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Few Wealthy Farmers Owe Estate Taxes

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rubydick

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http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/politics/10tax.html?pagewanted=print

July 10, 2005
Few Wealthy Farmers Owe Estate Taxes, Report Says

By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON
The number of farms on which estate tax is owed when the owners die has fallen by 82 percent since 2000, to just 300 farms, as Congress has more than doubled the threshold at which the tax applies, the Congressional Budget Office said in a report released last week.

All but 27 farmers left enough liquid assets to pay taxes owed, the budget office found, although it hinted that the actual number might be zero. The study examined how much in cash, stocks and bonds these farmers left to pay estate taxes, but the report noted that no data existed on how much life insurance the farmers had put into trusts. Virtually all wealthy farmers own life insurance in trusts, say estate tax lawyers who specialize in working with farmers.

These findings come as the Senate is poised to vote this month on repeal of the estate tax. Advocates of repeal have begun showing commercials criticizing senators who oppose repeal, like Maria Cantwell, Democrat of Washington. Many of the criticisms focus on a supposed threat to family farms.

The estate tax raised an estimated $23.4 billion last year. Repeal would shift part of the burden of taxes off the fortunes left by the richest 1 percent of Americans, some of whose fortunes were never taxed, onto the general population. The lost revenue could be made up in three ways: through higher income taxes; reduced government services; or more borrowing, which would pass the burden of current government spending to future generations.

President Bush, the American Farm Bureau Federation and the National Cattlemen''s Beef Association have asserted that the estate tax is destroying family farms. None, however, have cited a case of a farm lost to estate taxes, although in June 2001 Mr. Bush said he had talked to such farmers.

The number of farms subject to the estate tax, always a minority, has fallen because Mr. Bush persuaded Congress to raise the threshold for estate taxes to $1.5 million, double that for married couples, for last year and this year. With simple planning, couples with children can shield several million more dollars from the tax.

In 2000, when the threshold was $675,000, taxes were owed by 1,659 farm estates, the study found. Had the current threshold been in effect, only 300 farms would have owed any tax.

Next year, when the threshold rises to $2 million per person, just 123 farms will be subject to the estate tax, the study found. And in 2009, when it rises to $3.5 million, only 65 of the nation''s 2.2 million farms will be affected, the study said.

The study examined who would have paid estate taxes had the current exemption levels been in effect in 2000. It noted that half of all estates left by farmers had a value of less than $987,000, well under the current threshold for owing estate tax. It found that 95 percent of estates left by farmers were worth $3.2 million or less, an amount that a married couple could easily shield from tax.

The cattlemen''s group, in materials distributed Friday, asserted that $125,000 of tax was owed on farm estates valued at $1 million even though estates of that amount were exempt from tax.

Jay Truitt, vice president for government affairs at the cattlemen''s group, said on Friday that the Congressional study was "a fairly comprehensive piece of information." He did not dispute the estimates of the shrinking number of farms affected by the estate tax or the small number lacking enough liquid assets to pay taxes.

But, Mr. Truitt said, the study did not examine the effect of using liquid assets to pay estate taxes. When such liquid assets are diminished, he said, a cattle operation is starved for capital and can "go years not making a profit," which means fewer jobs.

Neil E. Harl, an economics professor at Iowa State University whose expertise in estate tax planning for farmers has made him a household name in the grain belt, said many Americans had a false impression that the estate tax was destroying family farming.

He said the Congressional study "adds to the weight of the evidence that this is a myth that has been well spun."

"Farms, in particular," Mr. Harl said, "are not in jeopardy because of estate taxes."

Michael J. Graetz, a professor at Yale Law School who was a tax policy official in the administration of President George Bush, said repeal was primarily a benefit to people with large estates held in stocks and other securities, not to farmers.

Professor Graetz is a co-author of "Death by a Thousand Cuts," a study of how estate tax repeal became a political issue. He said that rather than repeal the tax, Congress should raise the threshold to as much as $5 million, double that for married couples, and keep rates at or near current levels.

Because of details in the repeal bill, it would also force a large majority of farms and small businesses to pay larger tax bills in the future, said John Buckley, the chief tax lawyer for Democrats on the House Ways and Means Committee. Mr. Buckley criticized farm and small-business groups as not explaining to their members that the repeal as written would cost them money while primarily benefiting those with vast fortunes.
 
Whatever.
Relatives of mine had to sell a large chunk of the family farm to pay estate taxes last year.

The developers buying up the farm land have driven prices beyond what farming would ever support.
IE: you cant pay the mortgage on what farming the land brings in.

This has forced a lot of family farms to be sold off to developers.

Without the farm property tax exemptions they would have owed more in property taxes than the land earned.

When land tax value is set as development land instead of the farmland it is the farmers are getting screwed royally.

Then when it is time to develop it the developers steal it using eminent domain at farmland prices instead of the development property prices so the farmers are getting it from all directions.

Family farmers are f@#$%^ in todays world.
 
