Expensive lesson - need help with returning sapphire to Sri Lanka

[CaseyLouLou]

So my excitement has turned to severe disappointment. The multicolored sapphire that I loved so much has a chip on one corner along with an internal crack from some kind of impact. It arrived this way and I noticed a chip on the corner when I louped it but I had to have a reputable jeweler verify before I could be certain it was a problem. He said it could be set but would be delicate to wear.

I have contacted the Etsy seller, based in Sri Lanka, and I am waiting to hear back. I have all kinds of questions like does the seller check these stones himself? It went through the official shipping process in a sealed metal box - could it have been damaged by the packer? Is it still worth keeping and wearing, carefully? Can it even be returned to Sri Lanka for a refund? I paid by PayPal with a credit card.

I’m sick to my stomach since this is the most expensive stone I have purchased although none of my stones cost a fortune.

It is so pretty! The chip and crack aren’t even noticeable in person, only with a loupe, but it will apparently make it more fragile.

 

[Bron357]

Breathe first.
Chips, detected by magnification, are not necessarily the end of the world but should have been disclosed. Look back at the vendor photos and see if you missing spotting the chip.
Cracks. Is it really a crack or an internal feather / fissure? Natural gemstones aren’t perfect.
What matters is if it is surface reaching. Carefully examine the facets with light shining on them and look for lines. If there’s a line in the facet, that’s a surface reaching fracture. This can definitely be a durability issue in that a decent accidental whack could fracture the gem. Such a gem is really only suitable for a pendant, not a ring.
I know nothing about returning gems to Sri Lanka. Hopefully the vendor has a no trouble return policy however for change of mind you’re usually out the PayPal fee and both shipping costs.
Doing a not as described case through PayPal can be tricky, unless for eg it’s not a sapphire, it’s not the gem in the vendors photo or it’s not the carat weight as advertised. Things like imperfections under magnification like chips and natural inclusions, including surface reaching fissures, are arguably part and parcel of a natural gem and hard for PayPal to rule in your favour.

 

[Mreader]

I think it would be exceedingly hard to return to Sri Lanka. Unless they have a return center elsewhere I would try to keep and enjoy the stone. Here is a thread from last year:

PSA on Sri Lanka, buying online, etc.

I thought I’d write this as a PSA mini-article that could help all of you better understand how the gem trade operates in Sri Lanka. Heads up – it’s a very long post, but it’s meant to share objective information, describe some common trade practices and empower you all to make informed...

www.pricescope.com

 

[nutellakitty]

Rainbow or multiple color effects mean they have cracks or fissures inside of the stone. (the green& yellow ones are exceptions).
A flawless sapphire without the fissures will not have the color effect like that. If you prefer it to be impeccable and it will not come with any color like that.
Most emerald will come with crack of fissures too if they don’t they are $5000+per ct.
If u check Sotheby’s and other auction’s sapphires and rubies and you can find out 60-70% sapphires and 80% burmese rubies come with minor internal cracks.
Here is a 90K ruby from Sotheby’s and you can see so much crack and inclusions inside of the stone. The table is not even polished nicely.

 

[marymm]

You say you can't even notice the chip and crack without a loupe. Did the etsy listing describe it as loupe-clean? In my experience that would be rather unusual ...

Does the etsy store have a return policy posted on its site?

 

[CaseyLouLou]

You say you can't even notice the chip and crack without a loupe. Did the etsy listing describe it as loupe-clean? In my experience that would be rather unusual ...

Does the etsy store have a return policy posted on its site?

Let me just state that sometimes, if you go on the particular vendor’s IG home page, you may find a link to Etsy or their own website. If so, you may want to contact or purchase from them through those sites instead. Now I have successfully purchased items from IG vendors, but not through IG, but Etsy instead.

