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E-Ring First Timer

jmb797

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
26
I first wanted to thank everyone for their posts on here. I've spent the last few weeks reading and slowly learning about diamonds, but still I'm pretty much in the dark.

I've taken the next step and visited a few stores to look at diamonds, but still I feel like I do not know enough about diamonds to make an informed purchase.

At store number one, I explained that this was my first time looking and was just really looking at what was available. I really liked one diamond, but it was EGL certified. When I asked about GIA certification, I was told that the head of the store was "GIA trained" and he rated each diamond individually so although the stone was EGL certified, not to worry, this worried me. The stone was 1.02 carat, SI1, ideal cut, D color. Looking at this stone next to a "H" color I could definitely notice the difference, but next to an "F" I could not. He also showed me another SI1 diamond that I thought I could see an inclusion, which once again worried me about his grading scale. Having him design the ring and using the stone he could get right about my price range. I was told that the diamond I liked was one of his best in my category and I really should put a deposit down before leaving. I declined and stated I'm sure he could find another similar diamond.

At store number two, the stock was very limited, but the sales person explained that the store was expecting a new shipment in a week. When I asked if the diamonds were GIA certified, he was very honest and said that they had a very few in that category, but had EGL. He then explained that how EGL was much more lax, and in his opinion, when looking at EGL you should consider that it can two levels off of GIA. I really appreciated his honestly on this factor. Due to his low stock, he did not have SI1 with what I was looking for, but did show me SI2 that appeared to be eye clean to me. Once again, for him to make the ring and use one of the eye clean SI2 would be right in price range. I could notice the difference between the E and H on the white background.

So I turn to the experts here. Looking at a variety of stones I am having difficulty noting the different grades. I do want the best cut I can get, as reading on here, and looking in person, that makes the most difference.

Here is what I'm looking for in a round:

Size: 1< Carat
Cut: Excellent/Idea
Color: G or better
Clarity: Eye Clean SI1
Flour: Faint to None
Price: W/ ring I want to stay around $6000 to $7000. Having the ring custom made appears to be around $1,500 or less, so it leaves me around $5,500 for the diamond.

Any suggestions on either the process, the quality of the diamond, or on actual diamonds? Thank you in advance.

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I don't think you should buy an EGL stone. Stick to GIA or AGS.
Any particular reason you want to stay G or higher in colour? And do you have anything against an eye clean SI2?
Also, that is a pretty standard setting, so I'm not sure why you want to have it custom made.

Do you prefer to buy local or on the internet? And is your budget in USD? Is that before or after tax?
 
Thank you for your response, I would have no problem with an eye clean S12, just from what I've read that is not the easiest to find. The only reason I've discussed custom was both stores told me that they could have it custom made cheaper. I have no preference on internet versus local. The price was in USD and it is after tax. If the price point is not realistic, the first I would sacrifice would be color.
 
jmb797|1403281334|3697280 said:
Here is what I'm looking for in a round:

Size: 1< Carat
Cut: Excellent/Idea
Color: G or better
Clarity: Eye Clean SI1
Flour: Faint to None
Price: W/ ring I want to stay around $6000 to $7000. Having the ring custom made appears to be around $1,500 or less, so it leaves me around $5,500 for the diamond.

I will let others weigh-in on the setting, as that is not my area of expertise. However, I was able to find some top-notch stones close to your price range + ideal specs:

1.03ct, G, SI2 (verify eye-clean)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10907/

1.00ct, H, SI1 (just outside of color spec)
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-default&id=21

.94ct, F, SI2 (verify eye-clean)
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1026

.94ct, F, SI2 (verify eye-clean)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11024/

.87ct, G, SI1
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1222

.882ct, G, VS2
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.882-g-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104071920015
 
Thank you Rocky - so it looks like if I want to stay at a carat with an excellent/ideal cut I need to extend my budget as I'm a fan of the first two stones you posted.

This maybe a stupid question, but how do you determine that the first stone is eye clean from the website? I might just be missing something somewhere.
 
jmb797|1403283880|3697317 said:
Thank you Rocky - so it looks like if I want to stay at a carat with an excellent/ideal cut I need to extend my budget as I'm a fan of the first two stones you posted.

This maybe a stupid question, but how do you determine that the first stone is eye clean from the website? I might just be missing something somewhere.

You won't be able to verify from the website alone - you are right about that.

You would need to just send an email (or better yet - give a call) to either of the vendors, and they will be able to pull the stone and personally inspect it, while you are on the phone.

I think both of the stones you had mentioned you liked come from vendors that can provide you with some sort of video, or way to see the diamond perform (Skype, etc.).

I can say with a great level of confidence that either Wink at High Performance Diamonds (HPD) or Jon at Good Old Gold (GOG) would be able to ensure you end up with a high-quality stone at a reasonable price. Many other members of this forum have had positive experiences with both, as well.

