Got a nice little eternity, would like some help figuring out marks and stuff!

[chappy]

So I took a chance based on these seller's photos:


It turned up way nicer than expected:



Even has some sort of arrows (I think?? super difficult to get photos at this size):


And now it'd make my day if I can figure out all the marks in it (calling on PS help)!



So GPM or CPM (or OPM??), then some blobby bat thing, then 750, and an anchor.
I got that 750 means gold and the anchor means it was assayed in Burmingham, UK, but I'm coming up empty on everything else. I would guess the bat blob is the year, perhaps, but it's really faded and I can't make it out. How old is this ring likely to be?

---

Bonus question: Since the ring is half/half colored gold, does that narrow down the methods of production (cast vs hand-forged), or not really? Does anything else about the ring clue in to how it was made?

Bonus questions #2: How much should it cost to resize a half eternity down properly (within 2 sizes)? I've been quoted $250, which is basically the cost of the ring, which doesn't seem worth the hassle...

Thanks!

 

[Lykame]

Beautiful ring!

Agree Birmingham Assay Office in the UK.

This is difficult.

I think the assay mark in that particular orientation has to be from the year 2000 or onwards. There's no obvious date mark, which would agree with that as it was no longer compulsory after 1999 to hallmark the date.

I wonder whether that funny blob is meant to be a crown, which can still be used to denote gold (it used to be compulsory to denote whether gold was imported or not imported and they would use the crown for non-imported stuff). It's really lost its shape. I don't think it's a letter anyway. The crown I think was only mandatory between 1975 and 1998 but it can still be used. It made me wonder if the ring was hallmarked between those dates because that's usually when you see the crown but there's no date letter so it doesn't fit. And I have definitely seen the crown can still be used.

It's 18 carat gold.

Err the maker's mark... Let me think about that.

Can't do the bonus questions sorry.

 

[chappy]

@Lykame thanks for your attempt!
Is it possible the blobby thing is the date mark? Or does the date mark go in a certain order on the stamps?

Tried to take some better pics today:

I'm referring to this pdf: http://webarchive.nationalarchives....ingcouncil.gov.uk/publications/hallmarks2.pdf

It does start to look like that could be a little crown in front of the 750! And it certainly looks to be CPM, but still no clue what that means. If it's a more recent piece, surely if CPM is the maker's mark there should be some information about them around? Does a missing datemark necessarily mean it is 2000's+?

Somehow this piece feels really old to me, the prongs are not completely symmetrical under loupe, which makes me think it's handmade:

Yet the prongs are really delicate and tightly packed, as if it had time to 'settle'. Plus the sheer number of fine scratches all over it seems it was worn a really long time! It's got a pretty solid heft, for such a tiny thing that's not in plat. Overall it appears to be a well-made piece, so the maker, if recent, should still be around?

 

[Lykame]

@Lykame thanks for your attempt!
Is it possible the blobby thing is the date mark? Or does the date mark go in a certain order on the stamps?

Tried to take some better pics today:

I'm referring to this pdf: http://webarchive.nationalarchives....ingcouncil.gov.uk/publications/hallmarks2.pdf

It does start to look like that could be a little crown in front of the 750! And it certainly looks to be CPM, but still no clue what that means. If it's a more recent piece, surely if CPM is the maker's mark there should be some information about them around? Does a missing datemark necessarily mean it is 2000's+?

Somehow this piece feels really old to me, the prongs are not completely symmetrical under loupe, which makes me think it's handmade:

Yet the prongs are really delicate and tightly packed, as if it had time to 'settle'. Plus the sheer number of fine scratches all over it seems it was worn a really long time! It's got a pretty solid heft, for such a tiny thing that's not in plat. Overall it appears to be a well-made piece, so the maker, if recent, should still be around?

Oooh I definitely think it's a crown especially in that last picture.

It was a legal requirement to have a date mark before 2000 so although the crown with the 750 would suggest between 1975 and 1998 I don't see how it could be that. I saw a reference where it seemed to suggest that the crown could still be used if wished.

Also the Birmingham Assay mark was a certain orientation depending on the year, so older ones tended to have upright anchors rather than sideways ones. That would also fit with 2000+.