Breathe first.
Chips, detected by magnification, are not necessarily the end of the world but should have been disclosed. Look back at the vendor photos and see if you missing spotting the chip.
Cracks. Is it really a crack or an internal feather / fissure? Natural gemstones aren’t perfect.
What matters is if it is surface reaching. Carefully examine the facets with light shining on them and look for lines. If there’s a line in the facet, that’s a surface reaching fracture. This can definitely be a durability issue in that a decent accidental whack could fracture the gem. Such a gem is really only suitable for a pendant, not a ring.
I know nothing about returning gems to Sri Lanka. Hopefully the vendor has a no trouble return policy however for change of mind you’re usually out the PayPal fee and both shipping costs.
Doing a not as described case through PayPal can be tricky, unless for eg it’s not a sapphire, it’s not the gem in the vendors photo or it’s not the carat weight as advertised. Things like imperfections under magnification like chips and natural inclusions, including surface reaching fissures, are arguably part and parcel of a natural gem and hard for PayPal to rule in your favour.

I think it would be exceedingly hard to return to Sri Lanka. Unless they have a return center elsewhere I would try to keep and enjoy the stone. Here is a thread from last year:

PSA on Sri Lanka, buying online, etc.

I thought I’d write this as a PSA mini-article that could help all of you better understand how the gem trade operates in Sri Lanka. Heads up – it’s a very long post, but it’s meant to share objective information, describe some common trade practices and empower you all to make informed...

www.pricescope.com

Rainbow or multiple color effects mean they have cracks or fissures inside of the stone. (the green& yellow ones are exceptions).
A flawless sapphire without the fissures will not have the color effect like that. If you prefer it to be impeccable and it will not come with any color like that.
Most emerald will come with crack of fissures too if they don’t they are $5000+per ct.
If u check Sotheby’s and other auction’s sapphires and rubies and you can find out 60-70% sapphires and 80% burmese rubies come with minor internal cracks.
Here is a 90K ruby from Sotheby’s and you can see so much crack and inclusions inside of the stone. The table is not even polished nicely.

You say you can't even notice the chip and crack without a loupe. Did the etsy listing describe it as loupe-clean? In my experience that would be rather unusual ...

Does the etsy store have a return policy posted on its site?

I heard back from the seller and he said I could return it but it sounds like there will be some kind of import taxes. He said he wouldn’t have purchased it if he had seen chips or cracks. I believe him but the chips are easily visible with a loupe. The crack I didn’t know about.

The jeweler who looked at the stone is well known on PS but maybe the chips are not related to the internal crack? Neither are visible in any of the photos and he said they weren’t there when he bought it anyway, other than a color band inclusion.

That’s interesting about color banded stones having natural cracks. I had no idea.

I actually had read that thread about purchasing from Sri Lanka a while back but I haven’t had any issues until now with a purchase.

I don’t know how to decide what to do but the breathing suggestion is a good one! And the info about cracks not always being a big deal is helpful although the jeweler made it sound like an issue.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Breathe first.
Chips, detected by magnification, are not necessarily the end of the world but should have been disclosed. Look back at the vendor photos and see if you missing spotting the chip.
Cracks. Is it really a crack or an internal feather / fissure? Natural gemstones aren’t perfect.
What matters is if it is surface reaching. Carefully examine the facets with light shining on them and look for lines. If there’s a line in the facet, that’s a surface reaching fracture. This can definitely be a durability issue in that a decent accidental whack could fracture the gem. Such a gem is really only suitable for a pendant, not a ring.
I know nothing about returning gems to Sri Lanka. Hopefully the vendor has a no trouble return policy however for change of mind you’re usually out the PayPal fee and both shipping costs.
Doing a not as described case through PayPal can be tricky, unless for eg it’s not a sapphire, it’s not the gem in the vendors photo or it’s not the carat weight as advertised. Things like imperfections under magnification like chips and natural inclusions, including surface reaching fissures, are arguably part and parcel of a natural gem and hard for PayPal to rule in your favour.

Thank you. I don’t have the stone right now but I didn’t see any surface reaching cracks at all. I did see visible internal inclusions that looked like cracks (no loupe needed) but wasn’t worried about that until now. Those weren’t visible in the photos.

it sounds like the crack is internal and starts at the corner where the chips are. I don’t know if the crack is the same one I was seeing by eye.

