Fire sapphire costs

[eomotes]

I recently purchased a 0.85 CT fire sapphire for $890 from Shane Co. jewelry store. Their company specializes in sapphires and a few other gemstones. After purchasing, I did some research online, and I can’t really find any fire sapphires. Like at all. I am not sure if I spent too much money on this sapphire because there are few references online. Thoughts? The fire sapphire is brilliantly & beautifully red, and I have never seen anything like it on both auctions sites or from local gem dealers.

 

[demantoidz]

'Fire' is a marketing term that probably only they use which is why you can't find much info on what it means.
I checked the site and could find no info on what these stones actually are - diffused natural sapphire, glass filled, synthetic? Zero chance they have stockpiles of calibrated sized, natural, untreated corundum of this color.

Ok, they do declare this:
"Rubies and sapphires commonly undergo treatments (typically heat treatment, either with or without beryllium) to intensify the stone's natural color. These treatments are permanent. We will never sell a stone that was glass filled or otherwise treated with something not permanent. Every Shane Co. stone is guaranteed for life under our warranty."

So that rules out glass filling. Beryllium diffusion is still an option and considered invasive to most here.
There are some BE ones for sale here, so you can compare.

Loose gemstones, rare colored stones, pearls and certified diamonds.

Buy loose gemstones and certified diamonds direct. Choose from over 10.000 real time gemstone inventory, including alexandrite, sapphire, ruby, tanzanite, tsavorite, spinel and tourmaline.

www.multicolour.com

Loose gemstones, rare colored stones, pearls and certified diamonds.

Buy loose gemstones and certified diamonds direct. Choose from over 10.000 real time gemstone inventory, including alexandrite, sapphire, ruby, tanzanite, tsavorite, spinel and tourmaline.

www.multicolour.com

Loose gemstones, rare colored stones, pearls and certified diamonds.

Buy loose gemstones and certified diamonds direct. Choose from over 10.000 real time gemstone inventory, including alexandrite, sapphire, ruby, tanzanite, tsavorite, spinel and tourmaline.

www.multicolour.com

Loose gemstones, rare colored stones, pearls and certified diamonds.

Buy loose gemstones and certified diamonds direct. Choose from over 10.000 real time gemstone inventory, including alexandrite, sapphire, ruby, tanzanite, tsavorite, spinel and tourmaline.

www.multicolour.com

 

[eomotes]

Thank you for your response. I purchased the stone yesterday, but I am picking it up on Saturday. They have a 60 day return policy, so I’m going to inquire more about what treatments have been done to the stone. I wasn’t too worried about what it was exactly because I know I’m not locked into the purchase quite yet. They confirmed it is indeed a sapphire, but I have never seen any sapphire that looks like that. The stone itself is absolutely gorgeous, regardless of what it is, but it would be nice to have some insight about what it is exactly. It is more of a red-orange, unlike a ruby. My plan was to have it set into a gold and diamond ring. I wish I had taken a picture while I was there yesterday, as I feel that would’ve given some more insight. I will attach one when I pick it up so you can see what I am talking about. Thanks again for your response. It was helpful. Hope you have a good rest of your day.

 

[demantoidz]

Thank you for your response. I purchased the stone yesterday, but I am picking it up on Saturday. They have a 60 day return policy, so I’m going to inquire more about what treatments have been done to the stone. I wasn’t too worried about what it was exactly because I know I’m not locked into the purchase quite yet. They confirmed it is indeed a sapphire, but I have never seen any sapphire that looks like that. The stone itself is absolutely gorgeous, regardless of what it is, but it would be nice to have some insight about what it is exactly. It is more of a red-orange, unlike a ruby. My plan was to have it set into a gold and diamond ring. I wish I had taken a picture while I was there yesterday, as I feel that would’ve given some more insight. I will attach one when I pick it up so you can see what I am talking about. Thanks again for your response. It was helpful. Hope you have a good rest of your day.

I just updated my post based on a statement on their site. I also added examples from another vendor of similar looking beryllium treated sapphires. I think the first one I linked is especially vivid and reminds me of the Shane and Co ones. Hope you have a good rest of day too

Hopefully others can chime in if the price was fair, as I do not know much about BE sapphire pricing.

