Emerald cut searching for Black Paw

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The question was raised in Trade Participation thread - how do you find a not so popular cut.
A good way is to start with the vendors who spend more time and effort on stones by photographing etc.
Searching in house stones will lead you to the vendors who are most likely to have the tools and approach - keep your search criteria wider than what you are looking for and here is an example: https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-...e=0.9&color__gte=D&region=07&sort=size&page=1
Some of those other companies that do not have photo's etc may actually have the diamond physically with them, and many will provide photo's and other help off-line.
You could also use the companies with the photo setups etc to call in what virtal stones they believe could be good - they will charge you for this, but the variation in cut quality will really make it worthwhile.

Then depending on your level of confidence or your own nature, you may also have 1 or even 2 stones sent to an appraiser for an opinion (this is better than having the stones sent to yourself because they 'look better' than you probably can (even though some of them don't have much hair )).

 

[Todd Gray]

I just wanted to bump this thread in hopes that Black Paw has an opportunity to see it... Recognizing the fact that concern was expressed about it being difficult to obtain attention and assistance in terms of finding advice and recommendations regarding shapes other than rounds - which are discussed more frequently simply due to popularity.

As indicated in my response within the other thread which pertains to trade participation on the forum, there are many vendors and prosumers who participate on PS who are quite familiar with other shapes, despite the fact that most of the advice given pertains to round brilliant cut diamonds. However it should be noted that members of the trade are strictly prohibited from making recommendations on diamonds within their inventory, or from commenting on diamonds represented by other vendors here on PS - thus threads titled "help me find an emerald cut diamond" posted with the hope that vendors will pop up and say "I have what you're looking for" are likely to be disappointing - and thus it would be better to contact one or two vendors directly for assistance in that arena.

In terms of emerald cuts, step-cuts, etc. they are often not represented in the online diamond search because few vendors actually inventory them and it costs money to post them to virtual inventory... but as indicated within the other thread, they are available upon request and as noted, Karl has spent quite some time (understatement of the year) researching what makes them tick.

So ask, ask away

 

[Blackpaw]

Thanks Garry, i really appreciate this thread and Todd thanks again for your response

I'll be looking at getting a stone in January and have picked the vendors ill contact already - most of my decision was based on the knowledge that certain vendors will provide pics/video etc. It seems ECs really need the image whereas perhaps RBs can be judged fairly accurately from the numbers?

My big worry is that there wont be much in the way of inventory (it also seems EC inventory moves slower), as unfortunately i have fairly specific criteria. For instance, im pretty particular about L:W ratio (as most are) and i would like to reach over 8mm length with my budget, but also get a colourless, eye-clean stone thats an excellent cut! im every vendors dream

It will be interesting to see who feels they can respond when i post stones for comment, as this trade participation discussion continues perhaps more people with expertise will feel free to ...

 

[Todd Gray]

Thanks Garry, i really appreciate this thread and Todd thanks again for your response

I'll be looking at getting a stone in January and have picked the vendors ill contact already - most of my decision was based on the knowledge that certain vendors will provide pics/video etc. It seems ECs really need the image whereas perhaps RBs can be judged fairly accurately from the numbers?

My big worry is that there wont be much in the way of inventory (it also seems EC inventory moves slower), as unfortunately i have fairly specific criteria. For instance, im pretty particular about L:W ratio (as most are) and i would like to reach over 8mm length with my budget, but also get a colourless, eye-clean stone thats an excellent cut! im every vendors dream

It will be interesting to see who feels they can respond when i post stones for comment, as this trade participation discussion continues perhaps more people with expertise will feel free to ...

As stated within the other thread, despite the fact that I don't routinely sell emerald cut diamonds because the vendors I work with do not produce them, I am quite familiar with them and will be happy to assist in any way possible in terms of reviewing the details of whatever you happen to find... Just for my own curiosity, I'd love to know the criteria you're searching for in terms of carat weight, color, clarity, length to width ratio, inclusion preferences, etc. AGAIN, I can't source it, which means that I can't sell it (trying to be really clear that I'm not trying to solicit your business) but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to be part of the quest!

