First diamond. Question on cut and light performance

[fatcracker]

I’ve done some research and this is what I purchased. I understand that D color and vvs1 can be considered a waste of money but that’s what I want. Question is will this cut be close to say a white flash ACA? I’ve looked at them with the same color, clarity, and carat and they are roughly 3k more. The dimensions look good and the HCA score is a 1.1. I know GIA rounds their numbers but not sure how much that impacts things. Any feed back from the picture would be awesome.

 

[jp201845]

Welcome to Pricescope,

The numbers on the GIA report do fall within Pricescopes ideal parameters and those are safe numbers but we always recommend advanced images when it comes to GIA triple X grading because of the rounding and averaging GIA does.

Superideals like the ACA brand command a premium because of the precision cutting and are graded by AGS.

Will your diamond sparkle beautifully? Absolutely but you can not compare your diamond to an ACA for cut and light performance.

You are comparing apples to oranges...

Edit. The picture looks very good but I'm no expert I'm sure others will weigh in to comment.

 

[fatcracker]

Thanks for your reply. Im interested on what numbers GIA rounds on the dimensions and to what power? Nearest tenth decimal point or nearest whole number?

looking at my numbers i see table size, star length, facet length that do not have a decimal point. Does that mean those are the numbers that were rounded or impossible to know?

 

[jp201845]

Table is rounded to nearest 1%
Crown Angle is rounded to nearest 0.5 degrees
Pavilion Angle is rounded to nearest 0.2 degrees
Lower half is rounded to nearest 5%
Star is rounded to nearest 5%

 

[MrsBlue]

D vvs1 is not a waste of money if you understand what it is and want to buy it.

Precision cutting is not a waste of money if you understand what it is and want to buy it.

3k more for a comparable precision cut stone does not sound right. Are you sure of that price?

**edited to remove vc option because it wasn't a branded stone**

 

[fatcracker]

D vvs1 is not a waste of money if you understand what it is and want to buy it.

Precision cutting is not a waste of money if you understand what it is and want to buy it.

3k more for a comparable precision cut stone does not sound right. Are you sure of that price?

**edited to remove vc option because it wasn't a branded stone**

Thanks for the reply. How is that diamond anymore precision cut than the one I have? Its still a GIA ex cut diamond which I am reading has a much broader

D vvs1 is not a waste of money if you understand what it is and want to buy it.

Precision cutting is not a waste of money if you understand what it is and want to buy it.

3k more for a comparable precision cut stone does not sound right. Are you sure of that price?

**edited to remove vc option because it wasn't a branded stone**

Table is rounded to nearest 1%
Crown Angle is rounded to nearest 0.5 degrees
Pavilion Angle is rounded to nearest 0.2 degrees
Lower half is rounded to nearest 5%
Star is rounded to nearest 5%

Wow 5% on that last one is a good bit. Thanks for help

 

[munchee]

Sadly there’s no ACA within 0.75ct with the same color and clarity as yours so we can’t compare prices. I think the only way to know, is ordering an ACA or CIH or CBI and compare it yourself with your GIA 3exs, if it looks the same for you then get the cheapest.
I think you’re thinking why paying more for ACA is the same way like I think why paying more for VVS1. In our eyes CBI, CIH, ACA each have its own signature. Even CIH and CBI is different. Each of the brand is different. Which is why a GIA 3exs is also different eventho in the paper it looks similar, but every 0.1 resulting a different diamond. If your question is: Is the diamond that I buy is a good stone? My answer would be: Yes! Absolutely! It looks good. Will it be same like ACA/CIH/CBI? My answer will be: No!

 

[MrsBlue]

Thanks for the reply. How is that diamond anymore precision cut than the one I have? Its still a GIA ex cut diamond which I am reading has a much broader


Wow 5% on that last one is a good bit. Thanks for help

AGS uses a more precise method of reporting crown angle. See info below from Brian Gavin's site.

Also, even if the angles are the same, facets on a non-precision cut stone can be uneven or twisted. The arrowheads on the stone you posted don't line up perfectly, Compare that to images from any precision cut vendor and you'll see the difference.

Your stone is still miles better than most diamonds available in stores and online. If the cut difference seems irrelevant to you, you can stick with your choice. if you're a stickler for precision and don't mind paying extra for it, you can keep looking.

The price difference should be more like 20ish% and not nearly double the cost of a non-precision stone.

AGS Ideal vs GIA Excellent Cut Diamonds

“I’m wondering whether you can shed some light on the differences between AGS Ideal vs GIA Excellent cut diamonds. All of the jewelry stores in my area, seem to only offer diamonds graded by the GIA, IGI, or EGL, and only one seemed to be familiar with the AGS Laboratory. From what I’ve read...

www.briangavindiamonds.com

How the AGS & GIA report proportions differently:​

The AGS Ideal and GIA Excellent diamond grading reports that appear at the top of this article, are for the same Brian Gavin Signature diamond. We submitted the diamond to the AGS Laboratory for grading, and then submitted it to the GIA Gem Trade Laboratory. As you can see, both laboratories gave the diamond the same carat weight, color, clarity, and overall cut grade of AGS Ideal / GIA Excellent cut.

