Feeling weird... (sorry it''s so long)

[anchor31]

I ran into two guy friends I hadn’t seen in about a year yesterday and I woke up feeling a bit strange this morning… I guess I need to talk about it a little…

The ladies that were here when I first came on PS might remember that I struggled for the last few months with a decision to transfer to a local college because I hated the one I was in. With the help of a psychologist, I finally decided it was best for me to leave. Monday I got my acceptance letter from my first choice college here and I’m thrilled, so all is well.

Some may also remember that last summer, J asked me if I wanted to move in with him if I transferred. I said no for three reasons: 1) I don’t want to move in with a man I have a romantic relationship with unless we are engaged. 2) My parents are paying my rent through college and they will stop if I move in with J, which means I would have to work during term or take out loans because he doesn’t make enough to support me. 3) We’ve been long-distance for three years, half of which was 300 miles away. I think we should take some time not being long-distance before moving in together; moving in together straight up would probably be too abrupt a change.

I thought about it for about a month before I gave him my answer. I asked for advice to a couple of friends and to my sister, and the general reaction was that I was “freaking out” about money and commitment, not trusting my boyfriend and one “friend” even told me I was blackmailing him into proposing. They told me I shouldn’t get engaged before living with him and that I should move in with him as soon as possible because otherwise I’d “miss the boat”. I was hard for me to be judged so harshly on my convictions and for trying to do what’s best for my relationship because I do want it to last for life, but I decided to not give up on that no matter what.

J, for his part, was surprised, but he understands that I shouldn’t throw away the chance to not only get out of college debt-free, but with a little money in the bank. He also understands that we need to take things one step at a time to make this work. He didn’t expect me to want to be engaged before moving in with him, but he respects that, and he admires the fact that I hold on to what I believe in. From what he told me, I think he was considering proposing in 2006 or 2007 anyway, so it’s not like I’m pressuring him or anything. Serious engagement talk started last September.

So, yesterday I ran into A and B, two friends from High School. I told them I’m going to the UdM in September, and the first thing they said was: “So you’ll be moving in with your boyfriend then.” It wasn’t even a question. I said no, and seeing their stunned and questioning faces I just waved it off and said it was complicated. It’s not exactly complicated: I’m 99,9% sure he’ll propose this summer, we won’t be long-distance starting September and we’ll move in together (and very possibly get married) once I’m done with college; I just didn’t want to get into an argument about my convictions again.

Anyway, A told me he’s been having a hard time passing his classes, so he’s taking a break from college and working for now. He’s moving in with his girlfriend of 1½ years in July. She’s 20 and in college. B is going back to college after a year break and moving in with his girlfriend of 2 years, who is 22 and also in college.

I’m not questioning the choices J and I made, I just feel a bit strange about all this. I guess I just wonder where my convictions about marriage and such come from if they’re so different from everyone else’s around me, you know? I like to think that my decisions are the “right ones” and that what I’m doing is sensible, but… I guess we’ll see how things go.

Has anyone here been through this kind of thing, doing something you are/were convinced is the best thing to do while almost everyone says you’re nuts? How did you handle it? Do you think I’m nuts to do this this way?

Thanks for listening and caring, as always.

 

[sumbride]

I say trust your gut! You have a good head on your shoulders and a gut that is telling you what is right for YOU. Decisions have to be tailored to the individuals and your decision is right for you and J, no matter what everybody else says or thinks or suggests. I moved in with my BF before engagement because it was right for US, though we got mixed opinions from everybody else. We''re also 28 and 30, so that plays a part too. In college, money IS an issue (not that it isn''t when you graduate...) and if your parents are paying your rent, that''s huge. Treasure it and enjoy it as long as possible! I''m glad to see that J understands that. You have the rest of your lives to live together, and as long as you know each other well enough to know you''ll get through it, you''ll do fine. The first year of living together is a challenge... but so is college. Pick your battles and live apart for now. And ignore everybody else! You and J are the only ones that matter in this decision!