 

[PrecisionGem]

In some gem materials, inclusions tend to grow, but from my experience sapphire is not one. What you see as chips, are often what we call a “natural”, which means a place were the rough stone didn’t quite clean up. The cutter is faced with the option of making the stone smaller all around to cut out the spot, making the stone lopsided to cut out the spot, or leave in the small “natural”. Often these spots are not seen with the eye face up, so leaving them in makes the most sense.

Very heavily included stones are set with no issues quite often, it all depends on the material and type of inclusions. I don’t think an inclusion that reaches a surface or not makes any difference, unless it is something that is right on say a corner of a princess cut.

 

[peacechick]

My comments:

-Sellers are not always that honest, even PS recommended vendors (let’s treasure the ones who are). They may not lie outright but it’s common that inclusions and naturals aren’t disclosed. They’ll usually say they “didn’t see it”.

-Jewellers will usually disclose all flaws before setting a stone. They want to make sure that you know all the potential issues (and they are not responsible). Doctors do the same thing before they perform a procedure. If a jeweller takes the time to go through this with me, my trust level goes up. Most of the time, you will be fine.

-If you got the gemstone for a good price, it’s usually for a reason. It’s either blemished or it’s overly dark, silky or desaturated. Your sapphire has a gorgeous colour, btw!

-It is a difficult lesson but, yeah, think twice before buying anything that you might want to return. Living outside of the US, it’s never been easy for me to return things given that I’ll be out the import tax and return shipping. So I typically don’t return anything, not even eBay stuff that arrives SNAD. Something that I do utilise instead though is asking for a partial refund.

-A partial refund is what I would suggest in this case if you do love the sapphire but have evidence of undisclosed flaws. You can settle with the seller on a further discount that would make you feel satisfied to keep it. He would probably also prefer this instead of the hassle of processing your return.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

In some gem materials, inclusions tend to grow, but from my experience sapphire is not one. What you see as chips, are often what we call a “natural”, which means a place were the rough stone didn’t quite clean up. The cutter is faced with the option of making the stone smaller all around to cut out the spot, making the stone lopsided to cut out the spot, or leave in the small “natural”. Often these spots are not seen with the eye face up, so leaving them in makes the most sense.

Very heavily included stones are set with no issues quite often, it all depends on the material and type of inclusions. I don’t think an inclusion that reaches a surface or not makes any difference, unless it is something that is right on say a corner of a princess cut.

Thanks Gene! That does make me feel better. The jeweler seemed to think both the chips and crack were caused by an impact but perhaps he's wrong. I would have thought, though, that when I asked the seller about it he would just say that those are not chips but natural, surface inclusions. Instead, now he is saying that I must have caused them and he did not sell me a damaged stone.

Oh well, lesson learned and I'm just going to cross my fingers that I can wear it and enjoy it anyway. At least the jeweler says he can set it but it will need to be worn carefully Thanks!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

My comments:

-Sellers are not always that honest, even PS recommended vendors (let’s treasure the ones who are). They may not lie outright but it’s common that inclusions and naturals aren’t disclosed. They’ll usually say they “didn’t see it”.

-Jewellers will usually disclose all flaws before setting a stone. They want to make sure that you know all the potential issues (and they are not responsible). Doctors do the same thing before they perform a procedure. If a jeweller takes the time to go through this with me, my trust level goes up. Most of the time, you will be fine.

-If you got the gemstone for a good price, it’s usually for a reason. It’s either blemished or it’s overly dark, silky or desaturated. Your sapphire has a gorgeous colour, btw!

-It is a difficult lesson but, yeah, think twice before buying anything that you might want to return. Living outside of the US, it’s never been easy for me to return things given that I’ll be out the import tax and return shipping. So I typically don’t return anything, not even eBay stuff that arrives SNAD. Something that I do utilise instead though is asking for a partial refund.

-A partial refund is what I would suggest in this case if you do love the sapphire but have evidence of undisclosed flaws. You can settle with the seller on a further discount that would make you feel satisfied to keep it. He would probably also prefer this instead of the hassle of processing your return.

