FILs Behaving Badly

[brendaman]

I''ve written before about my FIL situation. FBIL is a mean, nasty sort, and my FILs seem to support/reinforce his behavior (because he''s had a hard life, blah, blah blah). FBIL was demoted from Best Man. I really didn''t even want FBIL in the wedding party, but FI and I compromised. FI wants his father to be BM and FBIL can be a Groomsman. My sister will be MOH, and that''s our wedding party. Small and sweet, or so we thought.

Well, a few weeks ago, FI sits down with his parents to tell them his decision, and it did not go well. They were very "hostile". They said that a groom''s father can''t be BM (yeah, like 80+ year-olds would be an authority on what is done at weddings). FMIL says she doesn''t want to walk down the aisle by herself. It was just an attack fest of pettiness with FI on the defensive. Yes, they pressed his buttons, and even after weeks of practicing what to say, he could not convince them to respect his wishes for his wedding. The next day, FI met with his brother to tell him the same news, and it also did not go well.

FI has to have surgery (to fix a kink in his small intestine) a few days after the 4th of July. FILs keep saying, "let''s discuss it after your surgery". What''s to discuss?!

Unfortunately, FI did blurt out that I posted our situation online, so now FILs keep saying to him that they are "humilliated", because *I* went online and we probably also have told our close friends, etc. They believe that this should have just been kept "in the family". Clearly, we''re dealing with unreasonnable, damaged and negative people.

We keep going back and forth on our next move. FI wants us to meet with his parents with the claim that I can explain to them details of the wedding planning (e.g. that FMIL would not be walking down the aisle alone). I tell FI that things will probably get worse wtih FILs telling him that they would not be going to the wedding. It''s probably the last bit of influence they have in the hopes of getting what they want -- to make the nasty FBIL as BM of our wedding.

We tried to get outside help (the rabbi and therapist) to help us deal with this situation, but it is not us who needs help! We''ve just been living with this for too long that we can''t see too clearly anymore. FI is very ashamed about his family''s behavior and even feels some kind of relief at the thought that his parents and brother may not be at the wedding. What should we do?

 

[Smurfysmiles]

Are they helping you pay for the wedding at all? Maybe this will be something you might end up having to give in on
Otherwise if your fi cannot be direct with them by himself, maybe you should go with him to talk to them again?

Also *dust* that the surgery goes well

 

[brooklyngirl]

Sorry your ILs are being a pain

.

I think the issue here is that FI is allowing a discussion to even take place. I would just tell them that this is how it''s going to be and, end the conversation by either leaving, or saying that there is no discussion and sticking to it.

 

[tyty333]

Date: 6/18/2009 8:06:54 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
Sorry your ILs are being a pain

.

I think the issue here is that FI is allowing a discussion to even take place. I would just tell them that this is how it''s going to be and, end the conversation by either leaving, or saying that there is no discussion and sticking to it.

Agree...and if the FFIL doesnt want to be the best man then he is out too (along with BIL). Go with the bare
minimum...you''ll be happier!

 

[Sabine]

I have to say, I''ve never heard of a father being the bm, and for someone who is of an older and generally more conservative generation, this might be hard for them to accept. While they should have no say in whether your fbil is bm, if your fil doesn''t want to do it, you probably shouldn''t try to force the issue.

I know it''s hard, but your parents/il''s probably have a lot of their friends and family coming to the wedding, and as much as you think of it as YOUR day, it does sorta reflect on them. I could see your MIL''s point about it being awkward for her to be watching the wedding with her husband being part of the wedding but not her.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Ugh sorry to hear about that Brendaman.

It sounds like your FILs are being pains in the butt - but good for you and your FI for standing up to them!

FYI: I think it''s regional, but it IS perfectly acceptable to have the groom''s dad be the BM (my BF plans to ask his dad to be BM when we get married, and it''s fairly common in the part of the South his family is from).

 

[JerseyGrl81]

I am sorry you are having trouble with your FIL. I think that if your fiance''s father doesn''t want to be the best man in your wedding you shouldn''t force him.

 

[brendaman]

I forgot to say that I'm paying for the wedding. FI's business is not doing that well, but he's offered to pay for the rehearsal dinner and brunch.

IMHO, FBIL seems to be the most "favored" child (he's older and there are only the two boys in the family). The parents want FBIL as Best Man, and it doesn't seem to matter what WE want. When the subject of the wedding comes up, FMIL asks FI if his brother could be BM. It's to a point where FI doesn't bring up the "W" word, but then he's chastised for not telling them anything. We can't win; we can't make them understand.

I'd like it resolved already and tell them that they need to accept our decision, but I guess we just need to be patient. We hope they'll get there to seeing that it's not their wedding!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Okay...