 

[Blackpaw]

Hi Todd,

I dont mind listing my parameters at all!Im after:

1.6 to 1.8ct EC (this is more a range that i think is fairly realistic!)
L:W ratio: 1.4 to 1.5
Colour: Preferably E, would go a D or F.
Clarity: VVS1 to VS2, must be totally eye clean so ive debated whether VS2 is a risk as some people say in ECs inclusions will show more?
No fluorescence.
Cut: EX
Symmetry: EX or VG
Polish: EX or VG
The killer is that id really like to get the length of the stone above 8mm, still with the L:W ratio i like. My budget will be around the 12-13k mark, im a bit constrained by the exchange rate (purchasing from Canada) so it fluctuates.

I dont know that im being realistic. There are definitely stones out there but it seems like to get over that 8mm mark, the carat weights in my price range are at the smaller end - which makes me suspect the cut wont be all i want it to be?

That said, ive been watching GOG videos online and i hardly ever guess the purported 'best' stone! so im stuffed

and that is why i need pricescope expertise

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hi Todd,

I dont mind listing my parameters at all!Im after:

1.6 to 1.8ct EC (this is more a range that i think is fairly realistic!)
L:W ratio: 1.4 to 1.5
Colour: Preferably E, would go a D or F.
Clarity: VVS1 to VS2, must be totally eye clean so ive debated whether VS2 is a risk as some people say in ECs inclusions will show more?
No fluorescence.
Cut: EX
Symmetry: EX or VG
Polish: EX or VG
The killer is that id really like to get the length of the stone above 8mm, still with the L:W ratio i like. My budget will be around the 12-13k mark, im a bit constrained by the exchange rate (purchasing from Canada) so it fluctuates.

I dont know that im being realistic. There are definitely stones out there but it seems like to get over that 8mm mark, the carat weights in my price range are at the smaller end - which makes me suspect the cut wont be all i want it to be?

That said, ive been watching GOG videos online and i hardly ever guess the purported 'best' stone! so im stuffed

and that is why i need pricescope expertise

Great plan BP.
(actually BP is a bad blooper I will use Bp)
I have found LxW perefrences have come down and larger corners are more popular too - 1.4 looks nice. And you should get a +8 x about 6 at 1.8ct.
Do not rule out SI1 as there are a few stones with several small inclusions that are eyeclean and the saving is large.
My experiance is the best looking stones can have the same spread as a round.

 

[Blackpaw]

Thanks for the tip Garry, Id definitely be open to an SI1 if it was eye clean, ill make sure to include that in my search parameters.

And as inventory is slower to come up with ECs im sure in the end ill be willing to compromise, as i dont particularly want to wait months and months for a stone.

You're right about the proportions, the popular EC now seems to be around 1.2-3 now, if not square. I think the majority i see on Pricescope are in that range. And the wide corners - which i also dont like - are definitely about more, i wonder if its because they suit a double prong look? Id like to set mine with tapered baguettes and i think the classic EC proportions suit that setting better.

 

[Karl_K]

There are many more EC cut diamonds available than are on the virtual lists.
Which is one reason why picking the right vendor is important.

 

[Todd Gray]

I ran a search on RapNet for emerald cut diamonds within the range of parameters you specified and within the range of measurements that I find an interesting place to start for emerald cut diamonds (60 - 68% table / depth) and located ONE option which is listed as being out of Mumbai, India. Here is a screenshot, price not indicated on the listing - but whichever vendor you're working with should be able to locate the listing based on the information provided and provide you with a price (again, not offering to source the stone). I don't have DiamCalc loaded on my laptop, but perhaps Karl or Garry could use the measurements to mock up the stone and we could get a better feel for it (regardless of whether this fits within your budget, I think it is an interesting thread to expand for the benefit of PS members who may seek this shape in the future).

 

[Karl_K]

To many unknown variables for DC to help
All that can be said is it has potential, the numbers look very good.
That's about 10% of what one needs to know about it before buying it.