It definitely looks well worn. The prongs were probably hand done I would imagine (aren't all prongs?). But if this were made in 2000 that's 18 years and if it were worn every day... That's not a short amount of time for 18 carat gold, which is quite soft.

I have looked for CPM and I can't find it. It definitely looks like CPM in your new pictures. You could email the Birmingham Assay office and ask, they sometimes help with such things (and sometimes don't).

 

[chappy]

Oooh I definitely think it's a crown especially in that last picture.

It was a legal requirement to have a date mark before 2000 so although the crown with the 750 would suggest between 1975 and 1998 I don't see how it could be that. I saw a reference where it seemed to suggest that the crown could still be used if wished.

Also the Birmingham Assay mark was a certain orientation depending on the year, so older ones tended to have upright anchors rather than sideways ones. That would also fit with 2000+.

It definitely looks well worn. The prongs were probably hand done I would imagine (aren't all prongs?). But if this were made in 2000 that's 18 years and if it were worn every day... That's not a short amount of time for 18 carat gold, which is quite soft.

I have looked for CPM and I can't find it. It definitely looks like CPM in your new pictures. You could email the Birmingham Assay office and ask, they sometimes help with such things (and sometimes don't).

Contacting the office directly! A bold suggestion but interesting, I've certainly got nothing to lose.

It just looks so much more worn than my other 18k gold jewelry, which were from before 2000 and worn daily!

I thought for melee, sometimes prongs are pre-cast, or there was some way to tell between cast-helped vs completely handmade prongs, but didn't find enough information about it.

Can you link me the reference for Birmingham Assay mark's different orientation, if you have it? That sounds very interesting!

I wonder why they stopped with the year hallmarks though, it's a nice point of info to have. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Lykame]

Hopefully I'm allowed to post this, but there is an email in this page that you can also email that might help:

https://www.assayofficelondon.co.uk/other-services/trace-a-hallmark

I know it's London but they might help.

https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Dates/Birmingham.html

Do you see? It's only turned to the left from 2000 onwards.

I'm sorry I can't explain the wear and I know nothing really about the manufacturing of rings. Someone more knowledgeable may chip in with something that dates it as older.

Keep this thread updated with your discoveries!

 

[Stone Hunter]

It’s a stunning band. I just paid $100 USD to have an 18K ring sized up about 1 size. My ring is vintage so that has its own issues. Hope that helps.

 

[Austina]

I paid $60 to have a platinum ring sized up.

 

[chappy]

@Stone Hunter , @Austina , thanks for the info! Did your rings have any melee? That is what they quoted me as being expensive.

@Lykame ooh you're right!! The sideways anchor does seem to indicate 2000's, how interesting! Thanks for the links, I've sent them an email and will see if they reply!

As for the manufacturing details, I also know nothing about it except what I gleaned from this older thread:

The easiest way to tell the difference is to look carefully at the metal between the beads. In the traditional method, this will be a cut surface. With the modern methods it will be a cast surface.

That seems really straightforward but unfortunately it still went over my head! Would love further explanation on how to tell the difference between cut and cast surfaces!

 

[Austina]

Ah, sorry @chappy , my bad, no, my ring was a plain shank.

 

[Stone Hunter]

Mine has small diamonds in the setting but they are not really on the shank. I have been told that sizing an eternity is very difficult. If I were you I would stack it so size isn't as much of an issue. You can always have it sized at a later time.

 

[pierrotlunette]

Oooh I definitely think it's a crown especially in that last picture.

Also the Birmingham Assay mark was a certain orientation depending on the year, so older ones tended to have upright anchors rather than sideways ones. That would also fit with 2000+.
.

Chappy - that's a beautiful band! Also - I don't mean to thread hijack, but Lykame said something about the older Birmingham Assay mark having an upright anchor vs. the sideways anchor seen on your band. Might that be what I'm seeing inside this band? I asked on the main forum but didn't have much luck there.

 

[Lykame]

Hi @pierrotlunette!

Firstly I'm really not very good at this kinda stuff.

However:

I'm not really getting 'anchor' from that symbol to be honest. It's also very lacking in marks - it's clearly saying platinum, and then that other one is possibly an assay office. But there's no purity mark for the platinum (like 950, 900, etc)? Where are you from? Anyway, unless this ring is from before 1975, it wasn't marked in the UK, as it doesn't meet the legal requirements here (unless there are other marks on it elsewhere). And certainly that isn't a UK Assay office. I also don't think it's a dating letter.

