Frustrated about SO not CLEANING! Vent!

[Lauren8211]

As I mentioned in a previous post, FF lost his job on the 14th. So he''s been home for nearly 2 weeks now, he *kind of* almost has a job lined up. The first interviewer loved him, and was preparing an offer. He has to go in for a second interview on Friday, but he''s pretty sure he''s got the job.

Meanwhile, I am working 25 hours a week and taking 18 credit hours. Yet somehow, I''m doing pretty much ALL of the housework. The only time he ever does anything is when he sees me doing something, and feels guilty and goes, "Oh let me do that."

Ugh, Well NO. I started it. Don''t swoop in and finish what I''ve started and act like you''ve been contributing. I''m getting frustrated. Why can''t he just take the initiative to get up and clean while I''m working my bum off!? He''s at home all day, and it''s really upsetting me that I have to ask for anything to be cleaned. I hate saying "Can you please clean x, y, z?" because I start to feel like a nag, but at the same time, if I don''t say anything, I just bottle it all up until I explode at him for nothing. And no, I do not expect him to clean EVERYTHING, but he can''t help??

We''ve talked about this before. It''s not like I haven''t tried talking this out before. I don''t know what else to do.

Is it too much to ask that he start to do things without my asking? Or is this how it''s going to be forever? I hate feeling like a nag, but the last thing I want to do at 9 PM when I''ve finally gotten home after being up at 630 is clean up after him. I am annoyed that my wildest, most romantic fantasy at age 25 is coming home to a clean house.

Ok. Rant over. Fire at will!

 

[sunnyd]

I soooo feel ya elle...my FF is the same way. So unfortunately I have no sound advice to offer, because I just nag.

Does he know that it really upsets you? That sorta helps for me, or when I start cleaning in an angry-you-could-have-done-this-in-the-few-hours-you''ve-been-home way.

Oh, and positive reinforcement. Good boy cleaning his laundry up! Good boy!

LOL, sorry.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 10/1/2008 12:27:10 PM
Author: sunnyd
I soooo feel ya elle...my FF is the same way. So unfortunately I have no sound advice to offer, because I just nag.

Does he know that it really upsets you? That sorta helps for me, or when I start cleaning in an angry-you-could-have-done-this-in-the-few-hours-you''ve-been-home way.

Oh, and positive reinforcement. Good boy cleaning his laundry up! Good boy!

LOL, sorry.

I am QUEEN of this. So he says, "Why are you so angry when you clean?"

I guess that''s what I get for being passive-aggressive.

No but seriously, I don''t know what to do. I''ve said how upset it makes me, I even sent him an article on how guys who don''t do housework get less nookie. THAT didn''t even work. That either speaks volumes on his hatred for housework, or volumes about me.

I''m sick of nagging, I''m sick of talking. I just want him to DO it. It''s like he just doesn''t see the mess!!

 

[sunnyd]

It''s so irritating. Did his mom clean everything for him when he lived at home? I know FF''s did! Stupid bad habits...you could tell him you want him to grow up, but that starts battles.

Believe me, I know.

 

[littlelysser]

I think there are a couple of things at work here.

1. Poor guy just got fired. He''s probably feeling pretty crummy. Maybe even a bit depressed. Cut him some slack.

2. And this is a gross over-generalization, but guys just don''t see mess the same way women do. Or more specifically, they have a much much higher mess tolerance. DH and I have been married for a year, living together for almost five...it is just a fact of my life. If I want him to clean something, I have to ask. And he does it. And he isn''t annoyed that I asked him, it''s just that he didn''t notice it. Now, every now and again he''ll blow my mind by emptying the dishwasher without my asking, but those surprises are few and far between.

So yeah...Unfortunately, I think you just have to accept the fact that you are going to have to ask. And maybe cut him a bit of slack...I''d imagine being fired can be a bit hard on the old ego.

 

[Cleopatra]

DH always has to be asked to do anything around the house. I''ve come to accept it as a fact of my life.

