Does anyone play saxophone?

[eks6426]

My 9 year old son has decided to take up the sax. I need to get him one to play but I''m a bit lost on all the options. I see pricing from $300 to $3000+. Does anyone know anything about brands/models etc. that we be good for a student but last him through high school?

 

[sumbride]

Can you rent one? That''s usually the best option for a beginning student.

 

[eks6426]

The rental options are expensive enough that buying one might be better...especially if the store has a generous buy-back policy.

 

[Mara]

I can ask Greg tonite, he is a sax player. He has gotten some cool stuff on eBay too so that might be a good place to find a used one. Or you can find a good music store and they typically have used items that work for students. I played violin a long time ago and my parents bought me a new one and I hardly used it! So used would be more cost-effective if he is not sure how much he will be into it long-term.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/14/2006 2:38:41 PM
Author:IslandDreams
My 9 year old son has decided to take up the sax. I need to get him one to play but I'm a bit lost on all the options. I see pricing from $300 to $3000+. Does anyone know anything about brands/models etc. that we be good for a student but last him through high school?

Awesome!

If he's planning on being a part of public music education in JH and HS you could be in for a lot of thrills. I was involved at JH through collegiate levels as an educator for 15 years.

An esteemed saxophone specialist I know recommends either the Yamaha YAS-23 or YAS-475 (which is a great horn for the money). Many music stores have rent-to-own programs with decent terms. If you are in an area with strong public music education in the schools you might consider contacting the band director at a local JH or HS to get their recommendations and contact information for stores that serve the area.

If you do this, ask for the band director who is the district's woodwind specialist - or their primary private instructor on saxophone. Instruments evolve and if you speak to a director with a brass or percussion specialty there is a chance you could get information that is outdated.

 

[AsscherGirl]

Date: 9/14/2006 2:38:41 PM
Author:IslandDreams
My 9 year old son has decided to take up the sax. I need to get him one to play but I''m a bit lost on all the options. I see pricing from $300 to $3000+. Does anyone know anything about brands/models etc. that we be good for a student but last him through high school?

Hey IslandDreams -

When I started playing an instrument in 5th grade, everyone started out with a rental...so many kids quit band after the first month or the first year, it''s hardly worth it to buy an expensive instrument.

We were all given the Yamaha beginner type instruments and they served us into high school...but most people started getting new instruments in high school... for example, I played the flute. We rented my flute for 2 years, and in 7th grade, we paid it off for $250. In high school, I needed a flute with open holes & extra keys for lower notes that did not come on the beginner flute. I ended up buying one in 10th grade for about $900 (not a professional level or anything so it was pretty cheap) I also ended up buying 2 piccolos (indoor ($2,000!) & outdoor ($600))....

Most kids start out with an alto sax also. As your son gets older, he may prefer to play the Tenor Sax or a Bari sax...I''d wait until he was more interested in music/band to buy him an expensive instrument. At 9 - there really won''t be a difference...and usually the schools have the other saxes that the kids can borrow to try out and such.

It always makes me so happy to hear kids still want to play instruments - I had the BEST time in band and I still miss playing on a regular basis. Good luck to him!!

 

[JulieN]

My sister and I have always ordered stuff from the Woodwind and Brasswind catologues. Yamaha doesn't list prices (call.) Something under 1K is fine for a beginner http://wwbw.com/Woodwinds-d61+4294900295.music She and I played some pretty crappy instruments in elementary school, and upgraded in middle school. It's harder to play on crappy instruments, and you'll never know how good he actually is.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/14/2006 4:28:18 PM
Author: Mara
I can ask Greg tonite, he is a sax player. He has gotten some cool stuff on eBay too so that might be a good place to find a used one. Or you can find a good music store and they typically have used items that work for students. I played violin a long time ago and my parents bought me a new one and I hardly used it! So used would be more cost-effective if he is not sure how much he will be into it long-term.

If you're worried about the long term you may consider lease-to-own. Those programs exist and you can escape after 9 months if it looks like it's not taking.

A sax is one instrument I'd never consider from eBay unless you have a local pro who can check out the pads/resonators, cork, rods and keys before you commit to it. It's one of the instruments that can look great in a photo - but what you don't know is that young Cletus dropped it down the stairs & Uncle Ernie fixed up the side keys & rods just fine using his rock hammer. You'll never know the pads are misaligned until that horrible day the teacher tells you it's a lemon.

That said, a fire sale on a never-used instrument (or one well-cared for) could work out. I just feel it's prudent to raise the caution flag.