I have read all your posts on this, and while I may fall in the minority here...I think you're going about this all wrong.

Planning a wedding should be a mostly happy occasion. I'm not saying it shouldn't have pit falls, but it shouldn't be a war. Judging by your ages, I have to admit I'm surprised that you're having such a tug-of-war. You're old enough to put it all in prespective. Is stressing out his elderly parents worth a party? No. Is it worth damaging your relationship with them? No. Sometimes you have to put people into catagories for your own sanity...meaning, if they are "sticks in the mud" stop trying to force them into being willing participants. Go with it. Point them in the direction, stop giving options. My grandmother is in her 80's and I cannot begin to imagine engaging her in this type of thing. I know my grandmother needs to be tended to with kid gloves...so I'm imagining that most elderly people need to be treated the same way. You cannot engage them in a battle of logistics.

As far as them feeling "humiliated"...well, they probably are. I'm not sure what their level of familiarity is with online forums, or the internet in general...but knowing that you've laid it all out for complete strangers is probably stressful for them. They do have pride, you know. I've posted about personal issues...and while it's never backfired on me in real life...online can be a small world and sometimes it's easy to forget that. I think that while it's frusterating and venting is good for stress levels--you now need to respect their wishes for privacy. The want this to be a family issue, which IMO is understandable. If you're going to post...be sure that anything you're willing to post here you'd be willing to say face to face. If you're censoring yourself that way, then nothing will ever be a surprise.

I guess my question for you is...what's their happiness worth to you? Considering a wedding is a day and a marriage is a lifetime...which event do you want to be more peaceful? If your priority is having a perfect wedding your way, then stand your ground--don't mince words, put on your big girl pants confront the issue head on. Stop sending messangers and tell them flat out its your way or the high way. However, if it's a happy marriage and a good relationship with the inlaws, then I think making them comfortable is a good first step in the right direction. Understand that sometimes giving means you'll take away more.

Sorry this response was so long, but I know how difficult in-laws can be...but I also know how important that relationship is too.

 

[4ever]

Having read your other posts on the topic I think you should stand strong with this one and say FBIL WILL NOT BE the best man, full stop, not up for debate.

With the FIL as BM I think you FI should have private words with him and explain that it would mean alot to him if he would be the best man and why he would like him to do it. However, if he is not happy with this or does not want to be BM then you can''t really make him and you really need a BM plan C just incase.

I understand that it''s important to try and keep the peace with your future inlaws but, having a sister much like your FBIL, there is no way I would let some one like that in the bridal party to bring down such a happy day for you both.

Best of luck with sorting it out.

 

[LilyKat]

If you both don''t want FBIL as Best Man, you shouldn''t have him. If FFIL doesn''t want to be Best Man, he shouldn''t have to do it either.

Could your fiance have a close friend do it instead? Or even no one at all? There is no legal requirement for a Best Man, and your MOH could hold the rings. Just a thought.

 

[Porridge]

I agree 100% with Italia. While it is your wedding and people should respect your wishes, I''m not really sure what you hoped to achieve from this conversation. You know that his parents are elderly and traditional, and you also know that they love FBIL. So asking his father (who is elderly and traditional) to be BM in FBIL''s place (who they love) was never going to end well IMHO.

If you don''t want FBIL to be BM, have a mature conversation with him as to why, explaining your good reasons (without turning it into a personal attack). If he can''t be mature back, tough. But don''t drag his parents into it in a way that clearly, and understandably, makes them uncomfortable.

Pick your battles here and know your opponent!

 

[rhbgirl24]

My fiance is having his father as Best Man. FFIL is only in his 50s, but it does happen. I''ve seen it at a few weddings now.

 

[NuggetBrain]

I''m sorry, but I don''t care how old their parents are. It is completely unacceptable for the parents to demand that they allow a man who called the bride a "Filipino whore" to be the best man in their wedding, and its completely unacceptable to think its okay that his parents continue to coddle and find excuses for his behavior. Especially when the groom has a best friend that would be much more situable as a BM. Trying not to create waves within a family is fine, but there needs to be a line drawn at basic respect. And if he cannot respect his future sister in law, he doesn''t deserve to be part of the most special day in her life to that degree. Has your FI thought of asking his best friend to be BM, and his brother to be a groomsman? This is as far as I would go in regards to the issue, its obvious that your FI would do nothing but stress about his brother being his BM, and its just not worth the stress.