 

[SoonIHope]

Oh Anchor, I''m so sorry people are making you feel weird about all this!!

I can definitely sympathize with you emotionally even though I''m another one of those moved-in-with-boyfriend people. One thing I have noticed with my friends in different locations is that where you are has a LOT to do with what types of beliefs you have, specifically with respect to anything remotely surrounding "moral" issues. For example, I grew up in North Carolina with a bunch of pretty liberal friends, then I moved to NYC for college. Here in NY it is very common for people to live together before making a serious commitment, so I internalized the feeling that it was normal and acceptable, which meant that I was surprised to find that none of my North Carolina friends were remotely considering it, even though I think of them as being at least as liberal as I am in many other respects. The point of this story being, remind yourself that in many many many parts of the world, your way of thinking is FAR more common, but since you happen to be in a place where it is less common, most of your peers see it happening and therefore think it is normal and even expected. (This is coming across as much more simplistic than I was aiming for...oops!

) But basically, I think they are just products of their environment so they are surprised that you are not similarly accepting of something that is considered so obvious a step to them, so it is probably more surprise and shock that they are reacting with than disapproval.

Also, whenever anyone has an opinion which is perceived to be the "high ground" (ie not moving in together prior to engagement), people have a tendency to feel that you are accusing them of being immoral, and no matter how many times you say, "I think it''s fine if YOU want to do that" they just don''t believe you and continue to be defensive, arguing with you on why you should do things their way.

I am a vegetarian and I cannot tell you how many times I have tried my hardest to get out of talking about it AT ALL (for example, people always ask me why, and I just shrug and change the subject - it doesn''t matter to me what you are so I DON''T WANT TO LISTEN TO YOU EXPLAIN WHY IT''S OKAY TO EAT MEAT!!!) people are ALWAYS defensively arguing with me that there isn''t anything wrong with eating meat because blah blah blah. I really think there is a little mechanism where people feel that if you are doing something theoretically more "moral" that they have to attack you for it in order to defend their own decisions to do whatever "less" moral thing THEY think you''re accusing them of! Okay this is getting long winded, but I hope you get the idea! And I''m really sorry you are going through with this, but I think just trying to change the subject as quickly as possible is probably your best bet for now, and then soon you''ll be engaged and won''t have to worry about it anymore!!!!

 

[Blenheim]

I heartily agree with Sumbride. It''s your relationship, and you have to do what''s right for you.

If it makes you feel any better, people will question your choices no matter what they are. Last night, I was feeling much the same way you seem to be, but for the opposite reason: J and I are choosing to live together before we get married. It''s the right choice for us, but I just learned that we probably can''t get married in the Episcopal church if we live together (which is something I had not thought to look into) and that some people refuse to give premarital counseling to couples who live together before marriage. It just feels weird.

Even when it''s best for you, its sometimes hard to stay true to your convictions when everybody seems to be questioning it. One thing that sometimes helps me is to ask myself why I care what they think. Often, if you start breaking it down, there''s no logical reason.

Hang in there!

 

[Blenheim]

Date: 5/12/2006 11:57:22 AM
Author: albicocca
Also, whenever anyone has an opinion which is perceived to be the ''high ground'' (ie not moving in together prior to engagement), people have a tendency to feel that you are accusing them of being immoral, and no matter how many times you say, ''I think it''s fine if YOU want to do that'' they just don''t believe you and continue to be defensive, arguing with you on why you should do things their way.

I am a vegetarian and I cannot tell you how many times I have tried my hardest to get out of talking about it AT ALL (for example, people always ask me why, and I just shrug and change the subject - it doesn''t matter to me what you are so I DON''T WANT TO LISTEN TO YOU EXPLAIN WHY IT''S OKAY TO EAT MEAT!!!) people are ALWAYS defensively arguing with me that there isn''t anything wrong with eating meat because blah blah blah. I really think there is a little mechanism where people feel that if you are doing something theoretically more ''moral'' that they have to attack you for it in order to defend their own decisions to do whatever ''less'' moral thing THEY think you''re accusing them of!