 

[eks6426]

Thank you everyone for the advice. My son is in a Catholic school that doesn't have a true band department. The band is actually run by a local college and the instructors are college students. At a high school level, there will be a more formal band program but it still not like the larger high schools where there are a lot of options. There is no marching band in the HS he is likely to attend.

That being said, he has a very high interest in music. He has been begging to play something since he was 4. He had a very hard time picking an instrument because he likes them all. Even when we went and tested them on the instruments, the people at the store and the college band students were amazed that he had good sound on nearly everything. It came down between French horn and sax. He picked sax because he likes jazz. He actually listens to jazz instead of hip hop which is what is friends listen to.

I actually live in South Bend so I went to Woodwind and Brasswind today at lunch. They don't have very many options to look at. The Yamaha YAS23 is considered the "best" student sax and is priced over $1000. (I actually was able to talk them down some). The other student models are more in the $400 range. Woodwind & Brasswind's program is they will buy back the instrument at 60% for 30 days to 1 year. 1-2 years 50%, 2-3 years 40%. The school year is 9 months long so at the end of the year if he quits. WW&BW would buy back the sax at $600 so my "cost" for the 9 months was $400 or $44.44 per month. The rental/lease to own option is $55 for a used sax that isn't as good of quality as the Yamaha one. That's why I'm considering buying. But if those $400 sax's would work just fine, then that is even cheaper yet.......and I'd still have the buy-back option...so the 9 month cost could be as low as $17.77.

 

[gailrmv]

fantastic that your son wants to play and is already so motivated and talented! I hope he will enjoy music throughout his school years and beyond. It is a wonderful hobby. Sax is a great choice, so versatile (except for orchestra - but he could also learn clarinet for orchestra if he wants, a lot of the skills carry over.)

makes sense to get him a beginner instrument now and if he is serious and good, look into an advanced student or professional instrument later on. It will be several thousand dollars but maybe could pay off in the form of college scholarship and certainly enjoyment. Selmer and Yamaha make some excellent instruments. Make sure he learns the proper care of it and get it maintained when needed.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Do you have brand names and model numbers? I can let you know what to avoid.

As with many things, you're going to get what you pay for. $18/mo is pretty attractive if budget is a priority: You could get by with investing that for 9 months just to see if he will continue and step-up to a better instrument at that time after < $200.

You're near a lot of incredible public music programs. Marian Catholic HS in Chicago Heights has won the Bands Of America Nationals 7 times, the state contest 21 years in a row - and their concert band is undefeated in the IL concert band contest. There are some equivalent groups near Indianapolis: Carmel and Lawrence Central have robust marching and concert band programs. The Bands Of America is headquartered in Indianapolis and Drum Corps International & the Percussive Arts Society are moving there, so you're in a fortunate geographic location for exposure to young people achieving at the highest musical levels.

BOA is just launching their Jazz Band of America, which will premier in Indianapolis at Clowes Hall with Wynton Marsalis this coming march.

Ok, so this may be more than you need, but I am enthusiastic because I have seen involvement in extracurricular endeavors help parents to focus and develop student maturity far beyond the simple financial investment which is involved. It's awesome that you have actually visited the WW & BW and got the info you did. Many people don't go that far.

 

[RockDoc]

Have you consider keyboards?

I played alto sax as a pup, and I enjoyed it. Probably could still play, but I became more enamored with keyboards.

The pros of a keyboard ( especially the new electronic ones )

1. You get a variety of sounds.

2. You learn chord structure a lot easier

3. He can practice whenever he wants ( put on earphones ) with sax you can''t muffle it.

4. He can sound great even when playing by himself ( with the one finger chord, fingered chords, and accompanyment option built in to the electronc keyboards).

5. Reading music becomes more comprehensive as you train your eyes to read two staffs (piano) or three ( classical organ).

6. If he gets creative ( writing his own music ) you can save it to disk, convert to written etc.

7. An unused keyboard sitting in the corner, will usually be fun eventually by someone ( family or company ) An unused saxophone - doubtful

Keyboards are fairly inexpensive, require less maintenence and if there are others in the family everyone can use it.

I have two pianos an organ, a harpsichord and two electronic keyboards ( think I''m biased ? )

Can probably get a pretty nice electronic keyboard with a lot of the bells and whistles around 300-400 ( I liked the Casio ones ). Korg is probably the best ones, but they are really pricey.

I had a Martin saxophone. Don''t know if they are still making them, but I liked it as compared to the Selmer.

Rockdoc

 

[Jelly]

Hi,

I''m a band director who teaches middle school and high school. You''re on the right track going with Woodwind Brasswind. I would stick with a good brand such as Yamaha, Selmer, Jupiter.

