Does anyone seen any inclusions in this sapphire?

[Macky]

Recently, I was going to purchase a 2.34 carat unheated blue sapphire which someone pointed out to me had a sizable inclusion. I therefore declined against purchasing it. Anyway, the same vendor has offered me a smaller unheated blue sapphire (1.97 carats) for the same price. Can someone confirm how bad these inclusions are? The thing, however, that is putting me off currently is the lack of strong saturation and the window. Thanks!

 

[pwsg07]

The colour is uneven in this sapphire. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[minousbijoux]

I'd pass. Bowtie, zoning, lack of saturation, mediocre cutting. Macky: I thought you had decided it was worth it to branch out to other sellers, spend a more realistic amount, and find a decent sapphire candidate? Limiting your options to this one seller just doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere.

 

[Macky]

Yes, that’s what I thought too, but I took my sapphires from this seller to a GIA certified gemstone appraiser in Manhattan, and he was very impressed with my purchases for the price. As all of the sapphires I have bought never exceed $100, he said they were good deals.

 

[Macky]

But of course there is no reason to buy this one if the saturation is so weak.

 

[digdeep]

So you are buying sapphire's for less than $100 and taking them to a GIA graduate in NYC (must be a cheap appraisal).....yet coming here to screen/assess more sapphire's with the experienced people on this board, before you decide to purchase more gems. I thought you were looking for a specific gem (and I believe that is what you stated in another thread)............Silly me!

 

[Macky]

Do you enjoy being rude? Does this make you feel better about your life?

 

[minousbijoux]

Macky: you are new to this site. Digdeep has been around for a good while and is just seeking clarification from you on what's up, and how we may help you, because it does seem like we've gotten some conflicting info from you - thus the reason for my confusion as well.

Ultimately, the important thing is that you like the stone, not our preferences. Frankly, instead of buying any of the stones you've purchased to date, I would've saved my money and bought one much higher quality sapphire. Fwiw, there are deals out there on sapphires of higher quality as well!

 

[Macky]

Okay, thank you for clarifying that. Honestly, I just love buying stones! I think they are so pretty. And I love the thrill of winning them at auctions, so I set my $ limit and I just bid away!

Yes, I realise that it would be more sensible to buy one higher quality sapphire (my husband agrees with you Minousbijoux), but I just keep buying and buying!

Ultimately, I do not like this stone that much, so I will not be purchasing it in this instance. And I, knowing not much about sapphires, have been very pleased with my purchases so far (acknowledging that I am relatively ignorant on the subject). I come here to become more educated and more informed. Now I need to save my money to set the stones!

 

[MollyMalone]

Yes, that’s what I thought too, but I took my sapphires from this seller to a GIA certified gemstone appraiser in Manhattan, and he was very impressed with my purchases for the price. As all of the sapphires I have bought never exceed $100, he said they were good deals.

Just a FYI for your future reference: GIA does not certify any sort of appraiser. Indeed, none of the GIA programs includes a class in appraising. So when the time comes for a truly meaningful assessment, with written report, of one of your purchases, let us know so we can make suggestions!

 

[Macky]

So you are saying the guy is lying when he writes on his website that he is a GIA graduate gemologist? I will pass on your comments to him. His company is on Fifth Avenue (UES, not the diamond district) and has several five star ratings. But he doesn’t know what he is talking about right?

 

[Frost]

So you are saying the guy is lying when he writes on his website that he is a GIA graduate gemologist? I will pass on your comments to him. His company is on Fifth Avenue (UES, not the diamond district) and has several five star ratings. But he doesn’t know what he is talking about right?

No... What they're saying is that gemmology and appraisals are two different things.

One can be a GG or an FGA or any of a number of qualifications by completing lab work and working in a lab without ever seeing or understanding how the global gem market works. Such a person is a GG, and yet isn't qualified to appraise a $5 quartz, much less anything else.

A GG course does not on its own qualify anyone to appraise anything. But market experience, finishing appraisal courses and staying up to date with the gem market does. So gemmology and appraising are two different things.

 

[Macky]

If there is any confusion about my post, it’s based on semantics from my end. Just to be clear, I took my stones (which are already certified by GIC and CGL anyway) to a graduate gemologist who appraised them. On his website he states that his speciality is colored gemstones, and he told me that the stone he knows best is a sapphire. He said my stones were lovely and a good deal for the price I paid. It’s his opinion.

 

[Frost]

Well, for what it's worth - if your guy deals in gems and is a gemmologist as well, yes, there's a good chance that he does know market values well. It doesn't make him an appraiser, but it does make him qualified to give a realistic spoken opinion of market value.

I'd warn people to trust experience over qualifications; I've seen so, so, so many gemmologists who are theory-only and completely at a loss with things which need experience. And likewise, I've seen even more "theoretical appraisers" completely out of touch with reality - in some cases with pricing lists which were self-admittedly last updated years ago.