Could this be some form of psychological projection? There could be a part of them that''s not 100% comfortable with their decision, and rather than hashing it out internally, it''s easier to assign that feeling to someone else and then try to defend themselves.

 

[MustangFan]

i agree with sumbride completely.

They should worry about what they are doing and not your life.
There''s certain friend I tell that I want to get married and they say, "Oh, why so soon? Why does everyone want to get married right away??!" They don''t even know the whole story and they jump to conclusions. I feel ready for a lifetime commitment and I think the reason people say things like that is because they''re jealous. Your friends could be moving in with their bf/gf too soon because they feel pressured, that what evveryone is doing it. I have a friend that is getting married next year and I really feel he''s doing it because everyone of his friends has, and he''s almost 30, so it''s time to settle down. Or in my opinion settle. Everyone is at different speeds in life and maturity level, you can''t base yourself with anyone else.
Go with your gut, you have a good head on your shoulders.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 5/12/2006 11:57:22 AM
Author: albicocca
whenever anyone has an opinion which is perceived to be the ''high ground'' (ie not moving in together prior to engagement), people have a tendency to feel that you are accusing them of being immoral, and no matter how many times you say, ''I think it''s fine if YOU want to do that'' they just don''t believe you and continue to be defensive, arguing with you on why you should do things their way.

Well said. What works for the two of you guys is all that matters. The intricacies of individual relationships & emotions & readiness & expectation & morals are so complicated I find it extremely NAIVE & SELF-CENTERED for people just to expect you to do what "they do" ... but they do, probably for the reaason Albi mentioned.

Stay in touch with your gut & it won''t steer you wrong! HUGS!

 

[Mara]

anchor, you are doing what works for you and your bf and that is all that matters.

i also think you are being SMART about it and taking it seriously because you do hope to spend the rest of your life with this man, so you aren't just rushing into anything, or living with him 'just because' it is cheaper or 'just because' you have some time on your hands or whatever. i remember being younger since it wasn't that long ago and i was totally all gung ho on living with my boyfriend at the time, oh it'll be great and this and that. it was like the thing to do, oh the next step is moving in together! but now i realize it's a serious thing to mesh your life with someone elses. to me it sounds like your friends are just doing what they feel they should or what feels good at the time without really thiniking about potential ramifications of your decisions like you are.

anyway i hope that makes sense but don't let them judge you and don't allow your own sensibilities and morals to waver because you feel like the odd man out. i would be interested to see in 5 years if your relationship with your bf is still as strong or stronger than it is now, and i bet anything these friends will be with new girlfriends or living with other women etc. maybe not as possibly their own relationships will stand the test of time, but i definitely think you have your head on more for the long-term and they are thinking right now and that is all that matters for your own relationship and peace of mind.

 

[allycat0303]

Anchor! I'm so sorry you feel this way. Ok, I'm going to add a unique perspective, because I live in Quebec too.

Alright, first of all, I think we can both agree that Quebec culture is "unique" we have the highest rate of "union libre" in North America, it's about 53%...so that means more people are living together then they are getting married. So marriage isn't a big deal here, and a lot of Quebecers have children etc., without marriage...no big deal, no big fuss. I think that's why you're getting all these reactions. Now me personally, my boyfriend owns a HOUSE, we are ENGAGED and I'm NOT living with him. I live at home, and not because of financial reasonse, cause my boyfriend makes a lot of money and could pay a, b, c and Z. And I'm not going to be living with him until the wedding in 2008, when I'm 28. I just don't feel comfortable doing that.

What you have to remember is there is no WRONG way to do things. They aren't wrong for moving in together, and you're not wrong for NOT moving in. I don't think we should make any moral judgements, only that "this is right for me, and it's right for my relationship" Be comfortable with your decisions and your choices, everyone will have an opinion, but it doesn't mean you have to listen

One of my french-canadian friends told me this, "Who gets married in Quebec?"

a) Immigrants
b) English Canadians
c) French-Canadians that are stark raving mad

Gotta love it.