Date: 7/10/2005 10:16:25 PM
Author: Feydakin
Yup.. The land out here is going for development as well.. When we moved here there were 6 houses on our road with an average value of $150k.. There are now 22 houses here with the avg value pushed up to nearly $300k.. And the farmer down the road just sold off 180 acres of farmland so he could keep the rest.. And they started construction on 200 houses last month..


We went from living in the middle of nothing but cornfields to having more traffic on our little 2 lane road running 60 mph (it''s out in the country after all so who cares about how fast you go)than I ever saw when I lived in town.. We are already looking for a farm to buy even further out of town with more land that we can call ours and be left alone..


BTW, at auction the developers bought the open farmland across the street for $14k acre / 20 acres, $22k acre / 10 (2 lots) acres, and a massive $32k for a single acre (5 lots) to close the block.. For those of us that wanted to buy the land to keep it open space it just got to be nuts..


And for the record, ''eastate taxes'' and ''death taxes'' are one of th emost hideous forms of tax that we have to pay..

Nice anecdotes. Why don''t you both submit your material to the author of the above article so it can be properly investigated and corrected?

The point of this article is that changes in the estate taxes largely benefit not those who own property (the family farm), but those whose assets are in stocks and bonds. And that''s what Dubya''s been about all along, right, giving a big handout to the uberwealthy folks that he hangs with.

You''re being scammed. Please, for the good of the entire planet, read and open up your mind to that idea.
 
I can personally attest to how incredibly horrible estate taxes are.
I can''t think of anything beneficial to them. It''s like taking 50% of someone''s money just because they died.
 
Date: 7/14/2005 10:01:30 AM
Author: Feydakin

Date: 7/14/2005 9:45:18 AM
Author: Richard Hughes
You''re being scammed. Please, for the good of the entire planet, read and open up your mind to that idea.
And these types of comments are why I don''t like talking with you.. You are convinced that YOU are right and I am wrong when we simply disagree.. Estate taxes and Death taxes are taxes designed to punish success.. Nothing more..

You tend to assume that anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant and unread, as represented by your quote above.. Perhaps, just perhaps, that isn''t the case and that I am quite well read and have simply come to a different conclusion than you have.. So, for the good of the planet, please, stop being so damned arrogant..
Don''t you know he knows the TRUTH. Can''t you accept that by now?
20.gif


Like Amanda, I too witnessed first hand what estate taxes can do to a family. Small family businesses are at great risk. You can''t put a 1.7 million dollar piece of equipment in trust - yet it is an assest at death.

So Richard, before you regurgitate your half assed crap - why don''t you get out and ACTUALLY talk to people who have dealt with estate taxes.

Yes, it punishes success. We''ve been taxed all our life on our hard earned money. So, when I die they want to tax me again at a rate of 50% - the government has already done that in the form of fed,state & fica tax. The current rate of exception is around 1.5 million. I would NOT consider that RICH in any way shape or form by the time all assets (house) is added up.
 
f&i hit it on the head when she mentioned trusts.
The very rich never pay it because they have planners that work around it for them.
Its people that are property rich and cash poor who get hit the worst by it.
Farmers being one group and small manufacturing companies the second hardest hit.
Its going to get worse 1.5 million is a small house some places so more and more people are going to get riped off by this tax the longer its on the books.
 
Date: 7/14/2005 10:01:30 AM
Author: Feydakin
Date: 7/14/2005 9:45:18 AM

Author: Richard Hughes

You're being scammed. Please, for the good of the entire planet, read and open up your mind to that idea.

And these types of comments are why I don't like talking with you.. You are convinced that YOU are right and I am wrong when we simply disagree.. Estate taxes and Death taxes are taxes designed to punish success.. Nothing more..


You tend to assume that anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant and unread, as represented by your quote above.. Perhaps, just perhaps, that isn't the case and that I am quite well read and have simply come to a different conclusion than you have.. So, for the good of the planet, please, stop being so damned arrogant..

Let's try this again. The article is not about the pros or cons of estate taxes; it is about the justification that BushCo. has used to argue for their abolishment/modification.

No one likes paying taxes, not me, not you, none of us. But in my opinion, the reaction to this article is a nice illustration of how successful the smoke-and-mirrors approach of BushCo is. With BushCo, it's almost always: "How can we make more money?" One way is to eliminate the estate tax, which falls largely on the BushCo constituency, i.e., the uberwealthy. But if they pitched this as: "We are gonna dump a tax that falls largely on the superrich," it would not fly. Thus they pitch it as: "We're gonna get rid of a tax that hurts families, that causes families to lose their farms."

I wonder if some of the respondants even read the article? Here's the conclusion:

"Professor Graetz is a co-author of "Death by a Thousand Cuts," a study of how estate tax repeal became a political issue. He said that rather than repeal the tax, Congress should raise the threshold to as much as $5 million, double that for married couples, and keep rates at or near current levels.