Well, interestingly, I did decide to ask for a partial refund because that seemed a reasonable solution but the seller doubled down and said he doesn't believe me that it arrived in this condition and that his profit margin was too small to offer any kind of partial refund. I was very nice in all of my emails and said I'm sure he didn't realize it was damaged, etc. etc. but my jeweler says it had some kind of impact causing the chips and a crack and now it's not worth as much.

I have been very careful about buying stones from Sri Lanka for the reason you mentioned - never planning to return it if I didn't like it and I don't spend more than I'm willing to risk losing. I think I'm more disappointed that it's such a pretty stone and could be an issue to wear safely.

The jeweler seemed to really think the cracks were caused from an impact and led to an internal crack but now I'm hoping it's what Gene said and maybe it's a natural. It definitely has lots of inclusions besides this and the only reason I asked the jeweler to inspect the chips was to make sure he could set it safely. I wasn't expecting to hear that it was a major problem.

Hopefully it will all work out once I receive the ring back. I'm torn about what kind of review to leave on Etsy. I think the part about not believing he sold me a damaged stone sounds a lot like accusing me of something so....

 

[demantoidz]

I have a gem with three naturals on the pavilion. No effect on face up view. Visible under x10, and only visible up close when the light hits right with the naked eye. From a well regarded Western seller - and when I asked about inclusions these were not mentioned. I was bummed at first, but realised it didn't matter and kept the stone (glad I did).
Chips, cracks, feathers are a different matter, I'd expect those to be disclosed.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I have a gem with three naturals on the pavilion. No effect on face up view. Visible under x10, and only visible up close when the light hits right with the naked eye. From a well regarded Western seller - and when I asked about inclusions these were not mentioned. I was bummed at first, but realised it didn't matter and kept the stone (glad I did).
Chips, cracks, feathers are a different matter, I'd expect those to be disclosed.

It was described as eye clean in the listing and it’s not entirely eye clean to me in some lighting. There is a fairly large inclusion in the middle that is quite visible and reflects the light depending on the angle. I wasn’t even worried about that and didn’t even mention it to the seller (still haven’t) but he is denying the chips and crack exist at all. I’m trying to decide how to handle the Etsy review. I hate to ding someone’s reputation but I am also really insulted that he is refusing to acknowledge the stone has damage to a corner that caused a crack.

 

[demantoidz]

It was described as eye clean in the listing and it’s not entirely eye clean to me in some lighting. There is a fairly large inclusion in the middle that is quite visible and reflects the light depending on the angle. I wasn’t even worried about that and didn’t even mention it to the seller (still haven’t) but he is denying the chips and crack exist at all. I’m trying to decide how to handle the Etsy review. I hate to ding someone’s reputation but I am also really insulted that he is refusing to acknowledge the stone has damage to a corner that caused a crack.

I understand. If a partial refund is still possible via a dispute claim -

If you zoom in really close on the listing images maybe you can spot some of the inclusions they are denying?
If it gets set wouldn't that be more fuel the seller could use? (Claiming the jeweller damaged it)

I did not mean to imply our situations were equal and reduce your experience, just adding to the discussion on naturals.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I understand. If a partial refund is still possible via a dispute claim -

If you zoom in really close on the listing images maybe you can spot some of the inclusions they are denying?
If it gets set wouldn't that be more fuel the seller could use? (Claiming the jeweller damaged it)

I did not mean to imply our situations were equal and reduce your experience, just adding to the discussion on naturals.

I understood your point, thanks! I can’t see the chips in the listing photo and the internal crack starting at the chips (found by my jeweler) is apparently too small to see without a loupe but he said it goes all the way to the center of the stone. The inclusion I could see by eye might be a different one that isn’t the issue.

The jeweler doesn’t think the chips are naturals but I don’t know if the jeweler could tell the difference or not. To me the chips felt sharp to the touch though.

The stone isn’t set yet and I agree that wouldn’t help my case, although at this point the seller thinks I’m making the whole thing up or is implying I damaged it myself.

I’m thinking of opening a case with Etsy to push a bit harder for a partial refund even though the seller already said no because he doesn’t believe me and because his profit margin is thin. But I would feel better to not have paid as much for a damaged and possibly brittle stone.

Thanks for the support!