 

[ilovesparkles]

Sometimes I feel like just simply saying, people suck. Stick with your owns convictions and morals! I am also not planning on moving in with K when he moves out here next January. I have lived with my mom all through college and will for this last upcoming year. But even next May when I finish with my Master''s, if there is no ering on my finger I will be moving into an apt by myself. Until I found PS I actually thought it was move in before or after marriage, never this happy inbetween at engagement which I think is a wonderful idea. I think too many couples move in together because financially it just makes more sense. But to me and K that is just a wrong reason to do it. I am not by any means saying others are wrong for what they have done, are doing, or believe in, this is just how I feel.

So stick with what you believe in, don''t let others comments get to you! I know it ican be hard smetimes but follow your heart and your instincts and you will end up much farther ahead than those that tell you to follow the trends!

 

[anchor31]

Thanks everyone for your support! I knew I could count on you to cheer me up!

sumbride - See that''s another thing. I have enough going on with the transfer and school itself, is it really time for me to add starting to live with a significant other on top of that? Some people can do it and good for them, but looking my college record for the past year and a half, I think I should concentrate on my studies first...

albi - You are so right. I don''t judge them for moving in together, I believe they should do whatever they think is right for them. But it''s not because it''s right for them that it''s right for everyone, is it? And you might be on to something about the location''s influence. While I am a born and bred Quebecer like my friends, my mother is from a French Ontarian family, and it has affected the way she raised us. My brother and sister seem to have absorbed the Quebec way of thinking on these matters, but I guess I''m a bit more attached to my mother''s more conservative values.

blenheim - J and I might move in together before getting married, it hasn''t been decided yet. We haven''t set a wedding date or anything, so this still needs to be discussed. As long as we''re engaged and I''m out of school, I''m okay with it. Even if we aren''t married then, chances are plans will be in the works.

Mustang and deco - I think that peer pressure has a lot to do with this, as you say. The "everyone''s doing it" thing. And it sucks, because when you don''t do what "everyone else does", then you get judged. Well, what if I''m not comfortable with what everyone else is doing?

Mara - I suppose it would be easy for me to say that I''m smarter than everyone else and my relationship will work and theirs won''t. But since I hate that they judge me, I try not to judge them. Whatever floats your boat, you know?

It doesn''t stop me from thinking it sometimes, just to make me feel better!

We''ll see how each of our relationships will turn out, I suppose!

ally - You have no idea how good it makes me feel to know that someone else around here feels this way!! Good for you for doing what you think is right for you, whatever what other people say!

It''s probably not easy for you either.

 

[anchor31]

Date: 5/12/2006 12:52:49 PM
Author: allycat0303
One of my french-canadian friends told me this, ''Who gets married in Quebec?''

a) Immigrants
b) English Canadians
c) French-Canadians that are stark raving mad

Gotta love it.

lol This is funny... and somewhat true. Well, I''m mad then, simple as that.

But as I just said, my mother''s family are French-Canadians but from Ontario, so they do have more conservative values, and that probably influences me. J doesn''t have an excuse, so I guess he''s just stark raving mad.

He is a very family-oriented guy though; that probably influences him too.

ilovespakles - I would be easier financially for him if I moved in with him, but not for me, since my parents would stop paying my rent. So even if I didn''t have the "not living before engagement" conviction, it wouldn''t make much sense for me to do it...

