Fake? Fracture filled? Both?

[airplay355]

FINALLY got a loupe and took some pics of that sapphire. Can anyone tell from these pictures? Place your bets.

 

[Bron357]

It’s got round bubbles, that’s normally a sign of glass filled or even just being paste aka glass.
Its not unusual to have glass gems in diamond mounts especially if antique. Sometimes the original gem is too chipped or damaged so they replace it.
In my families case, an antique ring with three rubies, everyone was fighting over it when great grandma passed thinking it was worth alot of money.
However grand uncle (grandmas brother / great grandmas son) with a serious gambling problem had at some time removed and sold the rubies and had glass ones put in.
That came as quite a shock to everyone but grand uncle had taken / sold most of great grandmas jewellery over the decades he lived with her.

 

[LilAlex]

I would not be comfortable making any call based on those photos. Pretty sure I have seen every one of those features in an untreated sapphire. Hard for me to tell if the sparkly stuff on the left in the last photo is a fingerprint-type inclusion or reflection of the halo. Can't tell if the parallel stuff in the middle photo is color zoning or a veil-like inclusion or you-name-it.

 

[Rfisher]

Out of curiosity, could you please show a photo lit up and zoomed in just like you have here - but from the side view?

FINALLY got a loupe and took some pics of that sapphire. Can anyone tell from these pictures? Place your bets.

 

[airplay355]

 

[airplay355]

Out of curiosity, could you please show a photo lit up and zoomed in just like you have here - but from the side view?

Do the additional pics help any?

 

[Rfisher]

Do the additional pics help any?

i was actually meaning like full on side view - like 90degree perpendicular to the girdle.

if you can get a clear magnified photo of one of the sidestones and include the exposed girdle of it also - that’d be interesting as well!

 

[airplay355]

I added all the pics to the album below. Were those what you meant?

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[Rfisher]

My vote is something natural + something manmade = doublet of some sort. But I base that on no real knowledge. Others who have already answered have much more knowledge /experience than I.

it’s an awfully pretty piece. id still want to take it to an independent appraiser, possibly a lab too if they indicated it to be beneficial.
PS has a listing of recommended impartial appraisers to hire, somewhere around here for your convenience.

 

[airplay355]

I’m gonna drop it off at GIA after I get back from vacation. The collection of stuff was such a weird mix of real and fake things so it’s hard to guess. I thought if it was fake it would have been cut much better and have a lot less going on inside in terms of inclusions and such. The color is also so blue instead of inky blue.

But the it has those cloudy spots, fairly uniform very blue color, it’s quite large (10+mm), and seems to be on the edge of could be fake, could be real, could be some kind of hybrid like you said. The appraiser I went to couldn’t tell either way and he admitted (and I’ve since found out first hand) that colored stones were not strong points - antique designs, metal, diamonds we’re what he knew.

@LilAlex , do the new pics offer any better clues? Or is it still pretty ambiguous?

@Bron357 thats a wild story. My family fought over some stuff like that as well. They had to fight over who would get to keep the antique silverware in their basement. What a mess, all pointless stuff that no one uses or needs. Anyway, I think the roundish bubbles were water from cleaning it but what do you think about the other pics? Still seem like glass or maybe lead glass filled? (That’s a thing right?)

 

[woweezowee]

It’s got round bubbles, that’s normally a sign of glass filled or even just being paste aka glass.
Its not unusual to have glass gems in diamond mounts especially if antique. Sometimes the original gem is too chipped or damaged so they replace it.
In my families case, an antique ring with three rubies, everyone was fighting over it when great grandma passed thinking it was worth alot of money.
However grand uncle (grandmas brother / great grandmas son) with a serious gambling problem had at some time removed and sold the rubies and had glass ones put in.
That came as quite a shock to everyone but grand uncle had taken / sold most of great grandmas jewellery over the decades he lived with her.

Oh, Bron! This story is too much. I feel awful for your great grandma but I do hope the gambling addict showed how pointless it is to fight over material objects.

Both my parents were one of four and five kids and both families went through so much betrayal, pain, and loss because of greed creeping into issues of settling estates. All it takes is one bad apple to ruin a whole lifetime of goodwill, it seems. I wonder what percent of baby boomer generation families go through these types of things. So sad.

 

[Bron357]

Oh, Bron! This story is too much. I feel awful for your great grandma but I do hope the gambling addict showed how pointless it is to fight over material objects.

Both my parents were one of four and five kids and both families went through so much betrayal, pain, and loss because of greed creeping into issues of settling estates. All it takes is one bad apple to ruin a whole lifetime of goodwill, it seems. I wonder what percent of baby boomer generation families go through these types of things. So sad.

My grandma gifted me the heart pendant that goes back to my great great grandma. It is the only surviving piece from the era. Naughty grand uncle never got his hands on it because my great grandmama never took it off.
It has the teeth marks from both my great grandma and my grandma who apparently chewed on it while teething. It is precious to me beyond belief. It lives in the safe. I only wear it on most special occasions like family weddings / milestone events.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Oh, Bron! This story is too much. I feel awful for your great grandma but I do hope the gambling addict showed how pointless it is to fight over material objects.

Both my parents were one of four and five kids and both families went through so much betrayal, pain, and loss because of greed creeping into issues of settling estates. All it takes is one bad apple to ruin a whole lifetime of goodwill, it seems. I wonder what percent of baby boomer generation families go through these types of things. So sad.

my sister and i dont get on at all
but i made a point of not fighting
the only thing we argued over was the colour of the flowers and we settled that by having a bouquet of my sister's way too bright prefered colours to go on Dad's side of the cemetery plot

i hope our parents were happy we didn't fight

i gotta still say by sister was the favourite and got the ER and another big dress ring but im not unhappy at what i got
i honestly just dont think mum thought about monetary value when she was dividing up the good stuff
i took a lot of lesser value things because my sister is a snob and had no use for them
we were also fortunate there was only the two of us

the fact mum had left a list of who got what jewlery possibly avoided unpleasantness so i would definatly recomend mothers/ grandmothers leave lists

 

[airplay355]

Alright is everyone ready? Place your bets. I just got the stone back from GIA report and all.

