Great News for Consumers in the announcement concerning Sarine and GCAL

[Wink]

I was very pleased to hear from Angelo Palmieri today. He told me that Sarine is going to acquire a majority position in GCAL. There are a LOT of good things about this for consumers. Most importantly, GCAL issues a true certificate, which is a guarantee of the grading, while most other Labs issue a report and specifically do not accept legal liability for the grading. It has been my experience with GCAL to find them very strict in the color, clarity and cut grading. While this has hindered their market share in the trade, I believe in the longer run, it should create demand from consumers.

I am going to ask Angelo to come to this thread and explain the importance of Sarine buying a majority position and how that will help jewelers and consumers in knowing the real color and clarity grade of their diamonds, and even more importantly to me, the quality of the cut of the diamonds, as this is where the beauty comes from.

 

[DejaWiz]

Wow, now this is some great news!

 

[Kya]

Looking forward to learning more about this!

 

[GCAL-Angelo]

I was very pleased to hear from Angelo Palmieri today. He told me that Sarine is going to acquire a majority position in GCAL. There are a LOT of good things about this for consumers. Most importantly, GCAL issues a true certificate, which is a guarantee of the grading, while most other Labs issue a report and specifically do not accept legal liability for the grading. It has been my experience with GCAL to find them very strict in the color, clarity and cut grading. While this has hindered their market share in the trade, I believe in the longer run, it should create demand from consumers.

I am going to ask Angelo to come to this thread and explain the importance of Sarine buying a majority position and how that will help jewelers and consumers in knowing the real color and clarity grade of their diamonds, and even more importantly to me, the quality of the cut of the diamonds, as this is where the beauty comes from.

Thank you very much Wink - i was very happy to share the news with you and Andy, some of the first people to hear this news. In fact, it will be released to the trade tomorrow, so all of our pricescope friends are getting a sneak peak as well

As Wink mentioned, Sarine has agreed to purchase a majority stake in GCAL.
Don, Pam, and I will continue to own a stake in the lab and will continue to operate the lab, with no anticipated changes to day to day operations. Same team, same management, same location, same services, etc. If you like what you have with GCAL, you can keep it
You can see the release here https://sarine.listedcompany.com/newsroom/20230111_233829_U77_BMZ1YGHUT5EUP5I1.1.pdf

The exciting aspect of this acquisition is what it allows GCAL to do in the future, in terms of expansion, and bringing our services closer to the cutting centers, while maintaining the high grading standards that we have adhered to, through the use of AI. See excerpt below from the release

It is anticipated that following Sarine's acquisition, GCAL's principals will continue to run GCAL, and the lab will continue to offer its customers the same products and services they have come to rely upon. To guarantee its impeccable record of consistent quality work, GCAL has always operated out of a single location in New York. However, by implementing Sarine's unique AI derived cloud-based automated e-Grading, optionally along with Sarine's diamond traceability Journey report, GCAL will be able to develop its services globally, while concurrently significantly expanding its services to U.S. retailers and wholesalers, without compromising its renowned stringent levels of quality and consistency. Sarine and GCAL will exclusively cooperate on serving North American customers, as well as on offering the industry B2B reports for generic non-branded diamonds.

We anticipate many exciting aspects to this partnership....traceability capabilities being possible with all GCAL Certificates (lab grown or mined), more efficient supply chain with accurate and consistent AI pre-grades being done overseas, implementation of efficient, consistent, and accurate QC standards for black inclusions, opens, tints, milkiness, etc

We will share more news in the days to come - mostly, we are thankful for all of our GCAL customers for the support they have shown, even when it was easier to choose a different lab - when the news breaks tomorrow, we will be swamped with calls and emails, but i promise to be back over the next few days to answer as many questions as possible

if i can leave you with one thing as you think about machine and AI grading - whether GCAL Certs will be graded by humans, or technology, or both, we will continue to issue Guaranteed Grading Certificates (an industry exclusive)

Thank you all, and talk soon

Angelo Palmieri

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I am not so sure.
Sarine's cut grading and reliance on technology to assess the 4C's is not peer reviewed and relies on what seems to me to be some hodoo vodoo based on their buying out a Belgian company with a very poor cut quality grading system.
If that takes over from what GCAL have implemented recently then I would think it was a volume solution rather than a quality improvement.