 

[lovedogs]

I suspect BE treatment, so essentially these should be pretty inexpensive. I think the multicoulor ones are overpriced. And Shane company isnt known for high quality sapphires, so I suspect you were significantly overcharged

 

[eomotes]

I just updated my post based on a statement on their site. I also added examples from another vendor of similar looking beryllium treated sapphires. I think the first one I linked is especially vivid and reminds me of the Shane and Co ones. Hope you have a good rest of day too

It’s interesting that you linked that excerpt from their website. I just gave them a call to ask more about the stone. Contrary to what you linked, the lady I talked to said that none of their sapphires undergo any treatments. She says this is because the treatments fade with time (due to the wear and tear that comes with them being worn as jewelry). I asked her what the specific name of the stone was, and she said that it’s really just called a fire sapphire, and if it’s anything else, then it’s a scarlet sapphire. I also asked where it came from, and she said their stones come from India and Thailand, but she couldn’t tell me where this specific stone was from. The last thing I asked was if there was certification for the stone, and she said they only have certification certificates for their diamonds, but I could send it to the GIA myself, and if it’s not what Shane Co. says it is, then they would refund me. The first picture you linked is very similar to what it looks like! Although the one you linked is much cheaper than what I purchased my stone for…

Edited to add: I just looked up BE treatment. I attached a picture that shows the treatment effects. The very bright red one in the top left hand corner (after treatment) is what my stone looks like. I’m a little concerned that the employee told me it wasn’t treated at all. On the phone call, I asked twice to make sure that there was no treatment. Huh.

 

[demantoidz]

It’s interesting that you linked that excerpt from their website. I just gave them a call to ask more about the stone. Contrary to what you linked, the lady I talked to said that none of their sapphires undergo any treatments. She says this is because the treatments fade with time (due to the wear and tear that comes with them being worn as jewelry). I asked her what the specific name of the stone was, and she said that it’s really just called a fire sapphire, and if it’s anything else, then it’s a scarlet sapphire. I also asked where it came from, and she said their stones come from India and Thailand, but she couldn’t tell me where this specific stone was from. The last thing I asked was if there was certification for the stone, and she said they only have certification certificates for their diamonds, but I could send it to the GIA myself, and if it’s not what Shane Co. says it is, then they would refund me. The first picture you linked is very similar to what it looks like! Although the one you linked is much cheaper than what I purchased my stone for…

I do not know what your stone is for sure. But I know there are just plain lies in what they told you.
Would they refund the cost of the GIA report as well if it comes back as treated in some form? Couldn't they point to the disclaimer on their site/policies that says their sapphires may be BE treated if it comes back treated, despite what the lady told you?
I think they are trying to prevent a customer from becoming more educated

 

[lovedogs]

It’s interesting that you linked that excerpt from their website. I just gave them a call to ask more about the stone. Contrary to what you linked, the lady I talked to said that none of their sapphires undergo any treatments. She says this is because the treatments fade with time (due to the wear and tear that comes with them being worn as jewelry). I asked her what the specific name of the stone was, and she said that it’s really just called a fire sapphire, and if it’s anything else, then it’s a scarlet sapphire. I also asked where it came from, and she said their stones come from India and Thailand, but she couldn’t tell me where this specific stone was from. The last thing I asked was if there was certification for the stone, and she said they only have certification certificates for their diamonds, but I could send it to the GIA myself, and if it’s not what Shane Co. says it is, then they would refund me. The first picture you linked is very similar to what it looks like! Although the one you linked is much cheaper than what I purchased my stone for…

Edited to add: I just looked up BE treatment. I attached a picture that shows the treatment effects. The very bright red one in the top left hand corner (after treatment) is what my stone looks like. I’m a little concerned that the employee told me it wasn’t treated at all. On the phone call, I asked twice to make sure that there was no treatment. Huh.

That employee was wrong, I almost guarantee.

 

[demantoidz]

That employee was wrong, I almost guarantee.

True, and the employee may not know and have been trained to say that. Hanlon's razor. I initially assumed the worst.

 

[eomotes]

I do not know what your stone is for sure. But I know there are just plain lies in what they told you.
Would they refund the cost of the GIA report as well if it comes back as treated in some form? Couldn't they point to the disclaimer on their site/policies that says their sapphires may be BE treated if it comes back treated, despite what the lady told you?
I think they are trying to prevent a customer from becoming more educated

I just sent an email to customer service asking all the same questions. Hopefully they will give me some honest answers now that there will be a paper trail. We will see… I really appreciate all of these replies though. This company probably gets away with giving false information to people who aren’t well-informed about these things. I thought I’d ask when I couldn’t find anything on the internet about fire sapphires. It’s interesting because I really could not find anything about this color of sapphire. It’s a very beautiful stone. I just wish they were honest about it.