The proportions of the diamond are expressed slightly differently, and this is one of the differences between the two gemological laboratories. Both laboratories determine the proportions, by taking eight individual measurements per section. Then the computerized proportions analysis software, adds those measurements up, and then divides that number by 8 to determine the average.

The AGSL then publishes that average number on their diamond grading report. Thus, if the average of the eight crown angle measurements is 34.8 degrees, that is what you’ll see on the AGS diamond grading report.

However, the GIA then rounds that number off to the nearest half a degree for crown angle. Thus, a diamond with a crown angle of 34.8 degrees, will be rounded off to 35.0 degrees on a GIA diamond grading report. That’s probably fine, but a crown angle of 35.2 degrees will also be rounded off to 35.0 degrees.

The GIA also rounds off the crown height measurement to the nearest half a percent. Same with the pavilion depth, which is also rounded off to the nearest half a percent. And the lower girdle facet length? Well, that’s rounded off to the nearest 5%. Read that last sentence again, and just let that sink in. You can imagine how much wiggle room this practice provides the producers of GIA Excellent cut diamonds.

 

[Txborn79]

If you are close to a Hearts on Fire dealer, take your diamond there and compare it to one of their AGS0 diamonds. That should give you a pretty good comparison

 

[munchee]

@fatcracker I found a good thread for you which show diamond which mark all ideal cut numbers but actually a Dud. Not saying yours is, but if you read that thread it’ll tells you that you can’t judge only based on image, its not a long thread.

Why Advanced Images Matter...A Bad 34.5/40.8...

I'm just as guilty as anyone. Helping someone find a stone and run across one with that 34.5/40.8 combo. You smile. You then run through the rest of the proportions.... 57 table, 61.7 depth, 75 LGF's, 50 stars and medium-slightly thick girdle....check, check, check,check and check You...

www.pricescope.com

 

[fatcracker]

@fatcracker I found a good thread for you which show diamond which mark all ideal cut numbers but actually a Dud. Not saying yours is, but if you read that thread it’ll tells you that you can’t judge only based on image, its not a long thread.

Why Advanced Images Matter...A Bad 34.5/40.8...

I'm just as guilty as anyone. Helping someone find a stone and run across one with that 34.5/40.8 combo. You smile. You then run through the rest of the proportions.... 57 table, 61.7 depth, 75 LGF's, 50 stars and medium-slightly thick girdle....check, check, check,check and check You...

www.pricescope.com

Thanks. I ended up canceling that order and going with a whiteflash ACA. Must say I sure learned a lot about diamonds in the last couple weeks.

 

[sledge]

@fatcracker I found a good thread for you which show diamond which mark all ideal cut numbers but actually a Dud. Not saying yours is, but if you read that thread it’ll tells you that you can’t judge only based on image, its not a long thread.

Why Advanced Images Matter...A Bad 34.5/40.8...

I'm just as guilty as anyone. Helping someone find a stone and run across one with that 34.5/40.8 combo. You smile. You then run through the rest of the proportions.... 57 table, 61.7 depth, 75 LGF's, 50 stars and medium-slightly thick girdle....check, check, check,check and check You...

www.pricescope.com

Haha I was about to link my own post when I saw you already did it.

The short & sweet is proportions on the certificate give us an approximation. Due to variances in rounding, averaging, etc what appears as great isn’t always as great.

If you already bought the stone I’d recommend an ASET scope to help confirm light performance. If you want to assure it has the utmost symmetry also grab a hearts & arrow (H&A) scope.

If the stone doesn’t meet your expectations, then send it back.

But let’s not forget one of the most important factors — your vision. I don’t mean this rudely but your eyes have to be able to see the differences to fully appreciate them. However, just as you noted you wanted a D VVS1, some people want super ideal H&A stones so that premium is worth it to them regardless. Just as others would be perfectly happy with an E or F that is VS2+.

Sometimes what the paper says to our brain matters more than what our eyes can see. And that’s okay as long as you know this and can accept it.

 

[LLJsmom]

Thanks. I ended up canceling that order and going with a whiteflash ACA. Must say I sure learned a lot about diamonds in the last couple weeks.

Exciting! Please come back and share what you ended up with.

 

[fatcracker]

I went down in clarity to a vs1 and got slightly bigger

Diamond | 0.805 ct D VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4336472

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.805 carat D color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4336472

www.whiteflash.com

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

One difference is that GIA's symmetry grade is very broad.
I doubt this is a James Allen True Hearts diamond - buy choosing their top line you will get an Ideal-scope image to show the optical symmetry (which in this stone is likely to have a small deficit).
Another matter is the quality of the polish. As a rule of thumb better optical symmetry is likely to be accompanied by better polish.

The premium brands have those factors 'built in'.

 

[flyingpig]

I’ve done some research and this is what I purchased. I understand that D color and vvs1 can be considered a waste of money but that’s what I want. Question is will this cut be close to say a white flash ACA? I’ve looked at them with the same color, clarity, and carat and they are roughly 3k more. The dimensions look good and the HCA score is a 1.1. I know GIA rounds their numbers but not sure how much that impacts things. Any feed back from the picture would be awesome.

I am not going compare this to ACA.
But, it is a seriously good one.