 

[GCAL-Angelo]

I am not so sure.
Sarine's cut grading and reliance on technology to assess the 4C's is not peer reviewed and relies on what seems to me to be some hodoo vodoo based on their buying out a Belgian company with a very poor cut quality grading system.
If that takes over from what GCAL have implemented recently then I would think it was a volume solution rather than a quality improvement.

Garry - i think you know me well enough to know that we would not enter into this to sprinkle 'hodoo vodoo' on the market or implement grading that is not up to par. We have spent 22 years building our reputation - we are nowhere close to being done with that mission

Jumping to conclusions doesnt help anyone - it will only confuse readers of this thread

nothing in the release should make you think we are all of a sudden changing everything - in fact, it specifically states we are not

the 8X Cert remains the same tomorrow, as it was today - no substitution of light performance

maybe you and i should have a call tomorrow and discuss this, so that i can inform you and then you can post your thoughts based on that

let me kno

angelo

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Garry - i think you know me well enough to know that we would not enter into this to sprinkle 'hodoo vodoo' on the market or implement grading that is not up to par. We have spent 22 years building our reputation - we are nowhere close to being done with that mission

Jumping to conclusions doesnt help anyone - it will only confuse readers of this thread

nothing in the release should make you think we are all of a sudden changing everything - in fact, it specifically states we are not

the 8X Cert remains the same tomorrow, as it was today - no substitution of light performance

maybe you and i should have a call tomorrow and discuss this, so that i can inform you and then you can post your thoughts based on that

let me kno

angelo

Happy to discuss off line Angelo.
BTW what was the name of the Belgian company that Sarine bought about 10 years ago. They did something like Gemex but with rotating radial lighting.

 

[sledge]

@GCAL-Angelo would you be willing to host a Zoom type presentation to help further wrap our heads around the AI portion of grading, the e-grading process and the intricacies involved?

Also, are there any independent studies supporting the claim that Sarine AI is more accurate than traditional human based color & clarity grading? If so, can you share those links please.

 

[Kim N]

This is exciting news! I too would love to attend a webinar about this. Thanks for sharing, Wink!

 

[Wink]

I just want to remind our readers that Angelo is going to be swamped today and possibly tomorrow with calls from trade members and trade reporters. He will be coming back to this thread when he can.

 

[sledge]

I disagree with you, I believe that the union of this two companies is only going to bring out the best in them and make better solutions for jewelers and most importantly for the final customer.

My partner and I (Ricardo) have been working very closely with both @GCAL-Angelo and Sarine over the past year (2022). We have sent Super Ideal cut diamonds (Alpha diamonds) to each company to see the results they have given, and we have seen the pros and cons of each company.

Nothing makes us happier than knowing that these two excellent companies will be uniting forces!

Can you elaborate on the pros/cons you’ve seen and how you think this change will be beneficial to those experiences?

 

[sledge]

I just want to remind our readers that Angelo is going to be swamped today and possibly tomorrow with calls from trade members and trade reporters. He will be coming back to this thread when he can.

Understood @Wink. I would expect things to be as such. I do look forward to further interaction from @GCAL-Angelo and trust he can find time for our community sooner rather than later.

To start getting my head in the right space, I have started doing my own research and exploring both the GCAL and SARIN sites. I found an interesting video where Don Palmieri provides a GCAL lab tour.

Within those first 45 seconds, reference is made to the fact GCAL provides a certification and is responsible for their work. I appreciate the bold statement and acceptance of accountability and was curious to know more.

Continuing to watch the video, I learned GCAL uses a grading by committee approach to assign color and clarity grades; therefore, their confidence levels are high.

After the video I wanted to see more technical jargon about the specifics of their guarantee. I found the following page which lists their stance, their strong opinion on report vs certification and appears to list the disclaimer found on GIA and AGS lab reports. Also there was a link to the details of their guarantee but clicking simply lands you back at the same generic guarantee page — not sure if this was an error or them trying to have a sense of humor that this is all that exists.

Either way I am genuinely interested to know the extents of the guarantee and their accountability and I think other PS members would benefit from the same info.

My best guess is liability is limited to the cost of the grading report, which is a very small cost in the overall scheme should their grading be off for some reason. And if that does happen do they refund the consumer or original party/retailer they performed the grading services for initially? And what is the length of guarantee and any other special terms?

In a nutshell, what are the concrete consumer-facing advantages to other lab reports such as GIA or similar?