Here''s one that is made by a reputable brand (selmer-conn) and is very inexpensive for a saxophone:
http://wwbw.com/Prelude-by-Conn-Selmer-Alto-Saxophone-i268047.music

I''m not familiar with this particular model, but Selmer is a good brand and hopefully comes with a good warranty.

I''ve also heard good things about the student-model Cannonball saxophones. A fellow band director/friend told me that they play very well in tune and my local repairman likes them a lot.
http://www.cannonballmusic.com/artists.php

Good luck!

 

[Jelly]

Another option would be to start him on clarinet. It''s lighter, not as LOUD, and he can make an easy switch to saxophone in his second year of playing. The saxophone fingering is the same as the upper register of the clarinet.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

 

[monarch64]

Date: 9/14/2006 6:26:03 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
Do you have brand names and model numbers? I can let you know what to avoid.

As with many things, you''re going to get what you pay for. $18/mo is pretty attractive if budget is a priority: You could get by with investing that for 9 months just to see if he will continue and step-up to a better instrument at that time after < $200.

You''re near a lot of incredible public music programs. Marian Catholic HS in Chicago Heights has won the Bands Of America Nationals 7 times, the state contest 21 years in a row - and their concert band is undefeated in the IL concert band contest. There are some equivalent groups near Indianapolis: Carmel and Lawrence Central have robust marching and concert band programs. The Bands Of America is headquartered in Indianapolis and Drum Corps International & the Percussive Arts Society are moving there, so you''re in a fortunate geographic location for exposure to young people achieving at the highest musical levels.

BOA is just launching their Jazz Band of America, which will premier in Indianapolis at Clowes Hall with Wynton Marsalis this coming march.

Ok, so this may be more than you need, but I am enthusiastic because I have seen involvement in extracurricular endeavors help parents to focus and develop student maturity far beyond the simple financial investment which is involved. It''s awesome that you have actually visited the WW & BW and got the info you did. Many people don''t go that far.

He speaketh the truth, ID! There are many outlets for your son to take advantage of in Indiana!

Also, has he any interest in piano? As an instrument I''m sure you know it''s a great investment. As a basis to learning many, many other instruments it can be key. Just my .02.

 

[eks6426]

Thank you for the advice. John, I know that we are in a good spot for driving him to get to view music in action and I have actually done some of that. I have been taking him to things since he was a baby. My husband is a band guy (Trombone) from University of Illinois so we take him there...sit in practices--see the behind the scenes stuff then the end result. He sometimes gets to sit in a chair in the band during the practice...much different than being in the audience. We even attend some of concerts that Notre Dame puts on and the free concerts in the parks around my area (I think we are the youngest ones in the audience by a good 30 years!) I just wish is actual school had better programs.

I didn't know about the jazz band of America. I will definitely check that one out.

Rockdoc--I have suggested the keyboard and he has had limited piano lessons. His interest really hasn't been there...it has been more in band instruments.

As for the instruments--

The Prelude by Conn-Selmer suggested by Jelly is an option at WW&BW at $399 but they are out of stock for 2-3 weeks. Conn-Selmer is in my sister county and they are on strike so it could be longer.

Jupiter 767GL--$949

Barrington Model 310 $379

Blessing 202 $639

Yamaha YAS23 $1095

Jelly--you suggested the clarinet. Someone else suggested the same thing to me..that he learn clarinet first then move on to sax because sax players are expected to double as clarinet players. And it is easier to go clarinet to sax than sax to clarinet. Is this right? Clarinet is considered a "girl" instrument in my son's school so it would be tought to get him to do it.

 

[JohnQuixote]

You're getting good input here. I'll ask my sax contact about specifics on the list.

Check this - there are some school systems that start all of their beginners on flute, clarinet, trumpet or trombone... Then in the second year they move some of the clarinet players to sax/double reeds and trumpet & trombone players to horn, euph and tuba. That is for 4 reasons: (1) Those 'primaries' are important for anyone to know. (2) Some kids are better suited for a certain instrument because of facial construction - even though it may not be one they had considered - and by the end of a year it's easy to know if they have adapted well to (trumpet) or would be better suited for (horn). (3) to overcome any stigma/gender stereotypes about those instruments. (4) Schools typically provide tenor/bari sax, bassoon, horn and euph/tuba for students. This way they see who is 'serious' before checking a school-owned instrument out.

None of the places I was associated with started this way, but it does occur.

Speaking of setup, this is something to remember in the first days of instruction: Find out what the local philosophy is regarding center versus side-position. 'Jazzers' used to learn with the sax on the side of their bodies, but for purposes of transition to other instruments & proper embouchure and breathing many reputable instructors position the sax at the center of the body these days, regardless of jazz vs classical application. Just a Q to consider (and it relates to the 'should he start on clarinet' question).

