Financial Stability

[absolut_blonde]

So... we had another big talk on Thursday night and the issue of finances came up. SO mentioned that he wants to be more financially stable before getting engaged. We''re doing pretty well overall, but he wants to be at the point where we''re ''comfortable'' and he could basically support us both (why, I''m not sure -- no plans for me to SAH til we have kids so I suppose it''s just the principle). I know this might sound like a cop-out but he sincerely seems to think he has to accomplish more before he''s, well... deserving or worthy of taking the next step. It''s almost like he thinks of it as something to earn.

Now, I don''t see things this way at all. What if finances take longer than anticipated to get to the point he''s wanting? Or, what if they never do? Plus, if we are going to be ''poor'' in, say, 2 years then we''ll be poor regardless of whether we are married. I''d rather be poor AND married to him at least! And if we go ahead and live together beforehand, our lives and finances will be extremely intertwined either way.

Realistically, we are not doing that badly financially even now. We both make more than your average person, which is pretty good considering that I only graduated from university last year. I suppose it comes down to a basic difference in values, which is tricky. I can sort of see his point, but at the most basic level I just do not understand it. I realize that money is a big issue for many couples and I can tell that he''s worried that it will be a problem for us (perhaps it was with his ex, or his parents... he''s very specifically concerned about it). I just don''t think holding off on marriage is going to help any financial roadblocks.

Is/was this an issue with anyone else''s SO? I know the whole ''provider complex'' is not entirely incommon with men.

 

[aliciagirl]

My guy definitely isn''t like this and while I do think it is sweet when a guy thinks you deserve being "provided" for, I couldn''t marry someone who held that opinion. SO has a great job and does well financially, but once I start working I will make twice what he makes. I love him because he doesn''t care that I will make more than him, it''s a non-issue for us. If he was dragging his feet waiting until he could make enough to provide for both of us... it would honestly make me angry. I''m working hard to finish school and I have absolutely no desire to be a SAHM, so it would be a copout for him. This is just my situation, though. Financial stability is certainly hard to define. I don''t appreciate when guys use to as an excuse, though.

If it bothers you, I would try to find out why this is something he''s so concerned about.

 

[gwendolyn]

Hmm, the way he''s phrased things and his justifications for his feelings could really sway this a few different ways. If says he wants to make enough or have enough money saved to essentially be able to support you, is that a matter of pride? Is it his way of stating his goal amount in order to have enough to buy a house, a ring, and save up for a wedding? Does he have student loans and/or other debt that plagues him that he wants to have more under control?

If you guys are just scraping by, I can see why he''d be hesitant to take the step towards a wedding if he sees it as an expense he''s responsible for. However, the difference between "just scraping by" and "comfortable" will vary from person to person. For me, "just scraping by" is struggling to pay all the monthly bill and have food on the table and a way to get to work everyday. For a friend of mine, her "just scraping by" is not having enough money to go drinking with her friends 4 or 5 nights a week. It''s all relative, so perhaps you need to talk to see what your definitions are. It''s really maddening to talk with someone and think you''re communicating, when in fact the words you''re using mean different things to both of you. Like ''girl soon'' and ''boy soon.''

Anyway, I don''t know much about your situation, so I can''t say for sure, but on the whole, him being concerned about finances is a good thing. If you both are living in the lap of luxury, then yeah, it would seem like he''s just using that as an excuse, but if (as is likely) you''re somewhere in the middle of a grey area, I think it''s best to sit down and really talk about exact amounts of savings he''s looking to have and the precise things your boyfriend is worried about financially. Reach a compromise! And then tell your boyfriend to call my boyfriend--J could use a dash or two of the provider instinct your boyfriend has!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I can understand wanting to be financially independent before getting engaged--I wouldn''t have even considered getting engaged until I felt I was comfortable with my career and making enough to put a certain percentage of my salary into savings every month. D and I are on the same page financially--we are intense savers and he also wanted to have a certain amount saved before considering marriage, which I supported. Between the ring, the wedding, the honeymoon, saving for a house, etc. we wanted to be able to pay for those things without feeling like our savings was going to be wiped out and it took a while to get there.