Gem Certification & Assurance Lab

www.gcalusa.com

 

[Kim N]

Understood @Wink. I would expect things to be as such. I do look forward to further interaction from @GCAL-Angelo and trust he can find time for our community sooner rather than later.

To start getting my head in the right space, I have started doing my own research and exploring both the GCAL and SARIN sites. I found an interesting video where Don Palmieri provides a GCAL lab tour.

Within those first 45 seconds, reference is made to the fact GCAL provides a certification and is responsible for their work. I appreciate the bold statement and acceptance of accountability and was curious to know more.

Continuing to watch the video, I learned GCAL uses a grading by committee approach to assign color and clarity grades; therefore, their confidence levels are high.

After the video I wanted to see more technical jargon about the specifics of their guarantee. I found the following page which lists their stance, their strong opinion on report vs certification and appears to list the disclaimer found on GIA and AGS lab reports. Also there was a link to the details of their guarantee but clicking simply lands you back at the same generic guarantee page — not sure if this was an error or them trying to have a sense of humor that this is all that exists.

Either way I am genuinely interested to know the extents of the guarantee and their accountability and I think other PS members would benefit from the same info.

My best guess is liability is limited to the cost of the grading report, which is a very small cost in the overall scheme should their grading be off for some reason. And if that does happen do they refund the consumer or original party/retailer they performed the grading services for initially? And what is the length of guarantee and any other special terms?

In a nutshell, what are the concrete consumer-facing advantages to other lab reports such as GIA or similar?

Gem Certification & Assurance Lab

www.gcalusa.com

I couldn't find detailed information on GCAL's current website, but this is what the verbiage was previously for the guarantee.

GCAL Zero Tolerance 4C's Consumer Guarantee

Gem Certification and Assurance Lab (GCAL) is a diamond research and identification laboratory that offers a zero tolerance guarantee on all of its grading certificates.

www.gemfacts.com

 

[Rick Top]

Can you elaborate on the pros/cons you’ve seen and how you think this change will be beneficial to those experiences?

Hello Sledge,

**edited by moderator to comply with trade policies**

Let me tell you my experience with GIA, GCAL and Sarine:

GIA

They are the most known diamond report in the world, BUT have lots of Flaws:

Small Letters (NOT A GUARANTEE)

If you read the small letters on the report, right under the GIA hologram they state: “This report is NOT a guarantee or valuation”.

So they are NOT trustworthy, you can not sue them if they make a mistake on the gradings and to me that’s more than enough to not grade my diamonds with them, I need to protect my customers and ensure they are getting the very best for their money and getting exactly what I told them the gradings are.


The 4 C’s are NOT enough.

They only describe the diamond in a very vague way. There are other characteristics than can ruin the Brilliance and therefore the Value of a diamond that GIA does not grade:

• Luster: If it’s Crystal clear or has a degree of milkiness.
• Color Tinge: Diamonds can also be Brown, Green, Pink etc. It doesn't matter if your diamond is a GIA D color if it has a brown tinge it will not shine as bright as one that has NO color Tinge. I can't believe GIA doesn't “notice” this characteristic!
• Triple Excellent: Their cut grading system is amazingly poor, in a scale of 1-100 their “excellent” cut has a range of 70-100, meaning a triple Ex could be either a 100% perfectly cut stone (Super Ideal) or a 70% cut stone (which is definitely not worth it). The problem here is that customers think a triple Ex is the best and most perfect cut which is absolute BS.
• Proportions: They let cutters put more weight on the pavilion and Crown and still call it “Excellent” so they can sell it for a higher price. (more weight higher price)

Now, my opinion about GCAL's and Sarine's fusion:


GCAL ADVANTAGES

They certify and guarantee each diamond.

I think the title says it all, 100% security or they will reimburse the money for their mistakes. NO other lab in the world does this.

Beyond “Triple Excellent”

As I guess you know they do the 8X Certification which is extremely strict, I already sent diamonds that are 99.9% perfect and they reject it as an 8X and showed me exactly why. If you looked at that stone with a H&A loupe you would swear that it’s absolutely perfect. But @GCAL-Angelo showed me that one of the facets was slightly out of the perfect proportions, he even showed me which one it was and how many degrees it was off by, and that was enough to reject it from being an 8X.

