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Gaurdianship or conservatorship or ?

TooPatient

TooPatient

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 1, 2009
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Has anyone had to deal with setting up guardianship or conservatorship or similar when caring for a relative with health issues including dementia? Any insight, tips, things to ask about, or anything else you found helpful would be much appreciated. Difficult decisions are coming and another attorney consultation is coming up soon. I have no idea how long this sort of process takes or what to expect as far as expenses for the process go. She doesn't see her mind as confused as it is. She is still quite sure she can do everything herself and just lets people help her because they make a fuss. (Far far from reality, sadly.)
 
I know it’s a case by case basis. Many years ago my ex husband and I were in this situation with his father who was a stubborn man who could not except that once his wife died he could not take care of himself. He was in his 80’s and HIV positive from a blood transfusion he had back before screening improved. We had to get a lawyer and petition the court for power of attorney and that basically allowed us to make medical decisions and help manage his finances. It’s tough when they don’t want the help and you feel as though you are fighting a loosing battle. The lawyer was a few thousand but this was at least 10 years ago and I think she filed for the case to be heard on an emergency basis ,we had our hearing within a few days.
 
I’ll also add, this is not for the faint of hearts, it can be very emotionally draining. I had to quit my job at the time. I hope all goes well with your case and you’re able to get everything done. Keep us posted.
 
Hopefully you are picking a lawyer that is well versed or specializes in elder care and has many good reviews.

If your loved one will not /cannot consent to the proceedings - it gets stickier.
Local laws differ from area to area - which makes it difficult to research and find what’s ‘right’ for your situation.

Best wishes to you.
 
Is the dementia an official diagnosis and part of her medical record?
 
marymm said:
Is the dementia an official diagnosis and part of her medical record?
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Part of a different diagnosed disease. The advanced stages often (always?) include a type of dementia. I'm not too clear how much is documented in the medical record. The person petitioning is and has been POA both medically and everything else for a number of years and been managing everything. This wouldn't even be a question except there is another in the picture who may have manipulated things to change control over to them. (Which would be catastrophic as they are exceptionally irresponsible in every way possible, but I won't go into all those details.)
 
It sounds like you've already had some conversations with an attorney in the state the relative lives and they have explained to you the differences between having the durable POA, a guardianship and a conservatorship in that state. So you probably need an attorney to walk you through the process and what you can expect based on whether the relative co-operates or not.
 
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Lookinagain said:
It sounds like you've already had some conversations with an attorney in the state the relative lives and they have explained to you the differences between having the durable POA, a guardianship and a conservatorship in that state. So you probably need an attorney to walk you through the process and what you can expect based on whether the relative co-operates or not.
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Minimally. Basically, the person who is POA knows POA. The short consult ended with almost no information and a bit of a concerning path. I am helping her learn enough to ask questions at the meeting with the attorney next week so that she can understand the differences and what the path would be.
 
So sad, you hear about this all the time. People taking advantage and a lot of the times the responsible family doesn’t have much recourse. Maybe focus more on the mental capacity to give consent. The way the law works usually is that if she or he is considered able to make choices for themselves,nothing can be done if that person moves power of attorney to someone else. The law favors freedom over one’s self but maybe talking to the doctors to better understand the side effects of the diagnosis so you could take it that route. It’s really hard no matter which way you dice it.
 
This is unfortunately a fairly common thing - people trying to gain control of another's finances for some percieved financial benefit.

In your case, the problem is someone is trying to get the person to change POA over to them. The issue is if the person in question is deemed capable of handling their own affairs, they can change to whoever they want for their POA. I don't think anybody has any control over that. You might have to focus on the person's mental state and ability to make good decisions for themselves. It might be a matter of having the person declared incompetent. I'm not really familiar with that process but I think that would be something to discuss with a lawyer. I'm sorry you're dealing with this stressful and worrying situation!
 
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junebug17 said:
Ditto @SandraLynn, this is unfortunately a fairly common thing - people trying to gain control of another's finances for some percieved financial benefit.