Still, I think the key isn''t in what they say about wanting to be "financially secure", but instead what they are DOING about it. Once I felt financially secure I started talking about getting engaged and D would always say that he wanted more money saved...but as I watched his assets grow, he didn''t seem to be any closer to marriage. It was one of the clues I saw that he just wasn''t ready. He later told me that he would set financial goals for himself thinking that when he reached it, then he''d feel "ready", but he never did feel ready.

Anyway, my point is that if he''s talking about being "financially secure" but buying toys for himself and not saving, then it might be an excuse. Or if he is saving everything he can, but not talking openly about getting married, it could also be an excuse. If he''s saving and you guys seem to be on the same page about marriage, he just wants to be at a certain financial point, then give him the benefit of the doubt. You could even throw in a caveat and say "If you haven''t reached your goal by xx time, then I would prefer to get engaged anyway" and see what he says. I think it''s important that he feels financially ready to be married, but I think you guys can do it in a way that makes you both happy. Good luck!

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 4/28/2008 1:38:52 AM
Author:absolut_blonde
So... we had another big talk on Thursday night and the issue of finances came up. SO mentioned that he wants to be more financially stable before getting engaged. We''re doing pretty well overall, but he wants to be at the point where we''re ''comfortable'' and he could basically support us both (why, I''m not sure -- no plans for me to SAH til we have kids so I suppose it''s just the principle). I know this might sound like a cop-out but he sincerely seems to think he has to accomplish more before he''s, well... deserving or worthy of taking the next step. It''s almost like he thinks of it as something to earn.

Now, I don''t see things this way at all. What if finances take longer than anticipated to get to the point he''s wanting? Or, what if they never do? Plus, if we are going to be ''poor'' in, say, 2 years then we''ll be poor regardless of whether we are married. I''d rather be poor AND married to him at least! And if we go ahead and live together beforehand, our lives and finances will be extremely intertwined either way.

Realistically, we are not doing that badly financially even now. We both make more than your average person, which is pretty good considering that I only graduated from university last year. I suppose it comes down to a basic difference in values, which is tricky. I can sort of see his point, but at the most basic level I just do not understand it. I realize that money is a big issue for many couples and I can tell that he''s worried that it will be a problem for us (perhaps it was with his ex, or his parents... he''s very specifically concerned about it). I just don''t think holding off on marriage is going to help any financial roadblocks.

Is/was this an issue with anyone else''s SO? I know the whole ''provider complex'' is not entirely incommon with men.

I think the same thing. Some people will never be financially "comfortable" in their minds no matter how much money they make or how much they have in the bank. You''re right about being poor too - my DH and I were "poor" when we married and are still "poor" (at least my most standards) now. We have student loans, a car loan and a baby on the way but when it''s all said and done there is more to life than having a lot of money. We are happy even if we can''t afford stainless steel appliances a 300K house a 50K car and a boat on the lake.

It sounds to me like he''s reaching for an excuse to not get engaged right now. It''s good to be on the same page but maybe he needs to qualify what "comfortable" means to him. Good luck!

Jess

 

[ringless]

Don''t feel alone! I am in the same boat. My bf and I have been together almost 7 years and he is finally graduating this weekend!

Which means he will be working full time (already has a job) so we are super excited about that (well mostly me! haha)... b/c this means the next step towards being financially stable, etc. My bf is really good w/ his money so it doesn''t surprise me that he''s acting this way. I actually can wait... I want a decent ring and nice wedding, so I think I can hold out!

 

[KCCutie]

I think it''s sweet that my SO wants to be able to support me, not that he needs to or that I even want him to, but the fact that he wants to is still sweet. I know that many guys have this mindset that they need to be financially stable before they get married but stable can mean different things to different people. I think my SO has been "stable" since I met him but I think the raise he got this year is one of the big factors that got him thinking about getting engaged. Talk to him and let him know how you feel about it and see what he says.

