Fancy Light Yellow--- Fancy or Cape???

[diagem]

I know I am stepping on some toes here..., but lets dissect this grade called fancy light yellow....

Colored Diamonds are graded (by the GIA) from face up view..., I keep thinking who (professionals or consumers) does this grade really serve?!?!?

My opinion for a Diamond to earn its "Fancy color" grade..., it needs to possess a genuine body-color intensity.
I guess my question is the following...., If we take Diamonds which GIA graded fancy ''light'' yellow based on face-up appearance and re-issue these Diamonds for grading, but this time we include common color grading (table down/profile view) what are the graders going to conclude....?

Its no secret that Diamond cutters specializing in fancy-colored Diamonds take yellow shaded Diamonds and apply a cutting technique (mostly in the pavilion brillianteer) so the face-up appearance shows an even spreadiness of color..., but are these really Fancy colored Diamonds? GIA seems to think they are..., but is the consumers really getting what they are hoping to get? Or are they getting "modified Cape''s"??

I guess we could compare FLY to SI3 grades...

FLY is the grade in-between the less-valuable yellow and the yellow which starts to command premiums...
SI3 is the grade in-between the Included grade and the Slightly Included grade.

Sometimes I just wonder why GIA adapted the FLY grade and not SI3 grade?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

you are being prevocative DG, but i will take the bait

If people think the diamond can sell for more by cutting say a radiant vs a round brill - and their market agrees, then surely that is what should be done?

If the diamond is neither one thing nor the other - then making it more or less colored is the decison that requires expertise?

Personally I woud prefer if all diamonds were color graded face up through say 45 degrees of rocking with a heavy weighting for face up, in light that includes a little bit of UV (that is another fight for another day though).

Here is a slide from Yuri and Sergey''s work with DiamCalc which has a huge potential for optimizing color via cut. same rough - different cuts.

If there is demand we could publish the presentation in the PS journal

 

[belle]

garry,
OF COURSE there is interest in an article! i''ve read the one in gems and gemology (a few times

) but we need a fresh perspective.

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/8/2007 9:01:11 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
you are being prevocative DG, but i will take the bait

If people think the diamond can sell for more by cutting say a radiant vs a round brill - and their market agrees, then surely that is what should be done?
Agreed..., but that''s besides the point I am trying to get across!!!

If the diamond is neither one thing nor the other - then making it more or less colored is the decison that requires expertise?
True..., but its still not my point...

Personally I woud prefer if all diamonds were color graded face up through say 45 degrees of rocking with a heavy weighting for face up, in light that includes a little bit of UV (that is another fight for another day though).
Garry, you know this would throw 90% of FLY Diamonds right into the Cape category!

Here is a slide from Yuri and Sergey''s work with DiamCalc which has a huge potential for optimizing color via cut. same rough - different cuts.
I have a problem with virtual experiments..., call me old-fashioned but in my opinion the results of such as experimentation can be done on live Diamonds only..., especially when it comes to colored Diamonds.


If there is demand we could publish the presentation in the PS journal

 

[JohnQuixote]

 

[oldminer]

Many light fancy yellows are Q/R color range when graded as if they were in the D-Z scale from the side view. I think the side view color should always be applied and the deepest saturation stones be given Z+ along with Fancy yellow, Intense fancy yellow, etc. The Q/R variety could then be called Q/R - Light Fancy Yellow without anyone being confused. The "value" would still be determined by the market of supply and demand. Anything done which alters perception may have an unforeseen effect on value. The dealers are justly concerned with starting a process with unknown consequences.

 

[diagem]

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/8/2007 11:21:50 AM
Author: oldminer
Many light fancy yellows are Q/R color range when graded as if they were in the D-Z scale from the side view. I think the side view color should always be applied and the deepest saturation stones be given Z+ along with Fancy yellow, Intense fancy yellow, etc. The Q/R variety could then be called Q/R - Light Fancy Yellow without anyone being confused. The ''value'' would still be determined by the market of supply and demand. Anything done which alters perception may have an unforeseen effect on value. The dealers are justly concerned with starting a process with unknown consequences.

I agree 100% with you on the fact that all Colored Diamonds should be graded taking the side view into consideration!!! Even major consideration!
I even think that at least the lower 50% in the "Fancy" range should move out towards the XYZ range..., In my opinion at least 50% of Fancy Yellow do not earn the Magic word "Fancy"!!!