He never notices when there is a mess, but if I ask for his help, he helps without compaint.

I think he just doesn''t realize that something needs to be cleaned - yes, it''s frustrating - but men are oh so different from women.

 

[Pushin40]

Hey There Elledizzy!

My SO is a consultant, so he's home now. I hear ya.

When he's between gigs he'll do more work around the house, but the bottom line is this: He just doesn't see the same things I do. Period. I know, its weird. but he doesn't have that trigger that says "Hey - the dishwasher is clean, why don't I empty it while I'm standing here in the kitchen so my Sweetie has a nice clean kitchen to make dinner in when she gets home from work". Um - NOPE. Or "Hey, why don't I check the hamper to see if there's enough clothes to do a load of laundry...." Nuh uh.

I am a self proclaimed neat freak - eveything has its place. I run my hose very efficiently.

He's programmed differenlty, and this I know will never change. I don't let it bother me that I have to ask, I'm used to it now after liviing together for 5 years. I've accepted it.

SO always says "I take direction well" and - all I have to do is ask, or even better he loves when I leave him a Honey-do list. He prefers that so he doesn't forget. This works for us, he doesn't think I'm nagging. I have a tendancy to be passive aggressive and "angrily" do my chores, but he will always remind me to just ASK. He has never said NO. (We also have a cleaning lady since I was feeling overwhelmed and I don't think I could even teach SO how to clean a bathtub or anything major like that....and I know that totally takes away the majority of the chores.....).

And yes the positive reinforcement helps too!

Would SO beopen to the honey-do list idea? Can I ask how long you two have been living together?

 

[absolut_blonde]

It sounds like there's a bit of resentment brewing over this (understandably so!). I really think you should talk to him about it. Try not to seem as though you're attacking him -- like someone else said, he might be feeling extra vulnerable right now.

Just say something like... "I'm feeling pretty stressed out and tired between school, work and maintaining our household. I appreciate that you do help out around the house when I ask, but sometimes that makes me feel like a nag. Do you think you could try to be more pro-active about cleaning and tidying up?"

Then maybe discuss how you two can work together to make that happen. Maybe he needs some kind of schedule or chart. Some people need a bit of structure, so delegating duties (I do laundry, SO does dishes) and creating designated times (clean the bathroom every Saturday, for example) could help.

And if it's also an issue of him cleaning up after himself on a day-to-day basis, I would probably just try to explain to him that coming home to a mess like that stresses you out.

Say what you will about personality differences, but I think some of it comes down to being mindful as well. SO and I consider some things a given (most of the time... barring time or stress constraints). If the dishwasher is full of clean dishes, empty it. If the towels are all dirty, wash them. If your dirty dishes are in the living room, wash them or put them in the dishwasher. Our old roommate was terrible about these things and it drove me batty. It makes no sense to let stuff just sit around and it's not fair to the other person who comes home to it.

 

[ladypirate]

I went to a lecture where they were talking about communicating with out getting angry and one thing they talked about was asking someone to do something without nagging. They called it "DEAR MAN" (ha.) It stands for:

D: Describe the situation.
E: Express how you feel/what you think about it.
A: Assert your request.
R: Reinforce the other person for giving you what you want.

M: Stay mindful.
A: Appear confident.
N: Negotiate if needed.

Mindfulness was something else they talked about--basically, it''s like low key meditation, i.e. paying attention to what you are feeling/doing while remaining detached from it. One example he gave was "Notice that you are breathing. If your mind wanders, notice it wandering and come back to noticing your breath." Also, when you are expressing how you feel, if you say "I feel" you have to follow that with a feeling (I feel sad or I feel angry, etc.). If it is a thought, you have to say "I think". Basically, you''re not allowed to say "I feel that you''re a jerk" or "I feel like you don''t listen" because those are thoughts not feelings.

So an example of using this would be:

D: "Sweetheart, I noticed that the house has been messy the last few weeks when I''ve gotten home in the evening."
E: "When I''ve worked a long day, I''m tired when I get home and I feel overwhelmed when I come home to a messy house."
A: "I would really appreciate it if you could try to pick up while you''re here during the day..."
R: "...because when you do things around the house it makes me feel appreciated."