Also as an experiment I sent a GIA 3EX to GCAL and they graded it as Very Good Cut. Do I have to say more? If you want I can… I have studied the perfect Cut and Proportions for a while, I created my own perfect diamond which I call ALPHA Diamond. To be an ALPHA diamond it has to have 8X Grade and other characteristics that SARINE grades BUT with their fusion now GCAL will be able to grade with Sarine Machines.

Lots of other advantages

You can read them all on their website, or I can explain them to you in detail if you want.

GCAL Disadvantages

The only disadvantage they used to have is that they didn't grade Luster, Color Tinge, Color and location of the inclusions but with their fusion now GCAL is capable to CERTIFY that the diamond is Crystal Clear (No milkiness), white (No tinges) Flawless look (No black Inclusions on a VS1-VVS1) and of course what they already do, Perfect Cut grade.


SARINE ADVANTAGES

Artificial Intelligence Grades their diamonds.

Ok, so here is where @Garry H (Cut Nut) said “voodoo hoodoo” magic haha. NO it’s not magic it is Technology, welcome to the Future.

Let me explain what Artificial Intelligence means:
Artificial Intelligence (AI) is when machines can do tasks that usually need human intelligence, like understanding speech or making decisions. There are different ways to make AI, like using machine learning or neural networks. AI can be rule-based or self-learning. The goal is to make machines that can think and learn like humans.

This answer was generated with an Artificial Intelligence Chat called Openai.com I just asked in the chat what is ai and the ai explained it in a simple way.

OK SO, how does the SARINE AI Work?

Well they teach the machines to recognize all the grades. They teach the machine to recognize how a diamond from D to Z look like, and guess what, machines have something much better than Eyes, they have advanced technology that can measure exactly the amount of color the diamond has.

Sarine didn’t stop with Color, they taught the AI machine to grade Cut, Clarity and also all the other characteristics GIA doesn't grade like Luster (Milkiness), Color Tinge, Light Performance, etc.

IN CONCLUSION.

Artificial Intelligence is here to help us grade diamonds with absolute perfection like no human can because it was taught to do it with more than 200,000 diamonds (and growing) and it has advanced technology to see better than the human eyes.

In short, eGrading is the TERMINATOR.

Sarine disadvantages (not anymore)

They don't certify their stones, which means less guarantee and customer confidence when purchasing; and they can learn a lot from the cut grading strict parameters that GCAL already has.

 

[DejaWiz]

Welcome to PriceScope, Claudia Parrish and Rick Top!

Thank you for providing further information about GCAL and SARINE.

 

[Rockdiamond]

@Rick Top
This is a forum where issues are discussed critically. There’s inaccuracies in your post- for example let’s begin with the “Guarantee”
Here in America, anyone can sue anyone. If a person was that ill advised so as to initiate a lawsuit over a grading dispute with GIA, GCAL , IGI …. or any dealers, they are free to do so.
It would be an impossible case to win, if it was about grading. The fact is that diamond grading is subjective to an important degree.
Have AI grade a million stones- there’s going to be judgement calls that can go either way. You’re going to sue GIA because you think it’s VS2 but they graded it SI1?
The subjective nature of grading means that the use of the word “certify” is simply incorrect when it come to diamond grading.
We can definitely find aspects of GIA grading that can be improved.
And it’s possible that GCAL has a great product. But many of your criticisms of GIA are not accurate.

 

[sledge]

I couldn't find detailed information on GCAL's current website, but this is what the verbiage was previously for the guarantee.

GCAL Zero Tolerance 4C's Consumer Guarantee

Gem Certification and Assurance Lab (GCAL) is a diamond research and identification laboratory that offers a zero tolerance guarantee on all of its grading certificates.

www.gemfacts.com

Thank you for sharing.

That is more of the type of details I was expecting to find. It is possible they are reworking the language with the new controlling acquisition as SARIN will be absorbing potential liability issues from such wording.

Not saying or implying any of this is good or bad yet, but instead should be clearly defined so the consumer knows all the rules of the game to which they are subscribing for an industry leading advantage.

I might add that reading the old language, it is very favorable to GCAL and their discretion. I will save more detailed comments once current language is provided.

Anytime I think of guarantees this old movie clip flashes through my head with one of my favorite actors and funny people.

 

[sledge]

@Rick Top
Have AI grade a million stones- there’s going to be judgement calls that can go either way. You’re going to sue GIA because you think it’s VS2 but they graded it SI1?

We can definitely find aspects of GIA grading that can be improved.