My parents forced me to take piano lessons for 6 grueling years even though we couldn't afford it. I hated them for it - resisted, kicking and screaming - made them enforce my practice every night with a sourpuss attitude... It was one of the best things they ever did for me.

 

[eks6426]

Thanks John. I think we are going to get the Yamaha YAS23 because it comes out cheaper than renting and I''ve been told the cheaper instruments will work, but he will probably need a new one in just 1-2 years anyway.

I will definitely as about the position of how he is taught to play.

 

[MelissaSue]

Definitely try to rent one to start with. He seriously could give it up by middle school.. You really don''t need anything more than a student model unless he decides to go on to play in college or something.. DH and I both played saxophone.. Him only in elementary and middle school and I picked it up in High school so I could play in the jazz band (I was a clarinet player).. I could not even tell you what brands we own though.

 

[MelissaSue]

oh and it IS definitley easier to go from clarinet to Sax than vice versa, but honestly.. I don''t know many sax players that were expected to double as clarinet players.. but I do know several clarinet players that were asked to play sax for various reasons.. ANd I agree wtih you that clarinet is definitely a "girl" instrument, although my dearest friend in high school was a very good male clarinet player.. and there were also quite a few male clarinet players when I had a short stint as a college music major.. but if he wants to play sax, let him learn that! If he wants to learn clarinet later, its not THAT different..

 

[codex57]

Date: 9/15/2006 4:44:29 PM
Author: IslandDreams
Thanks John. I think we are going to get the Yamaha YAS23 because it comes out cheaper than renting and I''ve been told the cheaper instruments will work, but he will probably need a new one in just 1-2 years anyway.


I will definitely as about the position of how he is taught to play.

I really doubt he''ll need a new one in 1-2 years. Unless he goes full bore and decides to become a music major or something, the basic one will be enough to last him through high school. He''s 9. What are the realistic chances of him really sticking this all the way through? Also, you don''t outgrow these things by physical size or even grade levels. You outgrow them as your skill improves and you are trying to make a certain band or music program and you need one that makes an even purer sound.

I played clarinet and I used the same one from 7th grade all the way to 12th (my high school went 7th thru 12th). Just had to change the reeds. I had no intention of majoring in music. I stayed in the band because I enjoyed it, going from the little junior high class and into the high school marching band/orchestra. In a marching band, the subtle acoustics of a higher quality instrument are lost outdoors. We didn''t play competitive or prestigious events during orchestra "season" so the absolute best quality sound didn''t matter there either. If your son''s schools aren''t doing those super competitive events, he''s likely going to be fine with that same beginner sax.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/15/2006 4:44:29 PM
Author: IslandDreams
Thanks John. I think we are going to get the Yamaha YAS23 because it comes out cheaper than renting and I've been told the cheaper instruments will work, but he will probably need a new one in just 1-2 years anyway.

I will definitely as about the position of how he is taught to play.

Cool. My 'inside guy' wrote back and a new 23 goes for near $1200, but WWBW may be able to do better. Used/guaranteed you should anticipate $700-1000.

For the record I am a Yamaha artist. I feel I should disclose that, although I'm percussion - not woodwind - and have nothing to gain by this recommendation. I simply believe Yamaha and Selmer make the best beginner saxes.

 

[Jelly]

Date: 9/15/2006 10:46:41 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
You''re getting good input here. I''ll ask my sax contact about specifics on the list.

Check this - there are some school systems that start all of their beginners on flute, clarinet, trumpet or trombone... Then in the second year they move some of the clarinet players to sax/double reeds and trumpet & trombone players to horn, euph and tuba. That is for 4 reasons: (1) Those ''primaries'' are important for anyone to know. (2) Some kids are better suited for a certain instrument because of facial construction - even though it may not be one they had considered - and by the end of a year it''s easy to know if they have adapted well to (trumpet) or would be better suited for (horn). (3) to overcome any stigma/gender stereotypes about those instruments. (4) Schools typically provide tenor/bari sax, bassoon, horn and euph/tuba for students. This way they see who is ''serious'' before checking a school-owned instrument out.

This is how I run my program with my 5th graders. We have a "pull-out" program that only meets twice a week, a half hour each time. There''s just not enough time to teach percussion and saxophone on one hour a week. Plus, this leads to a more balanced instrumentation down the road. Even a large sized band doesn''t need any more than a few alto saxes.