I hope that helps--it definitely goes beyond the basic "I statements vs. you statements".

 

[elrohwen]

I think the other posters had some great suggestions for how to talk it out and try to work things out so that you''re not mad about it all the time (which I sooo understand; I would be p*ssed). The only advice I can add is to leave him a list of things. Assuming he doesn''t say "No, I just don''t want to clean" I think it could be a great way for you to let him know what needs to get done. And it''s not the same as nagging because you''re not constantly telling him what to do, you''re just leaving a list. I hope you guys work out a system because I know that it''s no fun to come home to a dirty messy house when someone was home and could''ve cleaned up a bit.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

Date: 10/1/2008 1:24:13 PM
Author: ladypirate
I went to a lecture where they were talking about communicating with out getting angry and one thing they talked about was asking someone to do something without nagging. They called it ''DEAR MAN'' (ha.) It stands for:

D: Describe the situation.
E: Express how you feel/what you think about it.
A: Assert your request.
R: Reinforce the other person for giving you what you want.

M: Stay mindful.
A: Appear confident.
N: Negotiate if needed.

Mindfulness was something else they talked about--basically, it''s like low key meditation, i.e. paying attention to what you are feeling/doing while remaining detached from it. One example he gave was ''Notice that you are breathing. If your mind wanders, notice it wandering and come back to noticing your breath.'' Also, when you are expressing how you feel, if you say ''I feel'' you have to follow that with a feeling (I feel sad or I feel angry, etc.). If it is a thought, you have to say ''I think''. Basically, you''re not allowed to say ''I feel that you''re a jerk'' or ''I feel like you don''t listen'' because those are thoughts not feelings.

So an example of using this would be:

D: ''Sweetheart, I noticed that the house has been messy the last few weeks when I''ve gotten home in the evening.''
E: ''When I''ve worked a long day, I''m tired when I get home and I feel overwhelmed when I come home to a messy house.''
A: ''I would really appreciate it if you could try to pick up while you''re here during the day...''
R: ''...because when you do things around the house it makes me feel appreciated.''

I hope that helps--it definitely goes beyond the basic ''I statements vs. you statements''.

Thank you. I found that really helpful. I will try that in the future. Sometimes my boyfriend does things that really bother me, and I tell him to stop, and he keeps doing it because he thinks it''s teasing or playing. He can''t tell the difference in the things that are playful annoying and the things that are just plain annoying.

 

[Lauren8211]

Littlelysser: Yes, I''m trying to cut him some slack. I let him sit at home all week last week and watch TV and pout and be depressed, and I cleaned. We''re nearing the end of week 2, and I''m having trouble keeping it together. I can''t do everything. I am trying not to be critical of him right now, but he''s home ALL day. I''m starting to think he should cut ME some slack, and get off his butt!

I''ve noticed that he just doesn''t see messes. But it''s funny, he sees my messes. If I leave my flat iron plugged in (not ON, just plugged in), he zeroes RIGHT in on it, yet he doesnt notice all his crap all over the bedroom or living room. It''s selective, it seems!

I really hate feeling like a nag. You''re right though, I guess I just have to ask.

Cleopatra: I know I just need to come to terms with the fact that he is not like me, and messes don''t stress him out. He barely notices them. It''s just SO hard. I would KILL to come home to a clean house, just once. You don''t even know!!

Pushin40: FF is missing that trigger, too! We are polar opposites in how we think. I''m a "just get it done" type person who doesnt like procrastinating. FF will just wait and wait and wait, and even to the point where he screws himself over. It''s almost self-destructive at times. I''ve tried to help him work on it, but obviously he has to want it. I can''t fix it for him. I will discuss with him about making a list. Although, I think we''ve talked about it once before, and he said he''ll probably forget to check the list.

. We''ve got to do something, I''ll try it again.