Market experience beats theory... The gem market isn't set in stone, it ebbs and flows, changes, goes up or down due to many factors in both source and destination countries. No institution on the planet teaches and covers all of that; there's no one-stop-solution to gem pricing in a live market.

 

[kenny]

GIA does two things, they grade gems and train people to work in the field of gemology.
Some of the folks GIA trains go on to get a job at GIA - perhaps grading gems, but the vast majority move on to careers in gemology that are totally separate from GIA.
When GIA Graduate Gemologist (who does not actually work for GIA) says anything it is not GIA saying it - no matter what they tell you.
If they claim they speak for GIA run away, fast.

When one graduates from a GIA program they are on their own, as is any professional.
If a doctor gets a medical degree from UCLA, UCLA does not 'certify' her work.

In fact GIA does not even "certify" any gems, nor does any other reputable lab
GIA grades them ... even then the grades are subject to all the disclaiming fine print on the back.

If you'd like to appear well-informed use the term 'grading report' instead of certificate.
There is no such thing as a 'certified' gem.
Unfortunately some legit vendors do use the term certificate since so many shoppers are poorly informed.
They want the sale.
IMO that's a red flag against those vendors.

Next, are you really asking for feedback on 2 ct. sapphires costing $100?
That price is so astronomically low you might as well ask for feedback on 2 ct. sapphires costing $10.
Someone saying, that looks like a good $100 2 ct sapphire is pretty meaningless, as meaningless as some mechanic telling you any $200 car is worth buying.

Sorry.
If you feel that makes me rude, so be it.

 

[Macky]

So are you saying my sapphire is a fake? It may be a poor quality cut sapphire, but it’s not a fake. As I said, all of my stones are GRADED by CGL or GIC. I won them at an auction. Price is determined on who bids against you. And to be honest, I don’t care what you think. I will believe my Fifth Avenue GIA trained gemologist over you. I wanted feedback on inclusions and windows in this particular sapphire, not the price. And yes, you are rude.

 

[qubitasaurus]

If you enjoy looking at them, then I am sure they are absolutely worth every cent.

I think people are just confused, as your plans and priorities seem to have shifted a bit. You have to remember this isn't an especially large forum, and most of the members you are talking to have 1000s of posts over 5+ years. You can be sure they recognize everyones' usernames and are offering you advice based on all the things you have cumulatively told them up to this point. They are naturally going to be a little confused when you make inconsistent posts. It makes us wonder if we have offered bad advice -- because we have been acting on inaccurate information.

On that note I would trust Kenny any time.

 

[Nosean]

@kenny

For some people 100 Dollar is a lot of money so worth to discuss this stone.

@Frost

I am a bit confused... Experience or "qualification"...

Think both are important - I am a gem nerd and spend more time sitting on my toilet reading gemological literature than any GG in official courses - but you need experience with gems, compare as much stones as you can course you learn EACH day...

And making mistakes helps a lot - nobody is perfect...

 

[Frost]

In fact GIA does not even "certify" any gems, nor does any other reputable lab
GIA grades them ... even then the grades are subject to all the disclaiming fine print on the back.

This is completely wrong. GIA colored gemstone reports do not contain any grading whatsoever. They are the gold standard for diamond grading, yes, but they do no grading on colored gems. They state simple obvious particulars and where determinable, the origin. That's it. "Red" is not a graded color; "modified oval step cut" is not a graded cut.

If you'd like to appear well-informed use the term 'grading report' instead of certificate.
There is no such thing as a 'certified' gem.
Unfortunately some legit vendors do use the term certificate since so many shoppers are poorly informed.
They want the sale.
IMO that's a red flag against those vendors.

Again - this is wrong. The term "certificate" is usually employed to mean that whatever a lab said is scientifically true. In other words, that something is a natural (un)treated gemstone, with treatments such and such and from this or that locality. It's a simple term that's in use across the entire gem-trade globally and doesn't mean anything other than that whatever's on paper is held as true by the lab at the time of testing. So calling something a 'certificate' is not wrong in any way; anyone doubting this should pay a visit to Tucson and count how many genuine dealers will use the term. I'll bet anything that you'll hear "cert" several hundred times before you hear anything else. It's a simple term for a lab report; not meant as a great and important distinction.

Disclaimer: calling it a cert isn't wrong only as long as you're not making some extraordinary claims which imply the lab somehow stands behind whatever you say about the stone. If you see someone selling "genuine amazing crazy best Kashmir blue sapphire ever" and implying that the lab stands behind that, that's wrong.

I am a bit confused... Experience or "qualification"...

Think both are important - I am a gem nerd and spend more time sitting on my toilet reading gemological literature than any GG in official courses - but you need experience with gems, compare as much stones as you can course you learn EACH day...

That's exactly what I meant @Nosean - all the lab qualifications on the planet won't help if you don't have field experience. What I was trying to say is that "practically experienced gemmologist" > "theoretical gemmologist". Or maybe "theoretical knowledge + real-world experience" = qualification.