Now in regards to ''value''..., that''s the problem..., once you de-grade these light hued colors back where they belong... (in the Z minus zone)..., you kill the illusion (the magic word)..., and that is what Dealers dont even want to think about!!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/8/2007 10:42:18 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 8/8/2007 9:01:11 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Here is a slide from Yuri and Sergey''s work with DiamCalc which has a huge potential for optimizing color via cut. same rough - different cuts.
I have a problem with virtual experiments..., call me old-fashioned but in my opinion the results of such as experimentation can be done on live Diamonds only..., especially when it comes to colored Diamonds.

DiaGem and Dave I disagree. If a cutter can remove an inclusion and make a living, great stuff. It is what Helium Rough, Oxygen and M-Box have done for the industry.

If a cutter can also use technology to find out how good a fancy colour looks while rocking through 45 degreees and make the color better (which the software DiamCalcColour version does) then why would that not be a benefit to everyone?

As to your comment above DG - look at this real comparison

 

[:)]

Great topic DG! And Garry, of COURSE we would like to see the article posted in the PS Journal.

Didn't Garry post a pic of a RB M that when recut to a radiant was a gorgeous fancy yellow?

DG, the brillianteering on the pavillion for the purpose of making more uniform color - is this done on colored RBs or other shapes?

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/8/2007 5:08:11 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/8/2007 10:42:18 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 8/8/2007 9:01:11 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Here is a slide from Yuri and Sergey''s work with DiamCalc which has a huge potential for optimizing color via cut. same rough - different cuts.
I have a problem with virtual experiments..., call me old-fashioned but in my opinion the results of such as experimentation can be done on live Diamonds only..., especially when it comes to colored Diamonds.

DiaGem and Dave I disagree. If a cutter can remove an inclusion and make a living, great stuff. It is what Helium Rough, Oxygen and M-Box have done for the industry. Garry, how did you get clarity involved with color?

If a cutter can also use technology to find out how good a fancy colour looks while rocking through 45 degreees and make the color better (which the software DiamCalcColour version does) then why would that not be a benefit to everyone?

You mean find out through the technology what side the intensity is located in the rough state? Technology will inform me that if I position the table on this side of the rough stone..., i will get a more intensified color hue?

As to your comment above DG - look at this real comparison
CZ?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/9/2007 1:17:42 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 8/8/2007 5:08:11 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


DiaGem and Dave I disagree. If a cutter can remove an inclusion and make a living, great stuff. It is what Helium Rough, Oxygen and M-Box have done for the industry. Garry, how did you get clarity involved with color? without appearing to be too cheeky DiaGem, your very first post compares color and clarity

But I am simply discussing value adding which is what you do as a cutter? Surely? But as a cutter, calling face up color improvement a "modification" seems a bit like an "enhancement" and that''s a bit tough isn''t it?

If a cutter can also use technology to find out how good a fancy colour looks while rocking through 45 degreees and make the color better (which the software DiamCalcColour version does) then why would that not be a benefit to everyone?

You mean find out through the technology what side the intensity is located in the rough state? Technology will inform me that if I position the table on this side of the rough stone..., i will get a more intensified color hue? That is only effective with banded color and zoned color - the software can not do that as well an an expert. In fact this very specific (and very expensive) DiamCalcColor software needs to be used in conjunction with an epert fancy color marker - it will not replace the experts - just improve their outcomes.

As to your comment above DG - look at this real comparison
CZ?
CZ is a cubic crystal with similar highish RI to diamond and we are able to model it in DiamCalc too - so it makes sense to test the equipment with cheap CZ than diamond. But it is being used with diamond too.

This chart shows how fancy vivid yellow color is function brightness and saturation. Different types of rough diamond colored material can be optimized at different average ray trace lengths. So for darker stones the short ray length of a round can be an advantage.
But for light colours like yellow and pinks - keeping the light bouncing round in a radiant is better.