Asbolut: I''ve given him the stressed out talk before, and how I hate nagging. It just doesnt click. I guess we just have to sit down again and talk. This is the issue in our realtionship that just doesn''t die! I guess I got too excited (not the best word choice, but I couldnt think of a better one) about having him home all day, and that he could clean more to help me out. I think sometimes I build up my own expectations, and then get let down when he doesnt meet them, because he had no idea what they were. If I were home everyday, the house would be spotless, and I''d have dinner on the table. He doesnt think like that, and when I hold him up to what I''d do, I get disappointed, and then angry with him. I guess that''s not fair.

ladypirate: That is really helpful. I try to use the "I feel" and I end up saying "I feel like you''re an insensitive jerk!" haha. I guess they should be a bit more focused.

I guess it''s time for another talk, and I''ll keep your "DEAR MAN" thing in mind. It seems very helpful!!

I''m feeling better already. I''m glad I''m not alone in this struggle to get men to clean.

PS - When I went home on lunch, the dishwasher was emptied. Go figure!

 

[IloveAsschers13]

Hello!!

I was afraid I was going to have this problem with my boyfriend so I basically forewarned him. I consider myself to be some what of a feminist, and I have ALWAYS made it clear that it IS NOT the women''s job to do housework every night. At first he huffed and puffed when I said hey, I made dinner the past four nights, you can do this one without complaining. And he actually did notice how he was complaining. We also try to clean together.. I mean deep cleaning anyways. Once a week, or once every two weeks, we clean at the same time so we divvy up the chores doing it at the same time.

I guess it was just something that I made sure he knew was really important to me, as long as we did eveything pretty equally. Especially since we have around the same amount of classes, but I do work 25 hours a week on top of that, so I just make sure to say.. hey will you do this and his while I am gone.

A pet peeve of mine is having the bed fixed... I just end up doing it myself, because he just doesn''t understand how much tidier the room looks!!! I wish you the best of luck, and hopefully your SO does find a job soon and he can once again be more active!!

 

[Calla18]

I rarely post but I had to respond to this! Housework has been a major bone of contention in my house. Hunny and I have lived together for 2.5 yrs and have never seen eye to eye on how to divy it up. For Ex. he thinks if I cook I should be cleaning at the same time, and I believe if I''m cooking the least he could do is clean. I am also taking 18 credits and working part time, he is starting a construction co. and get winters off. So I would come home completely worn out and still have to do laundry and feed the cats and clean on my precious days off. The way we have solved this problem was by getting a maid! She comes once every 3 weeks and we both pick up in between. It''s cheaper then we thought it would be ($80) and we split it. To us, it''s worth every penny to come home to a clean house and get to spend that extra time just loving eachother instead of arguing about the dishes.
I know this isn''t an option for everyone but my point is sometimes you have to find a way to agree to disagree and come to an option that works for you two.

Good Luck I know how frusterating this is.

 

[ladypirate]

Another idea--we got a new washing machine that is all gadget-y and SO loves it so much that I''ve only done 2 loads of laundry since! He''s big into tech-y stuff, though.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

hmm, this is a toughie. I do understand because my husband is taking a break from his career and I''m the one working, but the benefit to our situation is that we were able to discuss his new daily chores before he stopped working.

Also, I tink what helped us is that a.) D can''t stand sitting on the sofa or sleeping in, so he''s easily motivated and b.) he understands that while his level of clean isn''t the same as my level of clean, it''s only fair to help me out since my plate is more full.

What I did was create a list of daily chores: vacuuming, taking out the trash, unloading the dishwasher, etc. that way I didn''t have to write him a list EVERY day. If I need something additional done (like laundry) I just ask politely.

Also, I don''t give him a hard time if the chores aren''t done when I get home. I don''t mind doing them every so often (he has a full-time class schedule, so he is understandably busy sometimes), so there is no "nagging" on my part.