In your case, the problem is someone is trying to get the person to change POA over to them. The issue is if the person in question is deemed capable of handling their own affairs, they can change to whoever they want for their POA. I don't think anybody has any control over that. Again ditto SandraLynn, you might have to focus on the person's mental state and ability to make good decisions for themselves. It might be a matter of having the person declared incompetent. I'm not really familiar with that process but I think that would be something to discuss with a lawyer. Sorry you're dealing with this stressful and worrying situation.
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I’m not the OP @TooPatient is the one currently going through this and my post were my thoughts based on going through something similar years ago. Maybe you mixed up the names.
 
I just went through something similar. Father has dementia and a ton of health issues, but firmly in denial. He was not only a risk to himself but others which is why I stepped in.

Was able to get rid of his car and essentially had to coerce my father into nursing care in lieu of guardianship, but even that was extremely challenging so I really empathize. It sounds ugly, but I had to get him to register that he had no other options and it was not pleasant. I had to leave FMLA from work for 3 weeks to balance it all, and it was just horrible. Take leave if you can if it gets too complicated.

I have few words of wisdom other than - get a great attorney. If they aren’t immediately responsive move on.

To help paint a picture of costs, even applying to Medicaid, and establishing POA (medical & financial) and support with managing my fathers estate (which was minimal - estate almost feels silly) cost us $4,900 in rural Midwest. Good luck and take care of yourself
 
junebug17 said:
@SandraLynn, I was just basically saying I was agreeing with you LOL - I edited my post to avoid any confusion!
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I think I just read it all bunched together and wasn’t piecing it out. Sorry and thank you.
 
junebug17 said:
This is unfortunately a fairly common thing - people trying to gain control of another's finances for some percieved financial benefit.

In your case, the problem is someone is trying to get the person to change POA over to them. The issue is if the person in question is deemed capable of handling their own affairs, they can change to whoever they want for their POA. I don't think anybody has any control over that. You might have to focus on the person's mental state and ability to make good decisions for themselves. It might be a matter of having the person declared incompetent. I'm not really familiar with that process but I think that would be something to discuss with a lawyer. I'm sorry you're dealing with this stressful and worrying situation!
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I need to remind her to ask about this again. The incompetent approach is what I had suggested early on. She is, sadly, not competent anymore. She has some clear times. Other times she can remember some small obsessed on details. Then the weeks I was caring for her out of area, she didn't know the woman we were staying with (her sister). It is, sadly, getting worse and worse. The POA doesn't want more authority or anything, just wants to ensure it is not handed to someone who will spend through what little assets she has.
 
TooPatient said:
I need to remind her to ask about this again. The incompetent approach is what I had suggested early on. She is, sadly, not competent anymore. She has some clear times. Other times she can remember some small obsessed on details. Then the weeks I was caring for her out of area, she didn't know the woman we were staying with (her sister). It is, sadly, getting worse and worse. The POA doesn't want more authority or anything, just wants to ensure it is not handed to someone who will spend through what little assets she has.
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If you could, I would try to document this. Video or audio to give the courts a clear understanding of what is going on. If your family members seems fine or competent the day it comes time for an evaluation, that could make all the difference. Just an idea.
 
If you haven't already, I suggest checking out the Adult Protective Services and/or Elder Abuse agencies in the relevant geographic area -- the websites may well have resource lists of attorneys/professionals as well as other helpful information specific to the state/county.

I know you are being careful/limited with the specific facts, but is the person with dementia still living independently or does he/she have a daily caregiver or live in assisted living/facility?
 
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SandraLynn said:
If you could, I would try to document this. Video or audio to give the courts a clear understanding of what is going on. If your family members seems fine or competent the day it comes time for an evaluation, that could make all the difference. Just an idea.
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Great idea! I don't know the laws for recording in this state and what is required as far as consent to use in courts, but the attorney should know.
 
marymm said:
If you haven't already, I suggest checking out the Adult Protective Services and/or Elder Abuse agencies in the relevant geographic area -- the websites may well have resource lists of attorneys/professionals as well as other helpful information specific to the state/county.
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I had forgotten about them. Thank you!
 
I believe you would be fine taking a simple video of you engaging with someone otherwise I’m not sure how social media has done so well. Unless the person asks you to stop and I doubt that would happen if your family member can’t remember much at certain times. In public you have no right to privacy and can record but I suggest looking into It more if it makes you more comfortable.

