard diamond. I spoke to the rep a couple times and she reassured me that it’s brand new, they don’t sell used diamonds etc. but I’m learning that may not be the case. Lol which again, I am OK about but I want 100% transparency. Even if she said it may have been refurbished (lack of a better word), I would be ok with it if the diamond is still
as good as it looks on paper. But deff want a more current certificate.

This is very interesting since I'm looking casually at a B2C diamond that has a 2013 GIA report. It will be one of my questions if I call on it.
I think B2C were only wholesale for many years so they could have old business associates with old diamonds. Is there anything unusual about your diamond that it would not have sold years ago? I'm looking at an .80 ct O-P that's SI2, so this might explain why it sat.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Actually after seeing the GIA cert, I would personally pass and look for a better stone.

Those proportions don't work well together (large 58 table, with a 36 crown angle and a 55 star makes the crown too steep). Plus the dated GIA cert.

If you still interested in this stone, request for an ASET or idealscope so you can confirm its performance.

 

[tweehoang]

Awe dang I thought I was doing ok bc it scored well on HCS and Stonealgo but yes I did notice that the table and crown is bigger than ideal.

May I ask what you think of this one?

Actually after seeing the GIA cert, I would personally pass and look for a better stone.

Those proportions don't work well together (large 58 table, with a 36 crown angle and a 55 star makes the crown too steep). Plus the dated GIA cert.

If you still interested in this stone, request for an ASET or idealscope so you can confirm its performance.

 

[Matriochka]

Awe dang I thought I was doing ok bc it scored well on HCS and Stonealgo but yes I did notice that the table and crown is bigger than ideal.

May I ask what you think of this one?

Here in this link it is written that 40.8 PA + 35 CA works with 80%lower halves https://www.pricescope.com/education/diamond-cut/diamond-proportions

Maybe it is not a big issue, but would be great if an expert can explain lower halves % vs CA +PA and also star % - how it should works with CA / tables.

 

[Kim N]

Awe dang I thought I was doing ok bc it scored well on HCS and Stonealgo but yes I did notice that the table and crown is bigger than ideal.

May I ask what you think of this one?

This is much nicer than the previous stone, but if you're looking for a top-of-the-line stone, this probably wouldn't be it. It has some symmetry issues and leakage under the table.

 

[tweehoang]

Oh man. Can u please give me some parameters for a top-of-the-line stone? I was highly relying on the HCS, StoneAlgo Cut Grade and this guide. I was trying to PM you but don’t think I can. lol thank you

This is much nicer than the previous stone, but if you're looking for a top-of-the-line stone, this probably wouldn't be it. It has some symmetry issues and leakage under the table.

 

[Kim N]

Oh man. Can u please give me some parameters for a top-of-the-line stone? I was highly relying on the HCS, StoneAlgo Cut Grade and this guide. I was trying to PM you but don’t think I can. lol thank you

No, there's no PM function on PriceScope. This stone's proportions are indeed ideal, but GIA uses averaged proportions, so they won't tell the whole story. The Ideal-Scope image of this stone shows some asymmetry and leakage under the table.

Check out this visual by Garry H (Cut Nut) to help identify leakage:

 

[SandyK]

@tweehoang you have an awesome budget that will get you a killer stone!! Since you want a top performing stone (and have a great budget), is there a reason you don't want to go with one of the recommended super ideal vendors, like Whiteflash?

I saw some stones recommended in your other thread, and as mentioned you can always get an AGS stone dual certed by GIA as well. Everyone here wants you to be thrilled with your stone! And the easiest, most surefire way to get a "top-of-the-line stone" is to go with a vendor that specializes in super ideal cuts.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Awe dang I thought I was doing ok bc it scored well on HCS and Stonealgo but yes I did notice that the table and crown is bigger than ideal.

May I ask what you think of this one?

The HCA is a rejection tool to help you filter out stone that are unlikely to perform well. After that, you need to look the specifics of the stone to see if it is a actually a good choice.

About the 2.61ct D VS1, I agree with @Kim N below and would add that the stone also has medium blue fluorescence which can affect resale/trade price if you ever decide to do that. I personally have no issues with fluor but not everyone likes fluor and in high colors, the stone gets discounted for having fluor.

This is much nicer than the previous stone, but if you're looking for a top-of-the-line stone, this probably wouldn't be it. It has some symmetry issues and leakage under the table.

Agree with this suggestion to go with a super ideal cut vendor to get the best cut since you have the budget for it.