Yuri is offering the article to various journals and the issue of prior publication might be a problem. We will hear soon

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/9/2007 1:53:01 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/9/2007 1:17:42 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 8/8/2007 5:08:11 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


DiaGem and Dave I disagree. If a cutter can remove an inclusion and make a living, great stuff. It is what Helium Rough, Oxygen and M-Box have done for the industry. Garry, how did you get clarity involved with color? without appearing to be too cheeky DiaGem, your very first post compares color and clarity

But I am simply discussing value adding which is what you do as a cutter? Surely? But as a cutter, calling face up color improvement a ''modification'' seems a bit like an ''enhancement'' and that''s a bit tough isn''t it? Are all GIA "modified Diamonds enhanced?
We are talking about the cutting procedure aren''t we? In my very first post I am trying to point: FLY = SI3
I have nothing at all with cutters adding value..., I have a big problem with GIA falling in this trap called FLY..., or perhaps it is intentional???
If a cutter can also use technology to find out how good a fancy colour looks while rocking through 45 degreees and make the color better (which the software DiamCalcColour version does) then why would that not be a benefit to everyone?

You mean find out through the technology what side the intensity is located in the rough state? Technology will inform me that if I position the table on this side of the rough stone..., i will get a more intensified color hue? That is only effective with banded color and zoned color - the software can not do that as well an an expert. In fact this very specific (and very expensive) DiamCalcColor software needs to be used in conjunction with an epert fancy color marker - it will not replace the experts - just improve their outcomes. Makes sense!!!

As to your comment above DG - look at this real comparison
CZ?
CZ is a cubic crystal with similar highish RI to diamond and we are able to model it in DiamCalc too - so it makes sense to test the equipment with cheap CZ than diamond. But it is being used with diamond too. Similar but not exact!

This chart shows how fancy vivid yellow color is function brightness and saturation. Different types of rough diamond colored material can be optimized at different average ray trace lengths. So for darker stones the short ray length of a round can be an advantage.
But for light colours like yellow and pinks - keeping the light bouncing round in a radiant is better.

Yuri is offering the article to various journals and the issue of prior publication might be a problem. We will hear soon

Garry, cant ignore the fact that this is really interesting..., and who knows where this type of technology will lead us cutters.

But I must stand strong on my feet in regards to a "Machine" showing/telling me what the outcome will be from a colored rough Diamond..., especially showing me how the face-up appearance will look in different variations of shapes and faceting structures...,

It just does not make sense to me "yet"!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

what about scales.

You stand on them and they say "you are too fat" or " you are bulemic"

I got over all that when I saw the first diamond scans that replicated ideal-scope images of real actual stones.

These guys are really smart DiaGem

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/9/2007 5:42:19 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
what about scales.

You stand on them and they say ''you are too fat'' or '' you are bulemic''

But scales don''t tell you what to eat or not to become better!

I got over all that when I saw the first diamond scans that replicated ideal-scope images of real actual stones.

These guys are really smart DiaGem

Is this on of their images???

As you say Garry..., these guys are really smart (and I believe you..., really!!) But when it comes to colored Diamonds..., there are way/way to many factors to consider practically.
Did you know that a blue colored Diamond could turn grey depending only on the heat it builds up during the polishing procedure?
Just one example that technology cant take into account as of yet!!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/9/2007 6:15:06 AM
Author: DiaGem

Is this on of their images??? yes DG, it is a high dynamic range lighting image that includes the bloom or flares we see in real diamonds. This is from the new just released version - DiamCalc3

As you say Garry..., these guys are really smart (and I believe you..., really!!) But when it comes to colored Diamonds..., there are way/way to many factors to consider practically.
Did you know that a blue colored Diamond could turn grey depending only on the heat it builds up during the polishing procedure?
Just one example that technology cant take into account as of yet!!!

We work with manufacturers DG, we are not in a competiton to put them down. The role of experts can be enhanced by young smart engineers and mathematicians.

It is like watching a team or architects and engineers deciding how to accomplish a challenging building - the engineers can say "those architects are a pain in the butt and so impractical", while the engineers say "those nerdy dopey engineers - will they ever get a life?"
Or they can take a challenge and bounce off each other. and have fun being creative and solving problems.

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/9/2007 7:07:26 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/9/2007 6:15:06 AM
Author: DiaGem

Is this on of their images??? yes DG, it is a high dynamic range lighting image that includes the bloom or flares we see in real diamonds. This is from the new just released version - DiamCalc3

As you say Garry..., these guys are really smart (and I believe you..., really!!) But when it comes to colored Diamonds..., there are way/way to many factors to consider practically.
Did you know that a blue colored Diamond could turn grey depending only on the heat it builds up during the polishing procedure?
Just one example that technology cant take into account as of yet!!!

We work with manufacturers DG, we are not in a competiton to put them down. The role of experts can be enhanced by young smart engineers and mathematicians.