IMG_0192.jpeg
 
I am guardian for my 29 year old daughter. It is a situation to be avoided if at all possible because the court will have jurisdiction over the sale of assets. There are 2 types—guardian of the person and guardian of the estate. You have to report annually to the court. The rules/interpretation of rules has changed based on the party of the judge, and have made life a bit difficult. My daughter has been my ward since 2011 when she turned 18. They will visit every 2 years to make sure the ward is cared for properly. This info is specific to Texas.
 
If the person is still living independently, i.e., in their own home and without live-in/daily caregiving help, then it would be difficult to prove that person is unable to make their own decisions (even decisions seemingly against their best interest).

If the person already is in a living situation where he/she is assisted daily with ADLs (activities of daily living), and even more so if that care has been recommended/prescribed and documented as necessary by his/her medical professionals, there is a better chance of success at court if it comes to that.
 
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marymm said:
If the person is still living independently, i.e., in their own home and without live-in/daily caregiving help, then it would be difficult to prove that person is unable to make their own decisions (even decisions seemingly against their best interest).

If the person already is in a living situation where he/she is assisted daily with ADLs (activities of daily living), and even more so if that care has been recommended/prescribed and documented as necessary by his/her medical professionals, there is a better chance of success at court if it comes to that.
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In her home, but requires round the clock care and help for even the most basic of personal care.
 
@marymm has a good point. I’m sure someone is already governing the care to at least make sure things are being paid. Also assuming the family member has the money to continue their care? If so, a new person coming in the way of a system that’s working, hopefully the court will recognize that
 
Mrsz1ppy said:
I am guardian for my 29 year old daughter. It is a situation to be avoided if at all possible because the court will have jurisdiction over the sale of assets. There are 2 types—guardian of the person and guardian of the estate. You have to report annually to the court. The rules/interpretation of rules has changed based on the party of the judge, and have made life a bit difficult. My daughter has been my ward since 2011 when she turned 18. They will visit every 2 years to make sure the ward is cared for properly. This info is specific to Texas.
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Thank you for sharing! That sounds awfully difficult. I'm sorry you are in a situation like that.
 
SandraLynn said:
@marymm has a good point. I’m sure someone is already governing the care to at least make sure things are being paid. Also assuming the family member has the money to continue their care? If so, a new person coming in the way of a system that’s working, hopefully the court will recognize that
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The current poa is managing everything. The one she wants changed to can't even manage to pay her own bills on time and has missed all sorts of deadlines and court dates related to her own stuff. A true mess.

Care is payed for by the savings of the person in question and managed by the current person. Continued care depends on carefully managing and selling a property and some other assets. The existing level of care is already around 15-20k per month and will likely only increase so none of us have the ability to sustain it without using her assets for her care. The complete mess has managed to drive most family who had been helping away or those costs could be reduced to stretch her savings further.
 
@TooPatient i dont have anything relavent to add other than thinking of you and your unwell family member at this time

'Thankfully' in our case our mother stepped out in front of a car (very mildly hurt but enough to be addmitted into hospital and got the offical process moving)
 
I apologize for any odd spellings, punctuation, or other weirdness. My new phone and I are still adjusting and the auto correct features tend to do all sorts of odd things. Not the least of which was asking DH to go out and roast Mama Hen :eek-2:
 
So the ill person is requesting that a new POA be made naming the less-responsible person?

If there is not a new POA, then the current POA is active and the less-responsible person has no legal power to act on behalf of the ill person. Without legal documentation the less-responsible person should be unable to do anything.

Or, did the less-responsible person already somehow obtain a new POA "legally signed" by the ill person? Only if there's a new signed POA would you need to go to court to challenge ...
 
Hi,

I take it this person has made out a will. I would think that the POA was made at that time. Is there a POA for healthcare and a power of Attorney for Financial matters. I have both.
If the person is incompetent to handle her affairs, and if she needs 24 hr care, you should have no problem asking her Drs to write that she is incompetent. Once she is medically declared incompetent she can no longer change her existing POA. Where would she get the documents now to do such a thing.?
Any individual that is spending 15-20 thousand a month on care could save money by going to a nursing home $8.000 a month. If, as it appears to me that you are fine with existing POA, just talk to her doctors. Frankly, I think something is missing from this discussion.. They have competency tests, you know.

Annette

My son and my ex-husband have conspired to get guardianship over me. My niece has POA healthcare and property. I was shocked looking at the correspondence.

.
 
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