@tweehoang you have an awesome budget that will get you a killer stone!! Since you want a top performing stone (and have a great budget), is there a reason you don't want to go with one of the recommended super ideal vendors, like Whiteflash?

I saw some stones recommended in your other thread, and as mentioned you can always get an AGS stone dual certed by GIA as well. Everyone here wants you to be thrilled with your stone! And the easiest, most surefire way to get a "top-of-the-line stone" is to go with a vendor that specializes in super ideal cuts.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I’d personally use Whiteflash to get the best cut, but if you look at GIA graded stones, you can use the HCA. But don’t just look at the number. You want excellent on light return, fire, and scintillation and very good on spread. That first stone you posted shouldn’t have been considered. AGS is more precise on cut grading and that’s why vendors like Whiteflash use it for their superideal cuts.

 

[tweehoang]

I got some more images of the 2.62

may I have your thoughts?

The HCA is a rejection tool to help you filter out stone that are unlikely to perform well. After that, you need to look the specifics of the stone to see if it is a actually a good choice.

About the 2.61ct D VS1, I agree with @Kim N below and would add that the stone also has medium blue fluorescence which can affect resale/trade price if you ever decide to do that. I personally have no issues with fluor but not everyone likes fluor and in high colors, the stone gets discounted for having fluor.



Agree with this suggestion to go with a super ideal cut vendor to get the best cut since you have the budget for it.

 

[lulu_ma]

Here’s a snap of a super ideal ASET just so you have a point for comparison

 

[DiamDude]

Hey you have a great choice the one you shared above 2.71 looks great if it comes at good price Symmetry looks good only at certain point its not matching however looking towards the light performance it will be sparkly one. Based upon the spec that you are searching for I have seen one diamond at blue nile below is the screen shot, you can also find it on multiple online retailors as they share virtual inventory and all of them has different prices you can ask any website for that diamond and they will give there prices and mostly the below one looks great on papers but if you get ASET for it that might can work in your favor. All the best.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

I got some more images of the 2.62

may I have your thoughts?

The idealscope image shows decent light return but the stone does have symmetry issues and the ASET image shows signs of digging approx around the 2, 5, and 7 o'clock mark (the green patches).

IMHO I would suggest getting a better cut diamond with a super ideal vendor like WhiteFlash and BGD - for the best cut and upgrade possibility. It seems that you prefer high colors and you're ok with fluorescence? If so, this might be a nice option from BGD:

2.512 F VS2 Brian Gavin Blue

Buy diamonds online - AGS graded 2.512 carat F VS2 Round super ideal cut Brian Gavin Blue Diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Best cut, save 6K and decent upgrade policy as well.
Although WF has the best upgrade policy, I didn't see anything that seem to suit.

 

[tweehoang]

Hi again. I did some more research and you’re right, I don’t want med fluorescent if I am staying within colorless. I know lots of ppl here have suggested BGD and WF but for now I strictly would like to stay with GIA (sorry- I know I’m being stubborn).

If you or anyone has time can you please give me your thoughts on this one? The images look great but I obviously haven’t seen many scope images. Thank you all so much!!!

And also- would you rule out a 63% depth right away? Any wiggle room there?

The idealscope image shows decent light return but the stone does have symmetry issues and the ASET image shows signs of digging approx around the 2, 5, and 7 o'clock mark (the green patches).

IMHO I would suggest getting a better cut diamond with a super ideal vendor like WhiteFlash and BGD - for the best cut and upgrade possibility. It seems that you prefer high colors and you're ok with fluorescence? If so, this might be a nice option from BGD:

2.512 F VS2 Brian Gavin Blue

Buy diamonds online - AGS graded 2.512 carat F VS2 Round super ideal cut Brian Gavin Blue Diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Best cut, save 6K and decent upgrade policy as well.
Although WF has the best upgrade policy, I didn't see anything that seem to suit.

 

[tweehoang]

Thank for the the tips!!! Yes I’ve been trying to jump around diff sites to search but I don’t know if it’s Valentines month or what but 3 diamonds that I like…I wasn’t able to secure. One day James Allen had it and the next they don’t. Then I see it again on another site but vendor can’t get it bc it’s overseas etc.

Hey you have a great choice the one you shared above 2.71 looks great if it comes at good price Symmetry looks good only at certain point its not matching however looking towards the light performance it will be sparkly one. Based upon the spec that you are searching for I have seen one diamond at blue nile below is the screen shot, you can also find it on multiple online retailors as they share virtual inventory and all of them has different prices you can ask any website for that diamond and they will give there prices and mostly the below one looks great on papers but if you get ASET for it that might can work in your favor. All the best.