 

[Austina]

I wonder if this is the same as ‘Sunset sapphires’ I’ve seen elsewhere? I’m pretty sure they were from Songea.

 

[chrono]

"She says this is because the treatments fade with time (due to the wear and tear that comes with them being worn as jewelry)."

BE treatment is permanent and stable. I don't think the salesperson knows what they are talking about.

 

[eomotes]

I wonder if this is the same as ‘Sunset sapphires’ I’ve seen elsewhere? I’m pretty sure they were from Songea.

That’s close, but it’s a little too pink. Attached is a picture that looks similar to the stone I purchased. I am not sure what this kind of sapphire is called. Maybe it is a variation of a sunset sapphire?

 

[eomotes]

"She says this is because the treatments fade with time (due to the wear and tear that comes with them being worn as jewelry)."

BE treatment is permanent and stable. I don't think the salesperson knows what they are talking about.

That’s what I’m thinking. I asked twice if there was any treatment and she confirmed that there wasn’t. She actually put me on hold to ask someone who specializes in their gemstones. Odd

 

[demantoidz]

That’s close, but it’s a little too pink. Attached is a picture that looks similar to the stone I purchased. I am not sure what this kind of sapphire is called. Maybe it is a variation of a sunset sapphire?

Here are less pink BE Songea ones:

4.34ct Natural Songea Sapphire Pear Cut Lot A1218

Songea Sapphire Gemstones 4.8 x 2.7 x 2mm 4.34 cts Auction #1376994 Gem Rock Auctions

www.gemrockauctions.com

36.82ct Natural Golden Tiger Eye Cabochon Lot Z354

Tiger Eye 31.7 x 19.8 x 7.3mm 36.82 cts Auction #1299385 Gem Rock Auctions

www.gemrockauctions.com

 

[eomotes]

Here are less pink BE Songea ones:

4.34ct Natural Songea Sapphire Pear Cut Lot A1218

Songea Sapphire Gemstones 4.8 x 2.7 x 2mm 4.34 cts Auction #1376994 Gem Rock Auctions

www.gemrockauctions.com

36.82ct Natural Golden Tiger Eye Cabochon Lot Z354

Tiger Eye 31.7 x 19.8 x 7.3mm 36.82 cts Auction #1299385 Gem Rock Auctions

www.gemrockauctions.com

That’s spot on! I realize that the one I bought is way overpriced. Yikes. Good thing I can return it

 

[Bron357]

It’s disgraceful when Stores hide behind mumbo jumbo wording and use stock photos.
Carefully worded to be purposely vague and the one photo apparently is a representation of ALL the gemstones for sale?
Sapphires, naturally, rarely come in vivid shades and according to their website they have dozens in the exact same colour and tone. Really?
They rely on the consumer being uneducated and they get away with it.
Heat treatment is one thing, Beryllium diffusion is a whole extra level of deception. Yes it’s permanent but the underlying gem, due to this treatment, has almost zero value.
My suspicion would be that they are lab grown. For the one in 1,000 buyer, or less, who thinks or knows to question and get a lab certificate…. Then they say….
Oops, how did that happen, our supplier let us down, so sorry, here’s your refund. Buyer still out the costs of all the shipping and the lab report.
Look at Macys and their “rubies”.
Natural, untreated gemstones are expensive because they are rare and hard to find. There is significant effort involved to locate them and great examples are few and far between.
My advice, buy natural only with a reputable lab report and expect to pay a lot for vivid tone and high clarity
OR
Buy lab grown. Lab grown is honest, it is what it is. Choose your tone, your shape, your size and pay under $50 a gem. Looks identical, wears identical, why not.
This is my mistake ring, I thought I was buying spessartite garnet, oops, wrong, it’s lab sapphire.
It’s stunning and in the end I love the look so whatever.