 

[demantoidz]

The stone isn’t set yet and I agree that wouldn’t help my case, although at this point the seller thinks I’m making the whole thing up or is implying I damaged it myself.

I’m thinking of opening a case with Etsy to push a bit harder for a partial refund even though the seller already said no because he doesn’t believe me and because his profit margin is thin. But I would feel better to not have paid as much for a damaged and possibly brittle stone.

I would definitely start a dispute. If you are hesitant, you can start typing the case with whatever evidence you have, and see how you feel after typing it regarding how convincing it is (before sending).
If the seller has a history of blaming customers for inclusions, Etsy might see that. If the seller doesn't have such a history, it might help the next buyer with a similar issue.
I could swear there was a post on the LGD forum where a dispute caused the seller to behave professionally after ignoring a buyer's issue. Maybe the seller banks on buyers not disputing since a lot of people just let such issues go.

 

[marymm]

Why don't you just return the stone to the vendor? If you are trusting your jeweler that this is a damaged brittle stone, would you really spend money to set it?

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Why don't you just return the stone to the vendor? If you are trusting your jeweler that this is a damaged brittle stone, would you really spend money to set it?

One big reason is that returning to Sri Lanka is difficult and there are import taxes and shipping fees that would be deducted from my refund. The jeweler said it can be set and worn carefully and it is a pretty stone so I just thought it was worth keeping at a fair price. As opposed to returning it and losing money.

 

[demantoidz]

I would definitely start a dispute. If you are hesitant, you can start typing the case with whatever evidence you have, and see how you feel after typing it regarding how convincing it is (before sending).
If the seller has a history of blaming customers for inclusions, Etsy might see that. If the seller doesn't have such a history, it might help the next buyer with a similar issue.
I could swear there was a post on the LGD forum where a dispute caused the seller to behave professionally after ignoring a buyer's issue. Maybe the seller banks on buyers not disputing since a lot of people just let such issues go.

I found the thread & quoted the relevant comment below. Good luck whatever you decide. Its a gorgeous stone.

Unresolved issue with Ouros

e2the3rd, has he given you any instructions on sending the earrings back? I am curious as I had an issue with a vendor from India (Not Ouros and only something small), the offered to remake it however there was a big issue with sending it back. Basically they told me that it could not be sent...

www.pricescope.com

Sure thing. I finally tried this “problem with order” option the other day, because he sent me only one set of replacement earring posts instead of two, as promised. He responded swiftly and was the most courteous he’s been so far throughout our many exchanges.

I should have done this from the very beginning, I just didn’t think it would be necessary so I kept using our original message thread. Don’t do what I did. Click on that problem button and save yourself weeks of trouble.

Hope he agrees to whatever you decide you would like to do. Please come back and let us know what happens!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I found the thread & quoted the relevant comment below. Good luck whatever you decide. Its a gorgeous stone.

Unresolved issue with Ouros

e2the3rd, has he given you any instructions on sending the earrings back? I am curious as I had an issue with a vendor from India (Not Ouros and only something small), the offered to remake it however there was a big issue with sending it back. Basically they told me that it could not be sent...

www.pricescope.com

Well, interestingly, I did this yesterday (used the "problem with order" option) and he did agree to a partial refund with the catch that it will take him a few weeks to come up with the money because business is currently slow. I proposed an amount of the partial refund that I thought was fair and I think that helped as well because, perhaps, it wasn't as much as he might have thought I was expecting. Now I just have to wait and see if I actually get it.

 

[demantoidz]

Well, interestingly, I did this yesterday (used the "problem with order" option) and he did agree to a partial refund with the catch that it will take him a few weeks to come up with the money because business is currently slow. I proposed an amount of the partial refund that I thought was fair and I think that helped as well because, perhaps, it wasn't as much as he might have thought I was expecting. Now I just have to wait and see if I actually get it.

Good for you!
I'd check how long he can delay the issue before my options as a buyer expire and escalate if it seems like he is betting on me forgetting/letting it go.
But I am probably more stubborn about these things than most.
Your option to leave a review is also power. I'd withhold a review til you get the partial refund.