"Because of details in the repeal bill, it would also force a large majority of farms and small businesses to pay larger tax bills in the future, said John Buckley, the chief tax lawyer for Democrats on the House Ways and Means Committee. Mr. Buckley criticized farm and small-business groups as not explaining to their members that the repeal as written would cost them money while primarily benefiting those with vast fortunes."

I stand by my statement. We are being scammed. BushCo. is scamming each and every one of us. And they do it so well, that many of us don't even know our pockets are being picked.

I beg all of you again: put aside the personal attacks. We don't need this. We are all on the same team.
 
style="WIDTH: 102.16%; HEIGHT: 680px">Date: 7/14/2005 2:12:12 PM
Author: Feydakin

style="WIDTH: 100.46%; HEIGHT: 476px">Date: 7/14/2005 1:50:49 PM
Author: Richard Hughes

Let''s try this again. The article is not about the pros or cons of estate taxes; it is about the justification that BushCo. has used to argue for their abolishment/modification.

No one likes paying taxes, not me, not you, none of us. But in my opinion, the reaction to this article is a nice illustration of how successful the smoke-and-mirrors approach of BushCo is. With BushCo, it''s almost always: ''How can we make more money?'' One way is to eliminate the estate tax, which falls largely on the BushCo constituency, i.e., the uberwealthy. But if they pitched this as: ''We are gonna dump a tax that falls largely on the superrich,'' it would not fly. Thus they pitch it as: ''We''re gonna get rid of a tax that hurts families, that causes families to lose their farms.''

I wonder if some of the respondants even read the article? Here''s the conclusion:

''Professor Graetz is a co-author of ''Death by a Thousand Cuts,'' a study of how estate tax repeal became a political issue. He said that rather than repeal the tax, Congress should raise the threshold to as much as $5 million, double that for married couples, and keep rates at or near current levels.

''Because of details in the repeal bill, it would also force a large majority of farms and small businesses to pay larger tax bills in the future, said John Buckley, the chief tax lawyer for Democrats on the House Ways and Means Committee. Mr. Buckley criticized farm and small-business groups as not explaining to their members that the repeal as written would cost them money while primarily benefiting those with vast fortunes.''

I stand by my statement. We are being scammed. BushCo. is scamming each and every one of us. And they do it so well, that many of us don''t even know our pockets are being picked.

I beg all of you again: put aside the personal attacks. We don''t need this. We are all on the same team.
Richard.. You attacked first then call for us to stop?? That is rich, and completely expected from you..

I don''t care what the justification is for reducing the Death tax.. It could be because the death tax is pink and we all love pink.. I really don''t care.. I just want it gone, and if telling a few morons in politics that it''s to save the small farms, then I''m all for it..

And for the record, I grew up very poor.. Many meals were white box mac and cheese like substance with a hot dog cut up into it.. I bust my ass to get where I am and I don''t think that it''s fair that when I die all my hard work gets cut in half when it should go to my child.. I am FAR from UBDER WEALTHY but my goal is to BE UBER WEALTHY and I am working damned hard to get there.. The entire tax should be removed.. That money has been earned and taxed so many times that taking half of it again feels like punishment for working hard..
Right on!
 
I don''t really have a lot to add here because Steve is handling this one quite well.

I also don''t want oversimplify the issue too much, because it isn''t quite this easy and the taxation of individuals is not my speciality.

It is difficult to find any sort of tax cut that doesn''t disproportionately affect the rich. By far and away, the wealthiest Americans pay the most in taxes. I read a statistic somewhere reputable but can''t access it now. I''ll use ranges but don''t hold me to the numbers--it was equally startling. Something like the wealthiest 5-10% of Americans pay 80-90% of the individual tax revenues. Any tax cut will affect them more because they pay more!

Repealing the death tax will have a greater impact on the poor, rather than the wealthy (even if it has a great $$ impact on the wealthy). When I was in grad school, we were studying someone (I seem to recall it was Sam Walton) who gave a bunch of his assets to his children before he died because it was more advantageous because of estate taxes. The wealthy have the resources to do stuff like that. Farmers do not, especially because many of them don''t have liquid assets to get rid of in the first place.
 
What do you do when you repeal that tax? BushCo. have already been running record deficits. How do we get the money to support these military adventures? I''d be happy to hear your solutions. And feel free to scream and call me an ass. I can take it.
 
Date: 7/14/2005 1:50:49 PM
Author: Richard Hughes
Date: 7/14/2005 10:01:30 AM

I beg all of you again: put aside the personal attacks. We don''t need this. We are all on the same team.
Sorry Sir I dont want you on my team.
 
Now that''s what I like to see, a discussion of issues. And I agree with most everything Steve said. We''re really not that far apart on the issues.

A good friend of mine (a jeweler) has put his entire business on hold to work towards a national sales tax. I love the idea, for precisely the reasons Steve has stated. If anyone is interested, I''ll hook you up with him.
 
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