 

[Porridge]

Of course it''s unacceptable for them to demand FBIL be best man, but that''s not what their doing. They''re saying that the groom''s father can''t be best man. Which, if that''s how they feel, is fine. It''s unreasonable to expect that people who have been acting a certain way all along will suddenly change and start behaving how you want them to. You don''t have to accept this behaviour, and Brendaman and her FI should certainly not have FBIL as BM if they don''t wish to (neither would I after all he''s done). But there''s no point expecting anything different from the parents or brother - they are who they are and trying to change them now will cause unnecessary frustration.

Stick to your guns, do what you want to do, and if people don''t like it, tough.

 

[NuggetBrain]

Date: 6/19/2009 11:55:10 AM
Author: Porridge
Of course it's unacceptable for them to demand FBIL be best man, but that's not what their doing. They're saying that the groom's father can't be best man. Which, if that's how they feel, is fine. It's unreasonable to expect that people who have been acting a certain way all along will suddenly change and start behaving how you want them to. You don't have to accept this behaviour, and Brendaman and her FI should certainly not have FBIL as BM if they don't wish to (neither would I after all he's done). But there's no point expecting anything different from the parents or brother - they are who they are and trying to change them now will cause unnecessary frustration.

Stick to your guns, do what you want to do, and if people don't like it, tough.

I was under the impression from previous posts of hers that the parents hinted that they wouldn't be going to the wedding if the brother wasn't BM. Also, going off previous posts, they have demanded that the FBIL be the best man. I agree that they shouldn't try and force the father to be the BM either if he doesn't want to. But they shouldn't feel they have to let the brother be any part of the bridal party given his previous behavior, and the stress that it seems to be putting on the groom. If they really want to try and keep the parents at least partically happy, groomsman is all I'd do. Personally, I'd tell him to piss off, but I'm not exactly known for my tact.

 

[swimmer]

Brendaman,
Aren''t you having a traditional Jewish ceremony? Usually the groom and bride are both walked to the chuppah by both their parents. You could have fbil hold one of the chuppah poles or distribute yarmulkes? Some sort of position of honor...if you can bear him being there at all by that point.

Yes, several folks have said this already, but it is not up for discussion. Who you want in the ceremony and at the ceremony is really up to you and your FI. I know it stops feeling like that early on, and I certainly wish that I had exerted more control over our guest list...so yes, I know it can be very trying. Hugs lady. Have you read The New Jewish Wedding? It was so helpful. Several times family members said "I hope you are going to do x, y, or z" and I just said we were going to be very traditional and thereby avoided controversy. Mostly, I fail to see how being in your wedding is going to make up for fbil''s "rough life." The fils must be filled with guilt over something. This is not within your power to fix. Not their guilt or his difficult path and poor decisions. Sorry that it is being played out in your wedding planning. hugs!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 6/19/2009 11:08:02 AM
Author: NuggetBrain
I''m sorry, but I don''t care how old their parents are. It is completely unacceptable for the parents to demand that they allow a man who called the bride a ''Filipino whore'' to be the best man in their wedding, and its completely unacceptable to think its okay that his parents continue to coddle and find excuses for his behavior. Especially when the groom has a best friend that would be much more situable as a BM. Trying not to create waves within a family is fine, but there needs to be a line drawn at basic respect. And if he cannot respect his future sister in law, he doesn''t deserve to be part of the most special day in her life to that degree. Has your FI thought of asking his best friend to be BM, and his brother to be a groomsman? This is as far as I would go in regards to the issue, its obvious that your FI would do nothing but stress about his brother being his BM, and its just not worth the stress.

Nugget I don''t think the BIL is the issue of this post...in more geared towards the FIL''s and how they apparently have opinions of their own.

For what its worth, her FBIL sounds like a lunatic. He is incredibly disrespectful and that just stratches the surface of how he treats her. He shouldn''t be the BM...not at all. But, she needs to be woman enough to confront this fact instead of always depending on someone to get the message out.

And you''re right...a line should be drawn over basic respect. These people are his parents...whether she likes it or not, they will be forever tied together. She cannot expect the same level of comprehension from an 80 year old couple as she could from one of her peers. She needs to consider them and their level of comfort. Yes it is their wedding as the OP points out, but it is also a family event when you decide to host a large one...it''s not like they are sneaking off to an exotic beach just the two of them and his parents are being overbaring or nosy....they are simply traditional people who have been asked to partake in contemporary roles. They can have an opinion on that.

 

[Porridge]

NuggetBrain - I think we essentially have the same view, only you are suggesting a little more tact

whereas I am suggesting she completely ignore FIL''s view on this because they really don''t have a say in it.

I am appalled by BIL''s atrocious behaviour. If you don''t want him in your wedding, don''t have him. But the bottom line is that it''s between you, FBIL and your FI. Your FIL''s are separate. He is their son. It''s a shame they put up with such a load of crap from him, but that''s their business. Disappointing, I understand, but it is what it is. Again, try to ignore it.