 

[appletini]

Anchor, You have do what *you* think is best for you. Not to mention just because high school friends A & B are moving in with their girlfriends, doesn''t mean that they have any intentions of proposing. I think that these days because it is more common for couples to live together, people just sometime assume they will. I''ve been asked lots by people of various age groups both when we were dating and engaged. We have the rest of our lives to live together, and even though we love to spend time together, we sometimes need our own alone time and need a little break. You are definitely not missing the boat by not moving in, and remember absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

[Mara]

anchor, i didn''t mean for you to ''judge'' them, but you ARE being smarter about things by really thinking them through, that''s just a fact! i think you should be proud of how you are acting, like an adult rather than just wanting to play house or hang out and ''see your best friend all the time!''....because that is how i used to think about it, but actually living together is so much more (for me anyway). anyway, just my own experience....i wish all of you only the happiest in relationships but my point was just that i think you are thinking things through more than your friends are and that IS a smarter way to go.

 

[cellososweet]

Honey, the best thing about your life is that it is your life. Follow your gut. And if it blows up in your face and you "miss the boat" (which i don''t think this will happen), then you miss it and it wasn''t meant to be. If you don''t want to move in, don''t. I know how weird it feels though when it seems like everyone is doing one thing and you aren''t. But, it only feels that way. There are still plenty of people that don''t live together before marriage. Good luck

 

[anchor31]

appletini - I feel this way too, that we''ll be living together for the rest of our lives once we''ll be married... What do two or three years change to that, especially if it means that I can concentrate more on my school and put some money on the side for this future we''ll have together? In my situation, rushing this just doesn''t make sense to me. And no, I''m not "missing the boat". J has no intention to leave me because I want to take things one at a time... "Absence makes the heart grow fonder"... You''re preaching to the choir here!

Being in a long-distance relationship, it''s definitely something I''ve learned.

Mara - Thank you for saying that. I do like to believe that is is the smartest way to do things in my situation...

cello - I am realising that, that it only feels like everyone else is doing this differently... And it helps.

 

[ilovesparkles]

Date: 5/12/2006 1:30:46 PM
Author: anchor31

ilovespakles - I would be easier financially for him if I moved in with him, but not for me, since my parents would stop paying my rent. So even if I didn''t have the ''not living before engagement'' conviction, it wouldn''t make much sense for me to do it...

Just to clarify, I understood this about your situation, which is why I was laughing while I typed because for so many couples, it is financially easier to move in together so they do. In your case it isn''t at all. I hope this whole discussion on PS has eased your mind a little!?

 

[Blenheim]

Sorry to misinterpret that, Anchor. It seems like we''re actually in the same boat. There was no question of J and I moving in with each other before we graduate and I told him long ago that I also wanted to be engaged first. When the question of where to live in June came up, he just told me to trust him. I did, and it all worked out in the end.

Different things are right for every couple, and the key is to evaluate what''s right for you and follow through. It seems like you''ve done that, so just hang in there and you should be fine.

And I forgot to say -- congratulations on your acceptance!!

 

[anchor31]

ilovesparkles - I wasn''t questioning my choices really, more looking for someone who could relate and for a bit of advice. Everyone is so understanding and kind, it really helps!

Also, cooking is good for the soul. I made some rhubarb and apple compote, and it''s divine!

blenheim - Thank you!

My grades are pretty much on average since I started college, which is a first for me (in a bad way...

), so I was a bit worried about being able to get in the UdM since their admissions are resitricted for the biology program. I''m very relieved!!

 

[bookworm21]

Anchor, I''ve never personally experienced that kind of dilemma, and I''m sorry that people around you are making you question your beliefs. From reading what you wrote above, it sounds like you know what you want from J. I say, hold on to what you think is right. It doesn''t matter that people around you are doing things differently; those are their lives, this is yours.

Not only that, but it also makes sense to me not to move in immediately, since, as you said, this has been a long distance relationship for a while. Moving in and going from not seeing each other much to seeing each other every day may possibly put a strain on your relationship.

Bottom line: stick with what you believe in. You know yourself best, regardless of how close your mother/sister/friends are to you. And no, I don''t think you''re nuts. I think it''s great that you want to get out of college debt free. Keep in mind that a lot of arguments in relationships are about finances, so what you''re doing is actually better for your relationship, IMHO.

Don''t worry about what other people think. Easier said than done, I know, but that''s the best way to stay sane. HTH.