Let us know what you decide.

Best of luck!
 
Thanks Rocky - I was wondering on how other posts individuals would be able to comment on it being eye clean or not.

Now using the PS search I found this diamond:

Anyone want to offer an opinion on it?

Shape and Cutting Style:
Round Brilliant

Measurements:
6.41 x 6.44 x 3.97

Total Carat Weight:
1.00

Color:
H

Clarity:
SI1

Cut:
Excellent

Polish:
Excellent

Symmetry:
Very Good

Fluorescence:
None


Depth:
61.8%

Table:
57%

Girdle:
Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted

Culet:
None


Certified By:
GIA
 

Attachments

So you've only looked at EGL graded diamonds for color.

So here's the truth. EGL USA is not consistently 2 grades off. They can EASILY be as much as 4 grades off.They are only ON AVERAGE 2 grades off. That means any given diamond could be correctly graded or 4 or even 5 grades off. So the H you saw? Easily a true J or K. And if it wasn't EGL USA, and was EGL International or ISREAL, all bets are off. You could have been looking at ANYTHING.

So really you have no idea what you color tolerances are. Only that you want eyeclean SI2 if you can get it.

And your lady isn't going to be holding a loose diamond up to a white sheet of paper.

Color is graded face down. Which is not how you wear a diamond.

And I feel VERY comfortable saying that none of the stones you looked at were ideal cut.

So while I know it APPEARS that you've done your research.

You really haven't.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut does. That includes color once the diamond is viewed face up (the way you wear it) and ESPECIALLY when set.

SO where does that leave you?

With your money STAYING in your pocket until such time as you have done the following:

Leaving you wallet HAPPILY at home, make an appointment and go in and SEE your nearest Hearts on Fire dealer. Go to their website, and find the nearest retailer and when you make the appointment, tell them you are very interested in a Hearts of Fire round diamonds of G, H and I color.

Plan to spend about an hour there.

AFTER you have done that. And ONLY after you have done that. Then come back here and we'll find a diamond that is as well cut as any of the diamonds there for much less.

OK?
 
Also... if you are going to continue to search on PS, shop ONLY at vendors that offer idealscope images and pictures of the actual stones (so JA, B2C, GOG, BGD, HPD, ERD, VC, WF and IDJ only).

And read the below as it is very important:


The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF, etc. do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.
 
id highly suggest three things

1) consider H or I or even J color. I looked at H vs G etc, and couldn't notice much of a difference. I could see a slight difference between H and I, and because the price was very close, I chose to go with an H. But, I would easily have gotten an I had the deal been better. J looks good in almost all circumstances, and they provide awesome value. After all, the combination of cut and size with a J color will make for awesome value.

2) restrict your search to either an AGS 0 stone or a GIA graded stone that has some imaging work provided (idealscope etc) from a vendor. Its too difficult to tell how good the performance will be from GIA dimensions or specs alone

3) use the vendors here on PS. Whiteflash (where I got my Expert Selection diamond), GOG, ERD, James Allen, High Performance Diamonds, etc.....

Cut first, and by going with AGS or a dealer with good images, you can buy with confidence.

Here are three examples.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063753.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2982221.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3100976.htm

best of luck :)
 
JMB797

There are some good suggestions made to your post, however, read and then re-read both of Gypsy's posts, she has given you the roadmap to follow, so you don't get taken to the cleaners.
Best of luck.
 
I just wanted to comment on that setting. That is a relatively common setting and I dont think I would have it "made".
However, with that being said, with the size of those side stones I think $1500 may be a little low.

This is $1850
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/side-stones/14k-white-gold-common-prong-ten-round-diamond-engagement-ring-item-602

This is $1450 but not sure if the stones go far enough around for you and I'm not really liking the baskets.
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/side-stones/18k-white-gold-0.50ct-prong-set-round-shaped-diamond-engagement-ring-item-22616

This one is only $1025 but not sure if the stones go as far around as you want. Plus I dont like the head on the center stone.
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/benchmark-shared-prong-diamond-engagement-ring-2813.htm

Anyway, just something to think about. The thing about custom is sometimes you dont know what you're going to get. Get CADS,
post them here so we can comment...so you get exactly what you want and not a surprise.
 
Have to agree regarding taking gypsy's posts to heart. Cut is king. I wouldn't use EGL-graded stones as a comparison to anything else. As EGL F is not the same as an AGS F, and you can forget about cut comparisons there!

Research helps a lot, and you're in the best place for it. Check out the Resources and Knowledge tab up top and read away!
 
Gypsy|1403422686|3698477 said:
So you've only looked at EGL graded diamonds for color.