 

[brendaman]

OK, this is a long reply. Sit down. Grab your coffee, martini, etc. Relax and read . . .

When I learned that my Future In-Laws were quite upset that I had posted our situation, I thought long and hard whether I should continue. After reading your responses to this, I know I made the right decision. Somehow I am just comforted by the “kindness (or having a venting arena) of strangers” or rather fellow PSers. Thank you , dear PS friends!! You're no longer strangers!

Presently, FI and I are living in two worlds. There is the happy world of our love and planning for the dream wedding, and then there is the world/situation created by FBIL and FILs. My family and friends live in the former world. We just have to get FBIL and FIL to move closer to our world.

FI and I believe that if FBIL were out of the picture, we would have one happy world. Unfortunately, FBIL cannot be out of the picture. I still believe family is family; blood is blood. I think it was fleur-de-lis who correctly analyzed the situation by saying that my FILs are “feeling anxiety about the comfortable status quo being upset, and they'd rather employ the technique of hypothesizing future embarrassments with their "good son" to get your fiance's anxiety levels *so high* that he changes his mind and the old, comfortable family dynamic they know comes back.” FILs know how to push FI’s ‘"anxiety buttons" they installed in him decades ago’. This is actually the first time that FI has not done what they wanted him to do or rather, that FI has insisted on his way. FI is such a strong, assertive man in every aspect of his life, except for this. Jewish guilt? Sure.

FILs wanted a sit down with FI, and when they were told of FI’s wishes -- to have his father as BM for reasons x, y and z (his reasons were heartfelt and well rehearsed enough to bring any grown man to tears). Unfortunately, I don’t think FILs really heard it as they were fixated over a glass half-empty.

Italia – I understand that they are elderly , and we try to remember that they (as well as FBIL) are people who cannot change. However, it's inappopriate for them to insist on their wishes, because they are not comfortable or famililar with the idea. It's still not their wedding. I can understand if they are paying for it, then I can't really insist. But they are not! FI has asked his father to be BM; his declining the honor position, does not automatically make FBIL the BM. If he does not want to be BM, then we will have no BM or GM. We're not asking them to change or be comfortable with what they feel is an uncomfortable decision. We're asking them to respect our wishes/decision regarding our wedding. In a Jewish wedding, the entire bridal party stands underneath the Chuppah. One won't be able to tell BM from GM.

I’m sure it has always been assumed that the boys would be each other’s BM. Years ago FBIL was engaged, and FI was to be BM (FBIL eventually cancelled his engagement for various reasons). FBIL’s ex-fiancee did not like my FI, but FBIL still insisted on my FI being BM. So, the parents think that FI should do the same – FI should insist that his brother be BM. When FILs told FI this, FI tells them, “well, I didn’t call my brother’s ex-fiance a Filipino whore”.

I thought I had a good relationship with FMIL. Last month when all of this was just beginning, I called FMIL to finally tell her my side. All I heard from her was that FBIL has had a terrible life (the terrible life being their gifted child never really became a world mover/shaker). Now, FBIL is alone without a wife/gfriend in a jo which doesn’t appreciate him and is unable to find another even though he’s being looking for years. Blah, blah, blah. I just kept saying that all this does not justify FBIL’s being mean and nasty to me. She then said that FBIL thinks that I don’t like him. I repeated again that it’s not a reason to be mean and nasty to me, as I am never mean and nasty to him!

FI and I have decided to go over visit his parents next week. I can already feel FI's resolve start to melt; his parents are gettign to him. He's even said to me that he really doesn't care anymore if there is a BM or not. He also doesn't care if his brother were BM. He realizes I've been mistreated, but he just does not want to have to deal with this anymore. He'd rather I deal with the situation as he feels that I can better explain any wedding details and hopefully can answer their concerns (because I don't melt into a puddle of anxiety and guilt in front of his parents).

Swimmer – Yes, I’ve already read The New Jewish Wedding. It is my wedding bible. I’m almost done with my conversion meetings with the rabbi. You would think FILs would be happy, but FI told me that they were criticizing my converting Reform (FILs grew up Orthodox and raised their children Conservadox). FMIL was telling FI that I don’t even have to know Hebrew to convert Reform, to which FI responded, “Mother, you never learned Hebrew either”. Oy-vey! Go figure?!

Thanks again for everyone’s support and advice. I truly, truly value them!!

And don’t worry, I’m not letting FILs rain on my wedding parade!!

 

[dragonfly411]

brendaman - I just now caught up on this. At this point it seems like FILS are going to find any way to not take your side (just from the conversion story alone). I really feel like your FI needs to man up, put on his big boy pants, and put his foot down as to what HE wants at HIS wedding.