No doubt GIA has issues. Seeing AGS go away is a loss for the consumer IMO.

What perplexed me is how GCAL goes from a single location because they want total control to separate themselves as superior graders to getting all willy nilly with AI grading.

I don’t know. Perhaps the AI technology is mind blowing. And maybe there are loads of independent studies available to back it up. This is why I suggested a webinar, so I could see the value they are saying exists.

What I do know is my insurance company’s AI totally sucks. I was in a minor accident a few months back that ultimately did about $5k of damage to my vehicle. They refused to send a human appraiser. Their AI consists of an app that helped me position my iPhone camera at the proper angle so they could assess the damage. Unlike the body shop where they did a detailed quote, the AI never cared about an underbody shot to ascertain damage not easily seen. Their super fast and smart AI said I had about 20% of the actual damage and took the liberty to mail me a check to my old out of state address despite the fact my address has been updated for nearly a year and I had requested electronic payment to the same account they withdraw my monthly payments.

The sad part….those jokers believe their AI is the worlds answer.

This isn’t to say all AI is bad. It’s not. But more proof is needed IMO.

 

[Wink]

What perplexed me is how GCAL goes from a single location because they want total control to separate themselves as superior graders to getting all willy nilly with AI grading.

I am going to jump in to say this is not the case. GCal will still be doing its grading the old fashioned way.

I will let Angelo come to explain the details of how they will being working with Sarine to improve the information the cutters will receive prior to the grading being completed by the team at GCAL.

 

[ame]

I am excited to see where this takes the industry!!!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Perhaps the AI technology is mind blowing.

It surely is! But there are a few currents of discussion here.
AI can write a thesis, it drives my car....the possibilities are endless- and terrifying ( that's another discussion)
When it comes to diamond grading, AI - or other forms of machines that grade diamonds have existed since my time at Harry Winston. Ronnie Winston, son of Harry, was developing machines to grade the color of diamonds in the late '70's.
It's widely believed GIA is using machines to grade diamonds...more accurately, I'm sure it's actually been established.
That does not negate the fact that diamond grading is subjective. I don't see how that aspect can ever change.
Will GCAL and Sarine produce a great system of grading? It's totally possible.
Yet that's truly no reason to throw GIA under the bus.

Furthermore, it seems to me that GCAL is really hurting its credibility by using the language they are.
"Certify" and "Guarantee" do not belong in a discussion of diamond grading.
Years ago, when we first started selling online- we used the term "GIA certified".
GIA's legal people alerted us that the term is not acceptable.
Take a cab ride in NYC, the odometer is "certified" by a public agency to assure that you go a mile if you're being charged for a mile. It's a physical measurement.
This is different than deciding that a given stone is SI1 or VS2. It's subjective.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Hello @Rick Top and @Claudia Parrish . Nice to have you join the pricescope community. You seem to be very cut-centric in your approach so you have many kindred spirits here!

Also, @sledge - good to have you back here engaging in the give and take! You've been missed.

I personally think the acquisition of GCAL by Sarine is a brilliant move on the part of Sarine, and it says A LOT about the esteem they have for what @GCAL-Angelo and his family have systematically and painstakingly built over decades.

In general, all the recent moves amongst the gem lab community signal a sea change in approach to grading, which is no doubt in part to the inadequacies and inconsistencies in grading that have been discussed here forever. I think it is also a recognition that e-commerce requires a more scientific and comprehensive approach to diamond grading than traditional methods.

While I admit I am suspicious of machine grading, GIA has been doing it to a limited extent for a while now. The technologies will only get better, and in the case of GCAL, there is no better partner in the world in this area than Sarine who have pioneered most of the sophisticated technologies that the diamond manufacturing world relies upon. It will be very interesting to watch their penetration into the world market as a result of this collaboration.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Most importantly, GCAL issues a true certificate, which is a guarantee of the grading, while most other Labs issue a report and specifically do not accept legal liability for the grading.

Personally, I will never be comfortable using the term "certified" when it comes to diamond grading.
If there's liability, what are the damages? OK- maybe someone bought a G color that turns out to test as an H color on a machine- so the customer could sue for the difference in price?
But how exactly does one go about "proving" or "guaranteeing" a diamond grade?
Would they send it to GIA?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Personally, I will never be comfortable using the term "certified" when it comes to diamond grading.
If there's liability, what are the damages? OK- maybe someone bought a G color that turns out to test as an H color on a machine- so the customer could sue for the difference in price?
But how exactly does one go about "proving" or "guaranteeing" a diamond grade?
Would they send it to GIA?