 

[lliang_chi]

I guess you should give him some time right now and see how things are working out. I like what NewEnglandLady is saying about it maybe being an excuse. I'm not saying it is, but he should know that you guys getting married is important to you. In the end it's about his feelings and what he's comfortable with. If he can express it and draw it out in concrete terms then it's a goal and something you guys can build towards. But if he's always going to want more money or more things, then it'll never end. From what you said, it sounds like you guys are still pretty young (just out of college), so you should definitely figure things out. It's a good step that you guys are talking about the future and stuff.

Good luck!

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:30:42 AM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I can understand wanting to be financially independent before getting engaged--I wouldn''t have even considered getting engaged until I felt I was comfortable with my career and making enough to put a certain percentage of my salary into savings every month. D and I are on the same page financially--we are intense savers and he also wanted to have a certain amount saved before considering marriage, which I supported. Between the ring, the wedding, the honeymoon, saving for a house, etc. we wanted to be able to pay for those things without feeling like our savings was going to be wiped out and it took a while to get there.

Still, I think the key isn''t in what they say about wanting to be ''financially secure'', but instead what they are DOING about it. Once I felt financially secure I started talking about getting engaged and D would always say that he wanted more money saved...but as I watched his assets grow, he didn''t seem to be any closer to marriage. It was one of the clues I saw that he just wasn''t ready. He later told me that he would set financial goals for himself thinking that when he reached it, then he''d feel ''ready'', but he never did feel ready.

Anyway, my point is that if he''s talking about being ''financially secure'' but buying toys for himself and not saving, then it might be an excuse. Or if he is saving everything he can, but not talking openly about getting married, it could also be an excuse. If he''s saving and you guys seem to be on the same page about marriage, he just wants to be at a certain financial point, then give him the benefit of the doubt. You could even throw in a caveat and say ''If you haven''t reached your goal by xx time, then I would prefer to get engaged anyway'' and see what he says. I think it''s important that he feels financially ready to be married, but I think you guys can do it in a way that makes you both happy. Good luck!

I get what you''re saying. I do think it''s a bit of both-- finances as well as not being ready. And that''s ok, because I''m not even looking to get engaged right now, or in the near future.

But what frustrates me is his inability to give me a ballpark idea of when it might happen. That just goes back to the finances and wanting it to be a surprise. It''s honestly ok if he''s not ready yet and I''d be ok if he owned up to that but I''d really like a vague idea of when he might be.


And on another note, it''s not like he''s really old-fashioned in the sense that he doesn''t want me to work. We''re both equals and all of that jazz. But, I come from a fairly comfortable background and I think that intimidates him. He really seems to care about what my parents think and about our security overall. I do think it''s a pride thing, like someone else mentioned (at least partially).

 

[NewEnglandLady]

It sounds like he simply isn''t ready to think about marriage and feels like "financial security" is a valid reason, even if he''s using it as an excuse. Do you guys have a joint account right now? Are you interested in opening one? Do you currently have a household budget and know how much each of you contribute? Have you talked about what kind of financial relationship you''lll have after marriage: will you be contributing 50% or contributing a percentage of your salary, etc.? Do you know how much you want to contribute to retirement, travelling, a house, etc. as a couple after you are married? These are good ways to open up financial discussion beyond just a dating or living together scenario. It sounds like financial security is important to him, so if you bring up wanting to discuss your financial security as a married couple and he avoids it, you''ll know that his fears are about more than just financial matters.

 

[HisLadyLove]

SO and I went through the same talk too!!! He wants us to be able to be stable enough so that when we do get engaged/married/have kids we won''t have worries!! So now that we are living together, making good incomes (especially his), and have total job stability (we both work for the gov''t) I''m sitting here twiddling my thumbs lol!

It will happen for you I''m sure!