 

[eomotes]

It’s disgraceful when Stores hide behind mumbo jumbo wording and use stock photos.
Carefully worded to be purposely vague and the one photo apparently is a representation of ALL the gemstones for sale?
Sapphires, naturally, rarely come in vivid shades and according to their website they have dozens in the exact same colour and tone. Really?
They rely on the consumer being uneducated and they get away with it.
Heat treatment is one thing, Beryllium diffusion is a whole extra level of deception. Yes it’s permanent but the underlying gem, due to this treatment, has almost zero value.
My suspicion would be that they are lab grown. For the one in 1,000 buyer, or less, who thinks or knows to question and get a lab certificate…. Then they say….
Oops, how did that happen, our supplier let us down, so sorry, here’s your refund. Buyer still out the costs of all the shipping and the lab report.
Look at Macys and their “rubies”.
Natural, untreated gemstones are expensive because they are rare and hard to find. There is significant effort involved to locate them and great examples are few and far between.
My advice, buy natural only with a reputable lab report and expect to pay a lot for vivid tone and high clarity
OR
Buy lab grown. Lab grown is honest, it is what it is. Choose your tone, your shape, your size and pay under $50 a gem. Looks identical, wears identical, why not.
This is my mistake ring, I thought I was buying spessartite garnet, oops, wrong, it’s lab sapphire.
It’s stunning and in the end I love the look so whatever.

I think we have just uncovered a scandal if they are indeed lab created! This is a screenshot from their website. View attachment 876856

You are 100% right to question how they have dozens of gemstones that are all the same color! When I was at their store yesterday, I was comparing two “fire sapphires” and they were exactly the same color! I am not sure what kind of legal repercussions could result from this, but now I want to get the ring tested to see what the results are. Maybe they are telling the truth…maybe not. We will see! Thank you for your input! Also that is a very beautiful ring!

 

[T L]

I concur with what everyone said. If you like the color, make sure it’s a fair price for what it is. I wouldn’t pay more than $50 for the stone. That is highly suspicious color. You’re paying $1000/carat!!!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I think we have just uncovered a scandal if they are indeed lab created! This is a screenshot from their website. View attachment 876856

You are 100% right to question how they have dozens of gemstones that are all the same color! When I was at their store yesterday, I was comparing two “fire sapphires” and they were exactly the same color! I am not sure what kind of legal repercussions could result from this, but now I want to get the ring tested to see what the results are. Maybe they are telling the truth…maybe not. We will see! Thank you for your input! Also that is a very beautiful ring!

I’m guessing they are natural but treated. They could have a lot of really ugly rough that, when treated, turns the same color. Maybe.

 

[lovedogs]

I’m guessing they are natural but treated. They could have a lot of really ugly rough that, when treated, turns the same color. Maybe.

That's my guess. I doubt their are lab grown, but rather heavily treated.

 

[eomotes]

Here is the ring with the “fire” sapphire. I am taking it to a gem lab on Monday to see what kind of stone it is. I likely will return it even if the stone is genuine because I feel I overpaid.

 

[pokerface]

The stone is "genuine" in that it is a sapphire mined from the ground, and it will test as such. I don't think a regular gem lab can detect for the presence of beryllium, but the color and the price point make it an absolute certainty that this is a beryllium-treated stone. If you've paid for more than the price of the metal and the diamonds, you've overpaid.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Very pretty ring! These bright orange sapphires are always diffused. I've never seen one that was this shade having been merely heated, let alone untreated. As others have said, if the treatment is acceptable to you, that's fine. Just make sure you're paying an appropriate price. Disclosure of enhancements is key though, and I don't like that you're not getting a straight answer from the seller. I might want to bring my business elsewhere. Good luck!

 

[demantoidz]

Here is the ring with the “fire” sapphire. I am taking it to a gem lab on Monday to see what kind of stone it is. I likely will return it even if the stone is genuine because I feel I overpaid.

In the following thread, we were struggling to find unheated, vivid orangey yellow sapphire. That is, only an orange modifier, in a vivid yellow-dominant stone. Even heat-only in a vivid orangey yellow color is uncommon. So a orange/reddish orange color like that is almost unheard of in untreated sapphire.

Yellow Sapphire

Yellow sapphire seems to be a lot less discussed here, and doesn’t look like favourite of many. Is high quality yellow sapphire much more common and less rare than say blue and pink sapphire? And is it any widely agreed hue standard for terms like golden yellow, orangey yellow etc.? When it...

www.pricescope.com

One can find orange heat-only sapphires but they typically have a brownish modifier, eg:

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