To me it's a difference without much of a distinction. To your point, understanding the value-add is about the fine print. Like any other warranty, the details about conditions, limitations, and requirements will determine what actual benefits the policy will potentially convey to the buyer.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I side with GIA on this one Bryan. I am clear when speaking with clients or potential clients we deal in stones with lab reports, as opposed to "certified" stones. I do believe semantics matters.
There are plenty of cases where products are "guaranteed" till the consumer reads the fine print. I remember one time buying travel insurance. Subsequently, I had to cancel the trip and guess what? The "guarantee" didn't cover the reason I needed to cancel. I should have read the fine print- sure. But still, I felt ripped off.
My point is that guaranteeing something that can't really be guaranteed leaves the consumer feeling ripped off.

To my point- if someone wants to challenge a grade, exactly how do they prove the grade?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hello @Rick Top and @Claudia Parrish .
While I admit I am suspicious of machine grading, GIA has been doing it to a limited extent for a while now. The technologies will only get better, and in the case of GCAL, there is no better partner in the world in this area than Sarine who have pioneered most of the sophisticated technologies that the diamond manufacturing world relies upon. It will be very interesting to watch their penetration into the world market as a result of this collaboration.

Bryan I know for a fact that at least 80% of GIA's grading is done with instruments and or AI. Humans may be used for oversight, but make no mistake, GIA have by far the largest data base to base AI techniques on.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

To my point- if someone wants to challenge a grade, exactly how do they prove the grade?

I challenged a recertification GIA color grade last year on a chipped +2ct D recut down to about 1.85ct. The initial grade came back E. It was explained to me that the color was ascertained by an instrument.
One would expect removing some material would result in a very slight color improvement.
Eventually GIA agreed to assign the original D grade on the basis that the stone sat on the boundary.
Thus I know color is graded by instruments up to 2ct.
And we all know about GIA's partnership with IBM and that at least all diamonds under 1ct are clarity graded with AI.

GIA and IBM Research Join Forces to Transform Diamond Grading

CARLSBAD, Calif. – July 27, 2020 – GIA and IBM Research have joined forces to develop an advanced artificial intelligence (AI) system designed to revolutionize diamond clarity grading.

www.gia.edu

I know that a decade ago GIA purchased a large quantity of Helium scanners (competitor of Sarine) to automate their cut and symmetry grading for round diamonds.

I do not have any confidence in the software developed by entrepreneur Davy Lapa after he was declared bankrupt.
Sergey Sivovlenko studied the ISee2 device at a Basel trade fair about 2006.
Davy began his sales pitch and after several minutes of Sergey interrogation and final death blows Davy was almost crying! There are other instruments that count pixels with moving lights from a monoscopic camera that work exceptionally well in a sales environment demonstration.

GCAL have followed a path that leads to reasonably reproduceable cut grading and now we have some great explanations of how and why that has removed some of a veil of smoke and mirrors.
I could understand why Sarine, who have continually snapped up leading technologies from innovative start ups, would be interested to take GCALs secret sources to the rest of the world.
Not sure what Sarine will bring to GCAL (other than money).

Dave Lapa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rockdiamond]

Garry’s post proves my point. There’s no such thing as “guaranteed grading “

 

[GCAL-Angelo]

Good afternoon all – my sincere apologies for the delay in responding – as you can imagine this has been a busy week. I am going to address all the points and questions in this reply, vs responding to each individual post, as there are some consistent throughlines in the posts.

First, I want to thank you all for being interested in this partnership, and providing comments, feedback, questions, etc. Debate and discussion are a great thing – from my perspective, it’s the only way to learn and grow, by understanding the different perspectives and perceptions

My only request as we have this discussion and debate, is to judge us by what we do, and what we have done, rather than just speculation.

Some people on this thread have been speculating and conjuring up the worst possible outcome, ‘the Armageddon scenario’, and stating with confidence that is the likely outcome. This is not based on facts or knowledge, and I don’t think serves anyone well.

When this partnership is fully integrated and implemented, I fully expect people to judge us, critique us, etc, but until you see what it is that we create, I think it is premature to judge IMHO.