 

[sklingem]

It is a fine line - you have to be able to live in the present as well. What is more important? Some subjective notion of financial stability (believe me - once you have kids there is NO sense of financial stability) or living in the moment, knowing that a lot of things can happen in the future? If you can afford it now and it is important to you - DO IT! And that includes buying that engagement ring. Money can''t buy you love - but it is even harder if you have the money and she is gone!

 

[Laila619]

I think financial stability is somewhat of a poor excuse for delaying engagement. If he wants to save money for a wedding and house, that''s one thing. But getting engaged? There''s never a "perfect" time for that. If he has enough money to get you a decent ring, then it''s the right time! You can always have a long engagement if he''s worried about money. It sounds like an excuse to me.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Enough money for a decent ring??? hahaha. Decent rings around here are minimum 7-10 g. Do you have 7 thousand dollars if you would propose to your bf today? This stuff takes time, planning, and organization from our men... Things us ladies take for granted.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Oh and I think long engagements are ridiculous. You should get engaged when you are ready to get married period. If you just want a pretty ring on ur finger why not ask for a promise ring???

 

[Laila619]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:05:17 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
Enough money for a decent ring??? hahaha. Decent rings around here are minimum 7-10 g. Do you have 7 thousand dollars if you would propose to your bf today? This stuff takes time, planning, and organization from our men... Things us ladies take for granted.

Oh, I agree, but it should not take YEARS is all I''m saying. I think if a man has even some money in savings, he can always take the ring on a payment plan!

Or he can buy a more affordable ring, and upgrade on their 5th wedding anniversary. That''s preferable to making an anxious woman who wants to get married and have kids wait for years. I think most of us don''t care about a pricey ring, we just want the man and the commitment for life.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

True, but not everyone wants to finance a ring. Some people are not comfortable with loans, paying interest etc... If I had to buy my bf a big pice of jewelery I would also want to pay cash if I could.

 

[dinkster]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:31:16 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
True, but not everyone wants to finance a ring. Some people are not comfortable with loans, paying interest etc... If I had to buy my bf a big pice of jewelery I would also want to pay cash if I could.

My boyfriend has mentioned a few times that he would prefer paying cash, or as much as he could (without draining savings) on an engagement ring. We''ve each set up an "us" fund online with some high yield online savings, as well as Certificate of Deposits (in our own names for tax purposes). This way, we''re putting away money, and hopefully getting more out of it than just keeping it in our brick & mortar banks which aren''t getting much for savings.

 

[dinkster]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:31:16 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
True, but not everyone wants to finance a ring. Some people are not comfortable with loans, paying interest etc... If I had to buy my bf a big pice of jewelery I would also want to pay cash if I could.

This got posted twice....so, I'm going to just say hi!!!

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:38:36 PM
Author: dinkster

Date: 4/28/2008 9:31:16 PM

Author: ilovethiswebsite

True, but not everyone wants to finance a ring. Some people are not comfortable with loans, paying interest etc... If I had to buy my bf a big pice of jewelery I would also want to pay cash if I could.

My boyfriend has mentioned a few times that he would prefer paying cash, or as much as he could (without draining savings) on an engagement ring. We''ve each set up an ''us'' fund online with some high yield online savings, as well as Certificate of Deposits (in our own names for tax purposes). This way, we''re putting away money, and hopefully getting more out of it than just keeping it in our brick & mortar banks which aren''t getting much for savings.

Yep smart! Me and my bf are doing the same thing

 

[dinkster]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:42:02 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite

Date: 4/28/2008 9:38:36 PM

Author: dinkster

Date: 4/28/2008 9:31:16 PM


Author: ilovethiswebsite


True, but not everyone wants to finance a ring. Some people are not comfortable with loans, paying interest etc... If I had to buy my bf a big pice of jewelery I would also want to pay cash if I could.