Nobody likes chores, but if he''s home during the day he needs to pull his weight. I''d ask him how much time he thinks he can devote to doing a few chores during the day (because I know looking for a job can be very time-intensive) and then work with the chores he doesn''t mind doing. It sounds like you don''t expect for him to do them all, so giving him the flexibility to chooes the ones he wants based on his schedule might be the way to go.

 

[fieryred33143]

Hi elle

I'm glad to hear he has a job almost lined up! Dust for him!!

Have you mentioned this to him? My FI used to do the same. He never cleaned on his own, ever (not even at his mom's house). I finally sat him down and explained it was a matter of respect. I'm helping him pay the bills. I work hard. And I'm tired. It's the same for him. So it isn't fair that on top of everything I do, I also have to be the one to clean while he gets to come home and have the rest of the day "off." He honestly didn't think it was that big of a deal until I mentioned it. He still has never cleaned the entire house himself but he tries. He washes the dishes once or twice a month (he hates dishes) and will clean up the living room if he sees it really messy. He still doesn't do the bedroom but he does clean "his" office which he normally never cleaned.

ETA: Just reread that you have talked to him. I would start assigning chores then. Once or twice a week say "I'm going to clean x, y, and z can you do a, b, and c?" until he gets in the habit of doing it himself.

 

[Lauren8211]

ILA13: I''ve expressed it, and honestly, he doesn''t *not* clean on purpose (whoa, double negative). He just doesnt see things the way I do. I wish I could get him to understand that when I have 4 hours of reading ahead of me for the night, I can''t focus unless the apartment is clean. It''s too much of a distraction. I really want to get this problem out of the way as it has been going on since we moved in together in March of 2007. Hopefully he gets a job soon, if he pays more of the bills then I''ll have no problem cleaning more.

Calla: Ohhh my goodness. If FF thought I should ever be cleaning and cooking for him at the same time while he sits on his butt, he would get it!!! A maid would be an awesome idea, but we are just not in any sort of financial situation that would allow us to do that. But I am seriously considering it for when we''re both making some money!

ladypirate: Ohhhh!!! Lucky! We live in an apartment that has community laundry, so no fun machines for us. And we rent, so it''s not like I can get a cool stainless steel dishwasher that he''d love. Maybe I can find a robot that will clean with him...???

NEL: If he was job searching, I''d even be a little more lenient. He''s got a job pretty much lined up, and he''s definitely not sending out resumes or searching. He''s waiting it out on this job (which I disagree with him about, but thats a whole different thread!). So he''s really just at home watching TV and playing on his computer. I really think I will implement the list. So many people have suggested it, so I''m hoping that''s the best thing

Fiery:

Hi to you too! I think we''ll have to start assigning chores, and intermingle that with a list. I feel like an elementary school teacher, like I need gold stars to give him when he completes a chore!

I''m going to have to bring this all up tonight. Or just let him read the thread. HA!

 

[purrfectpear]

First of all, men don''t get a pass because their egos might be out of joint since they became unemployed. Nope, not gonna happen.

Secondly, as you said you''ve tried talking, reminding, asking, etc. and it only results in you feeling like the nagging mommy. I can relate.

Now it''s time for the two of you to sit down and write down all the chores that need to be done daily, weekly, monthly. Then the two of you decide who is doing what. No more talking or reminding. You won''t have to tell him to vacuum because that is HIS JOB. He wouldn''t have to tell you to dust because that is YOUR JOB, etc.

Lists, they''ve saved many a marriage.

 

[Pandora II]

I think you need to make sure you are both on board about what makes you happy ''state of house'' wise.

For example, I can''t bear being in a super-tidy house, It makes me feel nervous - I need a certain amount of clutter around. DH luckily is fairly similar.

I HATE housework and so we pay for a cleaner every week - she also irons. Hooray!

It is impossible to make a neat freak out of someone who is untidy by nature I''m afraid.

I had an ex who used to come home and slam about tidying up angrily everywhere - it was part of the reason that he is an ex. We were never going to see eye to eye on this and my compromise of tidying up once a week rather than every other wasn''t good enough...