It is like watching a team or architects and engineers deciding how to accomplish a challenging building - the engineers can say ''those architects are a pain in the butt and so impractical'', while the engineers say ''those nerdy dopey engineers - will they ever get a life?''
Or they can take a challenge and bounce off each other. and have fun being creative and solving problems.

Garry, on the white colorless Diamonds the image looks good..., but the appearance on a white Diamond could have a huge range..., so its OK to get a virtual image..., and I salute the makers/inventors for that. (I wish I could have it 7 years ago when I needed it!!!)

In Fancy Colored Diamonds every nuance in color hue, shade, depth can mean doubles and triples or more in value!!!
How can A "machine" show me the exact color nuance I will get if I cut the Diamond a step-cut E/C or a Brilliant radiant?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/9/2007 8:03:14 AM
Author: DiaGem
Garry, on the white colorless Diamonds the image looks good..., but the appearance on a white Diamond could have a huge range..., so its OK to get a virtual image..., and I salute the makers/inventors for that. (I wish I could have it 7 years ago when I needed it!!!)

In Fancy Colored Diamonds every nuance in color hue, shade, depth can mean doubles and triples or more in value!!!
How can A ''machine'' show me the exact color nuance I will get if I cut the Diamond a step-cut E/C or a Brilliant radiant?

I feel rather guilty about the following statement:

The tecnology only has to make 1/2 the stones that would have been GIA Fancy Intense get a grade of Vivid under GIA''s color grading environment. that will make a user who cuts 10 stones a month an extra several million dollars a year.

It may or may not impress you because in his work Yuri has found that there can be dimaonds that will look not so great in several lighting''s, but peak out in GIA''s enviornment.

 

[oldminer]

From the late 70's or early 1980's I own two round diamonds with GIA reports. One is graded W/X and the other is graded Y/Z. Both weigh just over 1 carat. When we look at today's yellow "fancy" color graded diamonds we readily see how the interpretation of where fancy begins has changed to fit the demand and taste of the market. I don't disagree with the placement of where the fancy grades begin and the nomenclature used to describe the color of each grade. People only buy one of these fancy colors when they like to color, so what it is named is of less importance than some scientific color we might assign to it. It is a very visual thing when it comes to deciding to purchase. Why rock that boat?

I think it is somewhat questionable to not restate the color grading system to better define for new gemologists where fancy colors really begin, because there is no X Y Z grade in yellow that is not called a fancy name color. Might as well be open about the system just not going into those letters of the alphabet. D to R may make more sense for the colorless to lightly yellow tinted series.

Technology, including the predictive technology, will greatly enhance the cutter's ability to decide how to best cut a piece of rough with the least waste possible. Experienced cutters don't want to give up their turf or admit a machine may be able to do as well or even better than they can in making smart cutting choices. I don't think there is any doubt that the Russian predictive software will be revolutionary as it is adopted. It will be adopted because it short cuts the learning curve for new"master" cutters. It will save money as less experienced cutters will be able to make smart choices. No one likes to think they might just be replaced by a machine, but this is the stark reality of business. I wouldn't want it to happen to me, either.

A cutter combines experience and an artistic sense to get a great final product. It is educated guesswork which has a high rate of success, but equipment may raise the success rate even further. Improving the beauty and final weight of the output is the goal. The cutter's ego will be soothed by the additional financial reward for consistently better cutting. At least, this is the hope.

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/9/2007 8:24:31 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/9/2007 8:03:14 AM
Author: DiaGem
Garry, on the white colorless Diamonds the image looks good..., but the appearance on a white Diamond could have a huge range..., so its OK to get a virtual image..., and I salute the makers/inventors for that. (I wish I could have it 7 years ago when I needed it!!!)

In Fancy Colored Diamonds every nuance in color hue, shade, depth can mean doubles and triples or more in value!!!
How can A ''machine'' show me the exact color nuance I will get if I cut the Diamond a step-cut E/C or a Brilliant radiant?

I feel rather guilty about the following statement:

The tecnology only has to make 1/2 the stones that would have been GIA Fancy Intense get a grade of Vivid under GIA''s color grading environment. that will make a user who cuts 10 stones a month an extra several million dollars a year.

It may or may not impress you because in his work Yuri has found that there can be dimaonds that will look not so great in several lighting''s, but peak out in GIA''s enviornment. I am impressed... but that is a business of its own..., I know quite a few dealers that their business is only finding those mistakes...