My boyfriend has mentioned a few times that he would prefer paying cash, or as much as he could (without draining savings) on an engagement ring. We''ve each set up an ''us'' fund online with some high yield online savings, as well as Certificate of Deposits (in our own names for tax purposes). This way, we''re putting away money, and hopefully getting more out of it than just keeping it in our brick and mortar banks which aren''t getting much for savings.

Yep smart! Me and my bf are doing the same thing

Figure, you''re going to be saving anyways, so why not put it into an online savings account, which you can still have access to (for monthly bills, etc.) and getting better than the regular banks! As the saying goes....every little bit helps

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:20:46 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 4/28/2008 9:05:17 PM



Oh, I agree, but it should not take YEARS is all I''m saying. I think if a man has even some money in savings, he can always take the ring on a payment plan!

Or he can buy a more affordable ring, and upgrade on their 5th wedding anniversary. That''s preferable to making an anxious woman who wants to get married and have kids wait for years. I think most of us don''t care about a pricey ring, we just want the man and the commitment for life.

Well, but I must say: some people are against upgrading.
And again, it does depend on your individual situation. If he''s crazy about her and he''s 18, should he run out and buy her a ring with his newly cashed out college fund/trust? Even if they''d been dating 2 years at that point, waiting 3 doesn''t sound unreasonable to me... or heck... even longer might be better!

And I just don''t believe finances aren''t an excuse. My SO and I are going to start life together with nearly half a million dollars in debt (not counting a mortgage), and it is hard enough as it is that his current jobs pays so poorly. I completely understand why it''s difficult for him to focus on saving money for a ring, that basically sits functionless on my finger when he could be paying off his own debt with what little money he has leftover at the end of the month. If he put the ring onto our combined debt burden, it''d just be worse for the both of us.

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 4/28/2008 1:23:33 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
It sounds like he simply isn''t ready to think about marriage and feels like ''financial security'' is a valid reason, even if he''s using it as an excuse. Do you guys have a joint account right now? Are you interested in opening one? Do you currently have a household budget and know how much each of you contribute? Have you talked about what kind of financial relationship you''lll have after marriage: will you be contributing 50% or contributing a percentage of your salary, etc.? Do you know how much you want to contribute to retirement, travelling, a house, etc. as a couple after you are married? These are good ways to open up financial discussion beyond just a dating or living together scenario. It sounds like financial security is important to him, so if you bring up wanting to discuss your financial security as a married couple and he avoids it, you''ll know that his fears are about more than just financial matters.

We''ve discussed finances quite a bit and have worked most of that out. Partly because we know so many people for whom finances have been an issue -- we decided early on that it was best to make sure we were on the same page. And we have been able to work out agreements/compromises on all of those things you mentioned, both for when we''re just living together and for when we marry/have kids. Down to separate accounts vs combined, how to split the bills, whether I''ll work when we have kids, savings, etc. So... for the most part we''re on the same page aside from, I suppose, the actual commitment!


I get the not being ready thing. I guess what frustrates me is that he''s been the one to bring up marriage and all of that. He''s the one who wanted ring ideas, who''s talked about being excited for the next step, etc. I just feel like I''m getting mixed messages (hm, sound familiar? I know I have posted about this before).

I do believe that finances are at least a partial reason though again, I also understand if he is not ready just yet. But then, why talk about it so much? It just leaves me feeling... well, not annoyed but lead on? I don''t know. I don''t think he''s doing it intentionally to get my hopes up. Maybe he''s just a bit freaked at the finality/seriousness of marriage when I am the one to bring it up. I just don''t quite understand where he''s coming from.

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Given how much you two have talked about it, maybe he just wants to throw you off. On the other hand, it could just be that he''d like to be in a financial position where he could say he''s "made it." Men have their quirks too, and success is a huge issue for a lot of men.

Perhaps next time he brings it up, you could bring up a savings plan, since the two of you have talked about finances already?

And of course, maybe he talks about it a lot because he''s thinking boy soon?

Man, if only they could read time the way we do.