As I stated previously, we have spent the last 22 years (17 years myself) building the reputation of GCAL, and I believe earning the respect of many, that we have made the right decisions, guided by consumer protection. And to those intimately knowledgeable about the business of diamond grading, know that grading accurately and to stringent standards often comes at the cost of earning more business.

Over the last 22 years, we have been asked no less than 500 times to open a lab in India. For those unaware, this is mostly about supply chain logistics. Every time a request came to open in India, Dubai, Israel, Belgium, Hong Kong, or in the Southern African countries, we had internal discussions about could we do it, while maintaining the high standards and consistency that our customers have come to expect, and demand from GCAL? And every time, we came to the conclusion that we couldn’t. And it wasn’t based on operational, budgetary, or resource issues…it was mainly because we watched our peers in the grading lab space do it, and then the consistency and accuracy, slip. I would think this is not dissimilar from the challenges that AGS faced with one US location. And while I do not have any knowledge of why AGS didn’t choose to open an overseas lab, I suspect that it was probably similar to ours.

We always knew that machine grading was part of the answer. Technology and machines are already an integral part of diamond cutting, diamond planning and processing, and how diamond cut is assessed. As has been pointed out, multiple labs are utilizing machine grading as part of their process today, with varying success. Grading by machine is the undisputed future. How it is rolled out, the standards that are applied, the testing and implementation of the technology directly correlate to the people behind it. We want to put our experience and integrity into the process, and we know that our vision/mission is shared by Sarine. We plan an incremental approach to implementation of this technology into our process. Everything will not change overnight.

We have invested in our customers, and they have invested in us. We have a duty to our customers to honor their selection of GCAL, by proving to them that they made a good choice in trusting GCAL. As we considered this partnership with Sarine, at the front of our mind was the question…does this benefit our customers and their customers, and the answer is, unequivocally, YES.

Being able to bring our services and high grading standards closer to the diamond production centers, undoubtedly, benefits the entire supply chain involved in GCAL Certification. And it benefits consumers by making more GCAL Certified stones available in the market.

Let me address a few of the other questions not covered above

We will have many webinars and presentations on this partnership, and I will be sure to post a link here when the first one is announced.

Some people have mentioned that a huge database/data-set is needed for the effective implementation of AI/machine grading, and we totally agree. In one year, more than 30 million diamonds have gone through the Sarine Galaxy systems and over 100 million diamonds through their advisor planning software. I assume many of you know about the Galaxy technology, but in the planning process, inclusions are mapped, and clarity grade projections are estimated, and considered for each potential polished diamond. When we talk about data collection, and a large database to work from, 30-100 million rough diamonds per year (and more resulting polished diamonds) is significant. And what an incredible feedback loop to be able to see the final polished outcome/grade and compare to the projected grade and make necessary tweaks and adjustments. And talk to any manufacturer using these products…they deliver value, by forecasting with high degrees of accuracy, what the final polished stone will come out as.

The GCAL Guarantee is fundamental to our process, and to the culture of our company. It means that we are accountable for and stand behind our work product. Our guarantee states that we will pay the difference (in retail dollars) of the grade assigned vs the actual grade, so our liability is not limited to the cost of the certificate.

I think the difference between GCAL, and other labs is our sense of responsibility to the consumer. As experts, consumers are relying on us to make financial decisions. We have a commitment to provide accurate information to them. We stand behind our work and if a consumer feels that they have been financially hurt by our grading, there is a process in place for them to be made whole. We have insurance for this and have set aside reserves in the event of a mistake.

What do other labs offer? They make statements of conditions and disclaimers. While some may not think our guarantee is perfect, it is certainly better than not taking any responsibility for our work.

As always, we deeply appreciate the continued support from the Pricescope community

-Angelo Palmieri

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Good afternoon all – my sincere apologies for the delay in responding – as you can imagine this has been a busy week. I am going to address all the points and questions in this reply, vs responding to each individual post, as there are some consistent throughlines in the posts.

First, I want to thank you all for being interested in this partnership, and providing comments, feedback, questions, etc. Debate and discussion are a great thing – from my perspective, it’s the only way to learn and grow, by understanding the different perspectives and perceptions

My only request as we have this discussion and debate, is to judge us by what we do, and what we have done, rather than just speculation.

Some people on this thread have been speculating and conjuring up the worst possible outcome, ‘the Armageddon scenario’, and stating with confidence that is the likely outcome. This is not based on facts or knowledge, and I don’t think serves anyone well.