Garry, that is exactly what I am saying from the beginning of this thread...
GIA''s Fancy colored grading environment is off!!! But FLY is out of the Fancy game (period)
There should be no Fancy "light" yellow grade just as there should not be an SI3 grade.

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/9/2007 8:39:24 AM
Author: oldminer
From the late 70''s or early 1980''s I own two round diamonds with GIA reports. One is graded W/X and the other is graded Y/Z. Both weigh just over 1 carat. When we look at today''s yellow ''fancy'' color graded diamonds we readily see how the interpretation of where fancy begins has changed to fit the demand and taste of the market. I don''t disagree with the placement of where the fancy grades begin and the nomenclature used to describe the color of each grade. People only buy one of these fancy colors when they like to color, so what it is named is of less importance than some scientific color we might assign to it. It is a very visual thing when it comes to deciding to purchase. Why rock that boat?

Dave, I am actually surprised..., are you sure where the fancy begins is fitting the "demand" and taste of the market?
I think a lot of people buy these FLY and FY not only because they like it..., but because they are/were educated that these are fancy colors and they are rare Diamonds just as the "Canary" Diamonds from the past were rare. Yes..., why rock that boat???

I think it is somewhat questionable to not restate the color grading system to better define for new gemologists where fancy colors really begin, because there is no X Y Z grade in yellow that is not called a fancy name color. Might as well be open about the system just not going into those letters of the alphabet. D to R may make more sense for the colorless to lightly yellow tinted series.

Technology, including the predictive technology, will greatly enhance the cutter''s ability to decide how to best cut a piece of rough with the least waste possible. Experienced cutters don''t want to give up their turf or admit a machine may be able to do as well or even better than they can in making smart cutting choices. I don''t think there is any doubt that the Russian predictive software will be revolutionary as it is adopted. It will be adopted because it short cuts the learning curve for new''master'' cutters. It will save money as less experienced cutters will be able to make smart choices. No one likes to think they might just be replaced by a machine, but this is the stark reality of business. I wouldn''t want it to happen to me, either.

There are no short-cuts..., I do think its inevitable and Technology is going to be a major "helping" tool for us Designers, cutters and manufacturers..., It already is!!!

A cutter combines experience and an artistic sense to get a great final product. It is educated guesswork which has a high rate of success, but equipment may raise the success rate even further. Improving the beauty and final weight of the output is the goal. The cutter''s ego will be soothed by the additional financial reward for consistently better cutting. At least, this is the hope. Mostly Trial & Error...

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

As usuual Dave, good points.

DiaGem you will be pleased to know that when we release this DiamCalcColor software it will only be made available to a very small number of cutters who HAVE expertise already. The intention is not to replace expertise, it is to improve experts capacity. Also we have no intention of experimenting - we want this to work and so working with a team of thorough experts is essential for our reputation, as it is for whoever we team up with to make a lot of additional money.

Dave this software can never make a young cutter better than an experianced one. Infact it is unllikely the expert marker will use the software directly - it is more likley that a bright young engineer might join the manufacturing houses team. Just as we see that new cut design will also mean manufacturers will probably have a new office door labeled "Cut Design Team".

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/9/2007 9:03:47 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
As usuual Dave, good points.

DiaGem you will be pleased to know that when we release this DiamCalcColor software it will only be made available to a very small number of cutters who HAVE expertise already. The intention is not to replace expertise, it is to improve experts capacity. Also we have no intention of experimenting - we want this to work and so working with a team of thorough experts is essential for our reputation, as it is for whoever we team up with to make a lot of additional money. Sounds good..., and interesting..., I "really" wish you good luck.

Dave this software can never make a young cutter better than an experianced one. Infact it is unllikely the expert marker will use the software directly - it is more likley that a bright young engineer might join the manufacturing houses team. Just as we see that new cut design will also mean manufacturers will probably have a new office door labeled 'Cut Design Team'.

Funny..., we at (our Company) have this "labeled office" for quite a few years already..., Its interesting that 7-8 years ago when I told people in this industry that we have a cut-design team..., nobody understood what I was saying...

As far as this industry is/was concerned..., Diamond Design was non-existing!!!

I am happy to hear these words come out of you...

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/10/2007 1:30:39 AM
Author: DiaGem

Funny..., we at (our Company) have this ''labeled office'' for quite a few years already..., Its interesting that 7-8 years ago when I told people in this industry that we have a cut-design team..., nobody understood what I was saying...