So here's the truth. EGL USA is not consistently 2 grades off. They can EASILY be as much as 4 grades off.They are only ON AVERAGE 2 grades off. That means any given diamond could be correctly graded or 4 or even 5 grades off. So the H you saw? Easily a true J or K. And if it wasn't EGL USA, and was EGL International or ISREAL, all bets are off. You could have been looking at ANYTHING.
So really you have no idea what you color tolerances are. Only that you want eyeclean SI2 if you can get it. And your lady isn't going to be holding a loose diamond up to a white sheet of paper. Color is graded face down. Which is not how you wear a diamond. And I feel VERY comfortable saying that none of the stones you looked at were ideal cut.

I was thinking the same thing Gypsy has stated... if you liked the EGL G color, you will be just fine with an I color in GIA/AGS certed stones. Like Gypsy said... the stones were most likely not the best cut, which will also affect the color. An excellent stone will appear whiter and brighter! :))

The whole white paper thing is stupid... the stone will be set in metal (and definitely not in a stark white paper setting)... :lol: ;))

I will look for some more stones (I/eye clean)... The first two RR found are very nice. :appl:
 
This is a very nice stone and looks to be completely eye clean!! If it is, SI stones are a great value! It even has MBF, so it will appear even whiter in certain lighting situations (regardless of what any salesperson will tell you, fluourescence is your friend when it comes to "whitening" a stone a little... rarely does it make a stone look milky or cloudy.) ;))

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-327935
 
Thank you Gypsy for the roadmap. I would start that process and located an authorized dealer. Just checked out the website for that dealer and it doesn't appear any of the diamonds would be in my budget. I know my wallet is not going with me, but do you believe I have find such a stone in my budget (around $6k)?

Just a question when reading a GIA report (such as the one for the diamond posted by msop04), the report states the clarity (SI2) is based on clouds that are not shown. Is this a huge warning if the clouds are not shown in SI2?
 
msop04|1403452097|3698593 said:
This is a very nice stone and looks to be completely eye clean!! If it is, SI stones are a great value! It even has MBF, so it will appear even whiter in certain lighting situations (regardless of what any salesperson will tell you, fluourescence is your friend when it comes to "whitening" a stone a little... rarely does it make a stone look milky or cloudy.) ;))

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-327935

Possible causes for concern about this diamond:

Clarity grade is based on clouds that are not shown. (This is a Si2 diamond.)
Fluorescence: Medium Yellow
 

''Possible causes for concern about this diamond:

Clarity grade is based on clouds that are not shown. (This is a Si2 diamond.)
Fluorescence: Medium Yellow[/quote]''


Absolutely Ken!

Yellow fluorescence I think is best avoided personally in case of any negative effects on the stone, plus that the clarity grade is based on clouds that are not shown in SI2 could most definitely be an issue, I would pass on this diamond personally for the two reasons mentioned and keep looking, there are plenty of others out there without these two potential flags.
 
Gypsy|1403422686|3698477 said:
With your money STAYING in your pocket until such time as you have done the following:

Leaving you wallet HAPPILY at home, make an appointment and go in and SEE your nearest Hearts on Fire dealer. Go to their website, and find the nearest retailer and when you make the appointment, tell them you are very interested in a Hearts of Fire round diamonds of G, H and I color.

Plan to spend about an hour there.

AFTER you have done that. And ONLY after you have done that. Then come back here and we'll find a diamond that is as well cut as any of the diamonds there for much less.

OK?

Gypsy - I finally made to the nearest Hearts of Fire dealer. It was a bit of trek and unfortunately all they had in stock were Hearts and Fire stones of I color. They did compare it to a GIA H. Although the Hearts of Fire and I more notice brilliance to it, it did have a yellowish color to me compared to the H. The dealer stated a lot of people state that, but it was just the way stone reflects light.

So I would be happy with an H, eye clean, excellent/ideal cut, 1 ct round. Still trying to keep the price of the under 7k for the total ring.
 
Ok. That's good to know. Here's the thing though. Something may have to give. Just warning you.
 
Thanks for the assistance - unfortunately I missed out on that stone. Looks like I need to set an email notification for this. Thanks again
 
Yes. You need to move quickly on stones we find for you. There are many lurkers and what you are looking for is something many will be interested. I'm going to look to see what else there is.
 
If you need a full carat and that H at JA doesn't work out. You will need to consider I. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5106025-1.00-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VVS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=5106025&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com You can buy this right now. It's got everything you need posted. It's a lovely stone.

And again, your lady won't wear the I next to an H stone. The stones in your custom setting should be ordered at I color so that everything matches.

But keep in mind. That one carat faces up at 6.4 mm.

THIS .95 stone faces up the same: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5306446-0.95-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=5306446&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com so the only thing you are losing out on is the 'magic' one carat weight.
 
Gypsy - I hope you realize how much your assists is appreciated. I've placed the two JA on reserve & await the ideascope. Thank you very much.
 
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