When this partnership is fully integrated and implemented, I fully expect people to judge us, critique us, etc, but until you see what it is that we create, I think it is premature to judge IMHO.

As I stated previously, we have spent the last 22 years (17 years myself) building the reputation of GCAL, and I believe earning the respect of many, that we have made the right decisions, guided by consumer protection. And to those intimately knowledgeable about the business of diamond grading, know that grading accurately and to stringent standards often comes at the cost of earning more business.

Over the last 22 years, we have been asked no less than 500 times to open a lab in India. For those unaware, this is mostly about supply chain logistics. Every time a request came to open in India, Dubai, Israel, Belgium, Hong Kong, or in the Southern African countries, we had internal discussions about could we do it, while maintaining the high standards and consistency that our customers have come to expect, and demand from GCAL? And every time, we came to the conclusion that we couldn’t. And it wasn’t based on operational, budgetary, or resource issues…it was mainly because we watched our peers in the grading lab space do it, and then the consistency and accuracy, slip. I would think this is not dissimilar from the challenges that AGS faced with one US location. And while I do not have any knowledge of why AGS didn’t choose to open an overseas lab, I suspect that it was probably similar to ours.

We always knew that machine grading was part of the answer. Technology and machines are already an integral part of diamond cutting, diamond planning and processing, and how diamond cut is assessed. As has been pointed out, multiple labs are utilizing machine grading as part of their process today, with varying success. Grading by machine is the undisputed future. How it is rolled out, the standards that are applied, the testing and implementation of the technology directly correlate to the people behind it. We want to put our experience and integrity into the process, and we know that our vision/mission is shared by Sarine. We plan an incremental approach to implementation of this technology into our process. Everything will not change overnight.

We have invested in our customers, and they have invested in us. We have a duty to our customers to honor their selection of GCAL, by proving to them that they made a good choice in trusting GCAL. As we considered this partnership with Sarine, at the front of our mind was the question…does this benefit our customers and their customers, and the answer is, unequivocally, YES.

Being able to bring our services and high grading standards closer to the diamond production centers, undoubtedly, benefits the entire supply chain involved in GCAL Certification. And it benefits consumers by making more GCAL Certified stones available in the market.

Let me address a few of the other questions not covered above

We will have many webinars and presentations on this partnership, and I will be sure to post a link here when the first one is announced.

Some people have mentioned that a huge database/data-set is needed for the effective implementation of AI/machine grading, and we totally agree. In one year, more than 30 million diamonds have gone through the Sarine Galaxy systems and over 100 million diamonds through their advisor planning software. I assume many of you know about the Galaxy technology, but in the planning process, inclusions are mapped, and clarity grade projections are estimated, and considered for each potential polished diamond. When we talk about data collection, and a large database to work from, 30-100 million rough diamonds per year (and more resulting polished diamonds) is significant. And what an incredible feedback loop to be able to see the final polished outcome/grade and compare to the projected grade and make necessary tweaks and adjustments. And talk to any manufacturer using these products…they deliver value, by forecasting with high degrees of accuracy, what the final polished stone will come out as.

The GCAL Guarantee is fundamental to our process, and to the culture of our company. It means that we are accountable for and stand behind our work product. Our guarantee states that we will pay the difference (in retail dollars) of the grade assigned vs the actual grade, so our liability is not limited to the cost of the certificate.

I think the difference between GCAL, and other labs is our sense of responsibility to the consumer. As experts, consumers are relying on us to make financial decisions. We have a commitment to provide accurate information to them. We stand behind our work and if a consumer feels that they have been financially hurt by our grading, there is a process in place for them to be made whole. We have insurance for this and have set aside reserves in the event of a mistake.

What do other labs offer? They make statements of conditions and disclaimers. While some may not think our guarantee is perfect, it is certainly better than not taking any responsibility for our work.

As always, we deeply appreciate the continued support from the Pricescope community

-Angelo Palmieri

I have no doubt about your side of the new team Angelo.
So please don't think I do.
I have had a lot to do with Sarine.
I know for example that Sarine bought Gelateria (sp?) and rolled it into their system, but that Galaxy is not as accurate at plotting inclusions as the first company in that space, who Sarine continually launch IP law suits against.
The fact that they are huge and because they have the money to do so creates a David and Goliath scenario and I caution you to consider that.