 

[Dandi]

I''m sorry that you feel a bit yucky anchor, but good on you for sticking to your guns and doing what you feel is the right thing, regardless of what anyone else thinks or does. My (now) fiance sometimes brought up the topic of us moving in together (into his house which he owns, I also own an apartment) a coupe of years ago. I told him from the start I didn''t want to move in with him until we were engaged, and that I wanted the house we live in to be OUR house, not HIS house. As it turns out, we couldn''t have done things better. At the ages of 24 and 30 we are now building our dream home together, have had a ball doing so, and own two rental properties which are a huge tax advantage, plus neither of us have any other debt, ie. schooling/car etc. Because we have waited so long (6.5 years) to live together we can''t wait, and we have so much fun!! My mum tells me we are hardly even like a pre-married couple, we are more like two little kids playing house

In addition to that I have been able to live with my parents (for free... my dear mother loves it when her babies are home!

) and rent out my apartment for the past two years, which has helped a huge amout since we are paying 3 mortgages, and I was paying upfront university fees!

In hindsight, had we moved into his house originally, I don''t see how we could have achieved all that we have. And let me tell you, we have encountered many a questioning tone and many a raised eyebrow as to why we don''t live together yet, as many people our age in Australia will move in together, engaged/married or not, often after being together for only months. That''s the norm here.

Yikes, I do prattle on! I think the point I was trying to make is go with your gut and do what you feel is right, regardless of how other people do things, or think things should be done, because only you know what is best for you. All the best to you and your FF!!

 

[jesterjigger]

Just ignore them and go with your gut. I feel the same way, no living together until we''re at least engaged. No exceptions. Stick with your guns...you have good reasons in additon to it being principle for you. It''s hard to go from long distance to living together, give yourselves a chance to adjust slowly, you''ll be better for it. I know I needed a little space to go from being relatively single while my bf was in Iraq to suddenly having an insta-bf when he returned.

 

[anchor31]

Thanks ladies. It helps to know that even if I feel like the odd man out, I''m not really the only exception!

I believe in these things for a reason, and I shouldn''t forget that. Thanks for reminding me!

 

[Mannequin]

You are perfectly fine in holding true to your convictions Anchor. There are so many couples who choose to live together before marriage, and there are still a large amount that do not. I had always told my FI that I would not move in with him without a ring. It would not have been an issue for our families, him coming from a divorced family and my folks who were both divorced previously before living together and getting married, but it was for us. I felt very strongly about not making the commitment to live together and "play house" without at least being engaged, and he agreed. He wants to be sure that he marries once and only once, seeing what the divorce did to his family before, and he did not want to jump into a home situation with me before we were both absolutely sure that this relationship was going to be the forever one. Neither of us wanted to take such a huge step without being together long enough and without the intent to marry, and I love that no one had to compromise their values in this situation. Now that we are engaged, FI and I are considering moving in together to be able to help us save money for our wedding next summer. We never would have done it without the engagement behind us. Interestingly enough, both of his younger siblings (currently 20 and 1 are already out and living with SOs, but they are both rebellious and impulsive to a fault sometimes.

Stick to your values, Anchor, and don''t let others influence you to compromise your ideas.

 

[Angela1977]

We get that constantly...why aren''t you living together first?

Well, there are a few reasons. One, I own my own house. Paid off completely. He rents a nice townhouse, and his lease won''t be up until next March, so we''re getting married in April. That''ll give us time to get a place together, get things mostly moved in, and then get married without having to come back to moving woes. Two, we don''t want to! Easy enough.
I think people question it because of our ages (I''m 28, he''s 35). They think we''re silly for waiting so long to get married, not living together, you name it. We''re enjoying being engaged. We dated, and now we''re in a new phase...and savoring this time. We want to leave living together for being married. Of course we stay with each other, etc, but it''s not living together. That''s going to be special when we get married. And we''re extremely happy about it.
Don''t let anyone else tell you what''s right and wrong for you guys...go with your gut.