 

[bgray]

I think your biggest hurdle will be polish and symmetry. I had the same parameters as you to start. My stone is E VS2, 1.5 ratio, crown height 11.5, Good Pol, Good symmetry. My stone is a seriously fine stone. I thought I was settling with the polish and symm but after i learned more I have learned that is not the case. In fact my first (and horrible) stone was Excellent and VG and look like a cloudy/dull hunk of glass--it was the cut. My point is fancies are not rounds and certain things matter more than others --may famous old stones were fair and good...................

 

[bgray]

here is a picture of my stone

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think your biggest hurdle will be polish and symmetry. I had the same parameters as you to start. My stone is E VS2, 1.5 ratio, crown height 11.5, Good Pol, Good symmetry. My stone is a seriously fine stone. I thought I was settling with the polish and symm but after i learned more I have learned that is not the case. In fact my first (and horrible) stone was Excellent and VG and look like a cloudy/dull hunk of glass--it was the cut. My point is fancies are not rounds and certain things matter more than others --may famous old stones were fair and good...................

I would not worry about Pol too much.
And is you have ASET photo's then Sym is not an issue.

 

[bgray]

I think your biggest hurdle will be polish and symmetry. I had the same parameters as you to start. My stone is E VS2, 1.5 ratio, crown height 11.5, Good Pol, Good symmetry. My stone is a seriously fine stone. I thought I was settling with the polish and symm but after i learned more I have learned that is not the case. In fact my first (and horrible) stone was Excellent and VG and look like a cloudy/dull hunk of glass--it was the cut. My point is fancies are not rounds and certain things matter more than others --may famous old stones were fair and good...................

I would not worry about Pol too much.
And is you have ASET photo's then Sym is not an issue.

Garry I meant his biggest hurdles will be getting the polish and symmetry he said he wanted at the beginning(EX or VG)

 

[Blackpaw]

Thanks everyone

I'll keep in mind what you say about polish and symmetry, bgray. To be honest i put those as parameters rather arbitrarily - Ive only ever seen one stone (under a loupe) with obviously 'bad' symmetry, and i guess i just figured VG or EX would avoid having to even look! but its not something im set on so ill make sure the vendors i approach know im not all that fussy

Todd, that stone sounds great by the numbers! its a shame ECs are so hard to judge on numbers alone. I'm hoping to get video if i can - id like the added assurance that the blasted thing will sparkle as ill probably have it sent from the vendor to be set without seeing it in person!

And im glad to hear there's more inventory out there than Pricescope captures, Karl. I had assumed that vendor choice would come down to price and service, rather than inventory, as i thought they all pulled from the same listings.

 

[Imdanny]

here is a picture of my stone

Nice!

 

[Blackpaw]

bgray your stone and setting are beautiful where did you have it made? and more importantly do you have a thread on it?!

 

[tyty333]

There was a poster on here a couple of months ago looking at emerald cuts and GOG really went to a lot of effort to help him
find a stone. I think he had pics of 5 (ok, 4) stones initally and we helped him narrow it down. I know if I were looking for an emerald
cut I would talk to GOG.

Good luck...looking foward to seeing what you come up with.

Edit - here is that thread...looks like you were keeping an eye on it blackpaw.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/four-ec-cut-diamond-with-aset-and-diamxray-pic-plz-help.146158/?hilit=emerald']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/four-ec-cut-diamond-with-aset-and-diamxray-pic-plz-help.146158/?hilit=emerald[/URL] cut

 

[bgray]

bgray your stone and setting are beautiful where did you have it made? and more importantly do you have a thread on it?!

I got the stone from Whiteflash when Brian Gavin was still there. He made it for me. No thread.....sorry

 

[Blackpaw]

There was a poster on here a couple of months ago looking at emerald cuts and GOG really went to a lot of effort to help him
find a stone. I think he had pics of 5 (ok, 4) stones initally and we helped him narrow it down. I know if I were looking for an emerald
cut I would talk to GOG.

Good luck...looking foward to seeing what you come up with.