To me that makes me think of an alternative country. Please provide more details and perhaps it will be possible to dig something up?

Thanks!

 

[Lykame]

@chappy,

Two things:

Firstly, did you ever find out anything more about that band?

Secondly, and more importantly - tell me more about your hamster? Is s/he a Campbell or a Winter White? Or I guess likely hybrid if bought at a pet shop. Anyway, that is an amazing photo, I'm not sure how you managed that as they are speedy creatures. I used to have a Winter White (well probably hybrid) who was awesome, and now I have a dove/mink coloured Campbell who is also awesome. Your photo makes me smile. And awe-bound - my photos are all blurs, apart from once! And that involved a pumpkin seed...

Sorry not sorry to digress off the subject of hallmarking.

 

[chappy]

@pierrotlunette haha I'm watching that same band on ebay! I don't believe it's a UK ring, as the seller is from US.

@Lykame oh don't get me started on my hamster, she's the hammiest ham that ever hammed. I adopted her from the SPCA over two years ago! Crazy how time flies. She should be some sort of hybrid sapphire winter white, either way she's just the calmest sweetest thing ever.

here's a video of her being cute:

here she is learning a trick:

here's another trick:

here's her falling asleep during a petting session:

and one more of her just being the calmest sweetest thing:

Plus about a thousand photos elsewhere hahahaha

I actually tried to use the ring in this thread as a crown prop for her majesty, except she was all DO NOT WANT.

These photos are blurry but sure cracked me up! That expression.

And, yes! I did find out more about the band, I wasn't sure if it was worth updating the thread since it's still inconclusive. Basically the super nice people over at the assay office london connected me with the ever pleasant Alex from the assay office birmingham, and he told me CPM stood for Cookson Precious Metals, as well as mentioning it's most likely dated after 1999 (as you said), if the absence of the date letter was not in error (no way to determine). I then contacted Cookson Precious Metals for further inquiry, and they said it appears whoever purchased it bought two different rings, cut them in half, and then drilled their own holes in the white half.

These two rings, most likely:

I wasn't able to find out who actually made the ring as there's no other markings, and I'll never know... it puzzles me why they'd cut it like that, what do they do with the other half rings? They can't make another similar eternity, unless they drill where the hallmark goes (since the other half of the white ring would have the hallmarks, and the yellow half would have no marks), OR drill the holes into the yellow half and set... yellow diamonds? That would be an odd design choice.

Cookson Precious Metals also sell melee diamonds, so I'm going to guess that's also where my stones came from! They only sell G/vs, H/si, and H/i, and I'm going to guess it's the G/vs because I can't find anything under my loupe and the stones are quite white next to my F diamond. However, they're melee so who knows!

In any case, I've been thoroughly enjoying the piece, and get a lot of wear out of it! It's very well made, very comfortable, and beats the pants off mall rings costing twice the price. I also really like the yellow half because even if it turns, it's still interesting to look at. I don't think I'll be resizing it though, my middle finger has grown quite fond of it.

 

[pierrotlunette]

Hi @pierrotlunette!

Firstly I'm really not very good at this kinda stuff.

However:

I'm not really getting 'anchor' from that symbol to be honest. It's also very lacking in marks - it's clearly saying platinum, and then that other one is possibly an assay office. But there's no purity mark for the platinum (like 950, 900, etc)? Where are you from? Anyway, unless this ring is from before 1975, it wasn't marked in the UK, as it doesn't meet the legal requirements here (unless there are other marks on it elsewhere). And certainly that isn't a UK Assay office. I also don't think it's a dating letter.

To me that makes me think of an alternative country. Please provide more details and perhaps it will be possible to dig something up?

Thanks!

Thanks for the responses, Chappy and Lykame! And Chappy, you have a great eye...we are watching the same band! I don't really need it, but I got really curious about the hallmark. Also - I'm in love with your hamster. You've clearly handled her with much love for her to be so trusting!

Lykame - the band is on Ebay (U.S.). There's unfortunately very little other info. about it in the seller's description. Thank you for trying to help, though!

 

[Lykame]

@chappy!

Ok so I have died at how beautiful and glorious and gorgeous your hamster is, she is lovely and SO CALM! Love her! What a special little lady.