Above I was talking about pricing; the only way to be qualified to give opinions on the price (as the OP requested from a dealer) is to know the gem market very, very well. That means go through hundreds to thousands of stones from many different sources monthly, keep doing that, and then talk. I reflected on the fact that I've personally met appraisers who thought they could finish an appraisal course, go visit a few source countries and gem shows, and then sit in their offices referring to some imaginary 'price list' for the next five years without going out and getting updated in the real world. That's completely crazy and out of touch with reality. Or in other words, "practical appraiser with trade experience" > "theoretical appraiser".

 

[mastercutgems]

In my ole humble opinion a gem like the one pictured 1st; is a steal for 100 dollars and a natural 2 carat sapphire !!! If it were mine I would throw a brilliant culet on the rascal and blend all those zones together and it " might " make one awesome gem ??? But is it the " trade " sought after color correct gem to bring 2000 a carat; heck no; but for a 100 dollars and 60 dollar recut it could be one awesome ring gem for that Lady or gentleman that does not have big bucks for that " trade " desired gem...

I have seem them all and cut most of them and some of the less desired color saturation gems to me have been some of the most unique ones and I would surely rather have it for 100 dollars than the " trade " sought after gem for 4k ... But that is just the difference in people.

Love what you love and do not look at a price tag to determine what you feel in your heart...
Enjoy all these lovely things around us; we are only borrowing them for a short time; so never get focused in on what everyone else loves; enjoy what you love and never look back !!

Bravo on getting a great deal on a sapphire that has personality !!

Most Respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master Gem Cutter
#96CGE42

 

[MollyMalone]

@Macky -- I didn't see your hostile response to my FYI before I signed off PS last night, so I'm glad Frost gave a follow-up that you found useful. Have fun exploring the wonderful world of colored stones!

@Frost -- yes, "certificate" has wide use & even some labs label their reports as such (the most reputable labs do not). But to many consumers, "certificate" connotes a guarantee like, say, a brand name's Certificate of Authenticity. Because the labs actually aren't guaranteeing anything -- see, e.g.,
https://www.gia.edu/terms
-- many PSers encourage the jettisoning of "certificate" or "cert".

They're not alone in this. Before I came to PS, my late father-in-law, who was in the trade here in NYC, had (repeatedly) expressed his hope that "certificate" would fall by the wayside in favor of the more accurate "lab report". As he was fond of saying, "there's no good reason not to." ; -)

 

[Frost]

@Frost -- yes, "certificate" has wide use & even some labs label their reports as such (the most reputable labs do not). But to many consumers, "certificate" connotes a guarantee like, say, a brand name's Certificate of Authenticity.

I can sort of see why, considering how many ... weird.... people scream and shout about 'genuine guaranteed' stones they have to sell, especially on the Internet.

But to those of us in the trade, it means just a simple laboratory report - a piece of paper detailing whatever it details and it isn't a big deal in any way because we all understand that nothing past the usual yaddayadda scribbled on it is guaranteed.

I have to say that this above is the first time I've heard anyone - out of hundreds of dealers, jewellers, appraisers, gemmologists, and various other specialists I've met worldwide (including all the major global lab CEOs/owners/operators except two) - say that 'certificate' is somehow negative. I personally couldn't care less since it's literally just a term you encounter multiple times in everyday life, but I do understand that some people might and I do understand why. In any case, maybe a more neutral term like 'report' could be used since that's exactly what it is anyway, a report on a laboratory's findings.
My gripe was mainly with the idea expressed above that "ooooh, saying 'cert' is a red flag" - no, it isn't. 90% of the trade uses the term and out of those 89.9% are genuine dealers (including some of the biggest gem brands/companies on the planet - really just normal genuine people doing normal genuine business).

 

[Macky]

In my ole humble opinion a gem like the one pictured 1st; is a steal for 100 dollars and a natural 2 carat sapphire !!! If it were mine I would throw a brilliant culet on the rascal and blend all those zones together and it " might " make one awesome gem ??? But is it the " trade " sought after color correct gem to bring 2000 a carat; heck no; but for a 100 dollars and 60 dollar recut it could be one awesome ring gem for that Lady or gentleman that does not have big bucks for that " trade " desired gem...

I have seem them all and cut most of them and some of the less desired color saturation gems to me have been some of the most unique ones and I would surely rather have it for 100 dollars than the " trade " sought after gem for 4k ... But that is just the difference in people.

Love what you love and do not look at a price tag to determine what you feel in your heart...
Enjoy all these lovely things around us; we are only borrowing them for a short time; so never get focused in on what everyone else loves; enjoy what you love and never look back !!

Bravo on getting a great deal on a sapphire that has personality !!

Most Respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master Gem Cutter
#96CGE42

Thank you so much for your kind message! Happy holidays to you!