As far as this industry is/was concerned..., Diamond Design was non-existing!!!

I am happy to hear these words come out of you...

I am very glad to hear it DG.

But how can you design cuts if you do not already have DiamCalc? Or maybe you use one of the consultants who uses it?

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/10/2007 2:05:20 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/10/2007 1:30:39 AM
Author: DiaGem

Funny..., we at (our Company) have this ''labeled office'' for quite a few years already..., Its interesting that 7-8 years ago when I told people in this industry that we have a cut-design team..., nobody understood what I was saying...

As far as this industry is/was concerned..., Diamond Design was non-existing!!!

I am happy to hear these words come out of you...

I am very glad to hear it DG.

But how can you design cuts if you do not already have DiamCalc? Or maybe you use one of the consultants who uses it?

On the material itself..., ever hear of that?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Shirley you use GemCad?

(I know, don''t call me Surely)

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/10/2007 5:20:54 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Shirley you use GemCad?

(I know, don''t call me Surely)

Nope..., we use other technology which we developed specificaly for our needs..., but most of the designs are done by hand with some tech help...

I know you dont know what I do..., but 90% of our cutting has nothing to do with standard Diamond Cutting.

 

[oldminer]

To clarify a bit: I do think that FLY is not a better description than Q/R or R/S. I''d prefer to see people being properly informed that the Light Fancy colors of yellow are really below a "fancy" designation. However, I''m not in charge of the major labs or the thinking of marketing gurus. They have found that folks buy the company line that these pale yellows are somehow "rare". People tend to follow the leader. Its a natural market force at work. Of course, one should not buy what one does not like or want. People make mistakes all the time and we will never prevent them from making impulsive purchases. I find many FLY stones far less attractive than other equal cost alternatives, but I am appraising them and not looking at them as a consumer.

One should buy a diamond because they want to buy it or to give it to someone. They ought to appreciate its beauty and look less upon it as an engineering project or a business enterprise. The entire issue of "rarity" creating the value is a question I have often raised. I have always found it very difficult to think that the actual rarity of diamonds conveniently slots into D/IF at the most rare of the colorless stones and R/S I3 as the least "rare". I am certain that the grades and rarity are a construct of DeBeers more than the facts of exactly the rarity of each quality combination which comes out of the mines. I have no proof of this belief, but have never seen any general evidence that nature is so neat and orderly in its behavior, either.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/10/2007 7:31:27 AM
Author: oldminer
To clarify a bit: I do think that FLY is not a better description than Q/R or R/S. I''d prefer to see people being properly informed that the Light Fancy colors of yellow are really below a ''fancy'' designation. However, I''m not in charge of the major labs or the thinking of marketing gurus. They have found that folks buy the company line that these pale yellows are somehow ''rare''. People tend to follow the leader. Its a natural market force at work. Of course, one should not buy what one does not like or want. People make mistakes all the time and we will never prevent them from making impulsive purchases. I find many FLY stones far less attractive than other equal cost alternatives, but I am appraising them and not looking at them as a consumer.

Dave you are pragmatic. And that is an honest and good thing in a man, although it may not be considered romantic by many women

GIA''s fancy yellow G&G article gave examples of about M.N. O stones being cut into fancy colors with expert cutting. If some people will pay more for them then that is a market, and markets rule

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/10/2007 8:59:58 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/10/2007 7:31:27 AM
Author: oldminer
To clarify a bit: I do think that FLY is not a better description than Q/R or R/S. I''d prefer to see people being properly informed that the Light Fancy colors of yellow are really below a ''fancy'' designation. However, I''m not in charge of the major labs or the thinking of marketing gurus. They have found that folks buy the company line that these pale yellows are somehow ''rare''. People tend to follow the leader. Its a natural market force at work. Of course, one should not buy what one does not like or want. People make mistakes all the time and we will never prevent them from making impulsive purchases. I find many FLY stones far less attractive than other equal cost alternatives, but I am appraising them and not looking at them as a consumer.

Dave you are pragmatic. And that is an honest and good thing in a man, although it may not be considered romantic by many women

GIA''s fancy yellow G&G article gave examples of about M.N. O stones being cut into fancy colors with expert cutting. If some people will pay more for them then that is a market, and markets rule

Not bad for creating a market....

Brings me back to my first question..., "Colored Diamonds are graded (by the GIA) from face up view..., I keep thinking who (professionals or consumers) does this grade really serve?!?!?

....by a non-profit....