What food is it that she is so enamoured with?

My first hamster Artus (Artie) was very gentle and reasonably calm. My current hamster Ignatius (don't ask) is very skittish and would jump but he is so much better now and comes to my hand and his name. If I take him out he is a bit freaked but does settle, and he's never bitten. He's a beautiful little guy and I'm so proud of the progress he has made. Ongoing work in progress!

That is so cool about the information on your ring and I'm glad the assay offices were so kind and helpful and able to point you in the manufacturer's direction! So strange they would meld two rings... Maybe something happened to the original damaging it and this was the solution. Hmm! Thanks for updating us!

 

[Lykame]

Thanks for the responses, Chappy and Lykame! And Chappy, you have a great eye...we are watching the same band! I don't really need it, but I got really curious about the hallmark. Also - I'm in love with your hamster. You've clearly handled her with much love for her to be so trusting!

Lykame - the band is on Ebay (U.S.). There's unfortunately very little other info. about it in the seller's description. Thank you for trying to help, though!

Ok! I will try and do more digging then, a bit later on. a shame the USA doesn't appear to be part of the convention that enforces more hallmarks for easier identification!

 

[Lykame]

@pierrotlunette haha I'm watching that same band on ebay! I don't believe it's a UK ring, as the seller is from US.

@Lykame oh don't get me started on my hamster, she's the hammiest ham that ever hammed. I adopted her from the SPCA over two years ago! Crazy how time flies. She should be some sort of hybrid sapphire winter white, either way she's just the calmest sweetest thing ever.

here's a video of her being cute:

here she is learning a trick:

here's another trick:

here's her falling asleep during a petting session:

and one more of her just being the calmest sweetest thing:

Plus about a thousand photos elsewhere hahahaha

I actually tried to use the ring in this thread as a crown prop for her majesty, except she was all DO NOT WANT.

These photos are blurry but sure cracked me up! That expression.

And, yes! I did find out more about the band, I wasn't sure if it was worth updating the thread since it's still inconclusive. Basically the super nice people over at the assay office london connected me with the ever pleasant Alex from the assay office birmingham, and he told me CPM stood for Cookson Precious Metals, as well as mentioning it's most likely dated after 1999 (as you said), if the absence of the date letter was not in error (no way to determine). I then contacted Cookson Precious Metals for further inquiry, and they said it appears whoever purchased it bought two different rings, cut them in half, and then drilled their own holes in the white half.

These two rings, most likely:

I wasn't able to find out who actually made the ring as there's no other markings, and I'll never know... it puzzles me why they'd cut it like that, what do they do with the other half rings? They can't make another similar eternity, unless they drill where the hallmark goes (since the other half of the white ring would have the hallmarks, and the yellow half would have no marks), OR drill the holes into the yellow half and set... yellow diamonds? That would be an odd design choice.

Cookson Precious Metals also sell melee diamonds, so I'm going to guess that's also where my stones came from! They only sell G/vs, H/si, and H/i, and I'm going to guess it's the G/vs because I can't find anything under my loupe and the stones are quite white next to my F diamond. However, they're melee so who knows!

In any case, I've been thoroughly enjoying the piece, and get a lot of wear out of it! It's very well made, very comfortable, and beats the pants off mall rings costing twice the price. I also really like the yellow half because even if it turns, it's still interesting to look at. I don't think I'll be resizing it though, my middle finger has grown quite fond of it.

Also I'm just having a second serious giggle about the pictures of the attempt to do a ring crown! Her feelings about that are very clear! He he he aww she's delightful. Love her!

 

[Lykame]

Chappy - that's a beautiful band! Also - I don't mean to thread hijack, but Lykame said something about the older Birmingham Assay mark having an upright anchor vs. the sideways anchor seen on your band. Might that be what I'm seeing inside this band? I asked on the main forum but didn't have much luck there.

Based on it being American and if it were made after 1961, then the Plat would mean at least 950 platinum. And rather than an assay office that would be a maker's mark who are guaranteeing that purity. I'm trying to find the maker's mark for you but it's difficult! I'll let you know if I discover anything.

 

[lovedogs]

Can't help at all with markings but omg your hamster is the cutest thing ever. The spinning trick video had me laughing out loud. Such a good girl!!!!