I’ll just come out and say it. It’s natural sapphire, untreated, unheated. The size is 12.5x10.5x8.5. No weight because it’s set in platinum with a bunch of diamonds around it.

I nearly fell over when I saw the report. This was in an envelope inside a drawer. My mom almost threw it away. Everyone that saw it thought it was fake Or highly treated at best. It’s too big, too blue and too transparent but I guess we were all wrong and I’m VERY excited.

What should I do with it now?

 

[Sprinkles&Stones]

What?! Omg so exciting!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

What to do with it?

Is “wear the hell out of it” an option because that’s what I would be doing.

By the way, congrats on your amazing find, what a treasure!

 

[Rfisher]

Pretty cool!

 

[ringo865]

Wow! Spectacular news! Can you show it on a finger? (Also going back thru the thread in case you already have done that.)

ETA I found the pic from yuour original thread. Like it might be a ring with the shank cut off, or it might be a pendant. Either way! WOW! I need it (champagne taste on a diet coke budget….)

 

[airplay355]

thanks everyone! It’s very exciting for sure. I’d love to keep it, fix up the setting and have it as a pendant again. It broke off something and someone twisted some wire through the back to hang it on a chain but I’m not sure how it was originally meant to be worn. I’d like to keep it as a family heirloom type thing but I’m not sure if my mom will go for it. She has $$$ in her eyes at the moment but I don’t think she realizes how rare something like this actually is.

here’s a link to the report if anyone is interested. The PDF version has a nice picture in it. https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5221107017

 

[Mrs_Strizzle]

O.M.G.! That is the most amazing news, I've heard all day! I am so happy for you and your family! A gem calculator i found online estimates to be between 8.5 and 10.5 carats(though trapezoid wasn't an option) . I really hope you can convince your mom to keep it in the family. It certainly would be very difficult to replace.

 

[airplay355]

Am I crazy or is it something like $100k to buy something like this retail? Big untreated sapphire prices are nuts!

 

[Rfisher]

Am I crazy or is it something like $100k to buy something like this retail? Big untreated sapphire prices are nuts!

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An independent (unbiased) appraiser is your best bet if you are looking to sell. No matter whether you want to sell direct, use a consignment shop or even want to go auction route, that independent appraisal will help you get a feel. Not an ‘inflated’ appraisal, though.
It’s more than simply blue + big + unheated for using comparison shopping for pricing something out.

 

[airplay355]

Ironically one of the listed appraisers is one I actually took this stone to already. He suggested it was fake and not worth much but might be worth sending to GIA just in case. I’m VERY GLAD I didn’t just give up when he told us it likely was manufactured sapphire.

 

[Rfisher]

Interesting and frustrating I’m sure.
Everyone’s entitled to an ‘off’ day and sometimes we just don’t click with vendors. That’s ok. You can go elsewhere - or return with your GIA report and give them a 2nd chance.
Thankfully you did your due diligence and persevered.

I’ll be honest and include this.

This line is what made me guess mfg earlier in the thread - but I know nothing!!!!

 

[airplay355]

I thought it was fake too honestly. The weird inclusions and wonky cut were my only hold outs for something real. Finding this laying around is like winning the gem lottery. What about the line made you think fake?

I’ll definitely take it somewhere for an appraisal. There are plenty of places to go in NYC. I just thought it was funny seeing that vendor there after all this

 

[lilmosun]

Love these happy surprise stories! Fix it up, enjoy it and someday pass it on as an heirloom piece.

 

[peacechick]

Alright is everyone ready? Place your bets. I just got the stone back from GIA report and all.

I’ll just come out and say it. It’s natural sapphire, untreated, unheated. The size is 12.5x10.5x8.5. No weight because it’s set in platinum with a bunch of diamonds around it.

I nearly fell over when I saw the report. This was in an envelope inside a drawer. My mom almost threw it away. Everyone that saw it thought it was fake Or highly treated at best. It’s too big, too blue and too transparent but I guess we were all wrong and I’m VERY excited.

What should I do with it now?

Insure it immediately! And then have your partner wear it everywhere. One heck of a story! This pendant will probably pay for a college education if you have a child.

 

[LilAlex]

I guess we were all wrong and I’m VERY excited

Not me...look above.

Congrats -- you did the right thing!

Know that if you try to sell it, it will be a struggle to "get what it's worth." You can consign it or auction it and that would probably make the most sense. See what Lang would offer. There are formulas for estimating ct-wt but that is an unusual shape and cut. Still, you could use the average width and come pretty close, I bet.

No origin requested? I guess you had a low suspicion that it was even genuine.

I am not confident it will fetch the six-figure sum that others are tossing around.

EDIT: There, I fixed it with the worst comic in the history of mankind

 

[airplay355]

You were right I definitely thought it was going to come back as something fake. The other jewelry we found was such a mixed bag, I thought there wasn’t any way this was real.

Is the origin very important? It cost extra I think and I also thought was a minor detail (especially for something I assumed was essentially worthless). Now that I know it’s worth my time, should I have the stone unset and get a more detailed report?

‘’you’re right, the cut is very unusual and not even close to symmetric. Do these things tend to do better as completed jewelry or as loose stones?

 

[2Neesers]

Amazing outcome! Congratulations! I would second the suggestion to contact Lang Antiques if you’re looking to sell. They‘ll offer you a price for both direct sale or consignment. It’s a beautiful piece!

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