Edit - here is that thread...looks like you were keeping an eye on it blackpaw.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/four-ec-cut-diamond-with-aset-and-diamxray-pic-plz-help.146158/?hilit=emerald']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/four-ec-cut-diamond-with-aset-and-diamxray-pic-plz-help.146158/?hilit=emerald[/URL] cut

You're right, tyty, i did keep an eye on that thread in fact, my comments in the trade participation thread (which in turn sparked this thread) related to that poster - at first he didnt get much critical feedback. It turned into a more useful thread though, i hope it helped him...

bgray, no thread = bad pricescoper! JK of course...

 

[OUpearlgirl]

I love EC's and am beginning the hunt for my own stone as well. I have seen several stones in person, and many seem to be almost dead in the middle. It's almost like a bow-tie and I don't know how you would be able to tell this from online photos. Are there any warning signs of this dead space in the middle regarding cut ratios or clues from the photos? Sorry, BlackPaw if you've already solved this issue. So far this is my biggest worry with an EC.

 

[bgray]

I love EC's and am beginning the hunt for my own stone as well. I have seen several stones in person, and many seem to be almost dead in the middle. It's almost like a bow-tie and I don't know how you would be able to tell this from online photos. Are there any warning signs of this dead space in the middle regarding cut ratios or clues from the photos? Sorry, BlackPaw if you've already solved this issue. So far this is my biggest worry with an EC.

May EC's have a "black cross" in the center just like many pears and ovals have bowties. You just need to see some good pictures and make sure you have a reasonable return policy.

 

[Karl_K]

I love EC's and am beginning the hunt for my own stone as well. I have seen several stones in person, and many seem to be almost dead in the middle. It's almost like a bow-tie and I don't know how you would be able to tell this from online photos. Are there any warning signs of this dead space in the middle regarding cut ratios or clues from the photos? Sorry, BlackPaw if you've already solved this issue. So far this is my biggest worry with an EC.

video is the best way to evaluate it but ASET gives a clue in some cases.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/performance-and-p3-facets-discussion-about-step-cut-diamonds

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/virtual-facets-and-patterns-discussion-about-step-cuts

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Regarding the black or large patterned dark zones - any form on monocular photography or representation is bad because they exaggerate the effect.
Remeber that both eyes will see different patterns.
Also consider the way you will mount the stone - E-W vs N-S can have dramaticly different results.

When i am selcting shoulder step cuts I view them in the direction they will be viewed, and often stones that I would rekect face up - I select for shoulders.

 

[Blackpaw]

Ive noticed this too OUPear - that's why im going to request video of the stones i consider, it seems like the sure way to know a) if that dull band exists and b) how much it really effects the stones performance to the eye...i find that with the pics readily available in online inventories, a pretty high % of stones seems to have this band, even when they're supposedly EX, EX, EX or what have you.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Ive noticed this too OUPear - that's why im going to request video of the stones i consider, it seems like the sure way to know a) if that dull band exists and b) how much it really effects the stones performance to the eye...i find that with the pics readily available in online inventories, a pretty high % of stones seems to have this band, even when they're supposedly EX, EX, EX or what have you.

There is no EX for proportions or cut quality for emerald cuts - only rounds from other than AGS.

AGSL have a grade for Ideal emerald cuts - there is currently only 5 stones listed on Rapnet that have their grading report and 4 are dogs (AGS1-2 and from the ASET images not worthy of consideration) and the other one is no where near your perference.
AGSL's system has not been well accepted for other than rounds and princess cuts.

But when you are ready to buy Bp, we will be here to help!

 

[bond54321]

Thank you for the thread! Karl_K, thank you for the links, they are very helpful. I definitely don't want to thread hijack but I think my search for a stone and blackpaw's are right in the same alley. I will be able to post pictures tomorrow!

I just received my EC sight unseen from an online retailer. I have an appt. tomorrow with an independent gemologist to take the ASET picture and evaluate the stone. To be honest, through my untrained eye I cannot see any major issues (dark spots) with it. My stone is very much like what Blackpaw is looking for. Mine is 1.90ct, E color, VS1 Clarity, 1.3 L/W, 7.92 x 6.08, 62% table, 68.5% depth, VG Polish, G Symmetry. As soon as I have the pictures ready I will post. I am hoping to NOT have to use the 30 day money back guarantee!

Good Luck in your quest!