I''m sorry there is a stigma with playing the clarinet. At my school (in northern california) most boys steer away from the flute and go more for the brass instruments and clarinet. Those clarinet players who start on clarinet with the intention of switching to the saxophone in their second year, often fall in love with the clarinet and never want to switch.

Good luck on your search! Let us know what you come up with.

Here''s a couple of other online dealers:
Interstate Music
BrookMay

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/16/2006 1:02:38 AM
Author: Jelly

This is how I run my program with my 5th graders. We have a 'pull-out' program that only meets twice a week, a half hour each time. There's just not enough time to teach percussion and saxophone on one hour a week. Plus, this leads to a more balanced instrumentation down the road. Even a large sized band doesn't need any more than a few alto saxes.

I'm sorry there is a stigma with playing the clarinet. At my school (in northern california) most boys steer away from the flute and go more for the brass instruments and clarinet. Those clarinet players who start on clarinet with the intention of switching to the saxophone in their second year, often fall in love with the clarinet and never want to switch.

Good luck on your search! Let us know what you come up with.

Here's a couple of other online dealers:
Interstate Music
BrookMay

Jelly - That's the way to go on such a schedule. Treated correctly, I'd imagine that not only is the instrumentation balanced better (+ for staff), but some students who were apprehensive about starting on one of the primaries discovers an aptitude they never would have realized (+ for kids).

No sympathy for gender stigma

, sorry. My brother played clarinet, was on the BB team in HS and was a drum major with the DCI Blue Devils (Jelly knows what I'm talking about).

BTW - Brook Mays filed for bankruptcy and is being liquidated.

 

[Jelly]

That''s too bad about Brook Mays. Last year there was a huge lawsuit filed by the First Act Instrument Company against Brook Mays over some slanderous remarks made by Brook Mays. The jury ended up giving First Act $20 million.

The First Act Brand makes very low quality instruments and sells them for low prices at stores such as Costco, Sam''s Club, Walmart, Target, and Toys R Us. In my experiences, kids will come to school with these "instrument look-alikes" and will be discouraged when they don''t sound as good as the rest of the kids. The instruments are very fragile and will break easily in the hands of a 10 year old. Kids blame themselves and end up quitting. Shame on them for putting Brook Mays out of business!!!!

Article about the lawsuit: First Act Lawsuit

 

[JulieN]

Date: 9/15/2006 11:30:03 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
For the record I am a Yamaha artist.

OMG. TOO COOL. Do you have a profile? One of my drum corps coaches back in HS is a Vic Firth artist.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 9/16/2006 1:02:38 AM
Author: Jelly

I''m sorry there is a stigma with playing the clarinet. At my school (in northern california) most boys steer away from the flute and go more for the brass instruments and clarinet. Those clarinet players who start on clarinet with the intention of switching to the saxophone in their second year, often fall in love with the clarinet and never want to switch.

Good luck on your search! Let us know what you come up with.

Here''s a couple of other online dealers:
Interstate Music
BrookMay

HI:

Interesting. This is what happened to my 13 yr old son--he stayed with the clarinet and is enjoying it. He has a virbrant music teacher at school and his tutor is youthful, energetic, talented and very interested in him. Yeah for music teachers!!

cheers--Sharon

 

[eks6426]

Thank you everyone for your advice. We wound up getting the Yamaha YAS23 for my son. It's still considered a student instrument, but one of the better ones. It comes out cheaper to buy one than rent one so that's why we did it this way.

I think starting the whole group on Clarinet would be good, but unfortunately that's not an option for my son's classs. When we went to lessons there were 12 girls on clarinet, and not 1 boy.

When we went to Woodwind & Brasswind on Saturday they were very nice. They gave my son a "mini" lesson to make sure he could put it together properly and also understand the basics of where to put his fingers and how to blow. He made great sound right away.

When we got home Saturday afternoon, he put it back together and started following the DVD that came with his music book. He did that on and off Sat & Sunday until his first lessons last night. The instructor last night said he was very surprised to hear a kid who already knew several notes and got good sound. My son said the DVD was really useful and taught him how to play some of the notes. So, I guess we are off to a good start.

We have 30 days to return it so I told him he has to be really sure by the beginning of October. After that he is committed for at least 2 years.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/16/2006 7:49:33 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 9/15/2006 11:30:03 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
For the record I am a Yamaha artist.

OMG. TOO COOL. Do you have a profile? One of my drum corps coaches back in HS is a Vic Firth artist.

My Yamaha Profile.

I may know him Julie - I'm affiliated with Vic Firth as well.

ETA: Your avatar makes me hungry.

 

[JulieN]

Very interesting stuff you have there. My coach''s name is Tom Float-one of the coolest cats I''ve ever met.

Just substituting calories for sparklies...